6-C Tournament: "Journey Through The Ride of Mystery and Supernatural Power" Loser Round 1 - Match 5: Tsunayoshi Sawada vs Kamen Rider Revice

ALTERNATIVE TITLE: BOND​

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The bonds never care about limitation, it would be there even in a unexpected situation or persons, and both Tsuna and Ikki has bonded with every peoples they met in their respective journeys
Tsuna, firstly reluctant to be a mafia boss and his cowardly made him weak, however as the time went on he met the peoples that became his friends and trusted allies, believed encouraged each others, thus made him became what he became, the worthy Vongola Boss
Ikki himself has a unique relationship, he has a inner demon named Vice, at first they weren't in good relationship due of Vice nature as demon, however time passed on and they were forced to believe and trusted each others and by that time, they realized how much important their bonds are, together they are fight as one-in-two Riders alongside his family and friends to stop the mysterious entity to caused an extinction to the world

Now they are here, banished to the loser round of island annihilator tournament with respective result of their previous fight, Ikki and Vice tied with Sion and after the coinflip Sion advanced to the next round...not without Ikki and Vice courage, meanwhile Tsuna got here by overwhelmed by a girl from a magus family who has inherit the power of servant and because of that, Tsuna accepted his defeat at her hand
Right here, they met and would going to fight, however even in this fight they feel no intention to kill and murder, they feel that they might have fun here and develop a relationship between them in the battlefield
A Invitation to became a friend....via their fist, ah...harmony!

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• Ultimate Dying Will Tsuna and Giff Revival Arc Revicd are used
• Jack Revice are restricted
• Speed are equalized
• Both are in-characters
• Place located in: Shibuya Station
• 
• Starting Range: 10 Meters
• Win via anything!!
• The 10th Vongola Mafia Boss: 5 (Author, Yung, XDragnoir, Pikaman, Tetsuya)
• One-In-Two Riders: 9 (Dellinger, Nice, Ixa, Lonkitt, Myself, Noneless, Divini, Magi, Glaceon)
• Inconclusive: 0

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VS

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• BATTLE THEME 1: JAEGER​

• BATTLE THEME 2: VOLTANIC BLACK KNIGHT

• INTERMEZZO THEME: HYPER REALITY SHOW

• CLIMAX TJEME 1: READY STEADY GO!

• CLIMAX THEME 2: DEGENERATION

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Honestly just because it has smurf resistance =/= smurf, like seriously most of Chloe fatal advantage got restricted and that made he only have the tracing and other stuffs

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

So yeah i"m not going to disqualify them

 

[Tired_Author_21]

Honestly just because it has smurf resistance =/= smurf, like seriously most of Chloe fatal advantage got restricted and that made he only have the tracing and other stuffs

I know -- I'm not saying to disqualifying them like that.

I'm saying I want them to be defeated by other chars before they get to Tsuna XD.

They're already in, all is fair in love and war.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Oh thats what you mean, nvm what i said lel

Also i'm surprised @Nicetoderp still hasn't brought up any news arguments since his latest appearance here, maybe he has something to do IRL

 

[YungManzi]

Honestly just because it has smurf resistance =/= smurf, like seriously most of Chloe fatal advantage got restricted and that made he only have the tracing and other stuffs

Smurf resistances of a servant is kinda unacceptable tho. They resist like a million different abilities. Making her literally invulnerable to hax in a tourney where AP is close.

Edit:

She really shouldn't be here. Characters like her is the reason smurf resistance counts as a smurf on the strongest non-smurf list.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Again, outside from the resistances she has nothing notable specials, even some of her fatal advantage get restricted
I repeated myself again: they are not going to be disqualified and if you still insist then just leave my tournament

 

[Jackpact]

Honestly, servant resistance isn't that good, sure it shutdown a bunch of hax but basic shit is still very much usable against them, heck Ban basically isntakill all the servant on this list (bar shuten but she's a very big mistake) right off the bat and most of the tourney too (bar Jiang cause he have power null but look at him now), so really unless your chars rely on hax to do something then they all have a fair shot against most servant.

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

To beat a Servant, you need to have muscles instead of using filthy magic/technology/ etc powers like nerds

Muscle---> Everything, be Like Yujiro, not like Harry Potter

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Honestly, servant resistance isn't that good, sure it shutdown a bunch of hax but basic shit is still very much usable against them, heck Ban basically isntakill all the servant on this list (bar shuten but she's a very big mistake) right off the bat and most of the tourney too (bar Jiang cause he have power null but look at him now), so really unless your chars rely on hax to do something then they all have a fair shot against most servant.

