2-A Nasuverse revision

[TheUnshakableOne]

Passionlip is definetly servant tier.

Threre's different levels of BB, she gained power as the story progressed. Although, it was never clear when she created her Caine Space. Also, from what i read, or have seen, thre is no indicator how hard BB had to try when fighting Gawain though going by Foxtail (Which i considered to be a completely separate, alterante, and different canon/story than the Original game of CCC) BB would have died by Gawains NP, and apparently she had the poewr to create a country.

Meltlilith is the exception with Hax. She can grow stronger as long as there is something to feed her xp boost, but level 999 was the cap limit hence why her power stagnated after a while. She just couldn't grow any stronger. That is until Shinji reduced her level, and she had to run away from Gilgamesh to get stronger* Naturally as one's level grew stronger, their stats also increased and eventually they would have surpassed the naturally boundaries of "Normal" servant. Apparently level 1 is "Average Servant tier"

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

BB did have ☆ in all her stats, ☆ being the highest rank you can get in Servant ranking, I think.

Melt getting stronger isn't relevant in the heart, in her heart, it was changed to "default" and she got stronger that Lv. 1 anyway.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

What would her "Default" be?

Yeah, after she obtained that one goddess's power she could freely change her stats freely according to her will. Although the difference in CCC, and Foxtail. In CCC she seemed completely unhurt by it, and more or less laughed it off. in Foxtail she was in a weakened state wasn't she? I haven't completely caught up, but i been hearing that she got a large chunk of her power absorbed. Because... Of an alter ego that was never introduced in the Original CCC game from what the Encloypedia of the Game says.)

btw Meltlith has Law manipulation on the scale of the entire mooncell (Or was it only on the scale of imaginary number space??? I don't remember lol i just know its big), thats how she achieved her unqiue state of being. im still sure its "Acausality type 4" but i'll set that aside for wwwwaaaaaayyyy later down the line.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Melt at the start of Foxtail was completely missing all her powers except her combo attack which Kazuradrop couldn't take. Later she basically just becomes a much weaker BB

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

Melt's default should be somewhere around lategame CCC Playables, obviously.

What should we do about "Fake BB"? Make another Key for Melt, or give it to Kazuradrop? (The hood thingy on Fake BB does look kinda like Swinsuit Melt's hood lol)

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Honestly, she seems pretty weak. I'm not even sure its worth adding. I guess it would be a Fake BB key for Melt if anything

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

She did succesfully break Hakuno's psyche, something the true BB struggled to and got mad over.

 

[KnightOfSunlight]

So is the tier revision going through?

 

[Paul_Frank]

If the reason for the revision is just "people are upset over the tier" then there is no reason for this to go through

If the reason for this revision is you don't like the scaling then you should mention why because this is the same scaling we have used for a while and no one had a problem until they became 2-A

 

[KnightOfSunlight]

It's more that the 2-A rating comes from a handful of statements regarding the mooncell afaik, whereas the High 3-A/Low 2-C ratings came from things like BB's caine space.

Then again, I missed the revisions, so I don't know the full extent of the rating's reasoning.

 

[Paul_Frank]

This thread came in response to another thread where someone didn't like the fact that they had been upgraded to 2-A because they felt that the parallel worlds weren't real because they are in the mooncell.

The 2-A came from the various statements about the mooncell's parallel worlds coming from possibilies and the fact that there are infinite possibilities which caused BB to become 2-A via being the mooncell which then started the scaling.

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

Thing is... High 3A/Low 2C rating came from interpreting the Mooncell as infinite sized timeline, able to reset itself as many times as it wishes (After Sakura took control of the Mooncell, she just erases the events of CCC)

But, after we took a better look at Extella, where there are statements of possibilites = alternate timelines, and the Quantum Lock thingy interfering with possibilities stored in the Mooncell (It's a system to weed out unnecessary timelines, why would it do that to some simulated possibilities?), and a look at Last Encore, where Chakravatin has the Mooncell erase all its possibilities (which it refers as parallel worlds as well), we got ourself a 2-A Nasuverse

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Yeah, controversy alone is not a reason to put "possibly" and then slap on two other tiers.

