9-A World's Greatest Fighters Tournament: Spider-Man vs Batman (Round 1 Finale)

[RandomGuy2345]

The moment we've all been waiting for...

The finale of the 9-A World's Greatest Fighters Tournament!

In one corner, we have the hero that almost always gets the worse end of the stick, Spiiiiideeeerrr Maaaaaaannn!

And his opponent, he's the guy that for some reason, can never finish off the person that has constantly caused chaos throughout Gotham, Baaaaatttmaaaaaaannn!

Rules are stated here.

Always Getting Screwed Over By Women:

Can't Kill The Joker:

Most Likely To Happen:

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Batman: 188.87 Megajoles

Spider-Man: 251.04 Megajoules

Spidey has a ~1.33x AP advantage.

 

[ZoroNotZolo]

Following. I'll wait and see what arguments we have before voting.

 

[Shadyboi0]

 

[Chariot190]

In the time it took this match to go up, I started, played, and beat Arkham Knight, and have since gone on to do other shit.

Idk how much I even give a **** about the tourney anymore, and that goes without saying the bunch of random shit I'm gonna whip out but shrug.

First things first, all of Spidey's tech is useless, Batman has several ways to shut down tech depending on the type (3 ways to be exact, all 3 in conjunction basically shuts down any and all tech and cover the gaps that the others can't shut down).

He can even make it so if said tech is used, they electrocute the wielder. Which is to say spidey's webshooter's aren't an option here, and with it goes 80% of his arsenal.

 

[Armorchompy]

Are the webshooter even electric? Typically they're just purely mechanical

 

[Chariot190]

Given he can remotely charge things like guns plus a whole fuckton of other things including some shit that doesn't make much sense rendering them useless, shrug.

The shock one (REC gun, not that ping one) would also be problematic given he could cause them to burst. And with detective vision he'd know everything Spidey has on him, down to the exact molecular chemical composition of his web fluids so there's no taking him by surprise, he'll know exactly what Spidey can do and work to snip the issue in the bud right away.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

The first immediate issue Batman has here is the fact that I nominated Black Suit Spidey, who can simultaneously One-Shot two people who are so string that Base Spidey can't neat them at all, so Batman being weaker than Base Spidey means that if Spidey tags him with anything then he's getting absolutely crippled at best or outright killed at worst.

 

[King_Dom470]

Can't Spidey just immediately web batman up?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Can't Spidey just immediately web batman up?

As long as he can hit him yes since he has a massive LS advantage.

 

[King_Dom470]

As long as he can hit him yes since he has a massive LS advantage.

then im probably leaning towards spidey. Granted batman has a pretty decent skill advantage but i see spidey webbing him up first

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

The biggest problem for Batman here is that his own style of combat against regular sized people without weapons kind of ***** him over here as his go to strategy is usually to block and redirect the opponents attacks, however that doesn't work against someone massively more powerful than him to the point of One-Shotting him and has a ginormous LS advantage so Batman will go to block, get his arm broken and his chest ****** up just from the first impact, potentially even knocking him out right then and there, not to mention Spidey being so strong that physical attacks are meaningless coming from Batman as he'll just tank it all meaning Batman would have to start with and use only hax.

 

[SamanPatou]

The first immediate issue Batman has here is the fact that I nominated Black Suit Spidey, who can simultaneously One-Shot two people who are so string that Base Spidey can't neat them at all, so Batman being weaker than Base Spidey means that if Spidey tags him with anything then he's getting absolutely crippled at best or outright killed at worst.

That's not how it works, it's always the same story, in-verse oneshots don't translate to other verses, you need numbers for that. Spidey's not 7-5x Bats, so he ain't oneshotting him nor no-selling his blows. He is stronger, we account that (including the black suit boost), but that's it.

Anyway, I know little of the two, so Imma throw some cents here, based on impressions.

• Batman seems more experienced, out of sheer age, number of adventures and foes. Probably even more skilled, at least in h2h?
• Spidey does have unconventional stuff in his fighting style, so that could work around to an extent, but hasn't Bats faced similarly acrobatic or very mobile opponents in the games?
• Spidey's stronger, Bats seems to have a record of dealing with people more powerful than him, so that might help him.
• How strong were the people that Spidey has restrained with his webs? To get an idea of how constricting would they be on Bats.
• Spidey's enhanced senses could work against marksmanship and stealth.
• For combat, both have good senses, helping against each other's projectiles.
• Detective Vision would indeed inform him of the Web-Shooters, from what I read on the wiki. Is it a tool he uses in combat?
• The disruptor should work on the shooters, limiting Spidey's options greatly, since it jams guns and other mechanical things, so it could work the same on them.
• Batman has more and better equipment
• Bats resists electricity
• The Black Suit might prompt Spidey to rely more on violence rather than strategy, right? That could be detrimental.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

That's not how it works, it's always the same story, in-verse oneshots don't translate to other verses, you need numbers for that. Spidey's not 7-5x Bats, so he ain't oneshotting him nor no-selling his blows. He is stronger, we account that (including the black suit boost), but that's it.