This
Peoples overreacting a lot with servants resistances it become so annoying to deal with by us, fate supporters

To beat a Servant, you need to have muscles instead of using filthy magic/technology/ etc powers like nerds

Muscle---> Everything, be Like Yujiro, not like Harry Potter

Pretty much

 

[Pikaman]

What’s the vote count here

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

What’s the vote count here

Whatever your heart feels right

 

[Tired_Author_21]

Idk. I don't think anyone specifically voted, but from the context of the comments, I think there's like

Edit: 3-4 people voting for Tsuna(Pikaman, Me, XDragnoir and YungManzi)

and 2-3 voting for Revice (Dellinger, IxaSaga2 and Nicetoderp)

Note: This isn't me saying they 100% voted for these characters, but from context it looks like they shift to these sides between the two.

 

[Lonkitt]

Clearly I'm pretty late to the debate here. Can anyone give me a recap of the arguments on each side?

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Anyways, time for my actual arguments.

• Revice has a VERY big AP advantage. Even tho Tsuna scales above and can get stronger, Revice is already ahead of him and Revice has their own Stat Amps and RPL. An attack from Revice will deal massive amounts of damage, close to one shot range even.
• Against Mantello di Vongola Primo: Power Null is good but Revice's ice has been shown to freeze enemy projectiles (which is also a power null btw). Even if Tsuna is able to power null it, how can he be able to push the freeze blast back? His blast will never be able to overpower Revice's blasts due to both AP and LS being inferior to Revice's.
• Especially since Vice is the main defender in Volcano Rex, another thing to counter that is Vice's shield that can block that. If that shield gets petrified, then vice can just make another one to block it again.
• Against Zero Point Breakthrough: Since we've established that the two power sources cannot be equalized, Revice's abilities won't be able to be sealed. Also, it has only been claimed to MELT via Dying Will Flames. Revice will be able to outright break out of it via sheer AP and LS difference. Even if we take the absolute high end of his LS. Revice is 10x stronger than that.
• Revice's summons can be done in quick succession. The speed is equalize yes, but that doesn't mean that Revice cannot do this while fighting. Once he starts summoning, it will get harder and harder for Tsuna to deal with Revice especially since they scale directly to Revice. If he summons, Ptera, Jackal, or Eagle, it's game over. Btw ALL of his summons are large sized. They can fully block the petrification attacks from Tsuna.
• Revice's extrasensory perception will be able to see through the invisible attacks.

For Revice

 

[Lonkitt]

This
Peoples overreacting a lot with servants resistances it become so annoying to deal with by us, fate supporters

Yeah, like, it's definitely still good obviously, but it does get a bit overblown

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Do not remember it ever being done. However if it's stated that it can only be melted through Dying Will Flames and Byakuran's dragon(Who was cased in ice and didn't escape and had higher AP than tsuna at the time) couldn't get out, I wouldn't be so sure.


Thing is -- Tsuna can also spam Rugitto di Cielo, if movement is equalized and both move at the same time, why are you acting like Rugitto di Cielo is slower than his stamping? One requires more movement than the other. Rugitto Di Cielo would happen the moment Natsu opens his mouth.

To make it even more interesting is that ANY close range attacks would instantly get nullified.



Honestly doesn't matter that much. Like I said, Tsuna's most likely win-conning this out of sheer Hax.



Again... power null --- Freezing won't work because again... power null. Layering comes into question -- the fact Revice doesn't have power null resistance means he won't resist it at all, and well he'll be petrified.



It's not only the shield getting petrified lol. In KHR it's shown that the harmonizing factor will come through shields once they are petrified and start affecting the user. In the gif I showed the two elephants actually have large amounts of Rain Flames surrounding them which have a tranquilization factor which acts as a shield. Yet the Rugitto di Cielo was able to go through that and reach the guy all the way in the back.

You honestly can't argue it being overpowered here lol -- it's not a real argument to be had for two reasons:

1- Power-null through petrification, the ice would petrify, the petrification would go to Revice and he'd be incapable of moving and his powers would be negated. Which would in turn him back to civilian form.
2- Revice lacks power-null resistance at all, while Tsuna's petrification has easily 7 layers of hax.



