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2-A Star vs the Forces of Evil
- Thread starter Overlord775
- Start date
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We should wait to see what everyone has to say, if there's some other feats I'm not remembering. But I personally think the Low 2-C should be removed, yes.
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No, dimension always refers to universe, never planet to unspecified large space, unless you can show an example in SVTFOE. Dimension has always been an alternate universe. That's why they're separate space-times across the multiverse, it'd make no sense that Mewni and Earth are the only universes when they're multiverse hopping and they just suddenly hop into a planet-sized realm.
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Omnitraxtus Prime was made to maintain the multiverse and keep it from eating itself, so while yes he's in charge of it, all that'd say is that Omnitraxtus Prime was merged with space-time when Glossaryck created him, his exact entrance is being the universe itself and then creating a form to speak to Star. Also when he gets casually killed by Toffee and nothing happens to space-time, notice how Toffee drains his powers. At very worse it'd be that he killed omnitraxtus prime's avatar on such a scale his true form couldn't interact with the rest of the cast anymore.
I don't see how it'd be an outlier when it's with their most potent spell and the people that scale are the top tier magic users of the verse, especially when there's no real contradicting feat for them.
Also Low 2-C is defo not dodgy, Skywenne can destroy dimensions which are universes and at worse OP embodies the time dimension he and father time reside in, there's also consistent statements of the wand being able to destroy the universe, being all the power in the universe and the most powerful relic in existence which would scale it above Low 2-C objects such as the box of truth. It has froze time to the point that Father Time said Star could've broken it, etc.
Also did you watch S4 cause there's a direct feat of Star and Marco merging the multiverse.
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The infinite timelines statement that we get from Omnitraxus was in the episode where Star does a math problem on an infinite scale in different variations of Earth. Omnitraxus and Star has multiple lines of it in the episode.
Omnitraxus Prime: Mm-hmm. So... all time and space are considered as one. And within it, infinite parallel universes exist-
Omnitraxus Prime: Here's infinite versions of you in infinite parallel timelines in infinite parallel math classes.
Star Butterfly: Who cares?! There are infinite chickens crossing infinite roads, okay? So why don't you just ask them?
Star Butterfly: If all the infinite versions of me know how to solve that math problem... [glitches back to normal] ...then I must know how to solve it, too, right?
Note that last one for Omnitraxus (and even the last one too by Star for that matter). He's saying there are infinite variations of Earth's dimension. The Earth dimension is most certainly bigger than a planet for multiple reasons.
- There are clear stars up in the sky when it comes to multiple shots
- They note how the Earth is in a solar system in the Guide to the Multiverse
- They make note of the Milky Way Galaxy as well
If the galaxy has to be named like our own, then it's a completely safe assumption that it has to because of the existence of other galaxies like our own universe for classification. There are multiple statements of threatening existence for the cast to scale to. Even if literally every other dimension were "lol just a planet," it would be entirely irrelevant because we already know there are infinite versions of a completely proved universal space. They would still get 2-A regardless.
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Also, what is your reason for dimensions being less than universes exactly? Is it just because of the names? That's not a good reason if so either. The whole point of the names is that it's revolving around the main interest of the dimension. You can literally just use Earth as an example of this too. Earth, as a planet, is most certainly not the size of a universe. However, it is in its universe as the focal interest. I cannot genuinely think of a reason for dimensions to not be less than universes, especially when Omnitraxus called them parallel universes.
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Also to note, earth dimension is a great example of this, dimensions names are based off the focal point/point of interest of a dimension, that's why irrelevant dimensions like the one Skywene blew up had just some random numbers added to it, there was no point of interest, so no dimension they enter is the entire size of the dimension but the focal point. Even then these are clearly alternate universes since one of the main draws of the show is traveling across to alternate universes:
You can even see in the intro some of these dimensions having stars in the sky.
You can even see in the intro some of these dimensions having stars in the sky.
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Final comment cause I just remembered this, Marco directly says, "You know, with all the infinite dimensions that exist it's still your birthday somewhere", this connects to Omnitraxtus Prime's statement about their being infinite Stars, which we was correlating to infinite universes, so yeah, dimensions are universes.
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What do you think @Ogbunabali ?
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Everything in this one paragraph completely botches every single argument made on this thread and fails to adequately represent them.
Firstly, very few characters in the verse actually scale to any of the Tier 2 stuff physically. Of the current profiles we have, it's just Meteora, Globgor, Omnitraxus, Glossaryck, Mina, and Toffee. All of these cases are completely fine, and they have little to no actual anti-feats for themselves.
- Meteora is like the only one of these six that has a couple of anti-feats for her tier. Even then, she has way more supporting Tier 2 physically at the complete height of her power. She did decently against Moon's Butterfly Form and managed to survive Star extracting his Butterfly Form's power to cause a giant explosion. She was pretty much overwhelming Star in that fight too.
- Globgor has like no anti-feats. He was taking on the Magical High Commission and restrained Star in her Butterfly Form. His only loss was against another Low 2-C, being the Solarian Warrior armor.
- Glossaryck is the god tier of the verse and nobody even scales to him. He can break out of Rhombulus' crystals through sheer AP when they can restrain someone like Globgor. His tiering is fine.
- Mina is only Low 2-C with her Solarian Warrior suit. Said suits have like no actual anti-feats as it required Star to amplify herself with Magic to even contest them. Eclipsa had to also use her strongest spell to subdue it as well. One Solarian Warrior took down Globgor in a fight.
- Toffee has no anti-feats that are notable either. All that happens in the fight is that he bodies all of the MHC. He's literally fused with the wand and knows how to use it to its fullest capabilities, unlike Ludo.
I literally don't get how you can say this is outlier territory when the people physically scaling to Low 2-C/2-A don't have really anything putting a dent on their tiers. As for the magic users, they completely vary depending on the type of spells they use. Not every attack that comes from the wand is automatically Tier 2. Given all of this analysis, saying that it's "a huge outlier" makes no actual sense, and it is a completely unsupported claim to try to devalue the upgrade.
You are objectively incorrect on there being few Tier 2 feats too. By my count, there are 10+ feats that outwardly advocate for Tier 2.
