9-B Tournament - Two Worlds Collide Match 2: Tsukasa Shishio vs Finn Bálor

[DrGreyman]

Tsukasa FRA

can you give a reason out of the arguments above? i did the debating and im not convinced

 

[DrGreyman]

Grey really went from saying "Finn FRA" to "Tsukasa FRA" for no reason lmao.

because adem said tsukasa and i wanted this match to end within the decade

 

[CorbinMLG]

I would rather vote Tsukasa..

 

[DrGreyman]

if we all band together, we can get 2 votes off grace, which will it be?

 

[CorbinMLG]

Also, why does Finn have Superhuman stamina? His stamina feats don't seem Superhuman.

 

[Pikaman]

I would rather vote Tsukasa..

For what reasons? (I know this has dragged out but I still feel obligated to debate people voting for the other character)

 

[Pikaman]

Also, why does Finn have Superhuman stamina? His stamina feats don't seem Superhuman.

It was approved in a CRT a while ago to give most WWE Superstars Superhuman stamina

 

[CorbinMLG]

It was approved in a CRT a while ago to give most WWE Superstars Superhuman stamina

Why?

 

[DrGreyman]

i would be fine with this going on for longer if actual debating happens!

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Also, why does Finn have Superhuman stamina? His stamina feats don't seem Superhuman.

Having 20-60 minute matchups, a portion of them being No DQ, HIAC, TLC, and many more matchups where wrestlers get hit with steel chairs and steel steps.

They also get sent through tables and steel ladders, as well as getting hit with constant kendo stick attacks.

Wrestlers also get sent through barbed wire, which does hella piercing damage, and they also suffer from severe amounts of blood loss.

All of this, but they can still keep fighting for a lengthy amount of time.

In fact, the longest wrestling matchup was 80 something minutes iirc.

 

[CorbinMLG]

Having 20-60 minute matchups, a portion of them being No DQ, HIAC, TLC, and many more matchups where wrestlers get hit with steel chairs and steel steps.

They also get sent through tables and steel ladders, as well as getting hit with constant kendo stick attacks.

Wrestlers also get sent through barbed wire, which does hella piercing damage, and they also suffer from severe amounts of blood loss.

All of this, but they can still keep fighting for a lengthy amount of time.

In fact, the longest wrestling matchup was 80 something minutes iirc.

These are Peak Human stamina feats though, and on the Peak Human Phsyical Characteristics page you can find more impressive stamina feats.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

These are Peak Human stamina feats though, and on the Peak Human Phsyical Characteristics page you can find more impressive stamina feats.

I also forgot to say that there have been many instances where wrestlers fight through serious injuries (broken ribs, concussions, etc.) and still come out the winner.

Look at this thread for further confirmation.

 

[CorbinMLG]

I also forgot to say that there have been many instances where wrestlers fight through serious injuries (broken ribs, concussions, etc.) and still come out the winner.

That's also nothing more than Peak Human...

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Anyways, staff have already approved of Superhuman stamina, and it hasn't been questioned since, so there's really no point in arguing it.

 

[CorbinMLG]

Anyways, staff have already approved of Superhuman stamina, and it hasn't been questioned since, so there's really no point in arguing it.

I guess I will have to create a CRT about that later..

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I guess I will have to create a CRT about that later..

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

can you give a reason out of the arguments above? i did the debating and im not convinced

Both seem roughly equal in skill but Tsukasa has the AP, LS, Mobility and Stamina advantages
Plus he has a sword

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Both seem roughly equal in skill but Tsukasa has the AP, LS, Mobility and Stamina advantages
Plus he has a sword

AP is negligible, plus it gets nulled via Finn's finisher being far higher than his normal AP.

LS is true, but Finn has fought people with Class 25 many times. He's even restrained people with Class 25 (many wrestlers have done that).

Mobility is debatable I guess (not too sure about this).

Stamina is true.

The sword argument has been debunked numerous times.

 

[CorbinMLG]

Would Tsukasa's height and weight be a problem if Finn wanted to do the 1916, or does that not matter too much?

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Would Tsukasa's height and weight be a problem if Finn wanted to do the 1916, or does that not matter too much?

Doesn't matter, as Finn can easily lift Tsukasa's weight.

If they were to get in a grappling matchup, Tsukasa would win.

 

[Pikaman]

Would Tsukasa's height and weight be a problem if Finn wanted to do the 1916, or does that not matter too much?

Finn’s whole thing is fighting people much bigger than him so naturally he is able to do his finishers to people under that criteria yes

 

[DrGreyman]

Im not letting this thread die again!
have we come to a consensus?

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Im not letting this thread die again!
have we come to a consensus?

Finn for the Winn FRA

 

[DrGreyman]

Finn for the Winn FRA

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

AP is negligible, plus it gets nulled via Finn's finisher being far higher than his normal AP.

Ehh. Tsukasa's physical AP is more than x2 Finn's AP and he only needs one good hit with the sword to incapacitate Finn

Mobility is debatable I guess (not too sure about this).

Tsukasa can easily leap several meters in the air and is superior to people who can jump on their opponents' blades mid-fight

The sword argument has been debunked numerous times.

was it really tho?

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Ehh. Tsukasa's physical AP is more than x2 Finn's AP and he only needs one good hit with the sword to incapacitate Finn

The difference is ~1.6x. That sword is dangerous, but it's already been said that Finn can easily disarm Tsukasa.

Tsukasa can easily leap several meters in the air and is superior to people who can jump on their opponents' blades mid-fight

Fair.

was it really tho?

Yes. Multiple times in multiple threads.

