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2-A Star vs the Forces of Evil

I’m gonna ignore the rest of the situation now, and stick to the important thing.

“And this is the most important point I wanted to focus on, and why goes on top of dimensions being inconsistent. She says she wanted to blow something up, and wanted to go bigger than a mountain and later clarifies that she intends to rip the earth in two and then blows up the "dimension". She outright stating she was going to blow up a planet and then uses that to parallel a dimension, on top of the myriad of times the word planet and dimension have been interchangeable in the show, is why I say she doing a Low 2-C is dodgy and shouldn't be used.”
>You’re taking the statement completely out of context. She didn’t say that since she was going to rip the earth in two she was therefore only going to destroy a planet, hell taking that statement literally completely contradicts it because if she wanted to “rip the earth in two” she wouldn’t have made the dimension completely gone. This isn’t nowhere near enough proof to try and say dimensions are inconsistent; this is just nitpicking her wording and trying to assume she meant only planet here.

“Literally all your points you use go against your argument.

That that isn't a literal galaxy and it's just a visual effect.”
>Ok explain how it’s not, what’s your proof for this? This is an extraordinary claim that requires extraordinary evidence and until I get that, I’m applying the duck test.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_test

“It inadvertently scales back to him because his casual blasts before he even "absorbed" Omnitraxus were Low 2-C.”
>The blast was from the wand and the blast varies in tier, he also doesn’t physically scale to the wand or else he’d have no need to shoot out a blast from it or use it create a forcefield to block attacks.

“Now you're literally making up arguments I literally never used.”
>This is just saying something without elaboration or anything I’ve elaborated and showed why you used the argument, no need to repeat myself.

“It's not a valid method at all.

You used a statement that called it the most powerful object, by the most unreliable character in the whole show, and you tried to fuse it with another completely disconnected event that would only make sense if the conclusion was true in the first place.”
>How is Toffee and unreliable character? I explained why Ludo’s reliable in this scene and context, you made no refute to that and just ignored it. Ludo’s statement is backed up by Toffee’s statement, that’s not fusing, that’s using supporting evidence.
https://www.brightstorm.com/english/writing/parts-of-an-essay/supporting-evidence/#:~:text=Supporting%20evidence%20proves%20a%20claim,paraphrased%20or%20a%20direct%20quote.&text=It's%20really%20where%20you%20prove,that%20evidence%20that%20supports%20it.

“This is only true if it was those two statements weren't completely disconnected from eachother and were stated by a reliable character. Neither of those requirements you meet.”
>How are they disconnected from each other? How is Toffee not a reliable character? I explained why Ludo’s reliable, you just said what amounts to basically “no he isn’t” with no real refute.

“So you're either intentionally ignoring it, or you're just not realizing what I'm saying.”
>Irony.

“How is that out of no where.... We know the multiverse is connected because of magic, take magic out of the equation and what happens?”
>The multiverse is connected because of dimensional portals Og, not because of magic.

^It’s directly stated here that Hekapoo’s portals are the reasons the dimensions are in contact with each other. Which as shown, Hekapoo even has control to non-magical portals:


So in context the multiverse’s “connection” is that there’s a lady that handles the dimensional travel, not that it’s literally connected via magic.
 
Just noticed this

"And you're continuing to strawman. You're completely ignoring every single other comment I posted in regards to this that shows I never did what you claim I did."
>No, I am not, I directly quoted what you said you claimed that all the power in the universe does not translate to universal AP. So either you misworded yourself here, or you genuinely made a mistake and tried to switch up your argument. Every other comment posted wasn't even in regards to that specific topic and idk why other comments would suddenly prove the "translates to universal AP" thing isn't what it directly is.
 
I think that Ogbunabali makes sense.

Thank you for striving for unbiased reliability and accuracy in our profile pages and trying to remain patient and polite despite the hostility thrown your way.

How do you think that we should revise the character statistics for this verse for greater reliability?

You should also add yourself to the knowledgeable members list for this verse if you haven't already.

In any case, further hostility or personal attacks that are irrelevant to the matter of fact arguments here will not be tolerated.

