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9-A World's Greatest Fighters Tournament: Shadowman vs Alberto Del Rio (Round 1)

RandomGuy2345

RandomGuy2345

He/Him
24,064
14,491
Welcome to the fifth match of the 9-A World's Greatest Fighters Tournament! And this is a match I'm particularly looking forward to, since I'm the one participating!

Introducing first, ladies and gentlemen, I present to you a true Mexican!. He is the essence of excellence and the pride of Mexico! He is AlbertooOOooooooOOOOOoo del RrrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiooooooOOoOO!!!!!

And his opponent, he is without a shadow of a doubt, a formidable foe! It's ShadoOOowmaAAaan!!!

Rules are stated here.

The Vigilante: 7 (Armor, Random, Saman, Divine, AThe, Ace, Razor)

The Essence of Excellence:

Hell nah:

06jfG1L.png
 
Last edited:
Shadowman: 303.52 Megajoules

Del Rio: 197.4 Megajoules, higher with Superkick

Shadowman holds a 1.54x AP advantage, which might seem very problematic for Del Rio, but I'll go in further detail as to why this isn't too big of a deal.
 
Shadowman also seems to hold a pretty massive stamina edge, alongside a crushing LS advantage which basically prevents any grappling from the wrestler.
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
I am aware of that.

However, Del Rio has defeated people with Class 5 to Class 25 LS on numerous occasions.
Click to expand...
Shadowman has defeated people with 6-A+ AP, I still wouldn't give him much of a chance against one. I'd like to hear a more concrete argument from your side before I can counter it.
 
Also, for the sake of full disclosure, I realized I had forgotten to give Shadowman LS and Speed ratings as Jack Boniface, so I quickly went and did that. It probably won't matter at all for the sake of this tournament, I just thought I should say.
 
Question: I have a video from Dailymotion, and I need to make a few gifs in order to support my point, but none of the sites I use to make gifs support Dailymotion.

Are any of y'all able to help me in making it a bit easier for me?
 
I... can't say I can, sorry. Maybe you can download them in some way and then turn them into gifs?
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
Question: I have a video from Dailymotion, and I need to make a few gifs in order to support my point, but none of the sites I use to make gifs support Dailymotion.

Are any of y'all able to help me in making it a bit easier for me?
Click to expand...
just post the clips into imgur brother
 
In 1997, he placed third at the World Junior Championships, in the Czech Republic. He also won the Central American and Caribbean Games in his weight division three times and won a medal at the Pan American Games. Del Rio also has experience in MMA, which was mentioned by commentary, having a record of 9-6.

Del Rio defeated Rey Mysterio in his debut match. Rey Mysterio has defeated the likes of Chris Jericho. Chris has shown to fight on instinct, a prime example being when he instinctively hit a Codebreaker on Rey Mysterio himself after getting hit by Rey's finisher prior. Chris has also shown to have expert timing, being able to catch opponents mid-air with his patent Codebreaker. He’s even shown to bust out a springboard Codebreaker if need be.

Del Rio has traded wins with the likes of Dolph Ziggler. Ziggler has a great amateur wrestling background. Ziggler set the record for most pins in St. Edward High School with 82 pins. When he was a wrestler at Kent State University, he at one point, held the record for most career wins in the team's history, earning 121 wins.

Del Rio has also fought on par with the likes of John Cena on numerous occasions. Cena is the same guy who was able to beat Bobby Lashley. Bobby Lashley has a very good mixed martial arts background, having a record of 15-2, defeating the likes of Joshua Franklin in 41 seconds (TKO), and Mike Cook in 24 seconds (Submission). He even defeated James Thompson, who at that point, had over a decade of experience in mixed martial arts. Lashley defeated him in 54 seconds via TKO. Lashley has also demonstrated to have military training due to his service in the army. He competed in amateur wrestling in the army's World Class Athlete Program. During three years in the Army, he won a gold and silver medal in the International Military Sports Council senior freestyle wrestling event.

