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Only galaxies were actually destroyed going by the scans. In terms of range it is considerably higher though.How is “tearing the fabric of the multiverse” a 3-B feat?
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Only galaxies were actually destroyed going by the scans. In terms of range it is considerably higher though.How is “tearing the fabric of the multiverse” a 3-B feat?
Okay. Thank you for the evaluation.No, context is important here since The Everything Burn storyline isnt the norm for Surtur. This has been discussed before but I cant find the thread. In summary Surtur is amped there, his plan also includes using the god-spores and burning the otherworld which would cause a chain reaction that will burn the entire multiverse.
They stopped Surtur before the reaction, Surtur self destructed and releases the "flames of creation" which was only described as a "universal fire"
Odin also didnt negate anything, he just channeled the blast away
This is one of those feats that just seems keep popping up but without the full context aside from that its going to destroy the multiverse
Here.Where?
You do realize that In-Betweener would also be upgraded by this, right? Because again, Strange is 2-A/Low 1-C regardless of Chaos and Order, and In-Betweener is superior to him. He and Galactus would still be the same tier (even though Galactus had the upper hand throughout most of their fight and it seems to be implied In-Betweener is only holding his own because of his nature as Galactus’ opposite and not raw power).Also with In-Betweener it matters way more since his whole shtick in battle is to summon the direct opposite force to something to battle them, even being able to summon death herself to counter Eternals, so if the force he summoned is himself in order to combat Galactus I'd assume he'd be equal at the vert least
Also either way Strange had to resort to summon the 2 in order to beat In-Betweener so if you're saying nothing Strange can do outside one thing can beat Galactus then you're implying either way that he's above Chaos and Order which again, I really hope you see the problem with that
Because what is actually stated in the comic has more weight than you randomly assuming the writers don’t know something. Hell, you can assume his statement doesn’t include Chaos/Order, it’d still be 2-A/Low 1-C and moderately fed Galactus would still be superior, because he’s on par with Agamotto.Also In-Betweener also is vastly above Strange portrayal wise what with Strange needing to summon beings above him to win that fight, so I don't see why we're going the route of "oh Galactus is above everything Strange can do outside 1 option so we give that Key higher rating" instead of "Hmmm considering an equally powerful being who has beaten Strange as well is still below Strange's summons maybe we should consider this illogical and that the writers didn't consider some of Strange's other options" ?
Loki isn’t stating Surtur will just burn Otherworld, which will then cause the destruction of the multiverse. He says that Otherworld is connected to the multiverse and basically gives Surtur’s fire a pathway to reach everything.
IgHere.
You do realize that In-Betweener would also be upgraded by this, right? Because again, Strange is 2-A/Low 1-C regardless of Chaos and Order, and In-Betweener is superior to him. He and Galactus would still be the same tier (even though Galactus had the upper hand throughout most of their fight and it seems to be implied In-Betweener is only holding his own because of his nature as Galactus’ opposite and not raw power).
The other stuff listed for that Key isn't any better for scaling:Here.
Because what is actually stated in the comic has more weight than you randomly assuming the writers don’t know something. Hell, you can assume his statement doesn’t include Chaos/Order, it’d still be 2-A/Low 1-C and moderately fed Galactus would still be superior, because he’s on par with Agamotto.
The Eternity thing doesn’t make him equal to Eternity, it just makes him 6-D (as the Ancient One has already become “all-in-one” and is still beneath Dormammu, who was significantly beneath Eternity at the time). Which is consistent because Strange is far, far, FAR beneath Classic Dormammu (and Dormammu would even know this exact spell due to the events of Doctor Strange: Sorcerer Supreme).Eternity scaling is wack and Infinity Gauntlet is again scaling above Order and Chaos which I again really hope I don't need explaining
Only one there that doesn't seemingly cause scaling problem from said Key is fusing with Arioch but that has him as above Mephisto so
Omniverse is 2-A, that’s pretty obvious. And Mephisto literally said Ragnarök would pale in comparison.Omniversal Armageddon doesn't mean anything. At best you can say that this feat is at least 2-C due to Ragnarok thing.
Being beyond the concepts of space and time is Low 1-C.This doesn't mean that Asgard is a higher-dimensional place.
▪ Definition of the Omniverse heavily depends on context. You can't say it's clearly 2-A.Omniverse is 2-A, that’s pretty obvious. And Mephisto literally said Ragnarök would pale in comparison.
Being beyond the concepts of space and time is Low 1-C.
Omniverse is quite frequently used as a synonym for multiverse, which can be treated as 2-A in Marvel, depending on the context.Definition of the Omniverse heavily depends on context. You can't say it's clearly 2-A.
