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A WoD Discussion thread

Skaffolding said:
It does say Lucifer's the first created by God, did Jehovah originate in some other way?
Click to expand...
In the scan? They call Jehovah the first born in that scan, they call Lucifer by his name, I don't remember if they call Lucifer the first born of the Angels in the books but I know he's called the strongest.

And Jehovah appeared the same way all other ELOHIM did, by The One Giver, we just don't know how she did it.
 
Sorry, I meant the wiki. Also what exactly is the difference between angels and ELOHIM ? And what about Demons and Fallen? Are they just different words, different levels or what? Am I just using info on the new WoD in a thread about OG WoD or what?
 
I mean anyone who's stood on a LEGO has momentarily entered a state of mind in which they would destroy all of conceivable reality were they capable of it.
 
Skaffolding said:
Sorry, I meant the wiki. Also what exactly is the difference between angels and ELOHIM ? And what about Demons and Fallen? Are they just different words, different levels or what? Am I just using info on the new WoD in a thread about OG WoD or what?
Click to expand...
Ah, on the wiki, it's maybe a misinterpretation.

As for the difference between Angels and ELOHIM, they're basically the ELOHIM of the ELOHIM, imagine the One Giver like a CEO and the ELOHIM like managers and the Angels the Employees.

Demon and Fallen are synonymous, they mean the same thing.

NWoD and OWoD do cross over, but many of the parts are completely self contained, like Demon: The Descent.
 
The Unknown Warrior1 said:
Does WoD have any non biblical 1-A's?
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Yeah, there's Ein Soph, there's Astarte, Baal, Ra and so on shown in the page above,

In "Gods and Monsters" Mage 20th anniversary book which is the most recent Mage book, they actually go over many different Gods.

The Voodoo Major God is tied to all reality and if he ever dies all creation including some other Gods will die too, so they have to keep him alive.
 
The Unknown Warrior1 said:
Interesting.
Out of curiosity, how powerful is Satan in this verse?
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It's never really said as he's trapped in Hell, but as an Adversary he should be equal to the ELOHIM and be a threat to them, so likely 1-A, but could literally be anywhere from 11-C to 1-A.
 
So where do the Elohim sit in the houses? Like the House of dawn for example. Are they members, do they operate entirely separately, leaders?
 
Also if Lucifer was only an Angel, how was he able to stir up so much entropy and violence in The Fall? Are Elohim not entirely loyal to the one giver or was there some other reason they didn't just jump him?
 
Skaffolding said:
So where do the Elohim sit in the houses? Like the House of dawn for example. Are they members, do they operate entirely separately, leaders?
Click to expand...
The Houses are orders of Angels, the ELOHIM sit outside that order.
 
Skaffolding said:
Also if Lucifer was only an Angel, how was he able to stir up so much entropy and violence in The Fall? Are Elohim not entirely loyal to the one giver or was there some other reason they didn't just jump him?
Click to expand...
The reason why there was so money who turned was due to the big divide between humans.

As the ELOHIM and Angels love humans, it was told by either Jehovah or YHVH that they couldn't speak to the humans.

This was so heart breaking to them and after seeing how the humans were destroying themselves they chose to act to try and save them which caused the War in True Heaven.
 
Alright, I think I've got it. So were Adam and Eve kind of the first Mages? I read Lucifer offering them knowledge, was that an awakening?


Also what about Michael? He's described on the wiki as an Elohim too, is that also not the case?
 
The Unknown Warrior1 said:
Dang Uld, humans have that much influence (if indirect) in this verse?
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Yeah, in the same way a child does with loving parents who think they know best.

Also, WoD is based around the Human condition, all of the themes from VtM to MtA are all based on different conditions of the humans.

The only exception is Demon: the Fallen, but that is based around you possessing humans, so it can be seen as a human condition.
 
Skaffolding said:
Alright, I think I've got it. So were Adam and Eve kind of the first Mages? I read Lucifer offering them knowledge, was that an awakening?
Also what about Michael? He's described on the wiki as an Elohim too, is that also not the case?
Click to expand...
Adam and Eve weren't the First Mages, Lilith was. Adam and Eve were just the first Man and Woman, Lilith is something else entirely. (The Lilith part is a joke, she is just a human).

As for the knowledge part, no, that was in reference to the Tree of Knowledge, and that wasn't Lucifer, that was Lilith who gave Eve the fruit.

As for Michael, he's definitely an Angel, out side of Demon the Fallen I only remember him being name dropped once and that was in the Book of Caine and that specifically called him an Angel.
 
Right, see I'm kind of confused about why the wiki seems to use Elohim and Angel interchangeably. Also could Archangel have actually meant Alohim in this context? Given that it usually refers to a higher form of Angel, which seems to describe Elohim from what you've told me.

Thanks a ton for all the help, I hope I'm not being too irritating.
 
It could be the contributors on the wiki have only reach the old stuff from 1996, naturally things have changed 25 years on.

And no, Archangel is listed very low on the Celestial hierarchy, as it follows the same idea as the Biblical celestial hierarchy where Archangels are the second weakest celestial being.

And no, it's not irritating at all, I enjoy answering questions about the verse, it's nice to know that people are interested in the verse.
 
The Unknown Warrior1 said:
Officially, how many 1-A's are in this verse or have 1-A related hax to your knowledge
Click to expand...
I'm no expert, but I believe a fairly accurate estimate would be "everyone and their grandmother".
 
Skaffolding said:
The Unknown Warrior1 said:
Officially, how many 1-A's are in this verse or have 1-A related hax to your knowledge
Click to expand...
I'm no expert, but I believe a fairly accurate estimate would be "everyone and their grandmother".
Click to expand...
Kek, nah, not that many, it just so happened that the ones I started off with (Demon and Mage) had 1-A hax.
 
I'm used to Vtm, but iirc all Mages have access to a sphere which can turn Vamps into rubber ducks since it manipulates inanimate matter, which dead things constitute.

Plus Demons basically being OPballs, iirc they have something called Faith which could do something so completely ridiculous that it made me take one glance at their statline and silently promise myself never to allow my character to fight them.
 
Yeah, Mages have access to the Sphere "Matter" which allows them to manipulate Matter on a Quantum Level, being able to manipulate quantum frequencies and quantum foam.

And Demons use Torment for their abiliities, as their abilities change with their torment and become more evil or good depending on how much Torment you have, Faith if I remember correctly is the Demon's mana.

But Faith is used by many beings, such as Huntere, Werewolves and even other Mages.
 
But Demons start with about ten right? Not sure if I'm right but that's substantially more than Hunters at least, not sure about Werewolves and Mages though.
 
Torment? Yeah.

Faith, I believe they can start out with a varied amount.

As for Hunters and Mages, it functions like another sphere.
 
Spawniscoo. said:
Ohhh so there one in the same or equals
Click to expand...
Yeah, they're either equals or Jehovah is YHVH but "corrupted" with some aspect of him changed, but we don't ever get any accounts or YHVH ever.
 
Spawniscoo. said:
What exactly are the shadow Gods and Gaia and where do they scale in setting
Click to expand...
Gaia is a 9th rank Shadow God, rank 6 are Archetypal beings, so she'd be 1-A, apparently no Archmage has ever come back alive to speak about her, so she's very powerful.
 
Gaia is a 9th rank Shadow God, rank 6 are Archetypal beings, so she'd be 1-A, apparently no Archmage has ever come back alive to speak about her, so she's very powerful.

Or seductive.
 
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