Del Rio is leagues above the likes of Axiom. Thanks to his gift for mathematics, Axiom believes that anything can be broken down into a formula. He states that he can quickly analyze and react to anything. He uses his gift for mathematics, as well as his natural technical skill to quickly counter submission maneuvers, pinning positions, and grapple maneuvers. His natural athleticism, mixed in with his technical ring prowess, allows him to be creative with his submissions. He also makes his speed to good use by quickly dodging countering his opponents offense. He’s also shown to have really good timing, as he can catch people with his offense while they're in mid-air. Despite this, the guy struggles with NXT level wrestlers, while Del Rio has consistently shown to fight on par with some of the greatest wrestlers of all time.

To add on, Del Rio is significantly above the likes of Dexter Lumis, who’s able to fight competently despite being blindfolded. Del Rio has also fought on par with and even defeated the likes of Christian, who is also able to avoid attacks on instinct alone.

Del Rio has also defeated the likes of John Morrison. John Morrison is knowledgeable about multiple martial arts. He stated in an interview that he was a former amateur collegiate wrestler and gymnastic, and he's studied kung fu, boxing, capoeira, and parkour, and that he applies all of these forms of martial arts in his fighting style. He uses his parkour to pull extremely acrobatic maneuvers, as well as to use the environment around him to execute his moves as well. He can switch to capoeira kicks and feint kicks to stun and throw his opponents off game, and he’s efficient enough with amateur wrestling to the point where he can hold his own against the likes of Dolph Ziggler in that respective discipline.

Del Rio’s instincts, while not as impressive as Christian’s or Jericho’s, aren’t too shabby. His instincts somewhat intertwine with his willpower, a prime example being when he instinctively beat the 10 count after getting hit by Big Show's KO Punch. The KO Punch is by far one of the most powerful and destructive finishers in the WWE, as it took down some of the top stars in the WWE. It was even show to be superior to Sheamus' Brogue Kick. A referee suffered chronic neck pain when hit with the move. The Brogue Kick was stated to cause extreme nerve damage and tingling in the extremities of the victim. Even a top tier talent such as Christian has stated that since he got hit with the Brogue Kick last year, he hasn’t been the same since, and the nerve damage it caused forced him to get shoulder surgery. Here's a visual of the damage caused by the Brogue Kick. Big Show’s KO Punch is canonically stronger than the Brogue Kick, yet Del Rio was still able to beat the 10 count on instinct alone, and he had the will to fight on and even win.

Del Rio was at a big disadvantage there in that fight, as his opponent, that being the Big Show, had roughly 200+ pounds on him (Del Rio is 239 lbs and Big Show was 441 lbs at the time), and Show was leagues stronger. He has superhuman feats of strength, such as when he tipped over a 4400 pound Jeep, and is comparable to other strongmen in the WWE such as Mark Henry, who is able to lift a 4600 pound car off the ground, bent a steel pan, bent a steel rod, and can break chains, which proves that Del Rio can win fights against people who are much bigger and stronger than him to a degree Shadowman can’t reach (specifically in LS terms).

Not only that, but Del Rio is more than capable of locking in submissions on fighters far stronger than him. an example being here with Big Show and The Great Khali, so while LS will play a factor here, Del Rio is more than skilled enough to somewhat circumvent it.

As for what strategy Del Rio will employ, he’ll stick to what he usually does. He will primarily target the arm of his opponent. He has no remorse applying this strategy on his opponents, as he’s more than willing to severely injure his opponents arm. He’ll utilize strikes, throws, grappling maneuvers, and his patent submission finisher, the Cross Armbreaker. His secondary strategy is to target his opponents head, and while he’s not quite as versatile with this strategy as he is with targeting the arm, he still utilizes whatever he can in order to take his opponents out. He mainly relies on aggressive strikes, suplexes, and most importantly, his finishing maneuver, his Superkick, which has put away many top tier talents in the WWE such as Dolph Ziggler and John Cena.

