A Demonic Grudge ( Anos Voldigoad vs Lefile Garkis. 1:7:0)

[Ned_the_outer_god]

Shrine Maiden FRA, like seriously, not sure what Anos can do here

 

[imZer0Null]

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This kinda makes sense, but only because so far all that it needed to do was destoy them on all levels.
It wasn't ever stated that it passively attempts to destroy them on all levels, but it was stated that it passively tries to destroy Anos' enemies.

Rn the only wincon I see for Anos is Venuzdonoa passively destroying everything in an attempt to destoy her.

If you say that Venuzdonoa's range gets nullified and that it won't try to passively destoy her by any means, then I don't see any wincon for Anos.

This dillema about who strikes first seems like a forced "wincon" for Anos so that it won't be a stomp.

 

[PhantomØ4]

It’s not a forced win on. It’s a result of a disagreement on how the 2-B range works. You’re simply just saying it doesn’t have 2-B energy and only the principle does, despite being a vessel for controlling his infinite power.

Such argument is the equivalent of saying you’re forcing a stomp against Anos when you see he can’t win. A bit rude.

Anyways, grace period.

 

[imZer0Null]

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Yeah that makes no sense...

Please explain Anos' "wincon" to me then.

 

[PhantomØ4]

The Wincon is reliant on that you first agree that Veluzdonoa has 2-B Power within it, if not it’s not gonna make sense to you. If you agree then it depends on who slices who first.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Does Anos ever start with Venuz? Especially against opponents he knows jack shit about?

 

[PhantomØ4]

4Km starting range should give him enough time to realize that none of his hax other work on Lefille so it’s likely that he’ll have it out at least.

 

[imZer0Null]

The Wincon is reliant on that you first agree that Veluzdonoa has 2-B Power within it, if not it’s not gonna make sense to you. If you agree then it depends on who slices who first.

So correct me if I'm wrong, but she has to physically go break Anos' barriers and then her passives will incap him?

You're also saying Venuzdonoa won't attempt to passively destoy her, and so Anos would first have to summon Venuzdonoa and then slash her with it before she breaks his barriers?

So you're basically putting speed against passives and calling it a wincon?

Anyways, I don't think he resists any of her passives, but what exactly are her passives?

 

[PhantomØ4]

Oh, venuzdonoa definitely will try but it will fail with its principle or if it releases supernatural energy. The sword doesn’t
just passively destroy the universe just because it would kill the enemy, that never happened .

Well he doesn’t resist paralysis and the only thinks he can do while paralyzed don’t work because of power null, thus incapacitating him.
You’re putting it worse than it is, the passives are blocked by the barriers until she shatters them, it’s the same thing as if she had to hit him and he had to hit her and it’s over it’s just that she is a better swordsman than him.

 

[imZer0Null]

Honestly, you're still putting plain speed against passives, which doesn't seem like a wincon for Anos to me.

Anyways, it seems her paralysis would only paralyse his body, so he could just create a duplicate body from his source or even just resurrect in a new body.

His Reactive Evolution might not be strong enough to give him resistance to her powernull, but it should at least be able to give him resistance to the paralysis.

Anos can keep up with Lay, someone who's considered a natural genius when it comes to sword fighting, and also with Shin, someone superior to Lay who's also considered a master swordsman.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Speaking of the barrier, this Lefille is High 7-A, she really doesn't have to do much to get pass it, just will it to happen, since swordsman of her caliber can cut things with will power alone.

Swordsman in maou can cut things via willpower, sense those will power cuts before they happen, predict how a battle will go, see through invisibility and illusions.

Btw anyone knows what happened to willpower manipulation? Was gonna add it to maou swordsman, but it doesn't exist anymore.

 

[Zencha9]

Willpower is now empathic manip

 

[imZer0Null]

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If she just has to will it to break his barriers, then Anos definitely doesn't have any wincons.

 

[PhantomØ4]

Speaking of the barrier, this Lefille is High 7-A, she really doesn't have to do much to get pass it, just will it to happen, since swordsman of her caliber can cut things with will power alone.

