Arrowverse CRT: Forces Of Nature

[ByArrow]

This thread is about abilities, profile fixes, range and tier upgrades that should be added to Forces Of Nature

The Speed Force

• Self-Sustenance (Type 1, 2 and 3): As a Force of Nature, they have no needs such as sleep, oxygen and food.
• Large Size (Type 10): The Speed Force is a 10-dimensional structure.[1]
• Resistance to Void Manipulation: Speed Force's will reaches the vanishing point[2]
• Acausality (Type 1): Is not affected by changes in the timeline (It was aware of the events of Flashpoint)
• Regeneration (Low-Godly):Scaling to The Sage Force
• Immortality (Type 3)
• Omnipresent
• Resistance to Existence Erasure: Speedsters who enter The Speed Force are not erased from existence.
• Summoning: It summoned Khione to Star Labs.

The Sage Force

• Self-Sustenance (Type 1, 2 and 3): As a Force of Nature, they have no needs such as sleep, oxygen and food.
• Large Size (Type 10): Like The Speed Force, it exists[5] on the cosmic plane and encompasses the entire multiverse.
• Resistance to Void Manipulation: Scaling to The Speed Force
• Acausality (Type 1 and 4): Scaling to The Speed Force
• Regeneration (Low-Godly): regenerated from his body being destroyed by psychic wave[3]
• Power Bestowal: The Sage Force gave Cecile the ability to steal the powers of psychics, gave Barry teleportation, and many other abilities.
• Incorporeality: Is a sentient dimension
• Higher-Dimensional Existence
• Omnipresent: As a force of nature, it exists everywhere
• Sound Manipulation: It can mask own voice and can echo own voice

Let's move on to range upgrades.

The Speed Force
High Complex Multiversal: It exists on the cosmic plane and can give power and manifest on more than one, possibly an infinite number of infinite multiverses, reach the Negative Speed Force, and attack the Negative Forces Of Nature in the Cosmic Plane.[5]

The Sage Force
High Complex Multiversal: It exists on the cosmic plane[5] and can power and manifest the entire multiverse.

Tier and statistics upgrade

Since The Sage Force is a force of nature and harmed The Speed Force, it must scale to The Speed Force.

Let's move on to profile fixes

The Speed Force's intelligence justifications need to be improved

The Speed Force knows almost everything, as it spans the entire multiverse and outside of the multiverse. Even though it had never met him, it knew who Chester was and knew who Khione and her powers. It was aware of the events of Flashpoint. DeVoe admitted requiring access to the Speed Force in order to gain actual omniscience.

Those in agreement: @ByAsura @FinePoint

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

Bruh you have to add scans for those haxes . Not to link the hax pages.

This thread is about abilities, profile fixes, range and tier upgrades that should be added to Forces Of Nature

The Speed Force

• Self-Sustenance (Type 1, 2 and 3): As a Force of Nature, they have no needs such as sleep, oxygen and food.
• Large Size (Type 10): The Speed Force is a 10-dimensional structure.
• Resistance to Void Manipulation: Speed Force's will reaches the vanishing point
• Acausality (Type 1): Is not affected by changes in the timeline
• Regeneration (Low-Godly):Can be regenerated from own energy
• Immortality (Type 3)

The Sage Force

• Self-Sustenance (Type 1, 2 and 3): As a Force of Nature, they have no needs such as sleep, oxygen and food.
• Large Size (Type 10): Like The Speed Force, it exists on the cosmic plane and encompasses the entire multiverse.
• Resistance to Void Manipulation: Scaling to The Speed Force
• Acausality (Type 1 and 4): Scaling to The Speed Force
• Regeneration (Low-Godly): regenerated from his body being destroyed by psychic wave)
• Power Bestowal: The Sage Force gave Cecile the ability to steal the powers of psychics, gave Barry teleportation, and many other abilities.
• Incorporeality: Is a sentient dimension
• Higher-Dimensional Existence
• Omnipresent: As a force of nature, it exists everywhere

Let's move on to range upgrades.

The Speed Force
High Complex Multiversal: It exists on the cosmic plane and can give power and manifest on more than one, possibly an infinite number of infinite multiverses, reach the Negative Speed Force, and attack the Negative Forces Of Nature in the Cosmic Plane.