So as you can see, Del Rio is primarily a technician/precision based fighter, relentlessly and aggressively targeting the body parts of his opponents. This way of fighting has scored Del Rio wins over people much bigger and stronger than him, even people who are much stronger than Shadowman from a lifting strength perspective. Another thing to not underestimate is Del Rio’s willpower, and while it’s not on the level of Shadowman’s, it’s not something to look over.
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
His instincts somewhat intertwine with his willpower, a prime example being when he instinctively beat the 10 count after getting hit by Big Show's KO Punch. The KO Punch is by far one of the most powerful and destructive finishers in the WWE, as it took down some of the top stars in the WWE. It was even show to be superior to Sheamus' Brogue Kick. A referee suffered chronic neck pain when hit with the move. The Brogue Kick was stated to cause extreme nerve damage and tingling in the extremities of the victim. Even a top tier talent such as Christian has stated that since he got hit with the Brogue Kick last year, he hasn’t been the same since, and the nerve damage it caused forced him to get shoulder surgery. Here's a visual of the damage caused by the Brogue Kick. Big Show’s KO Punch is canonically stronger than the Brogue Kick, yet Del Rio was still able to beat the 10 count on instinct alone, and he had the will to fight on and even win.
Click to expand...
I wanted to add this feat to Del Rio's stamina section, but because the site the video was on was Dailymotion, I had no way of putting everything into gifs because I couldn't find a create a gif or other websites that would download videos from Dailymotion or support it in general.

The satisfaction I have after finding a way to do it feels so good.
 
I'm not going to question that Alberto is significantly more skilled than Shadowman, I think you've made that very clear. I however disagree with him being capable of landing locks on people with superior LS. Regardless of portrayal, there's a lot of things that someone of greatly superior LS could do to break out that he'd effectively have no counter to, such as... honestly just flex the guy off, or grab their feet (leverage be damned, they don't need it with the gap) and fling him off. But I definitely agree that he has a big advantage in skill.

HOWEVER

  • While Shadowman can't compare in terms of direct skill, he is no slouch himself. Even as just a human (and he's actually less skilled for reasons I'll get into) Jack Boniface can still brawl with entire groups of armed thugs at once. Once he does put on the mask, Shadowman's combat instincts awaken and he becomes a different beast altogether. He's a master at fighting in wild, chaotic and unpredictable ways even with absolutely zero prior experience (this is his absolute first fight).
  • He's also way more acrobatic than Alberto, not to downplay his own skill but Del Rio is ultimately stuck to human limits given that y'know, all his acrobatic tricks are performed by an actor, with maybe a bit of help from the other actor, but still humanly possible. Meanwhile, Shadowman is on that Spider-Man shit. I would in particular point to that last fall, Shadowman can glide to halt his momentum in mid-air, which essentially mean he could potentially throw a feint in the middle of a jump to then attack at a normally impossible timing, or just escape basically any assault using his superior air mobility.
  • As for his own fighting style, Shadowman's a brute, and he makes it work. There really isn't that much technique beyond just being really good at what he does. The second Alberto gets close, he'll grab him and not let go until he's done. If Alberto strikes, he'll dodge and counter (he's obviously very quick on his feet). If Alberto lands that strike... he'll probably still counter, pain doesn't really bother him. Simplicity seems like a disadvantage and again he's definitely the less skilled fighter here, but it's really hard to beat something as simple as a bigger stronger guy who knows how to hurt you.
  • But even beyond that, Shadowman just has an inherent ability to mess with people more skilled than he is. He's so deeply chaotic and freeform in his patterns that he can just stop thinking completely, fight on instinct and overwhelm people who by all rights should be able to dismantle him (the guy he's beating up here is Obadiah Archer, I haven't researched this version of him yet but I do know that he is the best martial artist in the world, and that he has a superpower that makes him a literal peak human in martial skill. He's the technical type, just like Alberto, and he's stupid good). Even when they get their bearings and come back for round 2 he can still get his licks in. As shown by the above scans he also has a really good grasp on his opponents' fighting style and skill level, which means Austin won't hold too many surprises.
  • On the topic of skill scaling, Ishmael is the closest thing Jack has to a recurring villain. To put it bluntly, he's discount Bullseye (they guy from Marvel). He's obsessed with using random shit as weaponry and he's really good with it. I'm not gonna list his stuff but just look in his Feats section, he's pretty wild, dude throws a paper airplane through a guy's neck. Jack beats his ass every time (save for the first fight), obviously.
  • Ultimately while I do believe that Alberto would eventually start getting in some consistent damage, it'd be really hard for him to actually finish off Jack. Not only does he have insane pain tolerance, not only does he literally not even feel pain from most blows (which might include many of Alberto's attacks given the AP gap), not only does he... maybe get off on getting punched a bit? But he has some really good regeneration too. He can fix multiple shattered bones in the span of maybe a minute or get his throat slit and keep on fighting. Now there is a limit to this, he doesn't have infinite stamina, something like impalement really gets the wind out of his sails, but it takes a lot to put him down if all you're gonna be doing is punching and kicking. Even finishers, which might do some serious damage, I think he'd be able to get up from.
  • On the topic of finishers, when he's really up against the ropes Shadowman can draw upon some inner power and hit way harder than usual, granted that's for just one punch and it's not the most reliable thing in the world (i think it's in like, 2 maybe 3 fights, granted SM has only some 60 issues and he doesn't get beat up that badly in most of them), but against someone with lower AP that can really do some lasting damage.
So my thoughts are, essentially, that in the first minutes of the fight Shadowman and Austin both can land some good blows on each other, with Shadowman being able to keep one step ahead thanks to just how inherently confusing it is to fight him, eventually Alberto (just realized i called him austin lol) wises up to his style and begins to gain an edge and land more and more hits, though he has to stay careful as getting grabbed just once is really bad for him, but as the fight goes on and they keep trading blows, Shadowman keeps regenerating and while beaten down is ultimately far from defeated, while Alberto can't last forever and ultimately just gets outlasted, or knocked out with a lucky Empowerment blow.
 