Should we send notifications to some administrators to help out with evaluating this topic?
 
Antvasima said:
How do you think that we should revise the character statistics for this verse for greater reliability?

You should also add yourself to the knowledgeable members list for this verse if you haven't already.

In any case, further hostility or personal attacks that are irrelevant to the matter of fact arguments here will not be tolerated.
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Look, I'm going to clarify on this because I think both sides got the wrong idea.

The reason this even started it out like it did was because when Eficiente dipped off the thread, he had admitted he wasn't particularly knowledgeable in SVTFOE. That's fine. However, our problem was that Ogbunabali repeated multiple arguments of his that we had already settled. For example, Eficiente brought up the statement from Moon about the wand destroying the universe. We settled that earlier in the thread, but it's something Ogbunabali brought up again in doubt. I'm not going to fully blame since he apparently didn't read the earlier bits of the thread, but you need to realize it started like that because all of us were annoyed because we had to rediscuss something that was already concluded. Would you not also be annoyed if you did a CRT and someone came into backpedal your progress?

Both parties are at fault. We shouldn't have replied so aggressively right off the bat, and Ogbunabali shouldn't have been so dismissive in his first reply to us. I'm pretty sure you know that common sense dictates that a conversation only stays aggressive if both sides are, which is clearly what happened here.

I understand you favor your staff usually, but you need to recognize it's something we all caused. I'm not trying to restart this again or make Ogbunabali look bad specifically, I'm just telling you it's not as one-sided as you're making it out to be. Nothing here was a personal attack either. Especially when I said he was wasting time if he was saying something was wrong without having the scan beforehand, that was just a general blunt remark rather than being personal.

Anyway, most people on the thread seem to actually be agreeing with us over Ogbunabali if anything. You should go back to the earlier references and see this for yourself.

I'm just waiting for Ogbunabali's replay, and I'll not be as blunt considering what direction the thread when we did.
 
Okay. Noted. I was likely too harsh then.

What do you think Ogbunabali? Should we notify more staff members for help with evaluating this?
 
I have college work to focus on, so I don't have the time or energy to continue a back and forth with the same arguments but slightly differently worded.

So I'll just cover the only 3 things that could support this high of a rating.

1. Omnitraxus is space-time

As I've said previously the only thing that has any sort of backing for this is that he's called that one time. Now, that on its own is not enough, but we actually have context that Glossaryck created him to oversee space-time. Him being space-time itself is contradicted multiple times as well. He existed before space-time was a thing (as evidenced above), he gets killed, not once, but twice and nothing happens to space-time.

2. Moon said the universe could be destroyed

Now again, a statement like this wouldn't be considered as anything in other verses, but it's especially weird here. Not only is this the first 5 minutes from the first episode from the show when the canon/lore wasn't even fully established and the show was more focused on "whacky" than consistency. But this was a completely off handed statement, that is literally never mentioned or referenced ever again and never acted on as if this is the case in dire situations when you would expect this to be brought up. So the context and circumstances of how this was said is extremely unreliable and shouldn't be used.

3. A queen of Mewni blows up a dimension

And this is the only potential universal feat that's here that you could make the argument for a rating. But the problem with this is that in Star vs the Forces of Evil, the word "dimensions" is used very liberally. Extremely often they just use word to refer to a single place or a planet (e.g. Bouncing Lounge, Mewni, etc). On top of that she herself says in the scan that she is planning on destroying a planet, even further enforcing that the meaning of the word dimension is blurring. This being the whole context is extremely dodgy to be used to reasnoble gauge a rating from, and even if we would take this at face value it'd still be a 3-A feat, and not a Low 2-C, a whole infinity above it, let alone a 2-A one.
 
