DEATH BATTLE! Discussion Thread (All-time Death Battle Spoilers Alert)

[Rozeyroze]

This was 2 weeks ago, do u genuinely think they are not editing stuff in a month out? That's more than enough time to record lines and edit the panels in lol.

Edit: 1500 pages is crazy

Dawg, this Death Battle already wrapped up their research before Manchester Black was revealed in the latest issue of Superman lmao, they're not going to use him.

 

[Megahax]

This was 2 weeks ago, do u genuinely think they are not editing stuff in a month out? That's more than enough time to record lines and edit the panels in lol.

Only enough for a popup but not enough to affect the outcome, even then, the story with Manchester Black has barely begun so they're just going to ignore whatever occurs in that run that happens to contradict their own analysis at the time.

 

[Nick443]

Did you forget their rationale for Wally West winning against Archie Sonic? They both may have infinite ludicrous levels of speed, but Wally's speed steal would always make him faster because he'd get that stolen speed. Likewise, Sentry passively absorbing energy from other dimensions would make it so that he'd still always get that extra energy that Prime can't absorb.

Also, you're vastly overestimating Prime's resistance to mind manipulation. He's not going to be able to take on the combined assault from both Sentry and the Void at the same time. Especially since a sliver of the Void embedded in Emma Frost's diamond form was deemed extremely dangerous and that she had to remain in that state when we know Emma Frost's telepathy is strong enough to fight a Uni-Mind or turn off Jean Grey's own telepathy herself.

So like, if he wasn't able to absorb Magic. The monarch and a guardian energy in the past

Also his mind resistance is nothing to scuff as he was able not lose control against Nekron and wouldn't be controled by him.

 

[Megahax]

So like, if he wasn't able to absorb Magic. The monarch and a guardian energy in the past

Also his mind resistance is nothing to scuff as he was able not lose control against Nekron and wouldn't be controled by him.

The Uni-Mind and Jean Grey aren't anything to scoff Emma at either, and Xavier told Emma to stay in her diamond form until they were able to extract the tiny piece of the Void from her forehead.

 

[TMaakkonen]

1500 pages. Enjoy a SentryPrime poll:

Does Sentry scale in stats to be close to Prime? - StrawPoll

What is your opinion? Vote now: Yes Sentry matches Prime in stats, No Prime sweeps Sentry in stats

strawpoll.com

 

[Nick443]

Well true, but still it proves that prime can resist powerful mind manipulation Even at the likes of sentry and void regardless. And Even they try to read it, he was able to break out of it in past issues.

The Uni-Mind and Jean Grey aren't anything to scoff Emma at either, and Xavier told Emma to stay in her diamond form until they were able to extract the tiny piece of the Void from her forehead.

 

[Rozeyroze]

Only enough for a popup but not enough to affect the outcome, even then, the story with Manchester Black has barely begun so they're just going to ignore whatever occurs in that run that happens to contradict their own analysis at the time.

Fair, I don't expect them to use the next issue (which will probably be insane for prime) when it's only like 4 days away from the episode.

Pretty sure sentry also has a new run starting next week doesn't he? Or was it just issue 4 of the mini from Wednesday

 

[Nick443]

Fair, I don't expect them to use the next issue (which will probably be insane for prime) when it's only like 4 days away from the episode.

Pretty sure sentry also has a new run starting next week doesn't he? Or was it just issue 4 of the mini from Wednesday

Just 4 issues of a mini.

 

[Megahax]

Well true, but still it proves that prime can resist powerful mind manipulation Even at the likes of sentry and void regardless. And Even they try to read it, he was able to break out of it in past issues.

Prime needed assistance from an evil Saturn Girl for that and by following the logic of powerscaling, Emma should be equal to Jean in telepathy, whose been able to invade the mind of Knull.

 

[Megahax]

Fair, I don't expect them to use the next issue (which will probably be insane for prime) when it's only like 4 days away from the episode.

Pretty sure sentry also has a new run starting next week doesn't he? Or was it just issue 4 of the mini from Wednesday

Sentry's run has already ended so whatever material or development he has from that miniseries will carry over to this current Death Battle.

 

[Nick443]

Prime needed assistance from an evil Saturn Girl for that and by following the logic of powerscaling, Emma should be equal to Jean in telepathy, whose been able to invade the mind of Knull.

Still doesn't discard the nekron scaling, who with the black lantern ring, was able to control Superman and swamp thing who already show mind manipulation resistance.

 

[Megahax]

Still doesn't discard the nekron scaling, who with the black lantern ring, was able to control Superman and swamp thing who already show mind manipulation resistance.