- Skywynne accidentally destroyed a dimension with a blast from the Royal Magic Wand
- Skywynne literally made an entry about how this could happen for future wand bearers in the Magic Books of Spells so that they could restore the dimension they destroyed (which she later did)
- The wand can destroy the universe, according to Moon
- Eclipsa has a spell that's stated to be able to destroy all of existence
- Star, Moon, Meteora, and Eclipsa destroyed the Realm of Magic in their Butterfly Forms
- Star recreated the Realm of Magic by herself using Magic
- Omnitraxus embodies space-time of universes on an infinite scale
- Omnitraxus stops the Multiverse from literally eating itself
- Star had a spell that damaged time across the entire multiverse
- Toffee calls the wand all of the power in the universe to show it's up there with other Tier 2 stuff
- The wand has shown the capability to overwrite timelines
- Star and Marco fused the multiverse together at the end of the show
As you can see, what you previously said is just genuinely false. This isn't a bunch of scaling feats either. It's literally just feats that show they do things that put them at a Tier 2 level. That would be a much bigger list if we incorporated the logic of scaling and how it works out.
Moon stating the wand can destroy the universe isn't wrong either. We've already covered this exact same argument like multiple times in this thread already. There is an entry from Skywynne talking about how she accidentally destroyed a dimension. And as proven again below, "dimension" can be taken as synonymous as an actual universe.
Literally, all of your arguments are stuff we already addressed above. It's regurgitating the same points Eficiente used, in which he openly admitted he wasn't the most knowledgeable on the verse, to begin with. If you're going solely by the profiles feat-wise, they are massively outdated. That's why we're pushing these revisions to modernize them.
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Wew, there's a lot of stuff here.
This is blatantly false. It's been contradicted multiple times, e.g. Bounce Lounge is called an entire dimension, the planet Mewni,
This is just missunderstanding, it's obviously not literal it's obviously just a phrase, a very common one at that, meaning that the things that the things happening inside will be the cause of their own destruction.
Are we seriously using visuals that aren't literal and just for as proof now?
Even he did drain him, he actually gets killed first, and still nothing happened. Also you seem to forget that he got erased from existence and space-time is still fine, so.
This is headcanon.
It is an outlier because nothing else in the show comes even close to this. They deal with large energy blasts and explosions and get hurt by then, so yes this even if we take it as legitimate is an outlier.
It is dodgy. As I said above the word "dimension" is extremely relative in this verse so that point is moot. I already addressed the blow up the universe statement. Having "all the power in the universe" doesn't actually translate to universal AP, that's completely nonsensical, even at face value. I have my own problems with that profile as well, also using Ludo, the most incompetent and least knowledgeable person in the whole show as a completely reliable source is laughable. The chance he knows about the box's existence let alone it's full potential is zero.
Another headcanon. That's never explained why the dimensions merged together, for all we know it could be because of magic dying.
Fair play. Still too inconsistent for me to agree though.
Pretty bad argument. And they do have anti feats, all of them, besides Glossaryck have been hurt by their random attacks that haven't shown anywhere near the potency of Low 2-C.
All of the things listed here are "feats" only if you assume all of them are Low 2-C.... which is just circular scaling.
Again the usage of the word dimension is way too dodgy in this show to use as an argument for anything.
This is just outright false, they were literally joined by all the past queens to preform that, so another anti-feat.
???? What? Source?
Already debunked.
Refresh my memory here.
Headcanon. We quite literally not know why the multiverse merged together.
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"This is blatantly false. It's been contradicted multiple times, e.g. Bounce Lounge is called an entire dimension, the planet Mewni,"
>This was already refuted in the following comment, which you clearly did not read. The dimensions names refer to the focal points, unless you're trying to say Earth is the entire dimension when that's clearly false in their own guidebooks. So no, it is in no way false. Hell, you used a wiki link to try and prove your point here.
"This is just missunderstanding, it's obviously not literal it's obviously just a phrase, a very common one at that, meaning that the things that the things happening inside will be the cause of their own destruction."
>Show me how common it is please, also you didn't even refute anything you just claimed something without substantiation burden of proof falls of you.
"Are we seriously using visuals that aren't literal and just for as proof now?"
>How is it not literal? This is also a loaded question.
"Even he did drain him, he actually gets killed first, and still nothing happened. Also you seem to forget that he got erased from existence and space-time is still fine, so."
>Cinematic timing. He drained him immediately after. When the magic high commission got erased all magic along with it got erased thus there was nothing magically holding the space-time.
"It is an outlier because nothing else in the show comes even close to this. They deal with large energy blasts and explosions and get hurt by then, so yes this even if we take it as legitimate is an outlier."
>What are you talking about? None of those explosions are the feats in question nor are ever their most potent spells, Star and co. consistently use tier 9-8 spells as they're fighting enemies of that tier. The most potent spells are only used against serious threats like the Solarian Warriors. Also I feel like you think for whatever reaosn they're physically tier 2 when they're not.
"It is dodgy. As I said above the word "dimension" is extremely relative in this verse so that point is moot. I already addressed the blow up the universe statement. Having "all the power in the universe" doesn't actually translate to universal AP, that's completely nonsensical, even at face value. I have my own problems with that profile as well, also using Ludo, the most incompetent and least knowledgeable person in the whole show as a completely reliable source is laughable. The chance he knows about the box's existence let alone it's full potential is zero."
>Which I refuted and your best refute thus far was using a wiki link and calling Mewni a planet, both points I already covered far before you wrote this comment. You didn't address the universe statement. I never once said having all the power in the universe translates to universal AP that's blatant strawman and shows me you clearly were not reading my argument I said that statement and fusing with the most powerful relic in existence support it being above the box of truth, so this clearly implies to me you are not reading my arguments correctly whatsoever. Thank you for fully misunderstanding Ludo by this point of the season, Ludo was incompetent from season 1 to 2, by 3 and onwards he got far more competent and this statement is backed up by Toffee's all the power in the universe statement. So I have no clue what you're attempting to refute here. I never said he knew about the box, I'm saying these statements holding the wand in high regard put it above the box, yet another strawman.
"Another headcanon. That's never explained why the dimensions merged together, for all we know it could be because of magic dying."
>Ok so I assume you have never watched season 4 or else you would obviously know it's become of them. Like this is blatantly incorrect on so many layers
^You literally see both of their cheeks glow, when one glows in SVTFOE that means they're using magic and upon their cheeks glowing you literally see a glowing swirling vortex appear under them
^Notice how the same vortex appears when everything is fusing
Idk why we need it explained when it's visually shown to us.
This is not headcanon, if anything the assumption you used is far more headcanon because that would mean Marco and Star randomly made a vortex of a similar nature and it just stopped there, which would make no sense and be out of nowhere.
"This is headcanon.'
>How is it headcanon? Explain, you just said it without any elaboration. If he killed OP who has shown that he can go inside of himself and thus the way he enters is always via a smaller figure as his true self is the shown to be a being across the entire time dimension, it is completely logical to assume avatar that affects him on a scale that his true form can no longer interact. You're not refuting at all.
