6-C Tournament: "Journey Through The Ride of Mystery and Supernatural Power" Loser Round 1 - Match 5: Tsunayoshi Sawada vs Kamen Rider Revice

ALTERNATIVE TITLE: BOND​

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The bonds never care about limitation, it would be there even in a unexpected situation or persons, and both Tsuna and Ikki has bonded with every peoples they met in their respective journeys
Tsuna, firstly reluctant to be a mafia boss and his cowardly made him weak, however as the time went on he met the peoples that became his friends and trusted allies, believed encouraged each others, thus made him became what he became, the worthy Vongola Boss
Ikki himself has a unique relationship, he has a inner demon named Vice, at first they weren't in good relationship due of Vice nature as demon, however time passed on and they were forced to believe and trusted each others and by that time, they realized how much important their bonds are, together they are fight as one-in-two Riders alongside his family and friends to stop the mysterious entity to caused an extinction to the world

Now they are here, banished to the loser round of island annihilator tournament with respective result of their previous fight, Ikki and Vice tied with Sion and after the coinflip Sion advanced to the next round...not without Ikki and Vice courage, meanwhile Tsuna got here by overwhelmed by a girl from a magus family who has inherit the power of servant and because of that, Tsuna accepted his defeat at her hand
Right here, they met and would going to fight, however even in this fight they feel no intention to kill and murder, they feel that they might have fun here and develop a relationship between them in the battlefield
A Invitation to became a friend....via their fist, ah...harmony!

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• Ultimate Dying Will Tsuna and Giff Revival Arc Revicd are used
• Jack Revice are restricted
• Speed are equalized
• Both are in-characters
• Place located in: Shibuya Station
• 
• Starting Range: 10 Meters
• Win via anything!!
• The 10th Vongola Mafia Boss: 5 (Author, Yung, XDragnoir, Pikaman, Tetsuya)
• One-In-Two Riders: 9 (Dellinger, Nice, Ixa, Lonkitt, Myself, Noneless, Divini, Magi, Glaceon)
• Inconclusive: 0

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VS

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• BATTLE THEME 1: JAEGER​

• BATTLE THEME 2: VOLTANIC BLACK KNIGHT

• INTERMEZZO THEME: HYPER REALITY SHOW

• CLIMAX TJEME 1: READY STEADY GO!

• CLIMAX THEME 2: DEGENERATION

 

[Tired_Author_21]

nope, Revice has naturally higher speed than Tsuna.

True, he does have naturally higher speed than Tsuna. But Tsuna's most likely going to be using his Vongola Gear, which will be boosting his speed significantly.

Wait let me ask something first. How hot and cold is Tsuna's fire and ice?

Edit: I added the scan for ZPB FE

How cold the ice is irrelevant because if Revice gets touched by it his abilities are sealed, and the ice canonically can only be melted by Dying Will Flames.

As for his Flames -- due to precognition, he's unlikely to use them against Revice and he can control their temperature and intensity.

 

[Tired_Author_21]

Hmmm, i'll let Author answer this

Does Tsuna get Oath flames?

I've been assuming he doesn't

Simon rings aren't in his standard equipment after all.

 

[IxaSaga2]

True, he does have naturally higher speed than Tsuna. But Tsuna's most likely going to be using his Vongola Gear, which will be boosting his speed significantly.


How cold the ice is irrelevant because if Revice gets touched by it his abilities are sealed, and the ice canonically can only be melted by Dying Will Flames.

As for his Flames -- due to precognition, he's unlikely to use them against Revice and he can control their temperature and intensity.

It is very relevant here.

1. It is able to be melted by "strong Dying Will Flames"
2. I just looks like it's sealing via encasing the enemy in ice.

 

[Tired_Author_21]

It is very relevant here.

1. It is able to be melted by "strong Dying Will Flames"
2. I just looks like it's sealing via encasing the enemy in ice.

Again -- it's canonic to the series -- it seals all the enemy's abilities, and it can only be melted by strong dying will flames... not any general kind of flame. This is the case because the Ice is the complete reverse of the dying will flame which is accessed when Tsuna goes into "Minus" mode.

