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Tier 9-B Enter the Octagon Tournament: Chris Jericho vs Tsukasa Shishio

DemonicDude

DemonicDude

9,672
6,156
Quarter Final 1:

Rules:
  • Same Rules as stated in the Tournament.
  • Speed Equalized
  • Distance: Fighting distance for every matchup will be 6 meters.
  • Location: The Octagon UFC Ring. Exit it and you lose.
Results:
Chris Jericho: 7 (Random, Pika, DD, Kazuma, Cuteanime, Divine, Vin)
Tsukasa Shishio: 5 (DT, Spinoirr, Vin, Nierre, Brutelho)
Inconclusive:

Randomguy345 vs Spinoirr


JLlZhJ6.png
 
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Alright frist things first he has this massive twin buster sword made of metal as someone he has a main weapon after being brought back from becoming Stone for a second time

Screenshot_20210804-203115.png
 
Being an UFC champion Tsukasa has the home advantage on this battlefield.
So he obviously wins.
 
Hmm...
It all comes down to combat moves and experience, You don't need to be UFC champion in order to defeat a UFC champ we're going to have to wait and see what Jericho has to offer in this key
 
Pikaman said:
Tbf WWE and UFC are, while distinct, at least partially related areas, so the home field advantage is dulled here slightly
Click to expand...
That's not enough. Home field advantage always prevails.

Alright, serious argument time.
Being an undefeated UFC world champion I dare say Tsukasa has the overall skill advantage. Chris is also a champion, but he isn't undefeated world champion (and IMO UFC is a bit harder than wrestling)
IMO he probably has the more practical weaponry.
And then the AP.

IMO it doesn't look good for Chris, but I will read some more arguments.
 
DontTalkDT said:
Being an undefeated UFC world champion I dare say Tsukasa has the overall skill advantage. Chris is also a champion, but he isn't undefeated world champion
Click to expand...
I mean it’s dependent on in verse context, if all of Tsukasa’s competition would be fodder skill wise in WWE then being UFC champ in his verse is not particularly impressive in the context of the match
 
DontTalkDT said:
(and IMO UFC is a bit harder than wrestling)
Click to expand...
That is generally true from an eye's perspective but UFC fighters showed up in WWE and was squashed under 1 minute by Lesnar such as Lesnar vs Cain Velasquez Crown Jewel PPV fight.
Lesnar is a UFC fighter and Triple H can defeat him who I'm pretty sure scales to Jericho)
(So yes in verse WWE top tier talents such as Lesnar can squash a UFC fighter and Jericho is in the top tier as well)
It all depends on the scaling of Jericho plus his moves
 
Given that Dr. Stone before everyone turned to sone is basically real life 2019 i assume they were as skilled as UFC fighters IRL
 
Pikaman said:
Bangs head on desk aggressively /hj
Click to expand...
I think looking at real world UFC - WWE connections shows the two are relatively equal. Brock Lesnar was amazing in UFC, and dominated WWE similarity, Ronda Rousey didn’t have a bad stint in UFC for a while, moved over to Wrestling, and while she started off hot she’s ultimately flopped imo
 
DemonicDude said:
What types of people did Tsukasa defeated and what are their combat techniques and moves.
Click to expand...
Tsukasa presumably can defeat absolutely everyone on earth in hand-to-hand combat.
So he for example easily stomped Kohaku and Hyuga would stand no chance against him in a fair fight, even of Tsukasa were unarmed and he armed.
Tsukasa also beat soldiers and stuff.

I could look for some combat showings, but not enough time right now, so I will leave that to whoever nominated Tsukasa. I know Kohaku has some impressive athletics showings.