'Fair play. Still too inconsistent for me to agree though."
>No, not at all inconsistent, you have literally no proof on your side except for a random wiki link to the SVTFOE wiki (Which thinks all dimensions are universes funnily enough), so if anything it being too inconsistent for you to agree is oreso you just not wanting to agree.
Idk if you watched S4 now with your merging the multiverse refute, and the rest of your refutes really aren't even refutes there's no scans, or evidence to your claims you're really just saying "no" or "this is headcanon" without explaining why that is the case. Thusfar, hitchen's razor.
>This was already refuted in the following comment, which you clearly did not read. The dimensions names refer to the focal points, unless you're trying to say Earth is the entire dimension when that's clearly false in their own guidebooks. So no, it is in no way false. Hell, you used a wiki link to try and prove your point here.
"This is just missunderstanding, it's obviously not literal it's obviously just a phrase, a very common one at that, meaning that the things that the things happening inside will be the cause of their own destruction."
>Show me how common it is please, also you didn't even refute anything you just claimed something without substantiation burden of proof falls of you.
"Are we seriously using visuals that aren't literal and just for as proof now?"
>How is it not literal? This is also a loaded question.
"Even he did drain him, he actually gets killed first, and still nothing happened. Also you seem to forget that he got erased from existence and space-time is still fine, so."
>Cinematic timing. He drained him immediately after. When the magic high commission got erased all magic along with it got erased thus there was nothing magically holding the space-time.
"It is an outlier because nothing else in the show comes even close to this. They deal with large energy blasts and explosions and get hurt by then, so yes this even if we take it as legitimate is an outlier."
>What are you talking about? None of those explosions are the feats in question nor are ever their most potent spells, Star and co. consistently use tier 9-8 spells as they're fighting enemies of that tier. The most potent spells are only used against serious threats like the Solarian Warriors. Also I feel like you think for whatever reaosn they're physically tier 2 when they're not.
"It is dodgy. As I said above the word "dimension" is extremely relative in this verse so that point is moot. I already addressed the blow up the universe statement. Having "all the power in the universe" doesn't actually translate to universal AP, that's completely nonsensical, even at face value. I have my own problems with that profile as well, also using Ludo, the most incompetent and least knowledgeable person in the whole show as a completely reliable source is laughable. The chance he knows about the box's existence let alone it's full potential is zero."
>Which I refuted and your best refute thus far was using a wiki link and calling Mewni a planet, both points I already covered far before you wrote this comment. You didn't address the universe statement. I never once said having all the power in the universe translates to universal AP that's blatant strawman and shows me you clearly were not reading my argument I said that statement and fusing with the most powerful relic in existence support it being above the box of truth, so this clearly implies to me you are not reading my arguments correctly whatsoever. Thank you for fully misunderstanding Ludo by this point of the season, Ludo was incompetent from season 1 to 2, by 3 and onwards he got far more competent and this statement is backed up by Toffee's all the power in the universe statement. So I have no clue what you're attempting to refute here. I never said he knew about the box, I'm saying these statements holding the wand in high regard put it above the box, yet another strawman.
"Another headcanon. That's never explained why the dimensions merged together, for all we know it could be because of magic dying."
>Ok so I assume you have never watched season 4 or else you would obviously know it's become of them. Like this is blatantly incorrect on so many layers
^You literally see both of their cheeks glow, when one glows in SVTFOE that means they're using magic and upon their cheeks glowing you literally see a glowing swirling vortex appear under them
^Notice how the same vortex appears when everything is fusing
Idk why we need it explained when it's visually shown to us.
This is not headcanon, if anything the assumption you used is far more headcanon because that would mean Marco and Star randomly made a vortex of a similar nature and it just stopped there, which would make no sense and be out of nowhere.
"This is headcanon.'
>How is it headcanon? Explain, you just said it without any elaboration. If he killed OP who has shown that he can go inside of himself and thus the way he enters is always via a smaller figure as his true self is the shown to be a being across the entire time dimension, it is completely logical to assume avatar that affects him on a scale that his true form can no longer interact. You're not refuting at all.
'Fair play. Still too inconsistent for me to agree though."
>No, not at all inconsistent, you have literally no proof on your side except for a random wiki link to the SVTFOE wiki (Which thinks all dimensions are universes funnily enough), so if anything it being too inconsistent for you to agree is oreso you just not wanting to agree.
Idk if you watched S4 now with your merging the multiverse refute, and the rest of your refutes really aren't even refutes there's no scans, or evidence to your claims you're really just saying "no" or "this is headcanon" without explaining why that is the case. Thusfar, hitchen's razor.
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Also I like how my infinite dimensions point that conclusively proves alt dimensions are universes was just upped and ignored.
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I agree with Giver and Ploz here.
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Giver and Plozible make sense.
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Even if we take this as true, why can't we assume that she didn't "blew up" the focal point.
You're seriously going to pretend that the phrase "stop it from killing itself" is not a common one.....
Yes a visual that's the size of a giant rock is totally a whole universe.
Not only is that not a strong argument, him absorbing his power doesn't actually mean that Toffee became space-time himself.
So he's only space-time when it's convenient for you?
High Commision is, and by proxy all the queens and star because otherwise the scaling completely breaks apart.
I've never seen so many fallacies in a single comment before. I don't know why you keep repeating this as if you're making an argument, I never used a wiki link as an argument for anything.
Which universe statement? The one from Moon?
I did read your argument, "all the power in the universe" is just a bad argument.
"Fusing" these two statements is fine only if both of these statements are literal and/or are from a reliable sources. Which their not.
He is still completely incompetent, the whole point was that he never learned anything and stayed the same Ludo even after his whole arc he was still the same old Ludo.
And the only way that Ludo's statement could be used in as any semblance of proof like this is if Ludo was aware of the power of the box or was competent enough in magic for his opinion to matter. Which he isn't, so it doesn't. This is just circular logic here. The only way for these arguments to make any sense if you assume what you're trying to prove is true in the first place.
Again, this is nothing but headcanon. You keep missing the 2 important details here, the first one that magic is no more, and the second one that when they hugged and the vortex appeared they got sent back to their own realities.
Both those situations you describe make far more sense and require far less assumptions if we assume that what we saw was just them being sent back to their respective dimensions, rather than they were using magic when magic explicitly didn't exist anymore.
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"Even if we take this as true, why can't we assume that she didn't "blew up" the focal point."
>The fact that the dimension she blew up not only didn't have a point of interest, hence it had a bland number based name. But also, the statement itself says that the dimension was no more.