Can't make an argument for or against that. I don't remember it ever being done before at all lol.


What makes you think size is relevant at all? Xanxus from the future who scales massively down to this Tsuna was capable of petrifying two huge Elephants with power-null rain flame shields at once. If anything being a bigger target is worse.


Lol -- you're aware every single person with flames in KHR has extrasensory perception right? Yet Soft Flames Tsuna chooses to make barely visible are capable of going unnoticed by anyone who doesn't have crazy amounts of intuition/experience or is looking closely at his gloves.

Edit: Experience fighting against flames-- which Revice doesn't have, like Gokudera who is a genius, Yamamoto whose intuition is so sharp he can guess the answer of a random complex math question purely on gut feeling and finally Lal Mirch who has a scan on her face at all times

Another thing -- I have to put into question what Revice would actually start with.

Tsuna's start purely depends on his precognition(Ultimate Intuition is more powerful than Hyper Intuition, and HI is considered to almost be Clairvoyance) so it will depend on what Revice does first.

If he tries to summon, Tsuna will use Petrification.

If he tries close combat, Tsuna will use Mantella di Primo

If he tries ranged Combat, Tsuna will use Petrification.

By the way, another thing to note -- Tsuna's Petrification won't just stop at the first layer of attacks, it will affect all other layers as well -- which is how he managed to escape Torikabuto's prison-like cube, by Harmonizing all of the grids in front of them, turning them to stone and then breaking out.

He cannot activate any other abilities as he'll be unconscious in the ice.

If he's petrified his power gets nulled too. Tsuna can do this long and close range.

By the way I re read all the scans I showed you and the funny part is that Yamamoto, Gokudera and Lal Mirch don't even see the flames l, they sense them.

Edit: due to energy not being equalized Revice has no method of actually sensing flames. Thus he wouldn't be able to see Rugitto di Cielo

For Tsuna

 

[Lonkitt]

Alright, here's my take away:

-Revice is going to make the gap harder to close over the course of the fight. The argument of Tsuna simply using Mantello di Vongola Primo in melee combat doesn't seem too reliable since Ikki and Vice wouldn't have trouble overpowering him up close. The fact that Tsuna uses so many fire based attacks is only increasing that
-I don't really see a the speed of Revi stamping vs Rugitto Di Cielo to be much use here. Both can perform those efficiently enough to where arguing who wins that quick draw isn't much help
-Energy not being equalized isn't a thing,....? His flames would still be detected by Revice though, no reason to assume otherwise
-The statement about melting the ice only through Dying Will Flames and Byakuran's Dragon isn't much use here unless we have actual comparable measurements. Lets avoid going into NLF territory here
-Tsuna's petrification is definitely a wincon and Revice is definitely capable of blocking them, so the results of that may come down to mobility. That said, Revice has some pretty good enhanced senses, so they won't be sitting ducks to any projectiles coming their way
-Revice has the means to spot weak points. Also remember that Vice has all of Barid Rex's abilities when Volcano Rex is in use, so predicting and reacting to Tsuna's attacks will be very much in his favour

Overall, I do agree that petrification, if landed successfully, will allow Tsuna to win. However, he'll have to deal with the fact that Revice has abilities that will not only give them many chances to avoid that, but make it so Tsuna has to avoid their attacks at the same time. Revice is already well above Tsuna AP wise and won't be getting any weaker, so I can see this becoming a big problem

Voting Revice

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Okay, that make 4-4-0 votes for Tsuna-Revice-Incon

 

[Tired_Author_21]

Alright, here's my take away:

-Revice is going to make the gap harder to close over the course of the fight. The argument of Tsuna simply using Mantello di Vongola Primo in melee combat doesn't seem too reliable since Ikki and Vice wouldn't have trouble overpowering him up close. The fact that Tsuna uses so many fire based attacks is only increasing that

Precog + Power-null(The cape nullifies damage) thus it's extremely reliable especially when Revice doesn't have power-null resistance.

-I don't really see a the speed of Revi stamping vs Rugitto Di Cielo to be much use here. Both can perform those efficiently enough to where arguing who wins that quick draw isn't much help

I'm pointing out that if he stamps and Tsuna uses Ruggitto di Cielo at the same time, his summons are getting turned to stone because speed is equalized... it's quite relevant since if he gets petrified he turns back into a civillian and can't do anything against Tsuna.

-Energy not being equalized isn't a thing,....? His flames would still be detected by Revice though, no reason to assume otherwise

....