Several characters on the wiki use transcending space and time to reach Low 1-C. And with Marvel, specifically, it’s part of Eternity’s justification.Being beyond the concepts of space and time isn't Low 1-C.
▪ Omniverse in Marvel have two major definitions: collection of multiverses (size and scale of these multiverses are unknown) and collection of all of the fiction and reality. Can you provide some examples for 2-A definition of the Omniverse?Omniverse is quite frequently used as a synonym for multiverse, which can be treated as 2-A in Marvel, depending on the context.
Several characters on the wiki use transcending space and time to reach Low 1-C. And with Marvel, specifically, it’s part of Eternity’s justification.
The “all of fiction and reality” definition is only used once in a handbook iirc, and we don’t (and shouldn’t) use handbooks 99% of the time.Omniverse in Marvel have two major definitions: collection of multiverses (size and scale of these multiverses are unknown) and collection of all of the fiction and reality. Can you provide some examples for 2-A definition of the Omniverse?
You conveniently left out the part with the Eternity-Mask, which specifically references the wearer seeing space-time as a narrative.Being beyond the space and time =/= transcending the concepts of space and time. Eternity is Low 1-C because he has higher-dimensional statements and scales to Classic Dormammu whose realm is higher-dimensional.
▪ Yes it was used once but it never used as collection of infinite universes (if you have proof then you can provide it). In Al Ewing's Ultimates series "Omniverse" was used as the totality of the existence and in some classic series this term was used as collection of multiverses.The “all of fiction and reality” definition is only used once in a handbook iirc, and we don’t (and shouldn’t) use handbooks 99% of the time.
You conveniently left out the part with the Eternity-Mask, which specifically references the wearer seeing space-time as a narrative.
In Al Ewing's case, he said on Twitter that when he used Omniverse as a term, he meant the Multiverse.▪ Yes it was used once but it never used as collection of infinite universes (if you have proof then you can provide it). In Al Ewing's Ultimates series "Omniverse" was used as the totality of the existence and in some classic series this term was used as collection of multiverses.
▪ Being beyond the space and time =/= seeing spacetime as a narrative.
▪ We don't have any information about the size and scale of these multiverses. In Post-Retcon Beyonder's case it was stated that he will destroy "the multiverses...the past...the present...the yet to be", so it's pretty clear that these multiverses refer to collection of 4-D universes.Judging by Post-Retcon Beyonder’s last key, a collection of multiverses is still treated as 2-A so...
It’s the same principle. Also a synonym of the word transcend is “go beyond,” they aren’t fundamentally different things.
In Al Ewing's comics Multiverse = the totality of the existence (Universes, Higher Dimensions, Superflow, Neutral Zone, Far Shore etc.).In Al Ewing's case, he said on Twitter that when he used Omniverse as a term, he meant the Multiverse.
Well, technically transcending them isn't Low 1-C neither.▪ Being beyond the space and time =/= transcending the concepts of space and time.
Pointless to say but that last exchange is hilarious.
So based of this Surtur needs a note saying something akin to:The events in started way back in Fear Itself where Loki made a deal with Surtur to free him. Surtur went on a quest to gather energies etc. Anyway, in order to burn the multiverse Surtur needs the Otherworld because its the home of all magic and because its connected to every realm. The energy he gathered can only burn the 9 realms without the Otherworld. If its truly a multiversal fire then it shouldnt need the manchester god or the Otherworld. It seems that the energy he gathered can only burn the 9 realms but it can burn all realities under a specific scenario which requires the Manchester Gods, prep and the Otherworld.
This a consistent thing in Marvel, messing with the Nexuses like the Otherworld or Mkraan crystal will destroy the multiverse because of their nature as nexus points of realities.
There was another time he said it, I don’t remember exactly when though. If I find it, I’ll post it. Although Dormammu being equal to the five Hell Lords put together wouldn’t disprove the others being 2-A/Low 1-C, they would just scale to a lower end of it, basically making the scale: Doctor Strange < Skyfathers/Hell Lords < Dormammu =< Abstracts.Wait, on 2 separate occasions? I'm only familiar with the one from Doctor Strange: Sorcerer Supreme #1 (one before multiple permanent amps for Dormammu, may I add). Skyfathers and Hell Lords are sometimes portrayed as equals/relatives to Dormammu (hell, Loki even says Odin doesn't dread Dormammu and even compares him to Loki in Avengers #115), but in other times it has been said that Dormammu is equal to all the Hell Lords together (Hellcat #2). Also, out of curiosity, do we distinguish between an In-Realm and Out of Realm Odin here? Because it's been said multiple times that every Asgardian besides Thor is weaker outside of Asgard.