I'm going to have to disagree once again, and I'm going to post the refutes so thread-goers understand the other side of the argument. I'm sorry the replies are so long, but it mostly stems from the fact you need a good series overview to understand a lot of the arguments. It would be a good read if you give it your full attention.
Ogbunabali said:
1. Omnitraxus is space-time

As I've said previously the only thing that has any sort of backing for this is that he's called that one time. Now, that on its own is not enough, but we actually have context that Glossaryck created him to oversee space-time. Him being space-time itself is contradicted multiple times as well. He existed before space-time was a thing (as evidenced above), he gets killed, not once, but twice and nothing happens to space-time.
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This seems more like you are forcing a problem where it doesn't actually exist. Omnitraxus being the embodiment of space-time is pretty consistent across lore books too, not just the show. Nothing about that scan shows he existed before space-time at all. Giver explained both instances of being "killed" too.
Ogbunabali said:
2. Moon said the universe could be destroyed

Now again, a statement like this wouldn't be considered as anything in other verses, but it's especially weird here. Not only is this the first 5 minutes from the first episode from the show when the canon/lore wasn't even fully established and the show was more focused on "whacky" than consistency. But this was a completely off handed statement, that is literally never mentioned or referenced ever again and never acted on as if this is the case in dire situations when you would expect this to be brought up. So the context and circumstances of how this was said is extremely unreliable and shouldn't be used.
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There are a few things that aren't agreeable here. I'm going to post Moon's line for context as well.

Moon: Now, Star, this wand is a big responsibility. If it falls into the hands of evil forces, the universe could be destroyed.

Firstly, statements of destroying the universe are plenty acceptable for a verse if it meets the Statements criteria. This statement meets all of the necessary checkpoints as the source is from someone who has used the wand for many years (and is one of the most powerful Queens of Mewni), the statement doesn't conflict with the narrative as it's consistent with entries from the Magic Books of Spells where Skywynne accidentally destroys a dimension and later recreates it, and it holds up in comparison to other settings. Even the note about exaggeration doesn't apply because we know it's something that's actually happened before from using it.

The placement in the episode itself is honestly fine. It's the moment where Star receives her wand, so it's the best place to insert the statement. Just because it's in the first five minutes wouldn't automatically devalue it. Toffee makes a similar remark about its power later on as well, so you can't exactly say it's just "offhand" as that's not truthful. I have to fully disagree with your take on this point for these reasons. It's something that's shown repeated consistency in lore books and actual dialogue to substantiate it.
Ogbunabali said:
3. A queen of Mewni blows up a dimension

And this is the only potential universal feat that's here that you could make the argument for a rating. But the problem with this is that in Star vs the Forces of Evil, the word "dimensions" is used very liberally. Extremely often they just use word to refer to a single place or a planet (e.g. Bouncing Lounge, Mewni, etc). On top of that she herself says in the scan that she is planning on destroying a planet, even further enforcing that the meaning of the word dimension is blurring. This being the whole context is extremely dodgy to be used to reasnoble gauge a rating from, and even if we would take this at face value it'd still be a 3-A feat, and not a Low 2-C, a whole infinity above it, let alone a 2-A one.
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Your point about the dimensions is regressing a lot of the discussion we used to fix this point. I'll go over it again since this seems to be the summarization of arguments.

Your entire point about dimensions being less than universes is just based on the names. However, the reason why the dimensions have these names is that it's talking about the focal interest of the dimension. Earth is the best example of this. The show constantly treats Earth as its own dimension, however, the Earth itself is not the only thing in the dimension. There are references in the Star and Marco's Guide to other planets in the solar system and other galaxies entirely. The best way to think about it is like this. The dimensions are named after what's the most interesting part about them, it's not saying that there's all it is to it exclusively because the actual dimension is far larger. You brought up the Bounce Lounge for an example for it only being a small place. However, when you linked the wiki, it actually has a picture on the page showing the dimension has a starry sky in it. The Bounce Lounge is just called that because it's the main interest of the dimension. The same thing goes for Mewni too as it's not just a planet. First of all, Mewni itself isn't the name of the planet. It's the name of the kingdom that acts as the main interest of the dimension. Now I'm pretty sure your immediate conclusion would then just be that Mewni, as a dimension, is only kingdom-sized. However, we know this is false because there was a spell specifically about deleting gravity which showed a sketch of a planet that Mewni was on. This is ignoring that the opening shows that Mewni has a starry sky too. Saying that it's an example of being limited to a planet is just false. One last thing too, Marco treats the parallel universes mentioned by Omnitraxus as synonymous with dimensions too. There's plenty of evidence for universal-sized dimensions.