Edit: Weaker flames are invisible to normal people.

Alright so Flames in KHR are invisible to normal people already unless they are of high concentration -- furthermore characters from KHR can emit invisible flames -- flames that cannot be seen with the naked eye or with extra sensory perception(Even the Varia wasn't capable of seeing Bluebell's invisible flames, and their instincts are off the chart) which have their flame properties, Lione di Cielo can emit flames like these when he uses Rugitto di Cielo.

-The statement about melting the ice only through Dying Will Flames and Byakuran's Dragon isn't much use here unless we have actual comparable measurements. Lets avoid going into NLF territory here

Sure... but his life energy is still being sealed here, and the moment he's encased in ice he will become unconscious -- so the AP statement is legitimately useless if Revice gets encased -- which I have already shown is practically instant.

-Tsuna's petrification is definitely a wincon and Revice is definitely capable of blocking them, so the results of that may come down to mobility. That said, Revice has some pretty good enhanced senses, so they won't be sitting ducks to any projectiles coming their way.

Precognition + limited Clarevoyance. Not to mention it's an AOE attack, cone shaped minimum (Managed to petrify the entirety of the Grid Tsuna was in).

And again, AOE, it's not a projectile that's easily dodgeble

-Revice has the means to spot weak points. Also remember that Vice has all of Barid Rex's abilities when Volcano Rex is in use, so predicting and reacting to Tsuna's attacks will be very much in his favour

So does Tsuna... he is capable of intuitively finding weakspots in the enemy's defence and intuitively is capable of learning mid-fight -- and that's not even Ultimate Intuition, that's Hyper Intuition.

In fact Tsuna's Precog is most likely stronger than Revice's

Overall, I do agree that petrification, if landed successfully, will allow Tsuna to win. However, he'll have to deal with the fact that Revice has abilities that will not only give them many chances to avoid that, but make it so Tsuna has to avoid their attacks at the same time. Revice is already well above Tsuna AP wise and won't be getting any weaker, so I can see this becoming a big problem

The problem is that Tsuna has way to many chances to actually petrify Revice, close comabat, ranged combat and mid-combat. Revice is never going to be safe from Petrification.

His AP is irrelevant thanks to Mantella Di Primo's power-null.

And again Rugitto di Cielo is a cone-shaped AOE attack, it's hard to avoid already.


Edit: Correcting some statements on Tsuna's part.

 

[Lonkitt]

Power null doesn't mean he can't overpower him physically and its not as if said power null lasts a long time. He's not gonna just become 10-B from that null if it manages to land. Calling his AP irrelevant is incorrect. Also remember that he has to deal with Revi and Vice. Its not just one opponent

Revice can dodge a good amount of wide spreading and AOE projectiles to begin with, so thats nothing new. Even if its cone shaped

Saying that Revice will never be safe from the petrification isn't giving him enough credit. The fact that the two can dodge as much as they can on a daily basis, as well as have the means to safely block it proves that they won't be easy targets

Not sure I understand your flame argument here....Revice is gonna see the flames, idk what you're trying to say

 

[Tired_Author_21]

Power null doesn't mean he can't overpower him physically and its not as if said power null lasts a long time. He's not gonna just become 10-B from that null if it manages to land. Calling his AP irrelevant is incorrect. Also remember that he has to deal with Revi and Vice. Its not just one opponent

Thing is, the moment any of the two touches the cape they will to stone and have their powers nulled. Thus there's no need for Tsuna to compete Physically.

Revice can dodge a good amount of wide spreading and AOE projectiles to begin with, so thats nothing new. Even if its cone shaped

Saying that Revice will never be safe from the petrification isn't giving him enough credit. The fact that the two can dodge as much as they can on a daily basis, as well as have the means to safely block it proves that they won't be easy targets

But legit he'll never be safe from petrification. Tsuna can use it long range, close range and can seal him short range as well.

Not sure I understand your flame argument here....Revice is gonna see the flames, idk what you're trying to say

If they are invisible then no... he's not gonna see the flames. Especially since energies aren't equalized and he doesn't have a method to see/sense them. Like the Varia who have extra-sensory perception couldn't see Bluebell's invisible flames. Or like Yamamoto's extremely powerful instinct and extrasensory perception didn't pick up on Zakuro's invisible storm flames.

Edit: to be able to sense them he would have to be able to sense the life force of another being.