You literally see him embody the sky and shrink himself down to a giant humanoid figure. If you're going to be sarcastic at least provide better reason then that
"So he's only space-time when it's convenient for you?"
>Irony. You say earlier I haven't a strong argument and you say this. No I clearly explained to you the context behind this and you just ignored it, I have no need to answer a rhetorical question that doesn't want to understand the context.
What do you think the starvstheforcesofevil.fandom is? An official disney site?
Also "I've never seen so many fallacies in a single comment before"
>Points none of them out
>Never explains how they are that
>Doesn't actually refute my point
"I did read your argument, "all the power in the universe" is just a bad argument."
>You didn't for the reasons I explained in my argument. You literally tried to say I used that as a reason for Low 2-C AP when I used that to say that via the statement and Ludo's later statement that helps support it scaling above the Box of Truth, especially when the All the Power in the universe statement comes from Toffee a valid source. Do not strawman my point again please, thx.
"And the only way that Ludo's statement could be used in as any semblance of proof like this is if Ludo was aware of the power of the box or was competent enough in magic for his opinion to matter. Which he isn't, so it doesn't. This is just circular logic here. The only way for these arguments to make any sense if you assume what you're trying to prove is true in the first place."
>This isn't circular logic objectively. Circular logic would be me saying the Wand scales to the Box of Truth because it's tier 2 and the Box of Truth scales to the wand because it's also tier 2. That's not what I'm doing here, also no Ludo would not need to be aware of the box since this statement is referring to the power of the wand itself, that's the way the scene is envisioned and everything.
>The fact that the dimension she blew up not only didn't have a point of interest, hence it had a bland number based name. But also, the statement itself says that the dimension was no more.
>That's not a refute sir, give me legitimate examples, please like I asked you that fits this context, if not hitchen's razor and burden of proof.
>What are you talking about?
You literally see him embody the sky and shrink himself down to a giant humanoid figure. If you're going to be sarcastic at least provide better reason then that
>Not what I said whatsoever, this is yet another strawman. I said he absorbed his power
"So he's only space-time when it's convenient for you?"
>Irony. You say earlier I haven't a strong argument and you say this. No I clearly explained to you the context behind this and you just ignored it, I have no need to answer a rhetorical question that doesn't want to understand the context.
Are you trying to say the MHC is physically tier 2? Cause that is not the case whatsoever asides from Omnitraxtus Prime. No the scaling doesn't break apart at all, the only people shown to harm OP physically either did it via magic [Toffee], or are greatly above the MHC and the Queens to the point that they can one-shot MHC members asides from OP and easily withhold Mewberty Star [Globgor]. If you're trying to make them physically tier 2 you'd need to argue why they'd be that in this thread.
Yes you did, what?
What do you think the starvstheforcesofevil.fandom is? An official disney site?
Also "I've never seen so many fallacies in a single comment before"
>Points none of them out
>Never explains how they are that
>Doesn't actually refute my point
"I did read your argument, "all the power in the universe" is just a bad argument."
>You didn't for the reasons I explained in my argument. You literally tried to say I used that as a reason for Low 2-C AP when I used that to say that via the statement and Ludo's later statement that helps support it scaling above the Box of Truth, especially when the All the Power in the universe statement comes from Toffee a valid source. Do not strawman my point again please, thx.
>Except it was literal, what are you talking about?
>Went to go get his family's deed back, no longer is interested in getting the wand back, and while Star is running by them asks her if she'd like to play a quick game with them. Something the entire episode was about was showing that he learned from his arc, and even then the statement is literally backed up by the statement I gave you. It is obvious by the narrative and the way the scene is shot that it's not meant to be Ludo being incompetent but giving a full speech about his past experiences, which are supported by them actually happening.
"And the only way that Ludo's statement could be used in as any semblance of proof like this is if Ludo was aware of the power of the box or was competent enough in magic for his opinion to matter. Which he isn't, so it doesn't. This is just circular logic here. The only way for these arguments to make any sense if you assume what you're trying to prove is true in the first place."
>This isn't circular logic objectively. Circular logic would be me saying the Wand scales to the Box of Truth because it's tier 2 and the Box of Truth scales to the wand because it's also tier 2. That's not what I'm doing here, also no Ludo would not need to be aware of the box since this statement is referring to the power of the wand itself, that's the way the scene is envisioned and everything.
>Ok so if magic doesn't exist anymore right, why would the portal exist in the first place? Why is the portal the exact same as the one Star and Marco created? No. You're ignoring how I sent you the context of the scan. It's the exact same vortex they created your refute of "magic is no more" would also **** with your argument that vortex wasn't made by them because why would their be a magical vortex to begin with? Your argument doesn't help justify the side you're arguing for at all, it hampers it itself. You're still not proving your side either btw, so again hitchen's razor.
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For whatever reason Ob is trying to say this wasn't refuted, let me give him a complete comprehensive reason on why his entire refute to Moon's statement is false:
"The only other "supporting feat" that I can think of is in the first episode when Moon says "the wand will blow up the universe", or something along those lines, which was clearly not serious and even at face value wouldn't warrant anything above a "possibly" rating."
>This is completely false in every regard:
^Firstly, nothing about this scene points to being "not serious", especially the way this episodes shows a non-serious scene.
An example:
^The scene after the first one is non-serious and played for laughs
^This scene, which even then is lowkey developing later story points
The way Moon delivers the information to Star is to warn her about the wand and to show (in the scene after) how she isn't ready for the responsibility.
Now let's go under the statements, category:
vsbattles.fandom.com
The statement from Moon is a type 2 statement:
"Option 2: The person is an educated wizard who has been researching this character and experimenting on him with his most destructive magic. In this case, the source is more reliable, but still not completely believable. He is stated to be invincible. In truth, he is only invincible in comparison to whatever this wizard could dish out. A low fantasy "indestructible" is our city-block level."
Moon is a member of the royal magic high commission and was a user of the royal magic wand herself so she'd have no reason to lie here or not understand what she's talking about, now let's go over some of the questions regarding statements:
"If the source of the statement is reliable?"
Moon is definitely reliable, as said prior she's a member of the royal magic high commission, and a user of the royal magic wand, so she wouldn't say things if they weren't meant to be serious/correct regarding it's power, especially since in context she's warning Star of the dangers of it. Moon is not characterized as an over-worrying mother either, so she'd have no reason to be exaggerating.
"If the statement conflicts with the story or feats of the character?"
>It doesn't as Skywene can nuke dimensions, Toffee can nuke OP, who at the very least, is 3-C, and Magic wand has consistent statements of being the strongest weapon, that one with it would be able to rule the universe, etc.
