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KingPin0422
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  • Hey kingpin, when will you make your tier 11 revision thread? as tier 3 thread is already done. As soon as tier 11 will be revised your tier 3 definition can be applied.
    Hi there, Kingpin. I want to ask a question about how we treated unique cases of higher dimensions.

    Basically, there is a verse that follows the string theory, in which there are 11 overlapping dimensions like membranes. The 11 dimensions are seen as a sphere, and higher dimensions trivialize lower dimensions via R/F Interaction.
    KingPin0422
    KingPin0422
    This looks nothing like string theory. The "dimensions" in this case seem to just be parallel universes, as evidenced by A) them being called the "Human/Machine/etc. World" and B) the Human World being treated as the fourth of these dimensions as opposed to the third (it's the fourth to the left if you look closely). Do you have any scans of these worlds following a hierarchy, the Engines being higher-dimensional beings, etc.?
    Jamesthetaker
    Jamesthetaker
    Unfortunately, that's all I have.

    Thank you for your help anyway.
    KingPin0422
    KingPin0422
    No problem!
    Could you please help to sort out the uncertainity of tier 1 proposed here? Ultima isn't sure and DontTalkDT is in hiatus. I hope you have a good day in any case.
    Hi, sorry to bother you, I was reading your comment about your upcoming 1-A+ thread... just one question, what is it about?
    KingPin0422
    KingPin0422
    I plan to get rid of it. Simply put, I see no need to keep it around when, at least to my recollection, only two characters on the entire site currently qualify for it: Hypnos from the Cthulhu Mythos and Yahweh from World of Darkness, and even then, Hypnos is being revised to not have a 1-A+ tier as we speak. The Ancient Ones (the first key on Yog-Sothoth's profile) will replace Hypnos' position, but they will only reach 1-A+ through hax. Overall, the issue with 1-A+ is much the same as when we axed Low 1-B all those years ago, in my opinion.
    Apex_Predator_GX
    Apex_Predator_GX
    Thank you for your reply... I totally agree with you, we should get rid of it. :)
    Hello! since recently there is a Thread related to what i will ask you. The body of the question is are these really true and if so will we lose the majority of 1A characters and above (not at baseline)? Context is in I/O crt, about second hierarchy and "transcend" thing




    Seriously I don't really find this enough for 1A/1A+ even there are Second hierarchy, at least mathematically. Assuming we consider layer A to be the first/lowest layer higher than baseline, layer A would be L1A (2^Aleph 0 or "R" spatial dimensions) then the whole hierarchy with its infinite layers is just R*omega spatial dimensions are so so much smaller than 1A requiring R^R (Aleph-2/2^R) spatial dimensions. In other words 1A would be equivalent to UI^UI spatial dimensions, with the difference between each spatial dimension and the previous being UI times (UI = uncountably infinite/Aleph-1/2^Aleph-0, omega = smallest countably infinite ordinal/"set/number"), whole hierarchy is this case only UI*omega time (much,much smaller than UI^2. Even this requiring aleph-1 layers)
    I know we always treated the second hierarchical cases like 1A+ but they are like circumvention and don't look closely at the true scale of the infinities/aleph, even the explanation page clearly states the difference between each aleph far beyond than entirely hierarchy below, in other words the difference between aleph-2 and Aleph-3 is much larger for aleph-2 and aleph-1, generalizable to any higher aleph/step in 1A. Literally, transcend baseline 1A character like they transcend 11-C (or far superior than that) isn't enough to just one "step" of 1A, even between two Aleph (Aleph-3/baseline 1A and Aleph-4) has uncountably infinite "steps/levels", whether it's Aleph-2 or 1 number of "steps". For simply, even jump from baseline Low-1A to baseline 1A, still need not just second infinite Hierarchy (difference between each level is baseline L1A and 11-C) but literally uncountably infinite number of infinite hierarchies with each superior to last as a whole, treat all their levels equally (not add layers like dimensions or "omega+1/2/3.., epsilon, velben,..."th level, these only in one hierarchy) and difference between two "steps" in 1A equal if not far superior than this, let alone "Alephs" to 1A+ upward
    Personally, I feel the majority of characters from Low-1A and up reach those tiers without even showing such feats/hierarchies, only cherry picking philosophical metaphysical, transdual elements, treating them like large cardinals, for me it's the worst NLF thing that doesn't have to be treated like a joke or wank by the majority. I only see Unsong, SCP and Downstreamers legit for their tiers if we go "My infinities bigger than your" (Unsong"s 0 is bad but at least their H1A still make sense in some way although so vague and could be just 1A+), the rest is just worst, I don't see how they could be 1A+ let alone H1A and 0". Also Marvel is literally worst ever exist because their transfinite statement is just Low-1C to H1B at very best but still qualified for L1A upward. Literally, there is CRT trying to upgrade Marvel to H1A, all scan related to infinities/transfinite only give 2A according to most people
    Hello! There was a Cthulhu Mythos downgrade thread a while back and while it was ultimately rejected, there seemed to be the lingering idea that the verse would no longer be above baseline tier 0
    Is this something that will be tackled in part 2 of the CM revisions?
    AlexZiggy
    AlexZiggy
    Yeah, I'm guessing not everyone would be onboard with that idea. Is the CRT coming out any time soon?
    Does the verse actually go into detail about math in any novel? Because the "transcending math" statement could mean alot more if it did
    KingPin0422
    KingPin0422
    For the first question, to be frank, I don't know. I have a draft in my sandbox that's mostly finished, but I haven't bothered to actually complete it for a hot minute, and between my volunteer job and just my overall laziness, there's no telling when I can motivate myself to get back on it.