That said, what are skill showings of Chris that would go beyond real life human skill?
 
this is what we have (in the anime) of his past in UFC and he fought in it ever sense he was a kid and while we don't know their skill level. the fact he beat adults even when he was a kid + the fact he is known as the strongest high shcooler even in the usa when he is from japan
 
DontTalkDT said:
Being an undefeated UFC world champion I dare say Tsukasa has the overall skill advantage.
Click to expand...
Jericho was the first ever Undisputed WWE Champion in WWE, defeating both The Rock and Stone Cold on the same night, and he holds the record for most Intercontinental Title wins at 9. WWE is a mixture of wrestling, grappling and striking, which is the exact same thing as UFC, so home field advantage, as well as arguing that UFC is a bit harder than WWE isn't a good argument. If anything, the 2 fighting styles are dead even in almost any scenario you put them in.

Jericho has gone up against the likes of The Undertaker, who is considered the greatest pure striker in Sports Entertainment history. Even the likes of Kurt Angle was scared to take a punch from him.

If ya don't know Kurt Angle, he's notorious for winning a gold medal with a broken neck, who is this skilled, and was named the greatest shoot wrestler ever.

Jericho has not only gone up against The Undertaker (and is perfectly capable of harming him), he's also able to fight on par with people who has beaten Kurt Angle on two occasions, that being John Cena, who was able to beat Kurt Angle on two different occasions. Jericho is able to fight on par with Cena.

Chris Jericho defeated Dolph Ziggler. Ziggler has a great amateur wrestling background. Ziggler set the record for most pins in St. Edward High School with 82 pins. When he was a wrestlers at Kent State University, he at one point, held the record for most career wins in the team's history, earning 121 wins (the record was soon broken, but this still says a lot for how skilled Jericho is). I'd like to mention that Jericho also had ****** up ribs in this matchup as well, so even more impressive.

Not to mention that Jericho has over 30 years of experience wrestling, and has competed in over 2000 matches in his career.

Tsukasa has Class 25 LS, while Jericho is only Class 5, so you'd assume that Jericho won't be able to put Tsukasa in a wrestling hold here, right? Wrong. Jericho has put wrestlers with Class 25 LS in holds (Great Khali, The Undertaker, John Cena, etc.), so higher LS won't play a factor here.

Besides, Jericho is used to having the Skill, Power, LS, Experience, and even Speed disadvantage in a wrestling match, and since most of the advantages Tsukasa has in this fight are either too small to make a difference, or don't play a huge factor in this fight, Jericho will have no problem finding ways around Tsukasa's advantages.

Plus, WWE has had many wrestlers who have UFC experience (Brock Lesnar, Shayna Baszler, Ronda Rousey, etc.), so facing a UFC fighter won't be anything new to the WWE verse.

Jericho's main problem is Tsukasa's weaponry, which will give him a hefty range advantage. Not overwhelming, but enough to give Jericho a tough time. Jericho just needs to pick his spots correctly, which he is more than capable of doing.
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
Jericho was the first ever Undisputed WWE Champion in WWE, defeating both The Rock and Stone Cold on the same night, and he holds the record for most Intercontinental Title wins at 9. WWE is a mixture of wrestling, grappling and striking, which is the exact same thing as UFC, so home field advantage, as well as arguing that UFC is a bit harder than WWE isn't a good argument. If anything, the 2 fighting styles are dead even in almost any scenario you put them in.

Jericho has gone up against the likes of The Undertaker, who is considered the greatest pure striker in Sports Entertainment history. Even the likes of Kurt Angle was scared to take a punch from him.

If ya don't know Kurt Angle, he's notorious for winning a gold medal with a broken neck, who is this skilled, and was named the greatest shoot wrestler ever.

Jericho has not only gone up against The Undertaker (and is perfectly capable of harming him), he's also able to fight on par with people who has beaten Kurt Angle on two occasions, that being John Cena, who was able to beat Kurt Angle on two different occasions. Jericho is able to fight on par with Cena.

Chris Jericho defeated Dolph Ziggler. Ziggler has a great amateur wrestling background. Ziggler set the record for most pins in St. Edward High School with 82 pins. When he was a wrestlers at Kent State University, he at one point, held the record for most career wins in the team's history, earning 121 wins (the record was soon broken, but this still says a lot for how skilled Jericho is).

