Marvel Comics: Rune King Thor upgrade

[NHTkenshin2]

Should be simple lmao

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Those Who Shit Above In Shadow are most probably Beyonders

1. God of Stories Loki hypothesised that they may be “beyonders" (Loki: Agent of Asgard #17)
2. TWSAIS speech to Odin heavily mirrored the beyonders speech
   1. "Slay your enemies and all you desire shall be yours"
   2. "Nothing you dream of is impossible for us to accomplish"
3. When loki got outside of the Multiverse, they met TWSAIS (who are already implied by Odin to exist outside all realities), Implying Those Who Sit Above In Shadow exist in the “Land of Couldn't-Be Shouldn't-Be” also known as “The Outside"
   1. Lifebringer Galactus cannot exist inside the outside for too long, it is risky to him
   2. The Outside is beyond Multi-Eternities reach (scans 1, 2 and 3 from The Ultimates Vol. 2 #100 and scans 4 and 5 from The Ultimates (2016) vol. 3 #5)

Some other sketchy, but possible proof

1. Eternity states “What were the fates thinking when they let this insane travesty become realised?" when Thanos and Adam Warlock affected him and Infinity by interacting with a “Trans-dimensional nexus", Infinity states that the order that made these events occur existed on a higher level then The Living Tribunal
   1. “The Fates" here is likely reffering to The Norns, as that they have been occasionally called that
   2. TWSAIS provided The Norns with their powers, which implies that The Norns fate binds even Eternity and Infinity, and that TWSAIS are a higher order then even The Living Tribunal (Which would make sense when factoring in the possibility of TWSAIS being beyonders)

So um.. Yeah it seems like Lokis hypothesis was true
I do want to rename the justification for RKTs rating considering it caused a bit of a debate

.... Low Outerverse Level (is likely equal if not superior to Those Who Sit Above In Shadow, As that they directly referenced his strength when bargaining with him, to the point of proposing him to join them, Loki theorised that Those Who Sit Above In Shadows are likely Beyonders, which is consistent with them mimicking The Beyonders speech)

Yeah, Thor definitely scales to them, there is literally no reason why they didn't just one shot the guy when he could've destroyed the Looms of Fate
If they could've stopped him, they would have, they had all the time in the world to just one tap him into oblivion, but for some unknown reason they decided not to

That being said, I dont particularly know how we will handle the ratings though, but, i see 3 possiblities

1. “2-A, possibly Low 1-C, likely Low 1-A”
2. “2-A, possibly Low 1-A”
3. Solid “Low 1-A"

Now for speed TWSAIS will definitely be Immeasurable and Thor should scale considering they could've easily just blitzed him at any time

They should also get Outerversal range, as that they are capable of affecting yggdrasil from outside of 8th Eternity

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

Agree there was already a thread about but it got outvoted.

 

[Excellence616]

Agree

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Agreed

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

What was the justification for Loki and Verity being totally fine in the Outside along with TWSAIS?

 

[Eseseso]

Agree, but why is his low end 2-a?

 

[DarlingAurora]

Agree

 

[Recap_]

I agree

 

[ObberGobb]

I agree. Them probably being Beyonder's was already enough for me tbh, but the thing about Lifebringer Galactus and Eternity really solidifies it I think.

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

Agree, but why is his low end 2-a?

I think because he was superior to Destroyer Odin, who injured Celestials

 

[Recap_]

Agree, but why is his low end 2-a?

Thor destroys Yggdrasill.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

What was the justification for Loki and Verity being totally fine in the Outside along with TWSAIS?

plot hax from Loki

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Agree, but why is his low end 2-a?

I think it's based on Rune King Thor's current justification of being more powerful than The Destroyer at its most powerful

More powerful than The Destroyer at its peak

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

Slightly related note: if this upgrade goes through we should also try 1-A for Cosmic King Thor via absorption since he one-shot the Black Winter, who destroyed the entirety of the Sixth Multiverse and should be > Multi-Eternity

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Is someone willing to make a TWSAIS page?

 

[Eseseso]

How do we know that RKT > Amped Odin-Soul Destroyer (as in the one that fought the Celestials)?

 

[Recap_]

Is someone willing to make a TWSAIS page?

TWSAIS is Low 1-A?

 

[NHTkenshin2]

TWSAIS is Low 1-A?

If they get accepted as beyonders then they will be Low 1-A

 

[Recap_]

If they get accepted as beyonders then they will be Low 1-A

But l think then they should be 1-A.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

They will be, soon

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

I'm leaning towards agree here, but I want to be sure that the case is really strong. Other than the Beyonders hypothesis and TWSAIS existing in the Outside, are there any other pieces of 1-A evidence?

 

[Eseseso]

Neutral because I don't want it to solely be speculations that make TOWSAIS Low 1-A (the Beyonders are only 1-A with their combined energy).