Mathmagic...

Omnitraxus: Mm-hmm. So... all time and space are considered as one. And within it, infinite parallel universes exist—

Omnitraxus: Here's infinite versions of you in infinite parallel timelines in infinite parallel math classes.

Stump Day...

Marco: No problem. You know, with all the infinite dimensions that exist, it's still your birthday somewhere, right?

You're nitpicking the words as well. She said that she was aiming to only destroy the planet. The whole point of what happened afterward was that used too much power, which resulted in the dimension's destruction. The lines really aren't blurred at all because this is an incredibly general interpretation of it. And given how we've already proven that the series more consistently tries to have dimensions as universes (which is very common in western media), this would be the more objectively correct interpretation of it.

More Important Stuff:

Also, there were other refutes to Tier 2 stuff brought up that you didn't exactly refute when you initially responded:
- Star damaging time across the multiverse with her misuse of the Time Stop spell
- The Wand has been stated to overwrite timelines
- Omnitraxus stopping the multiverse from eating itself
- Star recreating the Realm of Magic
- Eclipsa, Meteora, Moon, and Star destroying the Realm of Magic in their Butterfly Forms
- Eclipsa has a spell that can destroy all of existence
- Marco and Star fused the Multiverse together at the end of the show

You kind of repeated all of the points that Giver and I already went over and everyone has disagreed upon. We're just backtracking on points at this point, which is restarting the discussion for the third time to repeat.

Also, I understand if you have college work to work on. I have taken a lot of college courses myself, and they tend to be pretty time-consuming with their work. Put your studies forth first as this thread will be here still probably past it. Good luck in your studies man and take your time.
 
Most of these are just a repetition of points I or Ploz already addressed and Ploz has made a detailed explanation of each argument so I'll keep this concise.

1. "Oversee" isn't the only thing the magic high commission does, they directly control the stuff they oversee (I.E. Hekapoo can create and control dimensional portals even to the point where non-magical dimensional portals are affected by her because she is the one that "oversees" dimensional portals), and as directly shown in his very scene he embodies them, unless we want to consider it a completely separate multiverse within him, he's embodying the main multiverse. It's also weird how Daron and the animators specifically had the first time he was killed having Toffee absorb his powers, the second time was when magic no longer existed. It's also doubly weird how the space-time guy would't be the one merged with it when his first appearance to us was appearing from the universe and creating an avatar and just... his appearance in general, he's a living giant that hosts his own universe inside of him. If Glossaryck just needed him to explain space-time and not be it it's weird he made him the appearance, and the entrance of that. Finally the multiverse point, like I've said prior, the multiverse was fused as magic was dying by both Star and Marco, it's weird how specific things happen that are related to the multiverse or OP right before he dies, for Toffee it's that he gets absorbed, for the ending, it's that Star and Marco fuse everything, so yeah. At worse those 2 moments would just mean Daron or the writers don't realize a being that embodies something dying would cause the thing they embody to die which would be a writer inconsistency that gets overridden by lore.

2. I made an entire comment regarding why this statement is legitimate and be used, none of this was refuted and the possible counter-arguments brought up I refuted in this comment.

3. This is just repeating a point that was refuted with no evidence. Dimensions never ever once refer to only a planet, the Bounce Lounge and Mewni's points were directly refuted by ploz with no reply, the "planning to destroy the planet" thing I directly refuted and it's clearly taking a statement completely out of context. So no, the context is by no means dodgy, it's attempting to nitpick a word from a sentence in order to attempt that. None of these feats are 3-A, they're all Low 2-C, as the wand has shown it can overwrite timelines and damage time itself so it does not only affect space with it's power.


Even if we don't want to take the OP feat, as ploz said there's several other tier 2 feats ranging from Low 2-C to 2-A on there.

Btw here's the scan for anyone wondering why I said Hekapoo is the one that negated the portals.
 
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Ogbunabali:

Thank you for helping out. I appreciate it. Feel free to send notifications to other staff members via the @Username command if you need assistance.
 