Not to mention that Jericho has over 30 years of experience wrestling, and has competed in over 2000 matches in his career.

Tsukasa has Class 25 LS, while Jericho is only Class 5, so you'd assume that Jericho won't be able to put Tsukasa in a wrestling hold here, right? Wrong. Jericho has put wrestlers with Class 25 LS in holds (Great Khali, The Undertaker, John Cena, etc.), so higher LS won't play a factor here.

Besides, Jericho is used to having the Skill, Power, LS, Experience, and even Speed disadvantage in a wrestling match, and since most of the advantages Tsukasa has in this fight are either too small to make a difference, or don't play a huge factor in this fight, Jericho will have no problem finding ways around Tsukasa's advantages.

Plus, WWE has had many wrestlers who have UFC experience (Brock Lesnar, Shayna Baszler, Ronda Rousey, etc.), so facing a UFC fighter won't be anything new to the WWE verse.

Jericho's main problem is Tsukasa's weaponry, which will give him a hefty range advantage. Not overwhelming, but enough to give Jericho a tough time. Jericho just needs to pick his spots correctly, which he is more than capable of doing.
Click to expand...
What I take from all of this is that Chris has many showings of being close to undefeatable world champion level, but I don't see anything that actually gives him a clear advantage over Tsukasa.
In which area is Chris actually clearly better than him?

I guess experience, technically, but Tsukasa can defeat people with that much experience, too. I doubt this will be a deciding factor.


Btw. I also disagree with higher LS doesn't matter. Chris can mitigate it with a good hold, but the disadvantage still makes it no doubt harder. Especially if Tsukasa uses it offensively.
 
Oh shit, I just forgot something.

RandomGuy2345 said:
Jericho has gone up against the likes of The Undertaker, who is considered the greatest pure striker in Sports Entertainment history. Even the likes of Kurt Angle was scared to take a punch from him.
Click to expand...
The Undertaker was undefeated at Wrestlemania for 21 straight years, so that also says alot.

The Undertaker also defeated Goldberg (this match was so shit, but just try to ignore that). Goldberg had a winning streak of 173-0 at one point, so even more impressive.

Jericho is able to fight on par with The Undertaker, who was able to do all of this.
 
DontTalkDT said:
Btw. I also disagree with higher LS doesn't matter. Chris can mitigate it with a good hold, but the disadvantage still makes it no doubt harder. Especially if Tsukasa uses it offensively.
Click to expand...
Jericho has faced people who's whole shtick is using their LS to overpower their opponents, so the LS advantage won't be that big of a struggle for someone who's dealt with that disadvantage on numerous occasions.
 
DontTalkDT said:
What I take from all of this is that Chris has many showings of being close to undefeatable world champion level
Click to expand...
This is him consistently being on the level of the GOATS of their respective Wrestling styles, that’s debatably above being an unbeaten World Champion
 
Pikaman said:
This is him consistently being on the level of the GOATS of their respective Wrestling styles, that’s debatably above being an unbeaten World Champion
Click to expand...
I would indeed debate against that. Greatest overall fighter is better than just on par with someone greatest in one style, as it means you also can deal with counter-styles and stuff.
 
DontTalkDT said:
I would indeed debate against that. Greatest overall fighter is better than just on par with someone greatest in one style, as it means you also can deal with counter-styles and stuff.
Click to expand...
Greatest fighter in a specific period is not inherently superior to The Greatest at a certain style of all time. And again verse context plays a role as well.
 