Swordsman in maou can cut things via willpower, sense those will power cuts before they happen, predict how a battle will go, see through invisibility and illusions.

Btw anyone knows what happened to willpower manipulation? Was gonna add it to maou swordsman, but it doesn't exist anymore.

Lefille has never employed it like it’s implied here. Just cutting someone up with their aura. The same paragraph or so mentions that their willpower is normally honed into their blade so that it cuts through the opponent without difficulties.

In Hatsumi’s and Itsuki’s fight their sword styles specifically employ their willpower’s as strikes (Hatsumi’s illusion that actually does damage for example if you recall.)

 

[PhantomØ4]

Honestly, you're still putting plain speed against passives, which doesn't seem like a wincon for Anos to me.

Anyways, it seems her paralysis would only paralyse his body, so he could just create a duplicate body from his source or even just resurrect in a new body.

His Reactive Evolution might not be strong enough to give him resistance to her powernull, but it should at least be able to give him resistance to the paralysis.

Anos can keep up with Lay, someone who's considered a natural genius when it comes to sword fighting, and also with Shin, someone superior to Lay who's also considered a master swordsman.

Statements are good indeed, but showings are superior. Isekai Mahou swordsman are just better in that sense. But if you actually have an argument for Anos being above Lefille in sword skill besides because “genius” is used then sure how ahead.

Resurrect? He hasn’t died.

I’ve been trying to remember, what’s Anos’ best feat of mind manipulation resistance?

 

[imZer0Null]

Statements are good indeed, but showings are superior. Isekai Mahou swordsman are just better in that sense. But if you actually have an argument for Anos being above Lefille in sword skill besides because “genius” is used then sure how ahead.

Resurrect? He hasn’t died.

I’ve been trying to remember, what’s Anos’ best feat of mind manipulation resistance?

Never said his sword skill is above hers. You said she's a better swordsman, and I just provided evidence that he isn't completely inferior.

Ingal resurrects the person by erasing the old body and creating a new one. He doesn't necessarily have to die to use it.

He's resisted the Bondage God Wesnera's chains. They completely suppress the target's body, magic power, 5 senses and thoughts.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

When did Ingal erase the user's body?

 

[PhantomØ4]

That’s not exactly the standard way of measuring potency though. I mean numbers. What’s the best mind hax in numbers he’s resisted in this key?

 

[Cloozuma]

How about the High-Godly Regen?

 

[PhantomØ4]

She isn’t killing Anos, she would incapacitate him while keeping him alive.

 

[imZer0Null]

When did Ingal erase the user's body?

It's shown in the anime, and I also think in the manga (Not completely sure about the manga tho) that when Anos uses either Ingal or Azheb the original body disappears and a new one is created. Using the word erase might've been the wrong word, but the old body clearly disappears.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

It's shown in the anime, and I also think in the manga (Not completely sure about the manga tho) that when Anos uses either Ingal or Azheb the original body disappears and a new one is created. Using the word erase might've been the wrong word, but the old body clearly disappears.

It was Ivis who erased the body. What Anos did was just resurrect

 

[imZer0Null]

That’s not exactly the standard way of measuring potency though. I mean numbers. What’s the best mind hax in numbers he’s resisted in this key?

Well, it's a God's divine order. At the very least the potency should be higher than Sasha's Eyes of Destruction from Volume 1 which Anos resisted.

 

[imZer0Null]

It was Ivis who erased the body. What Anos did was just resurrect

I'm talking about when he resurrects Zepes and Emilia.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

There is no mention of Zepes' body being erased though, and Azheb is quite different from Ingal in the resurrection aspect.

 

[PhantomØ4]

Then Lefille overpowers his mind hax resistance a she can affect an entire battalion of soldiers which is more than scaling above Sasha’s.

 

[imZer0Null]

There is no mention of Zepes' body being erased though, and Azheb is quite different from Ingal in the resurrection aspect.

Fair enough. It might just be a visual thing.