The Sage Force
High Complex Multiversal: It exists on the cosmic plane and can power and manifest the entire multiverse.

Tier and statistics upgrade

Since The Sage Force is a force of nature and harmed The Speed Force, it must scale to The Speed Force.

Let's move on to profile fixes

Since Psych is The Sage Force's avatar, Psych's profile name needs to be changed to The Sage Force.

The Speed Force's intelligence justifications need to be improved

The Speed Force knows almost everything, as it spans the entire multiverse and outside of the multiverse. Even though it had never met him, it knew who Chester was and knew who Khione and her powers. It was aware of the events of Flashpoint. DeVoe admitted requiring access to the Speed Force in order to gain actual omniscience

I see no scan here so obv gonna disagree

Also can you plz provide me the profile of this character you are upgrading?

 

[Excellence616]

Always add scans and references when creating a crt

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Since Psych is The Sage Force's avatar, Psych's profile name needs to be changed to The Sage Force.

Barry is the avatar of the Speed Force, but he is Barry Allen, not the Speed Force; he merely wields its power through their cosmic connection. Likewise, Bashir is Bashir, not the Sage Force, and he is merely a conduit for its power.

Everything else looks a-okay; I haven't watched The CW's The Flash since the first season ended, though, so I'm not exactly up-to-date for how they portray the other cosmic forces (￣▽￣)ゞ *More prominently than the comics did, I presume. It just needs sources.

 

[ByArrow]

Barry is the avatar of the Speed Force, but he is Barry Allen, not the Speed Force; he merely wields its power through their cosmic connection. Likewise, Bashir is Bashir, not the Sage Force, and he is merely a conduit for its power.

Bashir is the physical form used by the sage force, just like the speed force uses nora.

 

[ByArrow]

Bruh you have to add scans for those haxes . Not to link the hax pages.

I see no scan here so obv gonna disagree

Also can you plz provide me the profile of this character you are upgrading?

Always add scans and references when creating a crt

I accidentally posted the scans before adding them.

Anyway, I added the scans and references and almost all of them were already things mentioned in their profiles.

 

[ByAsura]

I agree with everything that I haven't quoted.

Also, Harry explicitly says that the Speed Force has the same Existence Erasure Resistance, allowing Time Remnants to exist. Plus, it's how Savitar planned to survive in the S3 finale.

Regeneration (Low-Godly):Can be regenerated from own energy[4]

This one is very conditional, and needs some more context.

The Speed Force was only destroyed on a physical level (not truly physical, fyi, but that's the easiest way to describe it), and still existed as an elemental aspect of the multiverse, meaning the physical aspect could be restored.

Team Flash accomplished this by putting Iris West's remaining Speed Force (as she was no longer a speedster during its destruction, meaning she didn't use its energies all up like Barry) into a machine designed to generate a new, artificial Speed Force.

So, effectively, they regrew the Speed Force.

I have to disagree with that being Low-Godly. Even if we discount the machine, it can only be considered High because some of it still existed in Iris.

Since Psych is The Sage Force's avatar, Psych's profile name needs to be changed to The Sage Force.

Regeneration (Low-Godly): regenerated from his body being destroyed by psychic wave[3]

Disagree.

Avatars are kind of just physical manifestations. Nora even able to exist separately from the Speed Force when Ramsey Rosso infected it.

 

[ByArrow]

I have to disagree with that being Low-Godly. Even if we discount the machine, it can only be considered High because some of it still existed in Iris.

Since The Speed Force energy still existed, it would definitely return to its old self at some point. The machine just accelerated this process. And I think the Speed force energy fits better with the energy mentioned for Low-Godly rather than High. And as you said, the speed force was destroyed on the physical level in the easiest way to explain it and regained its physical form from its energy.

Disagree.

Avatars are kind of just physical manifestations.

For this reason, its name should be changed to The Sage Force, because psych is its physical manifestation.

Nora even able to exist separately from the Speed Force when Ramsey Rosso infected it.

I don't understand what you mean here.

And you didn't say why you disagreed with The Sage Force's Low-Godly.

 

[ByAsura]

Since The Speed Force energy still existed, it would definitely return to its old self at some point. The machine just accelerated this process.