 

[Lonkitt]

I understand what you're saying about the range, but Revice is very acrobatic and mobile, including with projectile dodging. I don't think the argument of the attack having a wide range is really enough here. Plus, remember that the two can tag team

There's no such thing as energy equalization also, that's not something on the wiki

 

[Tired_Author_21]

I understand what you're saying about the range, but Revice is very acrobatic and mobile, including with projectile dodging. I don't think the argument of the attack having a wide range is really enough here. Plus, remember that the two can tag team

Tsuna can also move and is acrobatic? But sorry it's honestly very unlikely he dodges something he can't see or sense.

If he attacks Tsuna, then he gets petrified.
If he stands back, he has a decent chance of getting petrified. Especially since Tsuna can predict his movements via Ultimate Intuition which is precognition bordering clairvoyance.

There's no such thing as energy equalization also, that's not something on the wiki

Energy Equalizing is the fact they can be compared to one another. Flames in KHR are life force energy, they aren't the same as the energy used in Kamen Rider... it's been a condition from the start of this debate and several others.

 

[Tired_Author_21]

I understand what you're saying about the range, but Revice is very acrobatic and mobile, including with projectile dodging. I don't think the argument of the attack having a wide range is really enough here. Plus, remember that the two can tag team

There's no such thing as energy equalization also, that's not something on the wiki

Btw if energies are equalized then Revice is in an even bigger of a disadvantage because any long-range attacks or energy attacks he might've had are useless as well since Tsuna can absorb them, add their power to his own, and nullify all damage that would've been done. Not to mention it also means Revice's powers would get sealed inside the ice and Tsuna would only have to briefly touch his belt.

Edit: It also means that Vice would get absorbed and would most likely disappear forever like what happened to Ghost.

 

[Tired_Author_21]

If you need a scan on the Invisible f lames, here it is:

All characters which got trapped have Extra Sensory perception btw.

Here is Tsuna Absorbing Ghost someone made of pure Dying Will flames(Dense Life Force energy)

 

[Tired_Author_21]

Anyway it's getting late for me. Any more points made I will only be able to address tomorrow.

 

[Tired_Author_21]

As a last comment.

Revice has to come to close range because at long range Tsuna will nullify all of his attacks. Not to mention the danger of Revice getting hit by petrification and instantly losing.

But if Revice comes close then Tsuna just uses Mantella di Primo and Revice turns to stone, nullifying his equipment and turning him into a civillian.

Furthermore with the touch of his hand Revice will almost instantly get encased in ice and lose consciessness, making him loose the match.

Not to mention that Tsuna has most likely better pre-cognition hax than Revice(almost clarevoyance and that is boosted with Ultimate Intuition). Which means Tsuna will be able to predict all his movements, which means more chances to hit Revice from long range and an advantage when reacting to him coming close range.

Edit: which are already hard to dodge since Tsuna can make his Rugitto di Cielo invisible because box weapons can release invisible flames with their attribute like Yamamoto's swallow in his second fight against Genkichi, Bluebell, Zakuro, Future Ryohei(his gloves have invisible sun flames) and Squalo(vs Zakuro he uses invisible flames).

 

[XDragnoir]

There's no such thing as energy equalization also, that's not something on the wiki

...

What? That's literally just another name for verse equalization, which 95% of the time is used to equalize the energies.

 

[Tired_Author_21]

I understand what you're saying about the range, but Revice is very acrobatic and mobile, including with projectile dodging. I don't think the argument of the attack having a wide range is really enough here. Plus, remember that the two can tag team

There's no such thing as energy equalization also, that's not something on the wiki

Again, if they touch Tsuna's Mantella di Primo = instant loss for both via Petrification.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Bump!!

 

[IxaSaga2]

You are forgetting the fact that Revice is two people with summons. If Revi gets unconsious, Vice can break him out with his attacks and vice versa. If both of them gets encased then the summons can break them out.

Again, if they touch Tsuna's Mantella di Primo = instant loss for both via Petrification.

And if Revice lands any shot at all, they will one shot Tsuna. Remember this is about a 10.83x AP gap. Both upscale and Revice has RPL. The gap might even be bigger. What chances are you going to take? Any shot from Revice's overloaded kit or one technique from Tsuna? I'll let the others decide on that.

The reason why I point out large sized summons is because they can act as shields for Revice, Making them even harder to hit.