For example, Conor McGregor was one of the best if not the best UFC fighter for a time, and he certainly wouldn’t be top of the food chain in WWE, well, well, up there, but he would not be THE top Superstar. And that’s in modern day, which many a fan would argue is not the best Era for WWE ever in terms of skill

Arguing variety with counter tactics also ignores that Jericho has faced the GOATS of numerous Wrestling tactics, giving him experience against the best all of history can offer in numerous different fields
 
Pikaman said:
Greatest fighter in a specific period is not inherently superior to The Greatest at a certain style of all time. And again verse context plays a role as well.
Click to expand...
He's the greatest in two time periods at least. And, and I want to stress this, he is undefeated and indicated to be practically undefeatable. Even the best RL fighters in most classes lose occasionally. Tsukasa utterly dominates his with consistency.
I have yet to see verse context that puts Chris at above humanity level skill.
Pikaman said:
Arguing variety with counter tactics also ignores that Jericho has faced the GOATS of numerous Wrestling tactics, giving him experience against the best all of history can offer in numerous different fields
Click to expand...
Yeah, but facing lots of separate people good at one thing just means you can outmanoeuvre someone good at one thing. It doesn't equate to being able to fight someone good at all of those things at once or anything.
I'm not saying it's not impressive. But I don't think it's beyond Tsukasa's skill impressive.
 
DontTalkDT said:
Yeah, but facing lots of separate people good at one thing just means you can outmanoeuvre someone good at one thing. It doesn't equate to being able to fight someone good at all of those things at once or anything.
Click to expand...
Your argument here is flawed too, if Tsukasa switches styles Chris can adapt easily because of the large repertoire Chris has faced in his career, above Tsukasa, I’d be willing to bet. He knows how to beat the best humanity has to offer in terms of each fighting style, so he just has to apply all of that in one match. Implying he’s not capable of juggling all those different techniques would be an insult.
 
DontTalkDT said:
I would indeed debate against that. Greatest overall fighter is better than just on par with someone greatest in one style, as it means you also can deal with counter-styles and stuff.
Click to expand...
Bro, being undefeated for 2 decades is more than enough to fight on par with someone who was an undefeated UFC world champion.

Plus, UFC is almost the exact same thing as WWE. Both styles use wrestling, grappling, and striking, so the argument that "being the greatest overall fighter is better than just on par with someone greatest in one style" makes no sense.

Might I mention that The Undertaker has had wars with the likes of Brock Lesnar.

Lesnar had a record of 106-5 in his 4 years of college wrestling at the NCAA, as well as winning the NCAA Division I Heavyweight Championship.

Lesnar also had a UFC career. Lesnar also ended the iconic 21-year Wrestlemania win streak of The Undertaker.

Undertaker and Lesnar had wars with each other, both being able to fight on par with each other. Jericho was able to fight on par with The Undertaker.

Jericho was able to fight on par with someone who was able to fight on par with someone who ended their 21-year undefeated streak. Over 2 decades of being undefeated. This is 100% equal to Tsukasa's level of skill.

DontTalkDT said:
He's the greatest in two time periods at least. And, and I want to stress this, he is undefeated and indicated to be practically undefeatable. Even the best RL fighters in most classes lose occasionally. Tsukasa utterly dominates his with consistency.
I have yet to see verse context that puts Chris at above humanity level skill.
Click to expand...
Being dominant in the UFC is impressive, but it's not on the level of the GOATS of wrestling. You're making it seem like Tsukasa has faced fighters of multiple different styles of wrestling like Jericho has (which is false).

I have yet to see where Tsukasa has faced someone who is considered the best pure striker in history, as well as being undefeated for 21 years at Wrestlemania in the likes of The Undetaker.

I have yet to see where Tsukasa has faced someone who started wrestling at the age of 7, and was named the greatest shoot wrestler of all time in Kurt Angle.

I have yet to see where Tsukasa has faced someone who ended a 21-year undefeated streak in the likes of Brock Lesnar.

And I have yet to see where Tsukasa has faced someone who had a winning streak of 173-0 in the likes of Goldberg.

Tsukasa might be undefeated in one area of fighting, but Jericho has faced all kinds of fighters with different styles, something you have yet to prove with Tsukasa. Jericho will be able to adapt to Tsukasa's fighting style.