Giver and Ploz seem to make the most sense and have more evidence, I'll go with them. Not only did all the non-mod people agree with Giver and Ploz, but I think DarkGrath also agreed with OP being 2-A.
 
Antvasima said:
What do you think that we should do here?
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As I said before, I don't have the time to go back and forth for who knows how many comments in a war of attrition. I gave my reasons above why the tier 2 shouldn't be used, but I can't continue to mindlessly argue it.

So I guess it's better to get some other knowledgeable staff members to come and comment here.
 
I’m familiar enough with SvTFoE to give an opinion here. Granted it’s 3 in the morning on my end so I can’t really say much more than I heavily agree with Ogbunbali and that true Tier 2 levels of power are extremely sparse in the series, and are at best relegated to singular spells that shouldn’t scale to basically anyone, or at worst feats that are outright not representative of what the characters can accomplish when contextualized with anti-feats and just general inconsistency.

I can try and give a more coherent reply tomorrow.
 
Thank you for the help. It is very appreciated.
 
I know absolutely nothing about SvTFoE, so there's not really anything good I can say. I'd rather not blindly agree or disagree with anything when I'm as unknowledgeable on the source material as I am in this instance.
 
Okay, evaluating the arguments here. I'll start with Omni.

GiverOfThePeace said:
his appearance in general, he's a living giant that hosts his own universe inside of him. If Glossaryck just needed him to explain space-time and not be it it's weird he made him the appearance, and the entrance of that
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Where did "his own universe" come from? We're pretty strict about what is qualified as "universe-sized" on the site, and typically statements need to be made to clarify that a body is actually, well, that large. Are you just assuming this or is there something that hasn't been provided here yet?

And going by his actual size relative to Star in that scene. We have plenty of characters whose bodies have the visual appearance of starscapes but clearly aren't portrayed as being of a size that scale, and the largest we wee Omni in that scene is basically him being so large that Star couldn't distinguish him from the sky (which if we compare the size of the "galaxy" inside of him before and after isn't actually that large at all) and when he got into a Kaiju fight and struggled against a Demon whose main gimmick was size shifting. Like I'd imagine if Omni could actually extend his body out as far as people are claiming he can he could have just made himself any arbitrarily large size to win that fight instantly. I can smell the incoming "PIS" argument, but the thing is, we aren't even told/shown properly that he has that scope, we're assuming it, see below, so there isn't even anything to contradict other than user assumptions.

And going by this it looks like he's not actually stated to embody the universe or the multiverse's spacetime and we're just assuming it because it'd be weird for Glossy to make him explain / look like it without being it? What? How is this an actual argument?

GiverOfThePeace said:
At worse those 2 moments would just mean Daron or the writers don't realize a being that embodies something dying would cause the thing they embody to die which would be a writer inconsistency that gets overridden by lore.
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This feels like cherrypicking moments in the show that don't agree with the specific ratings we give it as "writers not knowing what they're writing" and moments in the show that agree with it as "solid, unrefutable lore". It's the same people writing both, either can be flawed and what's contradicted more is what matters.

If nearly every time a character gets into a fight in the show we fail to see anything that confirms assumptions off of nondescriptive exposition, I think the users giving the ratings are at fault and not the writers writing. Going on the above, the actual evidence for Omni being Tier 2 or even Tier 4 is severely lacking, too.
 
From my understanding of star vs butterfly is that the powerlevels vary from wall level universe level.

When characters are serious they can tap into that universal level power, but that doesn’t mean that characters are always batting at 100%.

I don’t remember anyone wielding magic that was going to destory the entire verse. But I think Star destroying magic was 2-A feat. Whether via hax or AP you can decide.

Characters have shown to be hurt by physical wall level attacks but can tank powerful magical attacks. Showing a kind of pokemon like split defense.

I don’t remember anyone being able to physically cause wide spread destruction without magic or magic amps.

If I was to to mark svtfoe characters i would give them a varies. Because thats what accurately describes the verse.
Just my two cents.

correct me if im wrong. I only can go by the episodes i have seen. I have yet to see the extra material.
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
From my understanding of star vs butterfly is that the powerlevels vary from wall level universe level.