Edit: The scan is quite specific, it states: "Because the only way to melt the zero point breakthrough first edition... is to use Dying Will Flames"
Once the person has ice on their body they are incapable of utilizing their abilities through whatever part has been touched. Xanxus was incapable of using his flames through his hands when they were frozen for example.

Edit2: It doesn't help that the moment Revice touches the ice most of his body will be encased in ice -- since it freezes unnaturally(From parts that weren't touched by the person's body)

 

[Tired_Author_21]

nope, Revice has naturally higher speed than Tsuna.


Wait let me ask something first. How hot and cold is Tsuna's fire and ice?

Also wait... natural speed is irrelevant here because speed is equalized... so... this statement only works if you were talking about Revice's speed amps...


Edit: Checked the manga chapters, and although ZPB ice only seals the abilities of Dying Will Flames it's still a complete win-con for Tsuna, since Revice can't melt them and if they get to his stamps he can't use them.

The most solid Win-con continues being petrification, however.

 

[IxaSaga2]

Again -- it's canonic to the series -- it seals all the enemy's abilities, and it can only be melted by strong dying will flames... not any general kind of flame. This is the case because the Ice is the complete reverse of the dying will flame which is accessed when Tsuna goes into "Minus" mode.

pretty sure Revice's flames are not regular either.

Also wait... natural speed is irrelevant here because speed is equalized... so... this statement only works if you were talking about Revice's speed amps...

Which is what I'm talking about regarding Ptera, Jackal, and Eagle Genomixes. Also Velox, Barid Rex can summon Jackal so Jackal isn't out of the question.

And this is not a mismatch, I thought the petrification was something else, mb.

Before I start to make my arguments, What's the AP values for both? Also, expect my argument to come later. I'm kinda busy rn.

 

[Tired_Author_21]

pretty sure Revice's flames are not regular either.

Does not matter -- due to Energy not being Equalized it cannot melt through the ice.

Edit: if you are capable of Equalizing them that means every time Revice uses an energy attack Tsuna's getting an Amp due to Zero Point Breakthrough Revised and that all of Revice's abilities are sealed once he is encased in ice -- it's honestly a much worse scenario for Revice.

Which is what I'm talking about regarding Ptera, Jackal, and Eagle Genomixes. Also Velox, Barid Rex can summon Jackal so Jackal isn't out of the question.

These have to be summoned -- if Tsuna starts with petrification they can't be

And this is not a mismatch, I thought the petrification was something else, mb.

Petrification will nullify the power through the Sky flame's attribute of harmonization, so you were actually right on the fact they would stop transforming.

Before I start to make my arguments, What's the AP values for both? Also, expect my argument to come later. I'm kinda busy rn.

No clue, but Tsuna's always had an AP disadvantage -- gimmicks are what usually make KHR characters win.

 

[Tired_Author_21]

It's late so I'll be going to sleep, I'll reply to anything else done tomorrow.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Before I start to make my arguments, What's the AP values for both? Also, expect my argument to come later. I'm kinda busy rn.

Ultimate Dying Will Tsuna is very way above 6+ GT, Revice in this key are superior to 24 GT, 65 GT with Volcano Rex

 

[IxaSaga2]

Does not matter -- due to Energy not being Equalized it cannot melt through the ice.

But then again, the description of the ability says it can seal away Dying Will Flames. Can that really seal away Revice's abilities here then?

Edit: if you are capable of Equalizing them that means every time Revice uses an energy attack Tsuna's getting an Amp due to Zero Point Breakthrough Revised and that all of Revice's abilities are sealed once he is encased in ice -- it's honestly a much worse scenario for Revice.

These have to be summoned -- if Tsuna starts with petrification they can't be

Petrification will nullify the power through the Sky flame's attribute of harmonization, so you were actually right on the fact they would stop transforming.

No clue, but Tsuna's always had an AP disadvantage -- gimmicks are what usually make KHR characters win.