 

[ObberGobb]

I don't think there is any 1-A evidence, but the Low 1-A evidence is pretty strong

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

Do we have other examples of the Outside being entirely hostile to less-than-low-1-A beings?

 

[ZoroNotZolo]

Following.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Are we going with solid Low 1-A here or the other 2?

 

[ObberGobb]

I support solid Low 1-A. I think the evidence is pretty clear cut.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

So a full rating for them possibly being Beyonders ?

I think it should be a Possibly Low 1-A then

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

We could push for solid low 1-A based on them existing in the Outside unharmed.

 

[ObberGobb]

It's not just Loki's hypothesis though. It is the fact that their speech to Odin was near identical to the Beyonder's speech from Secret Wars II, and the whole thing with the Outside.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

It's not just Loki's hypothesis though. It is the fact that their speech to Odin was near identical to the Beyonder's speech from Secret Wars II, and the whole thing with the Outside.

I'm aware, but the speech and Loki's hypothesis aren't really solid evidence to warrant a Low 1-A. For me, the Outside feat is far more interesting, as a direct scaling to Lifebringer Galactus can be made with that, so why not "X (scaling to Galactus), likely Low 1-A" ?

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

I'm aware, but the speech and Loki's hypothesis aren't really solid evidence to warrant a Low 1-A. For me, the Outside feat is far more interesting, as a direct scaling to Lifebringer Galactus can be made with that, so why not "X (scaling to Galactus), likely Low 1-A" ?

That's my line of thought as well. The speech and Loki's guess are fairly weak supporting evidence, but the Outside could be direct scaling

 

[ZoroNotZolo]

I'm aware, but the speech and Loki's hypothesis aren't really solid evidence to warrant a Low 1-A. For me, the Outside feat is far more interesting, as a direct scaling to Lifebringer Galactus can be made with that, so why not "X (scaling to Galactus), likely Low 1-A" ?

I agree with this line of reasoning.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

I checked Galactus profile, he actually is Low 1-A as the Lifebringer, I forgot that

But my line stills the same, we should go his scaling as main reason, and the beyonder scaling as secondary supporting evidence

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

What is needed to make this happen?

 

[Antvasima]

If Rune King Thor genuinely scales to The Beyonders, I suppose that this is reasonable. However, we do not seem to know for certain.

Also, I do not think that the modern Hickman and Ewing version of the Marvel multiverse cosmology reaches anywhere near Low 1-A in the first place, but nevertheless that is what we use at the moment.

@Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @Sandman31 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepme @Ehnkr2beboh @Elizio33 @LordTracer @MarvelFanatic119 @catzlaflame @Alonik @Gasper @Confluctor @Maverick_Zero_X @Lightning_XXI @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Tllmbrg @CrimsonStarFallen @Dark-Carioca @ObberGobb @Eseseso

Your input would be appreciated here.

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

If Rune King Thor genuinely scales to The Beyonders, I suppose that this is reasonable. However, we do not seem to know for certain.

Also, I do not think that the modern Hickman and Ewing version of the Marvel multiverse cosmology reaches anywhere near Low 1-A in the first place, but nevertheless that is what we use at the moment.

@Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @Sandman31 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepme @Ehnkr2beboh @Elizio33 @LordTracer @MarvelFanatic119 @catzlaflame @Alonik @Gasper @Confluctor @Maverick_Zero_X @Lightning_XXI @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Tllmbrg @CrimsonStarFallen @Dark-Carioca @ObberGobb @Eseseso

Your input would be appreciated here.

From what I understand, the core of the argument is that TWSAIS are low 1-A for existing comfortably in The Outside, where Lifebringer Galactus couldn't last for long. Their potentially being Beyonders is only textual support.

 

[LordTracer]

Low 1-A on the basis of being superior to Lifebringer Galactus seems fine to me, the Beyonder stuff is very meh since the only evidence is Loki’s theory and their speech being kinda similar to the Beyonder’s.

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

Low 1-A on the basis of being superior to Lifebringer Galactus seems fine to me, the Beyonder stuff is very meh since the only evidence is Loki’s theory and their speech being kinda similar to the Beyonder’s.

Those are similar to my own thoughts

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Eternity states “What were the fates thinking when they let this insane travesty become realised" when Thanos and Adam Warlock affected him and Infinity by interacting with a “Trans-dimensional nexus", Infinity states that the order that made these events occur existed on a higher level then The Living Tribunal

1. “The Fates" here is likely reffering to The Norns, as that they have been occasionally called that
2. TWSAIS provided The Norns with their powers, which implies that The Norns fate binds even Eternity and Infinity, and that TWSAIS are a higher order then even The Living Tribunal (Which would make sense when factoring in the possibility of TWSAIS being beyonders)

A bit, controversial but can be used... Maybe?