Also the nullification part can only do so much when Revice is able to be in one shot range with multiple summons. The summons that can be meat shields. In the end if Revice thinks its a hard match up, they will summon all of them which will essentially make it a 12 v 1. All of the 12 being in one shot range, 3 of them having a 50x speed difference.

 

[Tired_Author_21]

You are forgetting the fact that Revice is two people with summons. If Revi gets unconsious, Vice can break him out with his attacks and vice versa. If both of them gets encased then the summons can break them out.

Their life force is sealed, not to mention as stated many times, Zero Point Breakthrough Ice can only be melted by Dying Will flames.

There's also the fact that Revi's transformation will be undone after he's knocked unconscious and his life force is sealed, thus Vice is also de-transformed.

Edit: That's not even the most threatening thing at all. Petrification is Revi's main enemy here, and this is just a side option Tsuna has.

And if Revice lands any shot at all, they will one shot Tsuna. Remember this is about a 10.83x AP gap. Both upscale and Revice has RPL. The gap might even be bigger. What chances are you going to take? Any shot from Revice's overloaded kit or one technique from Tsuna? I'll let the others decide on that.

Again, if they hit Tsuna's Mantella di Cielo, they lose via power-null + petrification.

The reason why I point out large sized summons is because they can act as shields for Revice, Making them even harder to hit.

Again... irrelevant, the sky flames won't stop at them, they will go through them, petrify them and whatever is behind them, like what happened to the elephants and Xanxus. Their size, shape or form is irrelevant.

Also the nullification part can only do so much when Revice is able to be in one shot range with multiple summons. The summons that can be meat shields. In the end if Revice thinks its a hard match up, they will summon all of them which will essentially make it a 12 v 1. All of the 12 being in one shot range, 3 of them having a 50x speed difference.

Precognition+Clarevoyance. Summoning is irrelevant because of what I stated once again.
Speed starts out equalized, so if he summons something Tsuna 100% has the chance of petrifying it, stop acting like Tsuna will stand still as Revice stamps and summons. Tsuna will know the moment the match starts to use Rugitto di Cielo, thus petrification will be a danger for Revice, at best his summons are petrified and he isn't. There's not even a method of blocking these flames, because as I mentioned Tsuna can make his flames 100% invisible to the eye, and this is capable of tricking even people with extra-sensory perception... as I've stated and shown through scans. And they would go through the summons.

 

[Pikaman]

Yeah in a situation where both characters can win in one move the one with precog will probably take it most times

 

[IxaSaga2]

Yeah in a situation where both characters can win in one move the one with precog will probably take it most times

Both of them has precog tho.

 

[Tired_Author_21]

Both of them has precog tho.

Which is why I keep asking how many layers Revi has of precog.

Also Tsuna's precog isn't just precog. It's also limited Clarevoyance and danger-sense.

Edit: This version of Tsuna's precog and Clairvoyance is from his Hyper Intuition which is further boosted by his Ultimate intuition.

 

[Tired_Author_21]

Ultimate Intuition >> Hyper Intuition (Cursed Rainbow Arc) > Hyper Intuition(Succession Arc) > Hyper Intuition(Mid-Future Arc Arcobaleno Trials) > Hyper Intuition (Beginning of Future Arc) > Hyper Intuition (Varia Arc) > Xanxus’ Hyper Intuition (Varia Arc) > Base Tsuna Intuition (Mid-Future Arc Vongola Primo Trials, was capable of working even after Primo’s interference) > Hyper Intuition (Kokuyo Land) > Base Tsuna Intuition(post Kokuyo land).

Ultimate Intuition should have at least 10 Layers to it.

The reason why each arc adds another layer is because his intuition gets stronger after every fight/arc.

 

[IxaSaga2]

Which is why I keep asking how many layers Revi has of precog.

Also Tsuna's precog isn't just precog. It's also limited Clarevoyance and danger-sense.

The form debut in the previous arc. Revice should have a whole scaling chain of people beating out Revice's precog and Revice then learning and beating them back.

And Revice's has Info analysis and enhanced senses to go with his precog. Also, It also doesn't work on those with artificial intelligence. Revice's precog and moves are done with a data collecting device in the background.

Revice's summons are constructs summoned by his belt which is has artificial intelligence.

 

[Tired_Author_21]

The form debut in the previous arc. Revice should have a whole scaling chain of people beating out Revice's precog and Revice then learning and beating them back.