Revice has multiple ways to stop this. way to stop the pertification. If I'm not wrong, the attack is basically a cone shaped ranged attack. What stops Revice from freezing the attack with his ice manip?

Ultimate Dying Will Tsuna is very way above 6+ GT, Revice in this key are superior to 24 GT, 65 GT with Volcano Rex

oh wow. this is very bad for Tsuna.

 

[Tired_Author_21]

But then again, the description of the ability says it can seal away Dying Will Flames. Can that really seal away Revice's abilities here then?

Revice has multiple ways to stop this. way to stop the pertification. If I'm not wrong, the attack is basically a cone shaped ranged attack. What stops Revice from freezing the attack with his ice manip?


oh wow. this is very bad for Tsuna.

Already explained all of this on the post above

 

[Tired_Author_21]

Already explained all of this on the post above

He actually doesn't have a method of stopping an invisible attack(again soft Dying Will Flames are invisible to regular people and soft flames are hard to see even to people who utilize flames)

Secondly if Revice is stuck in ice he can't break out of -- which he can't. Then it's over.


Again petrification would just null his abilities, they're starting relatively close and it's a cone shaped attack with decent amounts of range. Not to mention if Revice hits Tsuna with Mantella di Primo he's also getting power nulled.

 

[Tired_Author_21]

Revice has multiple ways to stop this. way to stop the pertification. If I'm not wrong, the attack is basically a cone shaped ranged attack. What stops Revice from freezing the attack with his ice manip?


oh wow. this is very bad for Tsuna.

The fact he cannot see it... Or the fact that due to its more layered power-null Revice would just get his ice attack nullified and then get petrified (Nats can control petrification) thus his belt gets power-nulled and he turns back to civillian form.

 

[IxaSaga2]

The fact he cannot see it... Or the fact that due to its more layered power-null Revice would just get his ice attack nullified and then get petrified (Nats can control petrification) thus his belt gets power-nulled and he turns back to civillian form.

Revice can see it. They are able to see demons which is severally layers above invisible beings. Touma/Kamen Rider Saber is able to see a person move in a spcae that exists outside time and space but couldn't see a demon.

Unless I'm missing something. The ice only states to seal Dying Will Flames, not the energy Revice has. Edit: Oh, it's the ability of the armor xD.

 

[Tired_Author_21]

Revice can see it. They are able to see demons which is severally layers above invisible beings. Touma/Kamen Rider Saber is able to see a person move in a spcae that exists outside time and space but couldn't see a demon.

Unless I'm missing something. The ice only states to seal Dying Will Flames, not the energy Revice has.

You are... Though it seals Dying will flames... It also can only be broken by dying will flames. You cant have it both ways dude. Either energy is equalized and Tsuna seals his abilities with the ice but he has the capacity of breaking free with his own energy. Or energy isn't equalized and he can't break through the ice but his abilities aren't sealed.

Then manga panel I showed you stated this rule already. Idk why you're going past it. The fact it states only dying will flames can melt it... Means that only dying will flames can melt it.

Him being able to see demons is cool and all but if Rugitto did Cielo hits he is still having his power nullified.

Also though he starts in his strongest form, to summon or Change forms he has to take his stamp(at equalized speed mind you) and stamp on his belt, which then triggers the transformation/summoning. Since speed is equalized Tsuna should be able to react to this easily and use Rugitto did Cielo.

 

[Tired_Author_21]

Anyway it's late for me, any more arguments will be seen by me tomorrow

 

[IxaSaga2]

You are... Though it seals Dying will flames... It also can only be broken by dying will flames. You cant have it both ways dude. Either energy is equalized and Tsuna seals his abilities with the ice but he has the capacity of breaking free with his own energy. Or energy isn't equalized and he can't break through the ice but his abilities aren't sealed.

Then manga panel I showed you stated this rule already. Idk why you're going past it. The fact it states only dying will flames can melt it... Means that only dying will flames can melt it.

Yea, it only states that it cannot be melted. I never said anything about melting it. What about if it is broken by sheer force? Both Revice's AP and LS is far higher than than Tsuna's.