At best, it's debatably even but this only accounts for the Void alone, not his equivalent heroic side Sentry which is why I doubt Prime can handle another telepathic force going after him at the same time.

It also seems like they're fully buying into Sentry's hype of being THAT powerful since they've included a spread of his appearances from the main continuity, to his Marvel Knights debut, to even the in-universe Age of Sentry comics that Reed Richards made up, this just makes it even harder to argue for Prime's case.

 

[Nick443]

At best, it's debatably even but this only accounts for the Void alone, not his equivalent heroic side Sentry which is why I doubt Prime can handle another telepathic force going after him at the same time.

It also seems like they're fully buying into Sentry's hype of being THAT powerful since they've included a spread of his appearances from the main continuity, to his Marvel Knights debut, to even the in-universe Age of Sentry comics that Reed Richards made up, this just makes it even harder to argue for Prime's case.

Imagine if they just hype out Sentry in the full analisis and.... Still just Lost to prime lmao.

(It can happen thou).

 

[Megahax]

Imagine if they just hype out Sentry in the full analisis and.... Still just Lost to prime.

Prime, at best, only has the retcon punching which would be dubious to work against the dualistic nature of the Sentry since he can't retcon Void out of existence as long as Sentry exists and vice-versa.

Also, does Prime have actual feats of literal existence erasure from his retcon punches? Because if it's just continuity-alteration, it's going to be even more difficult on his end.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

 

[Nick443]

Prime, at best, only has the retcon punching which would be dubious to work against the dualistic nature of the Sentry since he can't retcon Void out of existence as long as Sentry exists and vice-versa.

Also, does Prime have actual feats of literal existence erasure from his retcon punches? Because if it's just continuity-alteration, it's going to be even more difficult on his end.

Yep, erasing his time trapper self which also eradicates him from existence. And reappers in his Home universe, and that time trapper stated he cannot be erased from existence.

 

[Rozeyroze]

 

[Megahax]

Yep, erasing his time trapper self which also eradicates him from existence. And reappers in his Home universe, and that time trapper stated he cannot be erased from existence.

Ok here's the problem with that, Time Trapper isn't just a whole other cosmic entity, but that version was specifically an aged Superboy Prime, we don't even know if both Primes were wiped from reality as a result of Prime's retcon-punching, or because of timeline shenanigans caused by Prime meeting the older version of himself and physically interacting with him.

This requires a whole lot of assumptions to make which is why I'm asking if he's ever eradicated someone from existence to just any other person that wasn't himself or the Time Trapper specifically.

 

[Rozeyroze]

Not true, they confirm that the time trapper is gone after prime punches him and our prime just respawns on earth prime like always

Ok here's the problem with that, Time Trapper isn't just a whole other cosmic entity, but that version was specifically an aged Superboy Prime, we don't even know if both Primes were wiped from reality as a result of Prime's retcon-punching, or because of timeline shenanigans caused by Prime meeting the older version of himself and physically interacting with him.

This requires a whole lot of assumptions to make which is why I'm asking if he's ever eradicated someone from existence to just any other person that wasn't himself or the Time Trapper specifically.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Getting no-diffed by someone relative to All-Father Thor was honestly crazy aura loss

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Good thing that wasnt Merged Sentry, whose on par with All Father Thor lol

 

[Megahax]

Not true, they confirm that the time trapper is gone after prime punches him and our prime just respawns on earth prime like always

is it too much to ask for a scan of Prime wiping out someone from existence that isn't himself

 

[TMaakkonen]

Lowkey that scene makes Prime look like doofus so when Sentry eventually wears down his mind resist thatll be fun :V

Oh yeah, Knull killed like Celestials, Right? Its really not that bad anti-feat.

 

[Megahax]

Getting no-diffed by someone relative to All-Father Thor was honestly crazy aura loss

You can't be complaining about this when the entire event was dogshit and called out on twitter because Cates wanted to prop up his OC.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Bob's powers are heavily tied to his mind and self-belief, while Knull is basically the living embodiment of the primordial darkness and void. One of Bob's biggest weaknesses has always been the darkness inside his own psyche, so Knull's powers naturally interact with something Sentry has struggled against for years. That's why I've always seen it as less of a raw power thing and more of Knull having a direct advantage against one of Bob's most established weaknesses.

 

[Megahax]

Lowkey that scene makes Prime look like doofus so when Sentry eventually wears down his mind resist thatll be fun :V

Oh yeah, Knull killed like Celestials, Right? Its really not that bad anti-feat.

Bob's effortlessly lifted Celestials which have been described by Jean Grey during the AXE event to be "too heavy for reality" so its not hard to see that Sentry does scale to Knull, it's just that he's a cosmic being with powers specifically tied to the metaphysical concept of darkness.