    For the second question, the story from whence the "beyond the mathematics of any conceivable cosmos" statement came revolves around a college student who studies high-level mathematics and connects it to folklore and whatnot, although there isn't any use or mention of set theory if that's what you're looking for.
    TheDivineHost
    TheDivineHost
    so how about hastur...
    Hey, would you be willing to debate/discuss goku's scaling? I believe off of the beerus and goku feat, they should have been granted low multiversal, due to cosmology scaling, if not higher utilizing multipliers, training boosts, and other statements. I also have contentions with the idea of the db universe being finite.
    LeSupremeKing#1481
    preferably in vc to save time
    Hello KingPin! I wish to speak to you about the Cthulhu Mythos. Mainly the work of other writers, the relationship of Yog-Sothoth, Azathoth, The Supreme Archetype as well as the Cthulhu Mythos cosmology. When your free that is.
    KingPin0422
    KingPin0422
    The family tree drawn by Lovecraft is still relevant, yes. It gives some additional context to the cosmogony of the Cthulhu Mythos, namely this quote:
    Trembling in waves that golden wisps of nebula made weirdly visible, there rose a timid hint of far-off melody, droning in faint chords that our own universe of stars knows not. And as that music grew, the shantak raised its ears and plunged ahead, and Carter likewise bent to catch each lovely strain. It was a song, but not the song of any voice. Night and the spheres sang it, and it was old when space and Nyarlathotep and the Other Gods were born.
    Basically, Nyarlathotep and the Other Gods in general were born at the same "time" as space itself was, and if we look at Lovecraft's family tree, he regarded Azathoth as the first thing to come into existence (the Archetypes have always existed, so they don't count), with Nyarlathotep being a direct descendant. This, in turn, elaborates on Azathoth's significance to the Cthulhu Mythos: he is the Lord of All Things who rules time and space from the center of infinity, but with this in mind, he is also akin to a demiurge who gave birth to creation as well as to the manifestations of the Archetypes in the Other Gods.
    ThePirateKing777
    ThePirateKing777
    Yeah that was my last question. However I don’t believe Yog and Azzy have equal positions.

    Azathoth is said numerous times to be the creator and Lord of existence and nuclear chaos at the center of all infinity while Yog is all-encompassing and holding past, present, and future as well as the Ultimate Gate within himself.