 

[Pikaman]

Ok looks like I’m gonna have to argue for my boy soon, will see if I have the energy to tonight after making the next batch of matches

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

The difference is ~1.6x. That sword is dangerous, but it's already been said that Finn can easily disarm Tsukasa.

Wouldn't Finn need to the LS advantage to disarm Tsukasa?

Yes. Multiple times in multiple threads.

A sword is still an advantage, it's not like Tsukasa vs Finn is the same as Tsukasa (Without sword) vs Finn

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Just saying even if WWE take two consecutive L's, Pika and I are still Tag Team Champs, and I'm still a World Champ, so don't get too cocky.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Wouldn't Finn need to the LS advantage to disarm Tsukasa?

Nope. He just needs to hit Tsukasa hard enough and he'll drop the sword. I can show you an example if you want.

A sword is still an advantage, it's not like Tsukasa vs Finn is the same as Tsukasa (Without sword) vs Finn

Obviously it's an advantage, but it's an advantage that can still be countered.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Nope. He just needs to hit Tsukasa hard enough and he'll drop the sword. I can show you an example if you want.

Not sure if that'll work since Tsukasa is physically stronger and was unfazed after having his lungs critically wounded

Obviously it's an advantage, but it's an advantage that can still be countered.

Finn's gonna need a hefty skill advantage to do that tho

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Not sure if that's work since Tsukasa is physically stronger and was unfazed after having his lungs critically wounded

AP is negligible (it's also nulled), but the second half of that comment is valid.

Finn's gonna need a hefty skill advantage to do that tho

Not really. Jericho didn't have a hefty skill advantage over Tsukasa, yet he still won.

 

[DrGreyman]

Not really. Jericho didn't have a hefty skill advantage over Tsukasa, yet he still won.

because jericho outclassed tsukasa in LS and AP, finn needs to out skill here

 

[RandomGuy2345]

because jericho outclassed tsukasa in LS and AP, finn needs to out skill here

1. Jericho at the time, was 299.77 KJ compared to Tsukasa's 483.7 KJ, and still won. Finn is also 299.77 KJ. Jericho is currently 492 KJ, so he definitely beats Tsukasa now.
2. Jericho's LS was and still is "At least Peak Human, likely Class 5." It's the same as Finn's, yet Jericho still won.

Add on the fact that Jericho outskilled Tsukasa (though it wasn't a hefty advantage)

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Jericho holds a solid skill edge over Balor

 

[CorbinMLG]

Even if Finn can eventually disarm Tsukasa, Tsukasa will probably be able to use his sword to damage Finn before he could do that.

 

[Pikaman]

Both seem roughly equal in skill but Tsukasa has the AP, LS, Mobility and Stamina advantages
Plus he has a sword

I mean AP isn’t that high of a difference, and I know Tsukasa has “piercing damage go brrrrr” but Finn has “Finishers go brrrrrr” which isn’t circumstantial in the case of the 1916 (as opposed to the Coup De Grâce which needs a vantage point), whereas Tsukasa relies on his sword to get his instantly game-changing hits in

Wouldn't Finn need to the LS advantage to disarm Tsukasa?

I mean, when people get hit hard by shit they drop stuff, especially in cases of blunt force which is like, Finn’s only option of offence here

A sword is still an advantage, it's not like Tsukasa vs Finn is the same as Tsukasa (Without sword) vs Finn

This is true, it’s an advantage, but it’s been debated endlessly the question of Wrestlers vs Swords, and generally the most skilled wrestlers can circumvent this issue (as discussed in Jericho vs Tsukasa especially.) While people on Finn’s stage of the scaling chain usually do not meet these requirements fully, Finn’s slippery, fluid fighting style and extra contextual boosts to his skill showings mean he would be able to match the likes of the God Tiers in skill (not to mention new WWE skill feats have come since Jericho vs Tsukasa, where the two were agreed roughly even if not in Jericho’s favour).

Not sure if that'll work since Tsukasa is physically stronger and was unfazed after having his lungs critically wounded

Basically what Random said, though Pain Tolerance is a thing that exists in WWE, and that hasn’t stopped Finn from hitting opponents HARD, so...

Jericho holds a solid skill edge over Balor

Hot Take: Jericho at the time of Jericho vs Tsukasa is NOT as skilled as Bálor

Not only was Jericho generally competing with people in his weight class, meaning he didn’t automatically have a massive disadvantage in every fight he went into, but new skill feats for the verse have been found since. I need to stress that Finn is a cruiserweight and has still enjoyed massive levels of success in a heavyweight division, bring Jericho down to 205 Live weight class stuff and he doesn’t dominate the way he did

 

[Pikaman]

Even if Finn can eventually disarm Tsukasa, Tsukasa will probably be able to use his sword to damage Finn before he could do that.

Bálor’s whole style is, as a consequence of his circumstances, creating and exploiting openings from bigger fighters dealing blows that can halt him VERY quickly. He has got fluidity of moveset, preserving momentum, agility, exploiting openings etc. down to a SCIENCE. Also, even if Tsukasa could tag him with the sword in time, Finn’s 1916 is just as devastating to Tsukasa as getting stabbed is devastating to Finn

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Hot Take: Jericho at the time of Jericho vs Tsukasa is NOT as skilled as Bálor

Take that back right now.

Everything else you said was valid, though.

 

[CorbinMLG]

Finn’s 1916 is just as devastating to Tsukasa as getting stabbed is devastating to Finn

But isn't it easier for Tsukasa to hit Finn with the sword than for Finn to do the 1916 on Tsukasa? Tsukasa has the range advantage with swords, and Finn would first have to focus on disarming Tsukasa, so that he could get closer to do the 1916.