There are things I vehemently agree with, and there are things I also vehemently disagree with, or at the very least, I feel like you might've misinterpreted, to say the least.

That being said, this is a very close and tight battle. I will conform a response to this soon.

I'm already liking this.
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
That being said, this is a very close and tight battle.
Click to expand...
ngl I dont think alberto has a snowball's chance in hell, regen and stamina goes kinda hard. Shadowman isnt a foe you can seemingly just beat up and expect to go down
 
Chariot190 said:
ngl I dont think alberto has a snowball's chance in hell, regen and stamina goes kinda hard. Shadowman isnt a foe you can seemingly just beat up and expect to go down
Click to expand...
That's your opinion.

Tbh, I have my doubts too, but it's all fun at the end of the day.
 
Armorchompy said:
Regardless of portrayal, there's a lot of things that someone of greatly superior LS could do to break out that he'd effectively have no counter to, such as... honestly just flex the guy off, or grab their feet (leverage be damned, they don't need it with the gap) and fling him off
Click to expand...
And that I agree with, but this comes back to my point of Del Rio's strategy of weakening Shadowman's arm so it'd be harder for Shadowman to break out, an example being here, when Del Rio severely injured Big Show's arm, which makes it easier for him lock in his submission maneuver, all the while making it harder for Show to escape due to his arm being severely injured. That being said, Del Rio is going to have to do a lot more to Shadowman that what I showed if he wants to make sure that Shadowman doesn't find ways to escape. My main point was that Del Rio doesn't just lock in the move and the person dozens of times stronger than him struggles to escape, it's that Del Rio damages the arm or his opponent enough to where it becomes a struggle to escape. That's how LS can get somewhat circumvented here.

Armorchompy said:
He's also way more acrobatic than Alberto, not to downplay his own skill but Del Rio is ultimately stuck to human limits given that y'know, all his acrobatic tricks are performed by an actor, with maybe a bit of help from the other actor, but still humanly possible. Meanwhile, Shadowman is on that Spider-Man shit. I would in particular point to that last fall, Shadowman can glide to halt his momentum in mid-air, which essentially mean he could potentially throw a feint in the middle of a jump to then attack at a normally impossible timing, or just escape basically any assault using his superior air mobility.
Click to expand...
Yeah. Can't really make an argument here. Del Rio has fought and defeated extremely acrobatic opponents (John Morrison and Rey Mysterio come to mind), but not on this level.