"If the statement is only valid in the context of its setting, or if it holds up in comparison with other settings?"
>Read up on the answer to the second one.
So no, it meets the statement checks, and doesn't contradict anything, it's useable.
"The only other "supporting feat" that I can think of is in the first episode when Moon says "the wand will blow up the universe", or something along those lines, which was clearly not serious and even at face value wouldn't warrant anything above a "possibly" rating."
>This is completely false in every regard:
^Firstly, nothing about this scene points to being "not serious", especially the way this episodes shows a non-serious scene.
An example:
^The scene after the first one is non-serious and played for laughs
^This scene, which even then is lowkey developing later story points
The way Moon delivers the information to Star is to warn her about the wand and to show (in the scene after) how she isn't ready for the responsibility.
Now let's go under the statements, category:
Statements
Regarding how to gauge the reliability of statements about characters. The answer depends on the person saying it. Let's make a hypothetical example. "The Green Knight is stated in-universe to be invincible. So far, he has taken every single attack thrown at him on the chin and either picked...
vsbattles.fandom.com
"Option 2: The person is an educated wizard who has been researching this character and experimenting on him with his most destructive magic. In this case, the source is more reliable, but still not completely believable. He is stated to be invincible. In truth, he is only invincible in comparison to whatever this wizard could dish out. A low fantasy "indestructible" is our city-block level."
Moon is a member of the royal magic high commission and was a user of the royal magic wand herself so she'd have no reason to lie here or not understand what she's talking about, now let's go over some of the questions regarding statements:
"If the source of the statement is reliable?"
Moon is definitely reliable, as said prior she's a member of the royal magic high commission, and a user of the royal magic wand, so she wouldn't say things if they weren't meant to be serious/correct regarding it's power, especially since in context she's warning Star of the dangers of it. Moon is not characterized as an over-worrying mother either, so she'd have no reason to be exaggerating.
"If the statement conflicts with the story or feats of the character?"
>It doesn't as Skywene can nuke dimensions, Toffee can nuke OP, who at the very least, is 3-C, and Magic wand has consistent statements of being the strongest weapon, that one with it would be able to rule the universe, etc.
"If the statement is only valid in the context of its setting, or if it holds up in comparison with other settings?"
>Read up on the answer to the second one.
So no, it meets the statement checks, and doesn't contradict anything, it's useable.
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Did you not read what either of us had to say on the matter earlier?
"Also, what is your reason for dimensions being less than universes exactly? Is it just because of the names? That's not a good reason if so either. The whole point of the names is that it's revolving around the main interest of the dimension. You can literally just use Earth as an example of this too. Earth, as a planet, is most certainly not the size of a universe. However, it is in its universe as the focal interest." - Me
"Also to note, earth dimension is a great example of this, dimensions names are based off the focal point/point of interest of a dimension, that's why irrelevant dimensions like the one Skywene blew up had just some random numbers added to it, there was no point of interest, so no dimension they enter is the entire size of the dimension but the focal point." - Giver
If your idea of something being false is ignoring an argument that doesn't suit your narrative, then I have to apologize but that's not how being false works. Mewni's not just a planet either. You can see even in the opening it has stars up in the sky. So can you explain how Mewni is somehow just a planet even though it has a starry sky? Would you care to explain in the actual link you gave for the Bounce Lounge being a planet, the picture has stars? Would you care to explain why Marco treats both dimensions and parallel universes as being synonymous? I'll wait.
>Calls it a bad argument
>Proceeds to give absolutely no examples to illustrate your point
Ironic.
You make it sound like they have like 30 different anti-feats and hype this point up a lot. Please actually give evidence or your argument is null and void. I gave you like six bullet points worth of information, and you decided to return with something absolutely baseless.
That's not what circular scaling is. And by circular scaling, I believe you mean circular reasoning.
"A type of reasoning in which the proposition is supported by the premises, which is supported by the proposition, creating a circle in reasoning where no useful information is being shared. This fallacy is often quite humorous." - https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Circular-Reasoning
Yeah, what I'm saying is not circular reasoning. All I said was that for the physically Tier 2 characters, all of their major losses or moments of being hurt involve them triumphing over someone else who has shown to be comparable to the Tier 2 extent of magic and/or actually having Tier 2 feats themselves such as Omnitraxus. Enlighten me how Solarian Warriors upscaling from Globgor upscaling from Omnitraxus who embodies space-time or upscaling from Star, who has shown multiple Tier 2 feats with magic is somehow circular scaling.
If you really believe that's what circular scaling is, then surely you wouldn't mind making a wiki-wide CRT saying we need to downgrade anyone who gets their tiering of powerscaling, wouldn't you?
You say this, but you don't give any actual reasoning. Imagine if I just said "no" to every single one of your points. I'm pretty sure you'd tell me that's not a refute. The same applies for baseless statements without evidence.
Can you tell me where in that video the past queens are helping them? They are literally just standing there to watch it happen. Everyone who is erasing the Realm of Magic was explicitly in a Butterfly Form. They were not. Put two and two together.
It's a pretty powerful source... Logic.
You never replied to the fact Giver postulated how Omnitraxus would've just become one with after Glossaryck created him. As far as the thread is concerned, you've not debunked diddly squat until you actually address that point.
As for the other statement, I don't see why it wouldn't be literal. Omnitraxus' job is to literally manage the multiverse. If it were just simply in reference to stopping people in it, that could people applied to any of the MHC too, yet Glossaryck makes the note explicitly to Omnitraxus.
Here.
Father Time said she damaged time across the multiverse by doing the spell where she stopped it because of her improper usage of it.
How is it headcanon at all? We see Marco and Star's cheeks glowing as they are teleported out of the decaying Realm of Magic back to their homes. Then, not long after, the entire multiverse is just suddenly in one. It's pretty self-evident they are the cause of the multiverse coming together because the whole point was that nothing could separate them. You arguing it's headcanon goes against the entire narrative, the themes, and the general logic of the finale.
Also, you think it's that just because of magic dying? First of all, the dimensions are naturally separated. Hekapoo being a thing is like the only reason people can go across them aside from traveling through the Realm of Magic. Adding to that, Star's tapestry depicted that the worlds would still be separated, even after she succeeded in destroying the magic. Hell, the reason why Star and Marco even stayed in the Realm of Magic was because of this.
All of this only serves to support the point that it was actually because of Star and Marco and not your jank alternative, no offense. Everything you're arguing thus far goes against the show itself.