Both Ingal and Azheb resurrects the person tho...

"Demon Training <Azheb>
Enhanced root magic that can instantly reincarnate a person in a totally different physical form. <Azheb> also allows the source to retain the person's previous incarnation's personality and memories."

 

[Cloozuma]

It's shown in the anime, and I also think in the manga (Not completely sure about the manga tho) that when Anos uses either Ingal or Azheb the original body disappears and a new one is created. Using the word erase might've been the wrong word, but the old body clearly disappears.

Wasn't Emilia the one having a new body after being resurrected by Ingal or I'm mistaken?

 

[imZer0Null]

Then Lefille overpowers his mind hax resistance a she can affect an entire battalion of soldiers which is more than scaling above Sasha’s.

I don't think they specify the chain's potency so I can't really argue with that.

I don't agree with how the wiki treats mind hax potency anyways.

 

[imZer0Null]

Btw, please remove my vote from inconclusive.

I don't think Anos actually has a wincon here.

 

[Cloozuma]

Btw, please remove my vote from inconclusive.

I don't think Anos actually has a wincon here.

Anos would only be incapped tho, he has regen, but idk if this is a wincon so...

 

[imZer0Null]

Wasn't Emilia the one having a new body after being resurrected by Ingal or I'm mistaken?

Yeah. She was resurrected with Azheb. In the anime you can clearly see her body disappear after Anos uses Azheb, but I realize it could just be a visual thing exclusive to the anime.

 

[imZer0Null]

Anos would only be incapped tho, he has regen, but idk if this is a wincon so...

Incap means he can't fight.

His Reactive Evolution could overcome the simple stuff like Paralysis, but the regen doesn't really help.
If he can't create a duplicate body or resurrect himself into a new one, then he'll stay incapped.

I don't see a wincon for Anos since it's literally plain speed vs passives.

 

[PhantomØ4]

Passives which can’t affect him until she breaks his barriers.

His reactive evolution is for stuff that doesn’t work twice in him. She just mind haxes him which doesn’t allow him to use abilities so he’s incapped.

 

[imZer0Null]

She only needs to break his barrier, something that would apparently be very simple and could possibly be done through will power, for her passives to affect him.

Anos needs to first realise his abilities are getting nullified, then summon Venuzdonoa, that is if he even can since summoning Venuzdonoa would be something "mystical", and then try to slash her with it.

Feels like a forced "wincon" so that the match doesn't seem like a stomp.

 

[Naito-desu]

I mean from what I can tell, there's still a chance of it occurring, so this is more of a decisive/low-diff win than a full-on stomp

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Anos have skill with the sword and this is basically a fight of skill to see who hit first, so I honestly think isn't a stomp.

 

[PhantomØ4]

She only needs to break his barrier, something that would apparently be very simple and could possibly be done through will power, for her passives to affect him.

Anos needs to first realise his abilities are getting nullified, then summon Venuzdonoa, that is if he even can since summoning Venuzdonoa would be something "mystical", and then try to slash her with it.

Feels like a forced "wincon" so that the match doesn't seem like a stomp.

I already explained how Celestial Pegasus had misunderstood the usage of the willpower cut ability. Or well at least it’s not how it works.

He can summon Venuzdonoa because summoning doesn’t interact with her.

I’ll remove you then anyways.

 

[InfiniteCosmology]

Anos can use Venuzdonoa without summoning it also, but the effect becomes weaker.

Oh, venuzdonoa definitely will try but it will fail with its principle or if it releases supernatural energy. The sword doesn’t
just passively destroy the universe just because it would kill the enemy, that never happened .

Well he doesn’t resist paralysis and the only thinks he can do while paralyzed don’t work because of power null, thus incapacitating him.
You’re putting it worse than it is, the passives are blocked by the barriers until she shatters them, it’s the same thing as if she had to hit him and he had to hit her and it’s over it’s just that she is a better swordsman than him.

 

[PhantomØ4]

That Venuzdonoa is merely usage is merley supernatural energy/principle. It gets nulled.