If we're going by "beating" precog we're gonna have a much longer chain for Tsuna... because there's a LOT of illusionists that are capable of beating his precognition with illusions which he manages to then improve his intuition later on to beat.

Edit: I only used people with precognition in Tsuna's chain, but if we're going by beating precog, then I can increase the number... just know it'll most likely be over 14-15 layers.

And Revice's has Info analysis and enhanced senses to go with his precog. Also, It also doesn't work on those with artificial intelligence. Revice's precog and moves are done with a data collecting device.

Ok?
Don't understand your point here.
His Enhanced senses aren't helping him against Tsuna's invisible Rugitto di Cielo because as stated, it's been able to fool people with extra-sensory perception and enhanced senses. The fact it works with data is actually a huge dissadvantage seeing as Revice should have 0 data on Tsuna, his attacks, flames or how his techniques work.

Edit: He won't be able to predict Rugitto di Cielo since it doesn't require Tsuna to move from his spot at all. It involves Natsu roaring, not only are invisible flames also invisible to machines (unless Revice has flame detectors which he 100% doesn't have since energies aren't equalized) since they are well... invisible, but there would be 0 reasons for it to warn Revice of a roar... which means there's no arguments for Revice dodging the petrification now...

Revice's summons are constructs summoned by his belt which is has artificial intelligence.

Which is a huge flaw, because the moment his and his belt's life force is sealed or power-nulled it won't work.

 

[IxaSaga2]

If we're going by "beating" precog we're gonna have a much longer chain for Tsuna... because there's a LOT of illusionists that are capable of beating his precognition with illusions which he manages to then improve his intuition later on to beat.

Edit: I only used people with precognition in Tsuna's chain, but if we're going by beating precog, then I can increase the number... just know it'll most likely be over 14-15 layers.

Ok?
Don't understand your point here.
His Enhanced senses aren't helping him against Tsuna's invisible Rugitto di Cielo because as stated, it's been able to fool people with extra-sensory perception and enhanced senses. The fact it works with data is actually a huge dissadvantage seeing as Revice should have 0 data on Tsuna, his attacks, flames or how his techniques work.

Which is a huge flaw, because the moment his and his belt's life force is sealed or power-nulled it won't work.

That doesn't tell me how he can precog through artifial intelligence, a weakness that is stated in the description of the precog. Revice's precog is done via technology. Doesn't matter the scaling chain when the description of the ability literally states "It also doesn't work on those with artificial intelligence."

Edit: The things he summons are AI because they are constructs made by Revice via technology.

 

[Tired_Author_21]

That doesn't tell me how he can precog through artifial intelligence, a weakness that is stated in the description of the precog. Revice's precog is done via technology. Doesn't matter the scaling chain when the description of the ability literally states "It also doesn't work on those with artificial intelligence."

This isn't Hyper Intuition anymore

It's Ultimate Intuition.

Also that's false equivalence since Revice isn't a robot.

Edit: He can't sense what the AI will tell Revice to do next -- but he can most certainly know what Revice himself will do next, because he is not a robot.

Edit2: This is important because Ultimate Intuition is much stronger than Hyper Intuition.

• Ultimate Vongola Intuition: This form of Vongola Intuition is an enhanced version. Like regular Vongola Intuition, ones with Vongola blood can see opponents move but with quicker reaction times, allowing the user to take in his surroundings more. With this, the user can dodge short warps and strike at the opportune moment.

• Short Warp: Bermuda can use teleportation abilities to instantly warp short distances. This technique is used to move behind enemies or dodge their attacks. This can also be used to warp a portion of the user's body (i.e. hands or feet) allowing them to attack from different directions or hit a target outside his attack range.

I'll post the wiki links themselves if you want to check out the descriptions.

Bermuda von Veckenschtein

Bermuda von Veckenschtein, also known as "The Arcobaleno Of Vindice", is a baby Vindice possessing the Clear Arcobaleno Pacifier. He was the strongest Arcobaleno during his generation of Arcobaleno. He is the primary antagonist of the Curse of the Rainbow Arc and the final antagonist of the...

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Tsunayoshi Sawada (Post Future Arc)

The main protagonist of Katekyo Hitman Reborn!. At first Tsuna is a cowardly and useless junior high student known as "No Good Tsuna" because of his poor grades, wimpy attitude, and a lack of athleticism. Then a baby hitman called Reborn appears one day to train Tsunayoshi to become a mafia...

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