I don't mean to be rude, but it honestly seems like you didn't even watch Season 4 at all with some of these refutes. Like, saying the magic was the reason why the multiverse fused when the exact opposite was said makes me incredibly skeptical on your points. Also, you gave absolutely no evidence in your refutes. You gave like one or two sentence replies that didn't even fully address what was being argued. Why are you going to oppose a thread that you're not going to put any actual time and real effort into addressing?
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Ok, how about this. Why don't you post the scan from the book itself here first.
So you're going to blatantly ignore how that's objectively false, and that it wasn't the actual sky that shrank, because you can quite literally see the sky behind him after he shrinks?
So why didn't the space-time end then?
If Omnitraxus is and you scale casual Toffee to him and you assume he absorbed his power and you proceed to scale people of him, then yes. You can't avoid that it all circles back around.
I literally didn't. You just said that I did, all I did was point to something I was referring to and was more convenient to post the wiki article than to go search through episodes and post a screen shot. And you keep trying to falsely try to make it appear as if that's all my argument is in order for you to discredit it.
You keep saying strawman, when all you do is strawman yourself.
And you keep ignoring my argument. The only way your "argument" of fusing those statements is legitimate is if the conclusion itself is true.
You don't even realize why I said you're using circular logic did you? Refer to my comment above, you completely miss my point.
Please stop using words you don't know the meaning of.
And that's just he multiverse trying to fix itself? Like we literally see happen directly?
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Giver and Ploz are making more sense tbh.
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Also to double down on the point of the "how do we know it's not the focal point" in the episode "Out of Business" Quest Buy is shutting down and literally disappears completely and no one treats it as the disappearance of a dimension but just the store, the dimension is still considered a thing.
Rhombulus also makes mention that Zedlord blew up a planet rather then him destroying a dimension.
There's also Helios who says he's going to devour the entire planet (Earth) which is the main focal point of the Earth dimension yet he doesn't state he's going to devour the dimension, so they do not consider the "focal point" being destroyed the destruction of the dimension, they consider the entire dimension being destroyed the destruction of the dimension, what a shocker.
Rhombulus also makes mention that Zedlord blew up a planet rather then him destroying a dimension.
There's also Helios who says he's going to devour the entire planet (Earth) which is the main focal point of the Earth dimension yet he doesn't state he's going to devour the dimension, so they do not consider the "focal point" being destroyed the destruction of the dimension, they consider the entire dimension being destroyed the destruction of the dimension, what a shocker.
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So you're giving input and calling this wrong despite the fact that you've actually never read before? Yeah, you should've been just asking for scans from the bat, not making random arguments that were false and made from ignorance. Like, I'm not trying to be rude, but you are wasting everyone's time if this is how you've been approaching these arguments.
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Calm down with your aggression. Both you and Giver have been nothing but hostile because someone disagreed with you.So you're giving input and calling this wrong despite the fact that you've actually never read before? Yeah, you should've been just asking for scans from the bat, not making random arguments that were false and made from ignorance. Like, I'm not trying to be rude, but you are wasting time if this is how you've been approaching these arguments.
And yes I have read it. Nice assumption.
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Nah, Giver's been pretty tame. That's not why I'm being aggressive. It's that you were arguing about a scan being wrong when you just asked to see it like after multiple replies. That would be the definition of wasting time, and you would literally annoy anyone that way.
If you've seen it, then you should have no problem discussing it and needing to see it again.
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Neither you nor Giver have been even slightly tame. You've been nothing but rude since either of your posts.
I asked to see it after multiple replies when I realized that there was no reasoning with them.
Just because both of us have seen it doesn't mean that we should be arguing about a scan no one but us can claim the validity without any evidence on what is said.
This scan should've been provided the first time they made the argument.
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Neither have you. Your first reply to both of us involved you saying all of our points were just wrongful headcanons and being incredibly dismissive of our points. Most of what you are perceiving as being rude is just being blunt with facts.
We talked about this earlier. There was a scan that mentioned that far before you even touched this thread.
No one else is discussing this aside from you, me, and Giver. It's irrelevant to bring up if all parties know what we're talking about. That's pretty much what you've been doing this whole time when giving very few links.
It already was.
Please stay on track and reply to the points. This isn't an argument on he said, she said. I'll tone down, but you need to stop being so dismissive if you want this discussion to go somewhere.
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Now you're just lying. That was my second post. After both you and Giver's have already proven to be extremely hostile and aggressive. And me calling your points headcanon isn't being rude it's just an objective fact. Using your own interpretation with no evidence to suggest anything is literally guesswork and headcanon, there is no other way to word it.
So instead of you throwing jabs and continuing to be aggressive you could've just pointed to there.
It is completely relevant, because this isn't a casual conversation in a chat, it's a revision.
Which you could've pointed to instead of being rude.
I am completely on track, you are the one that created this discussion. And I'm not being dismissive.
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“Ok, how about this. Why don't you post the scan from the book itself here first.”
>https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...1025/Screen_Shot_2018-10-15_at_7.51.05_PM.png
Here you go.
“So you're going to blatantly ignore how that's objectively false, and that it wasn't the actual sky that shrank, because you can quite literally see the sky behind him after he shrinks?”
>Where did I say the sky shrank? Literally read my comment, I said he shrunk himself down.
Also you literally see the galaxy itself shrink:
You also see him return back to the sky form after he says “Omnitraxtus Prime has spoken”:
Also oh no a background?! It’s almost like this dude can go inside of himself:
https://youtu.be/-M2-WZRNo2g?t=74
So no, it’s not objectively false, not my fault you’re misunderstanding my comment and the scene.
“So why didn't the space-time end then?”
>I already answered this, I hope you realize absorbing one’s power doesn’t = you become the exact thing they were. He contains omnitraxus prime’s power he isn’t literally omnitraxus prime. Also I already gave an alternative point to this which is he damaged omnitraxus prime’s avatar on a scale his true form could not come back and interact with reality and I already proven above how he can make avatars and how he does it regularly.
“If Omnitraxus is and you scale casual Toffee to him and you assume he absorbed his power and you proceed to scale people of him, then yes. You can't avoid that it all circles back around.”
>Why does absorbing his power = Toffee is now physically tier 2? What? I’m pretty sure absorbing a power on this wiki from the profiles I saw doesn’t make you the same physical tier as it unless you’re like, specifically stated to be so, and the Magic High Commission easily lost to him + he uses shields to block attacks from them, so no he doesn't physically get amped to tier 2:
“I literally didn't. You just said that I did, all I did was point to something I was referring to and was more convenient to post the wiki article than to go search through episodes and post a screen shot. And you keep trying to falsely try to make it appear as if that's all my argument is in order for you to discredit it.”