Him being able to see demons is cool and all but if Rugitto did Cielo hits he is still having his power nullified.

Also though he starts in his strongest form, to summon or Change forms he has to take his stamp(at equalized speed mind you) and stamp on his belt, which then triggers the transformation/summoning. Since speed is equalized Tsuna should be able to react to this easily and use Rugitto did Cielo.

He wouldn't need to change form if he's already in Volcano Rex. Using stamps for summoning and abilities, yea, but that takes so little effort that Revice is able to spam them against people would are equal his speed.

 

[IxaSaga2]

Anyways, time for my actual arguments.

• Revice has a VERY big AP advantage. Even tho Tsuna scales above and can get stronger, Revice is already ahead of him and Revice has their own Stat Amps and RPL. An attack from Revice will deal massive amounts of damage, close to one shot range even.
• Against Mantello di Vongola Primo: Power Null is good but Revice's ice has been shown to freeze enemy projectiles (which is also a power null btw). Even if Tsuna is able to power null it, how can he be able to push the freeze blast back? His blast will never be able to overpower Revice's blasts due to both AP and LS being inferior to Revice's.
• Especially since Vice is the main defender in Volcano Rex, another thing to counter that is Vice's shield that can block that. If that shield gets petrified, then vice can just make another one to block it again.
• Against Zero Point Breakthrough: Since we've established that the two power sources cannot be equalized, Revice's abilities won't be able to be sealed. Also, it has only been claimed to MELT via Dying Will Flames. Revice will be able to outright break out of it via sheer AP and LS difference. Even if we take the absolute high end of his LS. Revice is 10x stronger than that.
• Revice's summons can be done in quick succession. The speed is equalize yes, but that doesn't mean that Revice cannot do this while fighting. Once he starts summoning, it will get harder and harder for Tsuna to deal with Revice especially since they scale directly to Revice. If he summons, Ptera, Jackal, or Eagle, it's game over. Btw ALL of his summons are large sized. They can fully block the petrification attacks from Tsuna.
• Revice's extrasensory perception will be able to see through the invisible attacks.

 

[Tired_Author_21]

Yea, it only states that it cannot be melted. I never said anything about melting it. What about if it is broken by sheer force? Both Revice's AP and LS is far higher than than Tsuna's.

Do not remember it ever being done. However if it's stated that it can only be melted through Dying Will Flames and Byakuran's dragon(Who was cased in ice and didn't escape and had higher AP than tsuna at the time) couldn't get out, I wouldn't be so sure.

He wouldn't need to change form if he's already in Volcano Rex. Using stamps for summoning and abilities, yea, but that takes so little effort that Revice is able to spam them against people would are equal his speed.

Thing is -- Tsuna can also spam Rugitto di Cielo, if movement is equalized and both move at the same time, why are you acting like Rugitto di Cielo is slower than his stamping? One requires more movement than the other. Rugitto Di Cielo would happen the moment Natsu opens his mouth.

To make it even more interesting is that ANY close range attacks would instantly get nullified.

Anyways, time for my actual arguments.

• Revice has a VERY big AP advantage. Even tho Tsuna scales above and can get stronger, Revice is already ahead of him and Revice has their own Stat Amps and RPL. An attack from Revice will deal massive amounts of damage, close to one shot range even.

Honestly doesn't matter that much. Like I said, Tsuna's most likely win-conning this out of sheer Hax.

• Against Mantello di Vongola Primo: Power Null is good but Revice's ice has been shown to freeze enemy projectiles (which is also a power null btw). Even if Tsuna is able to power null it, how can he be able to push the freeze blast back? His blast will never be able to overpower Revice's blasts due to both AP and LS being inferior to Revice's.

Again... power null --- Freezing won't work because again... power null. Layering comes into question -- the fact Revice doesn't have power null resistance means he won't resist it at all, and well he'll be petrified.

• Especially since Vice is the main defender in Volcano Rex, another thing to counter that is Vice's shield that can block that. If that shield gets petrified, then vice can just make another one to block it again.