That's not stated or implied in the episode, so we can't accept your conjecture as fact.

And as you said, the speed force was destroyed on the physical level in the easiest way to explain it and regained its physical form from its energy.

I specifically said that the remnant in Iris was an exception, and thus part of the physical aspect. The aspect of the Speed Force that was destroyed was the same aspect that gave Barry his powers, but, like I said, Barry's Speed Force energies still remained in his body until he used it up.

And I think the Speed force energy fits better with the energy mentioned for Low-Godly rather than High.

Speed Force energies like The Flash has and used to restore the Speed Force are demonstrably closer to electricity than something metaphysical (i.e, chi), so they'd fit under High's description of 'pure physical energy units'.

For this reason, its name should be changed to The Sage Force, because psych is its physical manifestation.

Cool, but Psych still isn't the Sage Force. It's not even a scenario like Pennywise because Psych is a separate person who was born and lived, and the Sage Force was created afterwards.

This would be like renaming Flash the Speed Force.

I don't understand what you mean here.

Avatars and the actual forces are connected, but separate. They're not the same thing/part of the same thing, unlike the Negative counterparts of Psych, Rivera and Deon.

And you didn't say why you disagreed with The Sage Force's Low-Godly.

My mistake. I thought at first that you were saying the Sage Force was destroyed, but now I'm realising that you're just scaling The Sage Force to Psych, which is fine.

 

[ByArrow]

That's not stated or implied in the episode, so we can't accept your conjecture as fact.

I specifically said that the remnant in Iris was an exception, and thus part of the physical aspect. The aspect of the Speed Force that was destroyed was the same aspect that gave Barry his powers, but, like I said, Barry's Speed Force energies still remained in his body until he used it up.

Speed Force energies like The Flash has and used to restore the Speed Force are demonstrably closer to electricity than something metaphysical (i.e, chi), so they'd fit under High's description of 'pure physical energy units'.

agreed. So can we scale The Speed Force to Sage Force?

Cool, but Psych still isn't the Sage Force. It's not even a scenario like Pennywise because Psych is a separate person who was born and lived, and the Sage Force was created afterwards.

So wouldn't it be better if we update/change psych's profile to Sage Force profile and list psych directly as its physical form?

 

[ByAsura]

Sure.

It'd probably be easier if we had separate profiles rather than renaming and reformatting Psych's existing one, especially when you take categories into account.

 

[ByArrow]

It'd probably be easier if we had separate profiles rather than renaming and reformatting Psych's existing one, especially when you take categories into account.

I was already thinking of creating profiles for other forces, I'll create a profile for the Sage Force as well

 

[ByArrow]

When I create profiles for forces, do I need to make a CRT to add their profiles to the Wiki?

 

[Excellence616]

When I create profiles for forces, do I need to make a CRT to add their profiles to the Wiki?

Yes

 

[ByAsura]

I don't think you will, in this case.

 

[ByArrow]

Bump

 

[ByArrow]

Bump

 

[FinePoint]

My sentiments mostly mirror ByAsura, and for the most part I agree with these changes.

The Speed Force being vaguely higher-dimensional I believe is pretty self-evident just from the show, however:
I would like to see a more specific scan of it being "10-dimensional" in particular, especially since "dimension" is a term that's very often misused in these kinds of fiction.

Would it be possible for you to provide the actual page number and/or paragraph, rather than the entire novel?
I feel like I would be remiss to approve such a specific rating without actually reading the source myself.

 

[ByArrow]

The Speed Force being vaguely higher-dimensional, I believe that is pretty self-evident just from the show, however:
I would like to see a more specific scan of it being "10-dimensional" in particular, especially since "dimension" is a term that's very often misused in these kinds of fiction.

Would it be possible for you to provide the actual page number and/or paragraph, rather than the entire novel?
I feel like I would be remiss to approve such a specific rating without actually reading the source myself.

It has already been discussed and accepted in this thread that The Speed Force is a 10-dimensional structure and this is sufficient for tier 1.

 

[FinePoint]

It has already been discussed and accepted in this thread that The Speed Force is a 10-dimensional structure and this is sufficient for tier 1.

Thank you. That is exactly what I was looking for, so you can consider me in support of that as well now.