Armorchompy said:
Click to expand...
Armorchompy said:
As for his own fighting style, Shadowman's a brute, and he makes it work. There really isn't that much technique beyond just being really good at what he does. The second Alberto gets close, he'll grab him and not let go until he's done. If Alberto strikes, he'll dodge and counter (he's obviously very quick on his feet). If Alberto lands that strike... he'll probably still counter, pain doesn't really bother him. Simplicity seems like a disadvantage and again he's definitely the less skilled fighter here, but it's really hard to beat something as simple as a bigger stronger guy who knows how to hurt you.
Click to expand...
Armorchompy said:
But even beyond that, Shadowman just has an inherent ability to mess with people more skilled than he is. He's so deeply chaotic and freeform in his patterns that he can just stop thinking completely, fight on instinct and overwhelm people who by all rights should be able to dismantle him (the guy he's beating up here is Obadiah Archer, I haven't researched this version of him yet but I do know that he is the best martial artist in the world, and that he has a superpower that makes him a literal peak human in martial skill. He's the technical type, just like Alberto, and he's stupid good). Even when they get their bearings and come back for round 2 he can still get his licks in. As shown by the above scans he also has a really good grasp on his opponents' fighting style and skill level, which means Austin won't hold too many surprises.
Click to expand...
Going off of this, it seems Shadowman's "fighting style" is mostly barbaric in nature, relying on just overpowering his opponents and saying **** all to pain and whatever advantages they might have. Did I get that right?

If true, then Del Rio can't just charge in and start fighting (though that's not mainly his style to begin with). He'll have to constantly be on the defensive initially and time his strikes correctly and makes sure he doesn't take a devastating blow, because while he does have a very strong will, it's not on the level of Shadow's. Fortunately, this does somewhat favor Del Rio, as a lot of his moves are precision based. He'll basically have to break Shadowman down, which is going to be a very tough task because...

Armorchompy said:
Ultimately while I do believe that Alberto would eventually start getting in some consistent damage, it'd be really hard for him to actually finish off Jack. Not only does he have insane pain tolerance, not only does he literally not even feel pain from most blows (which might include many of Alberto's attacks given the AP gap), not only does he... maybe get off on getting punched a bit? But he has some really good regeneration too. He can fix multiple shattered bones in the span of maybe a minute or get his throat slit and keep on fighting. Now there is a limit to this, he doesn't have infinite stamina, something like impalement really gets the wind out of his sails, but it takes a lot to put him down if all you're gonna be doing is punching and kicking. Even finishers, which might do some serious damage, I think he'd be able to get up from.
Click to expand...
Shadowman has an insane pain tolerance. Del Rio would have to find a way to damage beyond just breaking Shadowman's arm, which he's more than willing to do in character. I'm confident in saying that Del Rio could potentially stoop down to those levels if he gets extremely desperate, especially when he's realizes that he needs to do way more than just break an arm in order to put Shadow down. I can see Del Rio at one point in the fight just snapping and stooping down to more gruesome tactics when he starts getting desperate.

Speaking of desperation, WWE guys, even the babyfaces, start to spam finishing moves when they realize that their opponent is one tough son of a gun (Seth Rollins vs "The Fiend" Bray Wyatt at the HIAC PPV is a prime example), so when Del Rio realizes how tough Shadowman is, he will start spamming his Superkick.

Armorchompy said:
So my thoughts are, essentially, that in the first minutes of the fight Shadowman and Austin both can land some good blows on each other, with Shadowman being able to keep one step ahead thanks to just how inherently confusing it is to fight him, eventually Alberto (just realized i called him austin lol) wises up to his style and begins to gain an edge and land more and more hits, though he has to stay careful as getting grabbed just once is really bad for him, but as the fight goes on and they keep trading blows, Shadowman keeps regenerating and while beaten down is ultimately far from defeated, while Alberto can't last forever and ultimately just gets outlasted, or knocked out with a lucky Empowerment blow.
Click to expand...
This is basically how I see it, too, adding the part where I said Del Rio starts getting desperate and spams his Superkick. The fight basically becomes a battle of wills, with Shadowman edging it out via outlasting Del Rio.