It's not only the shield getting petrified lol. In KHR it's shown that the harmonizing factor will come through shields once they are petrified and start affecting the user. In the gif I showed the two elephants actually have large amounts of Rain Flames surrounding them which have a tranquilization factor which acts as a shield. Yet the Rugitto di Cielo was able to go through that and reach the guy all the way in the back.

You honestly can't argue it being overpowered here lol -- it's not a real argument to be had for two reasons:

1- Power-null through petrification, the ice would petrify, the petrification would go to Revice and he'd be incapable of moving and his powers would be negated. Which would in turn him back to civilian form.
2- Revice lacks power-null resistance at all, while Tsuna's petrification has easily 7 layers of hax.

• Against Zero Point Breakthrough: Since we've established that the two power sources cannot be equalized, Revice's abilities won't be able to be sealed. Also, it has only been claimed to MELT via Dying Will Flames. Revice will be able to outright break out of it via sheer AP and LS difference. Even if we take the absolute high end of his LS. Revice is 10x stronger than that.

Can't make an argument for or against that. I don't remember it ever being done before at all lol.

• Revice's summons can be done in quick succession. The speed is equalize yes, but that doesn't mean that Revice cannot do this while fighting. Once he starts summoning, it will get harder and harder for Tsuna to deal with Revice especially since they scale directly to Revice. If he summons, Ptera, Jackal, or Eagle, it's game over. Btw ALL of his summons are large sized. They can fully block the petrification attacks from Tsuna.

What makes you think size is relevant at all? Xanxus from the future who scales massively down to this Tsuna was capable of petrifying two huge Elephants with power-null rain flame shields at once. If anything being a bigger target is worse.

• Revice's extrasensory perception will be able to see through the invisible attacks.

Lol -- you're aware every single person with flames in KHR has extrasensory perception right? Yet Soft Flames Tsuna chooses to make barely visible are capable of going unnoticed by anyone who doesn't have crazy amounts of intuition/experience or is looking closely at his gloves.

Edit: Experience fighting against flames-- which Revice doesn't have, like Gokudera who is a genius, Yamamoto whose intuition is so sharp he can guess the answer of a random complex math question purely on gut feeling and finally Lal Mirch who has a scan on her face at all times

 

[Tired_Author_21]

Anyways, time for my actual arguments.

• Revice's summons can be done in quick succession. The speed is equalize yes, but that doesn't mean that Revice cannot do this while fighting. Once he starts summoning, it will get harder and harder for Tsuna to deal with Revice especially since they scale directly to Revice. If he summons, Ptera, Jackal, or Eagle, it's game over. Btw ALL of his summons are large sized. They can fully block the petrification attacks from Tsuna.

Another thing -- I have to put into question what Revice would actually start with.

Tsuna's start purely depends on his precognition(Ultimate Intuition is more powerful than Hyper Intuition, and HI is considered to almost be Clairvoyance) so it will depend on what Revice does first.

If he tries to summon, Tsuna will use Petrification.

If he tries close combat, Tsuna will use Mantella di Primo

If he tries ranged Combat, Tsuna will use Petrification.

By the way, another thing to note -- Tsuna's Petrification won't just stop at the first layer of attacks, it will affect all other layers as well -- which is how he managed to escape Torikabuto's prison-like cube, by Harmonizing all of the grids in front of them, turning them to stone and then breaking out.

 

[Tired_Author_21]

The moment that belt is petrified it's over for Revice -- and Tsuna just has too many methods to petrify it.

IF and that's a big IF Revice ends up Summoning whatever he needs to summon while Ruggitto di Cielo is happening (Which it will have to be happening since he would have to have summoned them before it reached him somehow) then the summons will get petrified and become useless. They will get power-nulled, not to mention the Harmonization would go to Revice if he doesn't somehow escape the flame.

IF and again, big IF Rugitto di Cielo fails because somehow Revice managed to dodge it, Tsuna will use Mantella di Primo and simply cover himself with it until Revice attacks -- which would turn him to stone and power-null him.

