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1-A? TLT, The First Firmanent, Never Queen, Beyonders

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Living Tribunal

The First Firmanent

Beyonders

Never Queen

From my head, this would make 1-A:

Living Tribunal (see above)

Scathan (see above)

The First Firmanent (See above)

Never Queen (see above)

Beyonders (see above)

Protege (copied TLT powers)

G.E Doom (manifested the powers of the Beyonders)

HOTU Thanos (Above TLT)

Beyonder (Pre-Retcon) (plain 1-A, above TLT)

Ultimate Ultimates (Restrained TFF)

Possibly The Brothers pre-retcon (Although they could just be uknown)

Molecule Man
 
Wow. A Marvel Revision thread that I didn't make... Surprising change of pace.

This would also affect the Celestials as of Ultimates ( They can harm TFF ) . Problem is both Never Queen & TFF are treated canonically as comparable to Eternity. Hawk God is far weaker than Eternity BTW... So the first 3 should scale to Eternity too... Yeah.

I'll actually voice my opinion on the changes later. Though while I would like 1-A Cosmic Characters... It seems blatantly contradicted.
 
You forgot the Molecule Man.

Anyway, you can ask Matthew Schroeder to comment here. If he is fine with it, so am I.

That said, I am personally allergic to scaling between different canons, given that The Beyonder went through several retcons and the LT was not considered as strong back during the time of his original incarnation.

Also, I am not sure about Multi-Eternity, the First Firmament, or even the Never Queen being 1-A.
 
For Beyonder (Pre-Retcon):

  • "High 1-B | 1-A
Manifestations | The Beyond Realm/True Beyonder"

The Beyond Realm is his Non-Coporeal/True form, so you get the point why I had to point this out.
 
@Ant.

I tought theBeyonder was retcon thrice before his big nerf (When he was just a Cosmic being, a Inhuman and a part/extensio of the Multiverse) he is by far a mess when it comes to scaling.

From TLT the biggest change has been after his dead against the Beyonders, his powers didnt varie too much back then tbh he was the Multiverse's judge and as such the peak in the Marvel's cosmic herarchy, so canon is not so bad in his case.
 
Yeah, I am personally fine with scaling the Living Tribunal, the Beyonders, and the current Molecule Man to 1-A, but am not sure about scaling their statistics to a now retconned character, and would like to see more explicit proof for Multi-Eternity and the First Firmament, given that multiverses should logically be constructs of space and time.
 
They can be platonic concepts of space and time or something like that.

Just saying.
 
>LT is responsibe for all life in the multiverse and beyond

Pretty sure it was talking about One Above All and not LT
 
Yes, the Beyonders were only said to be greater than a 4-D spacetime continuum in that scan.
 
But they can still scale from LT if he gets 1-A. I'm aware of the contradictions, but I also know there is 1-A feats so you guys can decide, I'll be gone on a trip all of today soon. But Beyonders only being above 4th dimensional space is bull and you know that. Unless you want to downgrade abstracts to 2-B/High 2-A (whatever that tier would be lol)
 
I know that, yes, but that is how they were portrayed in that story.
 
Well, we wont downgrade them but we cant obviously use scans that said they're above 4-D to upgrade them to 1-A. Though, I'm not saying that they cant be 1-A
 
In this story, we basically have a recursive reality where scale is an illusion and where the highest level does not exist. This is a completely different model of cosmology than the one that is commonly used. It is difficult to correlate it with other versions. So we really can not use any scans from this story for updates.
 
@DarkLK & Sandman31

Agreed.
 
All I'm going to say is that:

I'm unsure if all those scans of TLT existing in "The Outside" would automatically qualify for 1-A. Him being transdual and above Multiversal Space and Time is much better, tho.
 
I mean technically if we use the stuff I found that implies The Nexus of All Realities > Eternity's Realm [Which I do have the scans for if anyone is interested] , basically everyone mentioned in the OP would be 1-A via scaling to it in some way, shape , or fashion. Albeit, that should be discussed after the Marvel Revisions Matthew plans to do get discussed thoroughly .
 
Well, we still have to wait until Matthew finds the time to organise these potential upgrades.
 
I am personally fine with scaling the original Living Tribunal, the Beyonders and the Molecule Man to 1-A, but am very uncertain about Multi-Eternity, the First Firmament or the Never Queen.
 
Outliers aside... The Phoenix Force did manage to keep up with God Emperor Doom temporarily, as well as the Infinity Gauntlet. I know that won't be accepted... But it is worth trying.
 
It was not able to cause any damage against Doom, and Marvel is notoriously inconsistent and irrational regarding its portrayal of comparative power levels.
 
Given your tendency for lots of extremely farfetched and speculative incoherent walls of text, I do not have the time and energy to spend much more effort on you anymore at this point, and I think that Matthew feels the same way. My apologies, but both of us only have a finite amount of available time and patience, and you have already taxed me to my limit in the past. Sandman31 might be willing to help, but I suspect that he will eventually grow tired as well.
 
Or to put it another way: I am probably generally one of the most patient and helpful staff members in this wiki, and you have still managed to make me too exhausted to spend much more effort on your antics.
 
Mind you, you seem like a nice person on a personal level, but I simply cannot deal with your neverending stream of incoherent speculative wall of text demands for enormous upgrades.
 
Never mind. I am in a depressed and tired mood, but I shouldn't take it out on you. My apologies.
 
Bump ... I'm not angry Antvasima. You are forgiven, and I understand your pain. I truly do. You're not the only one depressed. But... All I wanted was feedback about my recommendation for 'possibly 1-A' under those that scale to it , and believe me, it isn't anywhere near as bad as you're making it out to be + has far more evidence presented than prior . Plus , if that's accepted, it would make the 1-A feats above more viable to use for the characters above .
 
Okay. Thanks. I have just dealt with so many of your walls of text at this point, that I cannot muster the energy to check through them anymore.
 
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