Well, now that we've reached a conclusion...

RandomGuy2345 said:
bent a steel pan, bent a steel rod,
Click to expand...
Would any of these feats of strength Mark Henry pulled off, if calc'd, would yield something >Class 25?
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
Would any of these feats of strength Mark Henry pulled off, if calc'd, would yield something >Class 25?
Click to expand...
They wouldn't id know because i just ran some numbers off batman doing the same shit but more impressive.
 
Yes ong, they'd need to be thick as **** to get Class 25 off a "bend".
Ripping or tearing would get way the **** above Class 25, for future reference if you find shit like ripping a metal rod or some shit in half btw.
 
A rope ain't steel or metal, ripping steel and stuff is good because they tend to have very high ultimate tensile strength per cm^2 or whatever. Even a mild steel would require a few tons of force per cm^2.
Ripping a thick rope in half is probably only Class 1+, like it's a feat, but if you want Class 50? That rope better be as thick as a person brother.
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
And that I agree with, but this comes back to my point of Del Rio's strategy of weakening Shadowman's arm so it'd be harder for Shadowman to break out, an example being here, when Del Rio severely injured Big Show's arm, which makes it easier for him lock in his submission maneuver, all the while making it harder for Show to escape due to his arm being severely injured. That being said, Del Rio is going to have to do a lot more to Shadowman that what I showed if he wants to make sure that Shadowman doesn't find ways to escape. My main point was that Del Rio doesn't just lock in the move and the person dozens of times stronger than him struggles to escape, it's that Del Rio damages the arm or his opponent enough to where it becomes a struggle to escape. That's how LS can get somewhat circumvented here.
Click to expand...
Weakening the arm may be a futile pursuit because of regen, it'd take a lot of damage to actually hurt him and he'd probably wisen up to it pretty quickly.
RandomGuy2345 said:
Going off of this, it seems Shadowman's "fighting style" is mostly barbaric in nature, relying on just overpowering his opponents and saying **** all to pain and whatever advantages they might have. Did I get that right?
Click to expand...
Uhhh, yeah. He uses dexterity if he needs to, he's really good at throwing off foes, but his default strategy is just to overpower enemies.
RandomGuy2345 said:
If true, then Del Rio can't just charge in and start fighting (though that's not mainly his style to begin with). He'll have to constantly be on the defensive initially and time his strikes correctly and makes sure he doesn't take a devastating blow, because while he does have a very strong will, it's not on the level of Shadow's. Fortunately, this does somewhat favor Del Rio, as a lot of his moves are precision based. He'll basically have to break Shadowman down, which is going to be a very tough task because...
Click to expand...
I'd say that's true.
RandomGuy2345 said:
Shadowman has an insane pain tolerance. Del Rio would have to find a way to damage beyond just breaking Shadowman's arm, which he's more than willing to do in character. I'm confident in saying that Del Rio could potentially stoop down to those levels if he gets extremely desperate, especially when he's realizes that he needs to do way more than just break an arm in order to put Shadow down. I can see Del Rio at one point in the fight just snapping and stooping down to more gruesome tactics when he starts getting desperate.
Click to expand...
Possibly, but he still has Shadowman to fight all the while and he doesn't pull his punches either. Well he does but only to not kill people, he's pretty brutal
RandomGuy2345 said:
Speaking of desperation, WWE guys, even the babyfaces, start to spam finishing moves when they realize that their opponent is one tough son of a gun (Seth Rollins vs "The Fiend" Bray Wyatt at the HIAC PPV is a prime example), so when Del Rio realizes how tough Shadowman is, he will start spamming his Superkick.
Click to expand...
I feel like if he just starts doing that he ends up becoming more predictable.
RandomGuy2345 said:
This is basically how I see it, too, adding the part where I said Del Rio starts getting desperate and spams his Superkick. The fight basically becomes a battle of wills, with Shadowman edging it out via outlasting Del Rio.
Click to expand...
So you're in agreement SM wins?
RandomGuy2345 said:
Would any of these feats of strength Mark Henry pulled off, if calc'd, would yield something >Class 25?
Click to expand...
probably not
 
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