Not to mention, unless proven otherwise, I'm inclined to believe that Jericho has more techniques than Tsukasa has. Also Jericho's Codebreaker will do significantly more damage than his normal moves (finishing maneuvers in wrestling do more damage than normal ones), and considering the AP gap is pretty negligible at only 1.62x, it's a GG for Tsukasa if Jericho hits this.
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
Bro, being undefeated for 2 decades is more than enough to fight on par with someone who was an undefeated UFC world champion.

Plus, UFC is almost the exact same thing as WWE. Both styles use wrestling, grappling, and striking, so the argument that "being the greatest overall fighter is better than just on par with someone greatest in one style" makes no sense.

Might I mention that The Undertaker has had wars with the likes of Brock Lesnar.

Lesnar had a record of 106-5 in his 4 years of college wrestling at the NCAA, as well as winning the NCAA Division I Heavyweight Championship.

Lesnar also had a UFC career. Lesnar also ended the iconic 21-year Wrestlemania win streak of The Undertaker.

Undertaker and Lesnar had wars with each other, both being able to fight on par with each other. Jericho was able to fight on par with The Undertaker.

Jericho was able to fight on par with someone who was able to fight on par with someone who ended their 21-year undefeated streak. Over 2 decades of being undefeated. This is 100% equal to Tsukasa's level of skill.


Being dominant in the UFC is impressive, but it's not on the level of the GOATS of wrestling. You're making it seem like Tsukasa has faced fighters of multiple different styles of wrestling like Jericho has (which is false).

I have yet to see where Tsukasa has faced someone who is considered the best pure striker in history, as well as being undefeated for 21 years at Wrestlemania in the likes of The Undetaker.

I have yet to see where Tsukasa has faced someone who started wrestling at the age of 7, and was named the greatest shoot wrestler of all time in Kurt Angle.

I have yet to see where Tsukasa has faced someone who ended a 21-year undefeated streak in the likes of Brock Lesnar.

And I have yet to see where Tsukasa has faced someone who had a winning streak of 173-0 in the likes of Goldberg.

Tsukasa might be undefeated in one area of fighting, but Jericho has faced all kinds of fighters with different styles, something you have yet to prove with Tsukasa. Jericho will be able to adapt to Tsukasa's fighting style.

Not to mention, unless proven otherwise, I'm inclined to believe that Jericho has more techniques than Tsukasa has. Also Jericho's Codebreaker will do significantly more damage than his normal moves (finishing maneuvers in wrestling do more damage than normal ones), and considering the AP gap is pretty negligible at only 1.62x, it's a GG for Tsukasa if Jericho hits this.
Click to expand...
99% of your points are valid but I do think UFC involves numerous martial arts, maybe not quite on the level of WWE (I don’t think any Lucha Libres show up in UFC lmao) but it’s not that far off.


Still, I do agree that Jericho is => to Tsukasa in skill at worst
 
Pikaman said:
Tsukasa is hardly above humanity himself. Easily dominating 1-2 UFC time periods is not a superhuman skill feat, nor would I argue being one of the GOAT WWE Wrestlers is. Both are the high upper ends of Peak Human, and roughly equal
Click to expand...
Actually Tsukasa is also called "History strongest primate highschooler", so going by that he technically is not just the strongest in modern age.

And he defeated an MMA champion in seconds, meaning he can defeat champion level fighters extremely casually.
 
Well he can target his body's weak points to kill him instantly like he did with senku before he was brought back due to the stone left on his neck
 
I think Tsukasa’s sword is an important factor, but Jericho wouldn’t be the wrestler he is today if he got stumped by something as basic as a range disadvantage. I think he’s the more seasoned fighter and that his codebreaker means that AP is negligible since Jericho has moves that will have Tsukasa out for the count in no time after not a whole lot of damage. So I will vote Jericho for now, I’m ultimately unconvinced by arguments about Tsukasa’s skill
 
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