Revice getting petrified is a very likely scenario here.

 

[XDragnoir]

Yea, it only states that it cannot be melted. I never said anything about melting it. What about if it is broken by sheer force? Both Revice's AP and LS is far higher than than Tsuna's.

I am sure he wouldn't be able to do anything with his life force sealed away, as that's what DWF are and what ZPB seals/freezes.

 

[Tired_Author_21]

I am sure he wouldn't be able to do anything with his life force sealed away, as that's what DWF are and what ZPB seals/freezes.

Also true...

 

[Tired_Author_21]

There's also the fact that the moment Revice gets completely frozen he will be unconscious and won't know what's happening outside.

It's stated 10 years passed in the blink of the eye for Xanxus who was trapped inside

 

[Pikaman]

Yeah looks like Tsuna takes this based on the arguments here

 

[Dellinger]

Revice have multiple forms to use.
What can he do against Barid Rex abilities?

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Revice have multiple forms to use

It's already been brought up and Tsuna can deal with it

 

[YungManzi]

You can't just break out of ZPB FE; it literally seals your lifeforce energy and renders you unconscious when fully encased; and that's how it's portrayed against people with DWF, DWF being something that naturally can resist the ice.

 

[Dellinger]

When Jack Revice activated a finisher he turn into a black liquid and attack deadmans from behind
Can he counter that?

 

[Tired_Author_21]

When Jack Revice activated a finisher he turn into a black liquid and attack deadmans from behind
Can he counter that?

He cannot activate any other abilities as he'll be unconscious in the ice.

If he's petrified his power gets nulled too. Tsuna can do this long and close range.

By the way I re read all the scans I showed you and the funny part is that Yamamoto, Gokudera and Lal Mirch don't even see the flames l, they sense them.

Edit: due to energy not being equalized Revice has no method of actually sensing flames. Thus he wouldn't be able to see Rugitto di Cielo

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

When Jack Revice activated a finisher he turn into a black liquid and attack deadmans from behind
Can he counter that?

Jack Revice is restricted, it's literally a High 6-C Form

 

[Tired_Author_21]

When Jack Revice activated a finisher he turn into a black liquid and attack deadmans from behind
Can he counter that?

Jack is restricted iirc

 

[Dellinger]

How about Barid rex destroy Deadman base feats

 

[Tired_Author_21]

How about Barid rex destroy Deadman base feats

If Tsuna starts with petrification there's not even a fight here. Adding mode changes to the middle of the battle is a bad idea for Revice in this case since it gives Tsuna more chances to use Rugitto di Cielo to power null his belt/stamps.

 

[Dellinger]

Tsuna's sealing will seal all of Vice's abilities, and like I stated, Tsuna can interact with non-physical beings so it's 100% likely if he seals Vice he's not getting out of the Ice.

Edit: (Like I mentioned Daemon's Soul, but there's also Ghost who is completely made of Flames)

Can Tsuna touch non-physical beings

 

[Tired_Author_21]

Can Tsuna touch non-physical beings

Yes...

He touched Daemon(a soul)
And interacted(absorbed) Ghost, a being made of high density energy and was completely intangible.

Edit: There's also the time where he interacted with Primo -- technically a ghost/spirit trapped inside the Vongola Ring

 

[Tired_Author_21]

Can Tsuna touch non-physical beings

If you read up my first or second post is has a lot of the points still being discussed here

 

[Tired_Author_21]

Btw kinda dissapointed in myself in the Chloe fight, because Tsuna has been able to absorb physical constructs made from energy before and I forgot about it R I P.

 

[Pikaman]

Welp you can rock the loser’s bracket now I guess you might be lucky enough to get a rematch

 

[Tired_Author_21]

Welp you can rock the loser’s bracket now I guess you might be lucky enough to get a rematch

I'd rather smurfs be disqualified before-hand.

The only thing Tsuna had against Chloe was absorption(Since Tsuna isn't ripping mana from inside her but rather from her constructs she doesn't have resistance) and then it'd be a question of how much of a power-up Tsuna would gain with each construct.