>I sent a link that directly showed that, and you literally just admitted in this comment you used a wiki link apart of your argument, it doesn’t matter the reason why you did it for the fact of the matter is you used a wiki article and I have link that directly proves that, so this is objectively false. Also no, I used it specifically for your dimension point cause that’s literally the only source of “evidence” you gave and your own evidence backfired against you.
“You keep saying strawman, when all you do is strawman yourself.”
>This is irony at it’s finest. I’ll explain this as simply as possible, I’m going to directly quote what you said then what I said:
“Having "all the power in the universe" doesn't actually translate to universal AP, that's completely nonsensical, even at face value.”
This is what you said objectively.
Now let’s ready what I said:
“Skywenne can destroy dimensions which are universes and at worse OP embodies the time dimension he and father time reside in, there's also consistent statements of the wand being able to destroy the universe, being all the power in the universe and the most powerful relic in existence which would scale it above Low 2-C objects such as the box of truth.”
As you can see here I used the statements to say that it would scale to a Low 2-C object, not that the statements themselves are Low 2-C.
Now let’s look at what a strawman is:
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Strawman-Fallacy
“Substituting a person’s actual position or argument with a distorted, exaggerated, or misrepresented version of the position of the argument.”
If you are going to try to tell me that you saying I used my argument to say having all of the power in the universe is universal AP when I clearly show and explain that I said that I used the statements explanation of its power to scale it to a random Low 2-C object, isn’t a strawman, you do not know what a strawman is or you do not understand what you were arguing to begin with.
“And you keep ignoring my argument. The only way your "argument" of fusing those statements is legitimate is if the conclusion itself is true.”
>I didn’t ignore it, I directly commented on it in my reply, but allow me to say this again. That’s not at all valid nor true lmao. My premise is that it is consistently stated to be the most powerful object thus it should scale above a random object that’s a certain tier. This is a consistently used method btw to scale objects on the wiki, I mean look at these:
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Light_Force
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Kratos_(Norse_Mythology)
So no it’s not legitimate if my conclusion is true, these statements are true on their own and they lead to the conclusion which is true.
It’s literally in laymans:
“If the Wand is the strongest object in existence, then it scales to the Box of Truth”
There’s nothing wrong with that, it’s a simple if P then Q statement.
https://sites.math.northwestern.edu/~mlerma/courses/cs310-05s/notes/dm-logic.pdf
“You don't even realize why I said you're using circular logic did you? Refer to my comment above, you completely miss my point.”
>No I very much did realize and outright debunked that.
“Please stop using words you don't know the meaning of.”
>I know the meaning of the word, it seems you don’t.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitchens's_razor
“Hitchens's razor is an epistemological razor expressed by writer Christopher Hitchens. It says that the burden of proof regarding the truthfulness of a claim lies with the one who makes the claim; if this burden is not met, then the claim is unfounded, and its opponents need not argue further in order to dismiss it.”
I showed you proof of why Star and Marco were the ones that merged it, your refute provided no evidence to the claim, which you have an obligation to send as you’re making a claim and thus I am allowed to dismiss it.
And that's just the multiverse trying to fix itself? Like we literally see happen directly?”
>Why would the multiverse try to fix itself by merging into one? Like what? This is a random assumption that comes out of nowhere. Nothing at all implies the multiverse is damaged or beyond repair after they destroy the realm of magic.
>https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...1025/Screen_Shot_2018-10-15_at_7.51.05_PM.png
Here you go.
“So you're going to blatantly ignore how that's objectively false, and that it wasn't the actual sky that shrank, because you can quite literally see the sky behind him after he shrinks?”
>Where did I say the sky shrank? Literally read my comment, I said he shrunk himself down.
Also you literally see the galaxy itself shrink:
You also see him return back to the sky form after he says “Omnitraxtus Prime has spoken”:
Also oh no a background?! It’s almost like this dude can go inside of himself:
https://youtu.be/-M2-WZRNo2g?t=74
So no, it’s not objectively false, not my fault you’re misunderstanding my comment and the scene.
“So why didn't the space-time end then?”
>I already answered this, I hope you realize absorbing one’s power doesn’t = you become the exact thing they were. He contains omnitraxus prime’s power he isn’t literally omnitraxus prime. Also I already gave an alternative point to this which is he damaged omnitraxus prime’s avatar on a scale his true form could not come back and interact with reality and I already proven above how he can make avatars and how he does it regularly.
“If Omnitraxus is and you scale casual Toffee to him and you assume he absorbed his power and you proceed to scale people of him, then yes. You can't avoid that it all circles back around.”
>Why does absorbing his power = Toffee is now physically tier 2? What? I’m pretty sure absorbing a power on this wiki from the profiles I saw doesn’t make you the same physical tier as it unless you’re like, specifically stated to be so, and the Magic High Commission easily lost to him + he uses shields to block attacks from them, so no he doesn't physically get amped to tier 2:
“I literally didn't. You just said that I did, all I did was point to something I was referring to and was more convenient to post the wiki article than to go search through episodes and post a screen shot. And you keep trying to falsely try to make it appear as if that's all my argument is in order for you to discredit it.”
>I sent a link that directly showed that, and you literally just admitted in this comment you used a wiki link apart of your argument, it doesn’t matter the reason why you did it for the fact of the matter is you used a wiki article and I have link that directly proves that, so this is objectively false. Also no, I used it specifically for your dimension point cause that’s literally the only source of “evidence” you gave and your own evidence backfired against you.
“You keep saying strawman, when all you do is strawman yourself.”
>This is irony at it’s finest. I’ll explain this as simply as possible, I’m going to directly quote what you said then what I said:
“Having "all the power in the universe" doesn't actually translate to universal AP, that's completely nonsensical, even at face value.”
This is what you said objectively.
Now let’s ready what I said:
“Skywenne can destroy dimensions which are universes and at worse OP embodies the time dimension he and father time reside in, there's also consistent statements of the wand being able to destroy the universe, being all the power in the universe and the most powerful relic in existence which would scale it above Low 2-C objects such as the box of truth.”
As you can see here I used the statements to say that it would scale to a Low 2-C object, not that the statements themselves are Low 2-C.
Now let’s look at what a strawman is:
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Strawman-Fallacy
“Substituting a person’s actual position or argument with a distorted, exaggerated, or misrepresented version of the position of the argument.”
If you are going to try to tell me that you saying I used my argument to say having all of the power in the universe is universal AP when I clearly show and explain that I said that I used the statements explanation of its power to scale it to a random Low 2-C object, isn’t a strawman, you do not know what a strawman is or you do not understand what you were arguing to begin with.