When characters are serious they can tap into that universal level power, but that doesn’t mean that characters are always batting at 100%.

I don’t remember anyone wielding magic that was going to destory the entire verse. But I think Star destroying magic was 2-A feat. Whether via hax or AP you can decide.

Characters have shown to be hurt by physical wall level attacks but can tank powerful magical attacks. Showing a kind of pokemon like split defense.

I don’t remember anyone being able to physically cause wide spread destruction without magic or magic amps.

If I was to to mark svtfoe characters i would give them a varies. Because thats what accurately describes the verse.
Just my two cents.

correct me if im wrong. I only can go by the episodes i have seen. I have yet to see the extra material.
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No one is getting physically 2-A via this btw it's via their most potent spells. Their all physically atm High 8-C
 
GiverOfThePeace said:
I'll give a reply later to this just wanted to make this post so this thread doesn't get closed. I'm on phone atm though.
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I wouldn't close a thread that I disagreed with without giving everyone a chance to debate it, and I'm not the sole determiner of whether or not this goes through. Just giving my two cents, so take as much time as you need.

Overlord775 said:
isn't Optimatus Prime stopping the multiverse from eating itself a pretty clear and cut 2-A feat ?
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Not really, based on how we see these multiverse-threatening events take place in the show. It seems more like he's stopping domino effects from spiraling out of control and spreading to the greater multiverse rather than showcasing power that would actually allow him to destroy/create an infinite multiverse, which is how we define the tier and give ratings outside of scaling to characters who are demonstrably proven to have feats like that.

Which is kind of the issue for these little-to-zero context statements. There's no clear-cut way to interpret them and so any ratings you get from them are pretty vague and hard to definitively prove.
 
Also, not sure where this sentiment is coming from, but the plan never was to make anyone Tier 2 physically. Everyone who's already Low 2-C physically in the verse just gets bumped to 2-A if this gets accepted. People like Marco, Tom, and Star should not scale to it physically. We've already gone over this earlier in the thread.
 
Also, I'll give my own reply to the recent stuff later as well. I'm going somewhere soon, so I don't have the time right now to type up any essay storms.
 
PlozAlcachaz said:
People like Marco, Tom, and Star should not scale to it physically. We've already gone over this earlier in the thread.
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I mean, yeah, I know? I'm commenting for everyone who's Tier 2 via magic when the magic in SvTFoE is always all over the place and only ever peaks at that tier at a few key moments in the show.

Unless this was directed elsewhere, in which case just disregard.
 
I'm not exactly knowledgeable on SVtFoE, as I only watched a little bit of it. I always thought 2-A is legit and still do, and I still stick by Giver and Ploz here.
 
And just as a head's up, I'm just looking at Omni's exposition in isolation for now - I'm aware there's other arguments to be made here but I think debating them all at once would make the thread an incoherent mess.
 
I think that Dargoo seems to make sense. Thank you for helping out.

What do you and @Ogbunabali think that these characters should be downgraded to?
 
Dargoo_Faust said:
Where did "his own universe" come from? We're pretty strict about what is qualified as "universe-sized" on the site, and typically statements need to be made to clarify that a body is actually, well, that large. Are you just assuming this or is there something that hasn't been provided here yet?

And going by his actual size relative to Star in that scene. We have plenty of characters whose bodies have the visual appearance of starscapes but clearly aren't portrayed as being of a size that scale, and the largest we wee Omni in that scene is basically him being so large that Star couldn't distinguish him from the sky (which if we compare the size of the "galaxy" inside of him before and after isn't actually that large at all) and when he got into a Kaiju fight and struggled against a Demon whose main gimmick was size shifting. Like I'd imagine if Omni could actually extend his body out as far as people are claiming he can he could have just made himself any arbitrarily large size to win that fight instantly. I can smell the incoming "PIS" argument, but the thing is, we aren't even told/shown properly that he has that scope, we're assuming it, see below, so there isn't even anything to contradict other than user assumptions.

