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1-A? TLT, The First Firmanent, Never Queen, Beyonders

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Well, as far as I have understood, Matthew is planning to make major Marvel revisions within the next few months, but people keep being impatient and stressing us out before he is ready to proceed.
 
I was actually being patient . I wasn't planning on making a revision thread whatsoever... At least until Matthew decided to make his . But it seems the others did. So I captialized on it by showing some scans and then just waiting to see how they went.

And I appreciate you helping Azathoth. It means a lot.
 
Interesting @EoL ... Not sure if it'll be supportive of the 1-A rating... But interesting nonetheless.

Question though... Isn't Negative Zone connected to Crossroads of Infinity. There are two scans that imply this:

- http://2.bp.blogspot.com/bocCRGmcpi...jU4kw4HHZXLcSogeqtJ774xAqbL-kwzEgzz7WPk=s1600

- https://imgur.com/a/tPE82

If someone either destroys the Negative Zone, embodies the Negative Zone, or is beyond the edge of subspace that contains the Crossroads of Infinity within the Negative Zone... Could it possibly be assumed they be High 1-B ?
 
Wait, If Eternity will be upgraded to 1-A Death, Infinity, The Ultimate Ultimates and Chaos King should be upgraded to 1-A too because they are Eternity's equal.
 
I would appreciate if everybody would be far more patient and stop trying to rush us. It is only going to waste everybody's time. Please wait until Matthew is ready to initiate his revisions.
 
Marvel is mostly incoherent to me, so I still prefer if we wait until Mathew is ready to organise this, and he is currently busy with the Marvel speed revisions.
 
Well, it seems best to wait for Azathoth in any case.
 
Just got home. I will give my opinion on the stuff provided here, and try to stick to that. Hope it helps, in some way.

  • TLT transcending dualities
A couple things, here.

1. I am not sure why nondualism has started to be treated as some sort of evidence for 1-A, when 99% of the time, the fiction in question does not even mean something is completely beyond all forms of duality (alive/dead, existence/nonexistence, etc.). That's not even what it's used to mean a lot of times in things such as religion or certain forms of philosophy. It's not something that proves 1-A on its own, unless the way it's used is extremely specific, in which case, simply mentioning "non-duality" isn't even going to be the most important part. More importantly...

2. No, he very clearly doesn't. The Tribunal abides by a great many dualities, unless we're solely talking about those on the levels of the realities he governs over. The Tribunal has been fought and killed, twice actually, by very clearly dual beings. His first incarnation died to a race of beings who transcended his multiverse and had the capacity to harm abstracts, but said race also abided by their own higher form of time and were obliterated by the equivalent to a multiversal IED. His second incarnation was killed by the beings who embody the duality of chaos and order in the multiverse, specifically because nothing had cemented him as top dog in this new cosmos, yet. It would be weird to argue that the second Tribunal was somehow subject to dualism while the original wasn't (which even on its own would be questioned going off of what we actually know about him). This is an example of a character saying something and then it being shown to be false.

  • TLT transcends space and time
Yes, he exists beyond Eternity and Infinity (well...at least he used to. They can't really decide on that, now). This does not make him 1-A. He has been shown multiple times to operate on what is effectively just even higher dimensional space-time.

  • The First Firmament stuff
I'm not sure why this is supposed to be 1-A, or higher than he already is. Everything in the main multiverse is part of Eternity as well, which is part of why he's High 1-B. Eternity is a "Cosmos" composed of many realities/universes, while the Firmament was the original, composed of only one. He wants everything to be part of him again and to become more "simple". By his very nature, he would also obviously have to exist outside of Eternity, as he's an entirely separate "Cosmos". He's not completely "transcendent" of Eternity, or something. He's pretty easily defeated by the combined might of what amounts to several Eternities.

  • Quotes about the Beyonders
The first scan isn't at all impressive, as it very much intentionally cuts the last two panels off from the page, which DarkLK already pointed out above. The Eternity being transcended is the universal Eternity, with Kubik and Kosmos crossing a simple four-dimensional barrier to continue further beyond Eternity. I am unsure why the Beyonders being beyond the normal Marvel multiverse is supposed to be 1-A, either. This is the exact same overarching story that portrayed them as bound by their own form of time as well as being able to be "killed" by creations they had tied to the Marvel multiverse.

  • The Never Queen
Addressed before. The Never Queen exists outside of Eternity because she acts as a parallel to him. Being outside of Eternity does not grant someone complete transcendence to him. The Beyonders, for example, were "beyond" the Marvel reality. They weren't completely and utterly transcendent of it. They were just well above its heaviest hitters, and were able to kill them, but they did have to actually fight beings such as the Living Tribunal before doing them in.
 
Thank you for the evaluation Azathoth. Your analytical skills are excellent as usual.
 
Well, I am too busy with many different tasks to be able to properly commit to these types of threads nowadays.
 
Both TTF and Eternity should be atleast High1-B both surpassed The informations and concepts of high 1-B entities. And They also surpassed Infinite D. and the Concepts of the Multiverse/Omniverse..
 
perhaps they are just a "higher order of High 1-B" (transcending only the pseudo-platonic concepts of it) which is really Innerverse level instead, one more quirk about tiering thats never been clarified
 
Embodiment Of Lies said:
stronger than the abstract within the Eternity omniverse. He would scale to Lifebringer who getting an upgrade to high 1-B
Click to expand...
he doesnt scale to him everything that happend was because the cosmic hiearchy wasnt set that s why chaos and order could kill LT
 
Embodiment Of Lies said:
Boi Lifebringer stated Logos was beyond his description which make Logos=TLT> lifebringer.
Click to expand...
we dont know if logos = LT black panther powered by the tiger god defeated logos here you can read the ultimates 2
 
Given that Azathoth has elaborately rejected this, we should probably close this thread.
 
Embodiment Of Lies said:
@juliusz Do you know in the superflow it's not about power.... It's about metaphor so of course a King & darkness > Law (It was even stated)
Click to expand...
i know but the superflow is a part of the multiverse that LT is supposed to have dominion over
 
The 2nd Existential Seed said:
Outliers aside... The Phoenix Force did manage to keep up with God Emperor Doom temporarily, as well as the Infinity Gauntlet. I know that won't be accepted... But it is worth trying.
Click to expand...
Phoenix Force is High 1B (we have discussed this) so the feat is not incosistent. It was (White it seems) Phoenix Cyclops. The force was not at best but it makes sense.
 
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