    I don’t believe these two should be recognized as one and the same in The Supreme Archetype. Yog doesn’t really have any significance to The Supreme Archetype as stated here;

    “In the face of that awful wonder, the quasi-Carter forgot the horror of destroyed individuality. It was an All-in-One and One-in-All of limitless being and self—not merely a thing of one Space-Time continuum, but allied to the ultimate animating essence of existence’s whole unbounded sweep—the last, utter sweep which has no confines and which outreaches fancy and mathematics alike. It was perhaps that which certain secret cults of earth have whispered of as YOG-SOTHOTH, and which has been a deity under other names; that which the crustaceans of Yuggoth worship as the Beyond-One, and which the vaporous brains of the spiral nebulae know by an untranslatable Sign—yet in a flash the Carter-facet realised how slight and fractional all these conceptions are.”

    Here The Supreme Archetype is perhaps (meaning this is a possibility or is uncertain.) recognized by secret cults to be Yog but it also says that it’s been a deity under many names of which the crustaceans of Yuggoth worship as the Beyond-One. Carter that realizes how slight and fractional all these conceptions are, meaning Yog is but a tiny fraction of this Supreme Archetype or they have no relation and the secret cults and Carter are just assuming they have relation.

    Then there’s also Azzy who I actually did see as A type of demiurge figure that has everything to do with the material existence but doesn’t have anything to do with The true existence and The Supreme Archetype because it’s never stated that it did.

    instead of saying that Azathoth and Yog-Sothoth both are representations of the Supreme Archetype isn’t it better to say that Azathoth is The creator of the Material World, Yog is or embodies The Material World that Azzy created and The Supreme Archetype is either it’s own thing or Azzy and Yog are just tiny meaningless fractions of it?
    LordNidhoggr
    LordNidhoggr
    So...hopefully, this doesn't bother anyone, but I saw this question while browsing and thought I'd take a stab at it. Yog-Sothoth is pretty clearly the supreme deity of the Mythos. Azathoth is stated to exist at the center of infinity, while Yog-Sothoth is explicitly beyond the infinite, even the archetype of the infinite. Your argument against him is that Yog-Sothoth is just some fragment of the Supreme Archetype, but you have it backward. When Carter realizes how fragmentary the various descriptions of Yog-Sothoth/The Beyond One/The Supreme Archetype are when confronted with the actual reality of Yog-Sothoth is. He isn't saying the being Yog-Sothoth is but a fragment of something greater, he's saying that all names, descriptions, and ideas about Yog-Sothoth pale in comparison to the absolute being Yog actually is. Carter describes Yog-Sothoth as the Supreme Archetype because that's how he is able to process and understand when shown the truth; Yog-Sothoth is tied to the most foundational aspects of existence and creation, but its being goes beyond even that.

    Lovecraft does this a lot, saying that the names and descriptions that exist for the various beings in the Mythos fail to describe the sheer power and level of existence beings like the Great Old Ones and Ultimate Gods exist in. Azathoth is said to be "lord of all"...by the alien cult that worships him. Cthulhu cultists also venerate Cthulhu as the end-all, be-all, but that doesn't make it true. Now, Azathoth is likely a nigh-omnipotent being, but Yog-Sothoth is the only being explicitly described as "omnipotent" by Lovecraft. You also have to think about what Yog-Sothoth and Azathoth represent: Azathoth is the idea that ultimately everything is chaos; all things come from chaos and all things return to chaos. Yog-Sothoth, on the other hand, represents existence, knowledge, and the universal concepts that tie all things together. Lovecraft was a man who deeply valued knowledge, and had interesting and powerful ideas about the nature of existence, its vastness, and the insignificance of any part of it to the whole. It's clear that Azathoth is considered an extremely important entity in the Mythos, but since Lovecraft never finished the story that would have gone into more depth, Yog-Sothoth has a much bigger role in and effect on the Mythos as a whole; Lovecraft didn't refer to his cosmology as Yog-Sothothery for nothing.
    Hi so, i saw you in Honkai Impact 3 High 1-B thread and it seems like you can read japanese, how much good your japanese reading skill?
    KingPin0422
    KingPin0422
    I actually can't read Japanese. I believe I even said in the thread you mentioned that I had to get someone else to translate it for me.

    I'm sorry if I got your hopes up.
    Kisaragi_Megumi
    Kisaragi_Megumi
    Ah i see, its fine
    You know, I really should get cracking on my Cthulhu Mythos blog, now that the forum move is effectively complete. Other than that, I am not sure what I will do.
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