I have never in my life seen a Versus Thread that doesn't treat someone one-shotting a character stronger than their opponent as being able to one-shot said opponent.

Anyway, I know little of the two, so Imma throw some cents here, based on impressions.

• Batman seems more experienced, out of sheer age, number of adventures and foes. Probably even more skilled, at least in h2h?

Fair

• Spidey does have unconventional stuff in his fighting style, so that could work around to an extent, but hasn't Bats faced similarly acrobatic or very mobile opponents in the games?

This version of Spidey perhaps.

• Spidey's stronger, Bats seems to have a record of dealing with people more powerful than him, so that might help him.

That's useful but Batman has never fought someone the same size as him that can One-Shot him with literally any attack so i doubt he'd be expecting that.

• How strong were the people that Spidey has restrained with his webs? To get an idea of how constricting would they be on Bats.

People equal in strength to Spidey can get restrained by his webbing for prolonged periods of time.

• Spidey's enhanced senses could work against marksmanship and stealth.

FoF Spidey doesn't have the same kind of Precog as most other Spideys but he still has the ability to detect danger so Stealth is a nin-factor almost entirely.

• For combat, both have good senses, helping against each other's projectiles.

Fair.

• Detective Vision would indeed inform him of the Web-Shooters, from what I read on the wiki. Is it a tool he uses in combat?

Yes, it is a very important part of his arsenal that he uses quite liberally in combat, sometimes even right out the gate.

• The disruptor should work on the shooters, limiting Spidey's options greatly, since it jams guns and other mechanical things, so it could work the same on them.

If he can manage to tag Spidey with it then I agree since I remember that being a projectile and not some hit-scan device.

• Batman has more and better equipment

Ehhh, depends on context as Spidey can drain life from his opponents that he webs up to heal himself.

• Bats resists electricity

Fair.

• The Black Suit might prompt Spidey to rely more on violence rather than strategy, right? That could be detrimental.

No, it doesn't impede his strategic thought at all, it just makes him more violent over time and even then he was capable of wearing it for the length of the entire final mission and it didn't impair him whatsoever with any negative effects.

 

[SamanPatou]

I have never in my life seen a Versus Thread that doesn't treat someone one-shotting a character stronger than their opponent as being able to one-shot said opponent.

99% of the vs threads do it and the others that don't are wrong, it's literally against our rules, because some verses require not even a 2x difference to oneshot someone, others much more.

That's useful but Batman has never fought someone the same size as him that can One-Shot him with literally any attack so i doubt he'd be expecting that.

Yes, but that's not the case here with the oneshot. Also, Chariot might enlighten us more on the latter, because people like Titan Joker iirc were much, much stronger than him, but I can't talk reliably about it.

People equal in strength to Spidey can get restrained by his webbing for prolonged periods of time.

Fair

Ehhh, depends on context as Spidey can drain life from his opponents that he webs up to heal himself.

I was speaking in terms of sheer numbers mostly, since he's got a lot of useful effects on the batarangs. Also, since the tournament can't restrict it, Bats should virtually be able to summon the Batmobile, since it's not a tier above him and is standard equipment. But how likely would it be for him to do it? And can it enter the arena?

No, it doesn't impede his strategic thought at all, it just makes him more violent over time and even then he was capable of wearing it for the length of the entire final mission and it didn't impair him whatsoever with any negative effects.

Gotcha

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

99% of the vs threads do it and the others that don't are wrong, it's literally against our rules, because some verses require not even a 2x difference to oneshot someone, others much more.

That's really really stupid but alright, he's still a One-Shot and No-Sell value above his base from though which was already stronger than Batman to begin with so that should absolutely mean something here.

Yes, but that's not the case here with the oneshot. Also, Chariot might enlighten us more on the latter, because people like Titan Joker iirc were much, much stronger than him, but I can't talk reliably about it.