And going by this it looks like he's not actually stated to embody the universe or the multiverse's spacetime and we're just assuming it because it'd be weird for Glossy to make him explain / look like it without being it? What? How is this an actual argument?
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Alright I was able to get on a device so I'll give my quick replies to this, the way quoting works here is weird so I'll try to go one by one. From what I understood having a galaxy in you along with other starry skies and being known as a space-time dude was enough to be a universe but I re-looked at the page and it's considered a galaxy sized pocket dimension, weird imo but site rules so disregard "his own universe". Unless the inside of him having planets, stars, and multiple swirls helps out along with his crystal field of interwoven continuum statement.

Can you give examples of these characters because in the context of omnitraxtus prime you he's the entire dimension form what the scene is showing and he creates an avatar to visually speak to Star, which is further proven by how he can make himself go inside of himself. Also we see he's clearly not as small inside as he is on the outside, inside of him hosts stars, planets, swirls, and a crystal field of interwoven continuum which is referencing space-time from what I understand.

Which Kaiju fight are you talking about by the way? The one against Globgor? Small nitpick if you do mean him, but Globgor isn't a demon, he's a monster. I wouldn't even attribute that to PIS, I'd attribute that to he was kicking his ass in his regular form before the Globgor only got one good hit on him if you notice, even as Globgor was shape shifting OP didn't really do it himself cause he could take him on with the size already given. If you're talking about another fight please remind me of it.

That's not the argument whatsoever Dargoo, that last point wasn't even a main point of mine it was me just bringing up how it's weird Glossaryck would design him as that, you can see my main arguments in your own refute, idk how you got to this conclusion.
Dargoo_Faust said:
This feels like cherrypicking moments in the show that don't agree with the specific ratings we give it as "writers not knowing what they're writing" and moments in the show that agree with it as "solid, unrefutable lore". It's the same people writing both, either can be flawed and what's contradicted more is what matters.

If nearly every time a character gets into a fight in the show we fail to see anything that confirms assumptions off of nondescriptive exposition, I think the users giving the ratings are at fault and not the writers writing. Going on the above, the actual evidence for Omni being Tier 2 or even Tier 4 is severely lacking, too.
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What are you quoting exactly? Cause I never said those words exactly and you normally quote stuff like that when you're parroting what someone said, asides from that I don't really see how it's cherrypicking, my main issue was that these two moments are outshined by the main scene introducing him along with lore statements.

I don't see what you mean by "every time a character gets into a fight" Omnitraxtus Prime has been in a total of 3 fights at the most from memory. One of them he was one-shotted by a being who was corrupting magic itself, the other was him easily pinning Eclipsa against a wall, and the third was Globgor who only had one good hit on him before ultimately losing. I don't see how the actual evidence is lacking either tbh, you attempting to draw his outside appearance as something contradictory when we see he's clearly far lager inside then outside.

Dargoo_Faust said:
Not really, based on how we see these multiverse-threatening events take place in the show. It seems more like he's stopping domino effects from spiraling out of control and spreading to the greater multiverse rather than showcasing power that would actually allow him to destroy/create an infinite multiverse, which is how we define the tier and give ratings outside of scaling to characters who are demonstrably proven to have feats like that.

Which is kind of the issue for these little-to-zero context statements. There's no clear-cut way to interpret them and so any ratings you get from them are pretty vague and hard to definitively prove.
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The only real domino effect problem shown thusfar is Star's and hers was via her being a statistical improbability from inf timelines, and I wouldn't say that's in terms to that context cause Glossaryck says in the same sentence he's a garbage explainer but he can does a good job keeping the multiverse from eating itself and with Star he was trying to explain it to her. Otherwise I have no real opinion nor care on keeping it from eating itself.
 
Dargoo_Faust said:
I mean, yeah, I know? I'm commenting for everyone who's Tier 2 via magic when the magic in SvTFoE is always all over the place and only ever peaks at that tier at a few key moments in the show.

Unless this was directed elsewhere, in which case just disregard.
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He was replying to @Iamunanimousinthat as I was

Also magic is supposed to canonically be all over the place since the way you use magic is via how much of the universes energy you tap into, Glossaryck basically explains it here. Ig he can also be shown as anther case that places are far bigger from within then outside since they both go inside of his eyeball and you can see starry skies and such.
 
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