If there was no proper reasoning to downgade them, then they shouldn't be.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

2-A is valid, there's no doubt about it. Scaling is the problem.

 

[KnightOfSunlight]

Personally, I think that BB, the titular character for all of this, needs two keys.

One for "Pre-Moon Cell Absorbtion", which is her CCC Self before she gets to the Mooncell. This key retains the High 3-A to Low 2-C ratings due to her not yet having absorbed the Mooncell, yet still having access to things like her caine space. Then, the "Post-Moon Cell Absorbtion" for after she absorbs the Moon Cell, which should have her 2-A rating.

Anyone that scales from Pre-Moon Cell BB gets High 3-A to Low 2-C ratings, because until the moon cell absorbtion BB had not shown her own 2-A feats iirc. Anybody that scales from Post-Moon Cell BB gets 2-A because the Moon Cell has 2-A statements.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

We could go with that solution and then adjust the scaling based on that.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I haven't seen evidence those moon cell calculated possibilities count as real universes.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Aside from the plot of several games, an event, the entire fact that people can die within them, and a lot more

yeah if you ignore all of the evidence there is no evidence

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Personally, I think that BB, the titular character for all of this, needs two keys.
One for "Pre-Moon Cell Absorbtion", which is her CCC Self before she gets to the Mooncell. This key retains the High 3-A to Low 2-C ratings due to her not yet having absorbed the Mooncell, yet still having access to things like her caine space. Then, the "Post-Moon Cell Absorbtion" for after she absorbs the Moon Cell, which should have her 2-A rating.

Anyone that scales from Pre-Moon Cell BB gets High 3-A to Low 2-C ratings, because until the moon cell absorbtion BB had not shown her own 2-A feats iirc. Anybody that scales from Post-Moon Cell BB gets 2-A because the Moon Cell has 2-A statements.

Pre Mooncell BB had power equal to the Mooncell and was able to warp all imaginary number space....


We also don't know when she created her Caine space which is an Infinite Sized 4th Dimensional area..

 

[Paul_Frank]

I feel like the power equal to the mooncell thing for pre mooncell BB would only apply to her hax

 

[KnightOfSunlight]

I feel that way too.

In other words, a massively smurfed High 3-A to Low 2-C

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

She gained power equal to the Mooncell after she gained control, and absorbed the 7 other layers of imaginary number space. So it's Multiversal level+ range of something at least.


However, she did fight the Mooncell to a stalemate for a duration of time. Finally won, and had to fight off the Mooncell's mind hax


5D mind hax incoming

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

I recall her creating Canine Space (named in-story as BB Special Dog Space) just to torture you, so it should be just after she revealed her true power.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

2-A hax... is not a thing.

Hax goes mostly on a dimensional level. Affecting a 2-A with mind manipulation is no better than affecting a Low 2-C. Same goes for death hax an such. Only hax that would scale to 2-A would probably be things like spatial manipulation, and even then that would be range.

Regardless, scaling is not what this thread is about. If you want to change that, either edit the OP or make a new thread.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

There was no mentioning of her Creating it at that moment if I recall the scene right, but I guess safest possible low end would be she created right then and there.

It's still apart of the layers of imaginary number space. It's just the bottom most layer

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Idk why people are bringing up other users thinking Servants cant blow up the planet, this is an arguement I haven't seen in quite some time so I'm not sure why it's even being brought up other than to complain. Anyway I disagree with "At least High 3-A, likely Low 2-C, Possibly 2-A" as that just seems like a clusterfuck and not necessary. Also let me point something out, throwing our accusations such as Matt ignoring evidence isn't going to do any good. If you wish to convince him do it properly. As for another issue, as far as I'm aware Fate CCC hasn't even been officially translated, it might be a good idea for someone who's a skilled translator here to play it and translate it themselves to see if the information is correct. Someone should also do the same for Fate Extra.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Ricsi-viragosi there is a lot of... I mean A LOT.. of characters on this wiki.. that have higher existential hax... It isn't just a nasuverse issue..