As far as I remember the only character that was shown that's able to One-Shot Batman is that shark in Penguin's Lair from Arkham City and even then that's only with its bite, not anything else as Batman beat the shit out of it when it missed him and it didn't try that again.

Fair


I was speaking in terms of sheer numbers mostly, since he's got a lot of useful effects on the batarangs. Also, since the tournament can't restrict it, Bats should virtually be able to summon the Batmobile, since it's not a tier above him and is standard equipment. But how likely would it be for him to do it? And can it enter the arena?

I think the rules of the tournament prevent Batman from using his vehicles because they're technically outside help that doesn't revolve around melee combat. Also he's never summoned the Batmobile to fight one guy that doesn't even have his own vehicle before.

 

[SamanPatou]

That's really really stupid but alright, he's still a One-Shot and No-Sell value above his base from though which was already stronger than Batman to begin with so that should absolutely mean something here.

It isn't, because even within the same verse we have fluctuating requirements for oneshots. Aside from those that don't give numbers, take Dragon Ball, where much less than 1X different is sometimes enough, while other times characters can go toe to toe even when the multiplier is higher.
Or verses were huge scaling chains are in place, and yet oneshots don't properly occur anyway. Or even real life, were you can be oneshot by someone weaker than you, given the right strike.

All verses have their own rules, and when pitting different ones against each other, you need a compromise to allow the game to take place.
The 7.5X AP rule is there for this exact reason.

I think the rules of the tournament prevent Batman from using his vehicles because they're technically outside help that doesn't revolve around melee combat. Also he's never summoned the Batmobile to fight one guy that doesn't even have his own vehicle before.

If it's not in-character it's ok, but it's not outside help if Bats can summon it any time he wants it.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

It isn't, because even within the same verse we have fluctuating requirements for oneshots. Aside from those that don't give numbers, take Dragon Ball, where much less than 1X different is sometimes enough, while other times characters can go toe to toe even when the multiplier is higher.
Or verses were huge scaling chains are in place, and yet oneshots don't properly occur anyway. Or even real life, were you can be oneshot by someone weaker than you, given the right strike.

I get where you're coming from but I disagree. Even if I were to believe you then Spidey still is vastly more powerful than literally any other character in Arkham, including the shark that One-Shot Batman to begin with, so Batman can canonically be One-Shot by someone weaker than Spidey.

All verses have their own rules, and when pitting different ones against each other, you need a compromise to allow the game to take place.
The 7.5X AP rule is there for this exact reason.

Yes, but if they have an established Scaling Chain and that includes One-Shotting or getting One-Shot by someone weaker or stronger than the fighters then it should be taken into account for Versus Threads, otherwise you're being incredibly dishonest.

If it's not in-character it's ok, but it's not outside help if Bats can summon it any time he wants it.

I wasn't really trying to imply it was outside help so to speak, I just didn't have a better phrase for it.

 

[SamanPatou]

The scaling chain is still arbitrary to that specific verse though. If you disagree with the rule, then make a wiki-wide CRT to change it, until then the 7.5X AP rule stands, as we haven't considered oneshots not even matches were the opponent had clear numbers being several times the opponent, in opposition to generic upscaling through oneshots.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

The scaling chain is still arbitrary to that specific verse though. If you disagree with the rule, then make a wiki-wide CRT to change it, until then the 7.5X AP rule stands, as we haven't considered oneshots not even matches were the opponent had clear numbers being several times the opponent, in opposition to generic upscaling through oneshots.

By the way, One-Shots aren't 7.5× anymore, the gap was lowered to 5× from what I heard other people talking about. Even then, you're literally the only person I've ever met who is this strict on this rule. Even some of the other staff members agree with One-Shot scaling being valid, mostly the ones that interact with MHA from what I've seen.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Not going to argue for any of the characters, I just want to point out that Saman is correct about needing to scale 7.5x (or whatever new value is stablished later on) above the opponent for a character to be one-shot (and one-shot in the sense that a hit could take down someone, not gravely injure someone or something like that), we consider things like "one-shotting" someone in verse as just being unquantifiable above X value in versus threads because of how one-shots vary so much between verse (as Saman said), some people are just salty that their character can't one-shot Y in a versus thread despite one-shotting Z in their verse who scale above Y (and there are times when Z actually scale below Y but they are close enough) so they simply ignore the rule and continue regardless of it.

 

[Shadyboi0]

The oneshot rule is confusing. Still made it to semi finals once with DS prime using it.

 

[SamanPatou]

Bump