“And you keep ignoring my argument. The only way your "argument" of fusing those statements is legitimate is if the conclusion itself is true.”
>I didn’t ignore it, I directly commented on it in my reply, but allow me to say this again. That’s not at all valid nor true lmao. My premise is that it is consistently stated to be the most powerful object thus it should scale above a random object that’s a certain tier. This is a consistently used method btw to scale objects on the wiki, I mean look at these:
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Light_Force
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Kratos_(Norse_Mythology)
So no it’s not legitimate if my conclusion is true, these statements are true on their own and they lead to the conclusion which is true.
It’s literally in laymans:
“If the Wand is the strongest object in existence, then it scales to the Box of Truth”
There’s nothing wrong with that, it’s a simple if P then Q statement.
https://sites.math.northwestern.edu/~mlerma/courses/cs310-05s/notes/dm-logic.pdf
“You don't even realize why I said you're using circular logic did you? Refer to my comment above, you completely miss my point.”
>No I very much did realize and outright debunked that.
“Please stop using words you don't know the meaning of.”
>I know the meaning of the word, it seems you don’t.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitchens's_razor
“Hitchens's razor is an epistemological razor expressed by writer Christopher Hitchens. It says that the burden of proof regarding the truthfulness of a claim lies with the one who makes the claim; if this burden is not met, then the claim is unfounded, and its opponents need not argue further in order to dismiss it.”
I showed you proof of why Star and Marco were the ones that merged it, your refute provided no evidence to the claim, which you have an obligation to send as you’re making a claim and thus I am allowed to dismiss it.
And that's just the multiverse trying to fix itself? Like we literally see happen directly?”
>Why would the multiverse try to fix itself by merging into one? Like what? This is a random assumption that comes out of nowhere. Nothing at all implies the multiverse is damaged or beyond repair after they destroy the realm of magic.
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Also let's not play the "X has been hostile" card, at worse it's aggressive comments, oh well, it's not like direct insults or anything have come out. Let's stick to the facts, not to whose been hostile, it's a waste of time and not relevant to the thread.
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What I'm saying is on point. This was the last thing you said before Giver and I replied. Your next reply was putting it all in one bunched up thing.
>"Are we seriously using visuals that aren't literal and just for as proof now?"
>"Pretty bad argument. And they do have anti feats, all of them, besides Glossaryck have been hurt by their random attacks that haven't shown anywhere near the potency of Low 2-C."
>"This is headcanon."
>"Another headcanon. That's never explained why the dimensions merged together, for all we know it could be because of magic dying."
>"Headcanon. We quite literally not know why the multiverse merged together."
One thing here has you questioning if someone is logical through visuals. One thing here has you outright calling an argument bad. Three things here have you being dismissive of points as being headcanons, one without any actual explanation. I won't deny I was being blunt, but you aren't being honest here right now.
Why would I have to though? Is it not a fair assessment that you'd read a thread before commenting on the details of it? I am aware you said you didn't read everything beforehand, but you've had a lot of time since then to make sure you've covered everything. That's only fair since you were called here to give your input.
Why are you just now making a big deal out of this? We've asked you at multiple points to provide instances and you've given very little. Also, we wouldn't need to post it because it already was. Giver and I haven't been treating this as a casual conversation as we've given scans, idk about your outlook though.
There is a difference between being blunt and being rude.
I told you I am willing to continue this conversation back on topic. You're the one who made a reply trying to get the last word in. Look, Giver put it pretty simply. This is derailing. You can reply to this if you want, but I'm not going to counter again. I'm trying to extend the olive branch and your response is trying to snap it right now.
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Thank you.
And this is the most important point I wanted to focus on, and why goes on top of dimensions being inconsistent. She says she wanted to blow something up, and wanted to go bigger than a mountain and later clarifies that she intends to rip the earth in two and then blows up the "dimension". She outright stating she was going to blow up a planet and then uses that to parallel a dimension, on top of the myriad of times the word planet and dimension have been interchangeable in the show, is why I say she doing a Low 2-C is dodgy and shouldn't be used.
You literally said "he embodies the sky and shrunk". Which is what I was referring, and almost as if those galaxies isn't an actual galaxy and just a visual effect. Enforced by the fact that you yourself state.
Literally all your points you use go against your argument.
That that isn't a literal galaxy and it's just a visual effect.
Both of those reasons are outright headcanon, and neither explain why space-time didn't end.
It inadvertently scales back to him because his casual blasts before he even "absorbed" Omnitraxus were Low 2-C.
Now you're literally making up arguments I literally never used.
And you're continuing to strawman. You're completely ignoring every single other comment I posted in regards to this that shows I never did what you claim I did.
It's not a valid method at all.
You used a statement that called it the most powerful object, by the most unreliable character in the whole show, and you tried to fuse it with another completely disconnected event that would only make sense if the conclusion was true in the first place.
This is only true if it was those two statements weren't completely disconnected from eachother and were stated by a reliable character. Neither of those requirements you meet.
So you're either intentionally ignoring it, or you're just not realizing what I'm saying.
How is that out of no where.... We know the multiverse is connected because of magic, take magic out of the equation and what happens?
I agree. Tell your pal Ploz to drop it.
So you quite literally posted the evidence that you're wrong and you're trying to argue you're .... right?
Because I asked for it, and instead of you being reasonable you chose to be rude.
I've haven't not given anything that I've claimed. No idea what you're talking about here.
I agree, you're being the latter, as you yourself admitted.
You started this discussion because you couldn't resist to throw a jab at me. Then when I responded to that, you continued to not only admit you were intentionally aggressive but kept pushing this discussion. And now you're trying to get out of it as if I'm the one that "replayed first"? That's just deflecting.
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Stop arguing over who's being hostile and what-not and go back to just debating.
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^We're ready to move on Og, I already told you. I dropped it my last reply, I'm wanting to hear your thoughts on the actual scan now. Plz stop getting hung up on this.
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^This
That was so childish going on "tell your buddy that", like you're a mod act like it.
Now let me write my reply.
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You're now continuing to throw jabs on a random person on the internet just because they have a different opinion than you on pixels. Right as you quote a post saying that you should drop doing exactly what you're doing calling it "childish".
Peak hypocrisy right here.
Peak hypocrisy right here.
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Og, you're the only one continuing anything right now. Legit just drop it dude.
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Ploz and Giver please stop continuing this.
Drop it now.
Drop it now.
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“Drop it!”
“No, you drop it!”
“No, you drop it!”
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This is getting ridiculous. Just reply to my points man and let's move on. I feel like I'm doing the faker scene from SA2 with you right now.