 

[Genericstickman]

2-A hax... is not a thing.

BlazBlue

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Idk why people are bringing up other users thinking Servants cant blow up the planet, this is an arguement I haven't seen in quite some time so I'm not sure why it's even being brought up other than to complain. Anyway I disagree with "At least High 3-A, likely Low 2-C, Possibly 2-A" as that just seems like a clusterfuck and not necessary. Also let me point something out, throwing our accusations such as Matt ignoring evidence isn't going to do any good. If you wish to convince him do it properly. As for another issue, as far as I'm aware Fate CCC hasn't even been officially translated, it might be a good idea for someone who's a skilled translator here to play it and translate it themselves to see if the information is correct. Someone should also do the same for Fate Extra.

A trusted translator on this wiki on the original thread agreed with the overall upgrade..

Fate/extra is officially translated...

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Yes and? Unless he played and translated the enitre thing then I don't care. That's how everyone else does it, Bleach was upgraded once the enitre translation for the novel came out and users such as Imade made sure the translations were correct. The same should be done here.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Ricsi-viragosi there is a lot of... I mean A LOT.. of characters on this wiki.. that have higher existential hax... It isn't just a nasuverse issue..

Higher D hax is normal. But "2-A" hax is not really a thing, except for some stuff like, again, spatial manip as far as potency goes.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

BlazBlue

You can name it, but it changes nothing. 2-A potency is like saying "Xavier has 3-A mindhax", not how it works.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

Shiroyasha would have to play 4 routes, explore every secret within the game to translate the entire thing. And what would be accomplished is, nothing particular. Maybe some more information regarding Tamamo, Nameless and Nero. Basic mechanics are the same in all routes and we already have translation of Gilgamesh's route.

"throwing our accusations". This cuts both ways. Evidence is posted in the revision thread which was accepted. Whether someone reads it or not is entirely up to them and not us.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Alright.. let's not get another thread closed for heated debating..


But I don't think we should invalidates fan translations, a huge amount of the wiki already used them for many other verses.

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

Yeah, fanslation will do, but would be great to include in-game shots to though, because the fanslation we have is just... there, open for downplayers to go "Hey! You're not giving me scans! You're just linking random website here!"

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

People being able to die in the Moon Cell calculated possibile universes isn't an argument for them being real. People can die in the Matrix as well.

 

[Genericstickman]

People can also die in the video game world in Scooby Doo and the Cyber Chase yet we don't say that the video game world is real, it even has it's own sentient life

 

[Paul_Frank]

Glad you guys focused on that one example and not the other examples you have been given numerous times while also ignoring context

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

People being able to die in the Moon Cell calculated possibile universes isn't an argument for them being real. People can die in the Matrix as well.

However, the simulations in the matrix cannot kill irl people directly, which the information constructs of the moon cell can.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

... I thought this might happen..

I think people on the previous thread may have overlooked the scans i posted of the Mooncell having literal infinite sized 4th dimensional spaces inside of it as it can contorl, and contain higher dimensions. We get reduntant statements of that..

Even if we assume IF WE ASSUME that the multiverse isn't inside of it. The Mooncell can still control the culling process of the multiverse outside of it. culling being of which the Multiverse has its universes created, and destroyed.. That is what the context would indicate as it does show that there is a multiverse involved with the Mooncell, and The Mooncell can interact with that multiverse. Which isn't the case because... ya know.. context shows a multiverse is existing within the Mooncell.... which my scans have links. Except those from the Extella Video game. that aws from a youtube video. i havne't made it that far into the game.

but this thread is going to turn into a heated thread.. we better close it now before someone else does..

Anyways, The Mooncell wanted to end humanity. BB tried to prevent that by absorbing the Mooncell. The Mooncell, and BB were having an intense fight. Going back and forth between whom has control over the body of BB. The Mooncell set a future for humanity to end. Which in turn would cause a catastrophe through the multiverse if not stopped.