 

[Rozeyroze]

is it too much to ask for a scan of Prime wiping out someone from existence that isn't himself

Doing it to himself is just as impressive.

Considering the time trapper (similar to sentry) is a living timeline that will exist even at the end of time.

Just like it too hard to ask for a scan of sentry actually pulling energy from all the realms in marvels at the same time.

Unlike that however, prime has actually done it on panel

 

[Rozeyroze]

Bob's powers are heavily tied to his mind and self-belief, while Knull is basically the living embodiment of the primordial darkness and void. One of Bob's biggest weaknesses has always been the darkness inside his own psyche, so Knull's powers naturally interact with something Sentry has struggled against for years. That's why I've always seen it as less of a raw power thing and more of Knull having a direct advantage against one of Bob's most established weaknesses.

Hm, sounds like a pretty big weakness for prime to exploit

[The Darkest Knight created whole new stories that would never have been allowed to become real](https://cdn.imgchest.com/files/dac4a6f83b95.png)


[These stories are metafictional, presented directly to the reader as horrifying new narratives. "are you ready to turn that page dear reader, the horrors out there are ready for you, they're out there -- Clean and Terrifying. Flesh made pure by metal".


[Superboy Prime who is metafictional for being representation of reader in the representation of our real world, saying that the stories TDK made are the imaginary stories reject after punching him and changing him (a story that would never have been allowed to be real) which is a story he never read as a reader before, and he also change that story.](https://da.gd/yTVU3N)

There is author's statement saying everyone on earth prime is able to affect reality like the writer which is plot manipulation because earth prime described as a metafiction world. Also in infinite crisis when Alexander luthor of earth 3 looking for earth prime, he performed a 4th wall feat similiar to Thought Robot in Final Crisis Superman Beyond #2, that's why when superboy prime back to earth prime he got erased from comic or story, even there is a statement by narrator that earth prime is our world the reader, and superboy prime said realities is a comic page (also here). Superboy Prime also stated that even if all the heroes died, the stories would be rebooted and bring them back to life, Because he has read many comics, he understands that characters such as Superman have died numerous times, yet never truly remain dead, since the stories themselves always restore them. In Earth Prime there is a DC Comics Tower where there is Julie Schwartz (Script editor), Cary Bates & Elliot (Both this are writer) they are representations of real people btw, you can search their names. And this is the ability of writer, Julie(editor)talks about :


Cary Bates was imagining the plot for the next issue and it really happened in reality. "I started dreaming up a plot for my next flash yarn". He chose Trickster as the villain and it actually happened in reality. He did it all just with his mind and happened.


that's why Superboy Prime changed Imaginary Stories Reject after he hit it. The reason he said he was a imaginary stories reject because it was a story made by Darkest Knight with the crisis energy which is a stories that never would have been allowed to be real before, same description with stories in Lucien Library which is an impossible story to happen and made from horror of human heart(Impossible Stories destined to only happen in nightmare)(Impossible Volume) & Crisis Energy is explained to be born from the bad side of humans (we are the batteries for the crisis energy and its opposite) such as greed, selfishness, predation & human desire to be big. This suggests that Crisis Energy is the source of the stories within Lucien's Library, which explains why The Darkest Knight can made them into reality & affecting the stories read by the readers by giving them a new and terrifying narratives, and Prime able to change that stories.

 

[Megahax]

Just like it too hard to ask for a scan of sentry actually pulling energy from all the realms in marvels at the same time.

Death Battle's preview literally has them showing him doing that in the Microverse.

Unlike that however, prime has actually done it on panel

That's not Prime, that's literally Doomsday.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

 

[Megahax]

Hm, sounds like a pretty big weakness for prime to exploit

[The Darkest Knight created whole new stories that would never have been allowed to become real](https://cdn.imgchest.com/files/dac4a6f83b95.png)


[These stories are metafictional, presented directly to the reader as horrifying new narratives. "are you ready to turn that page dear reader, the horrors out there are ready for you, they're out there -- Clean and Terrifying. Flesh made pure by metal".


[Superboy Prime who is metafictional for being representation of reader in the representation of our real world, saying that the stories TDK made are the imaginary stories reject after punching him and changing him (a story that would never have been allowed to be real) which is a story he never read as a reader before, and he also change that story.](https://da.gd/yTVU3N)

There is author's statement saying everyone on earth prime is able to affect reality like the writer which is plot manipulation because earth prime described as a metafiction world. Also in infinite crisis when Alexander luthor of earth 3 looking for earth prime, he performed a 4th wall feat similiar to Thought Robot in Final Crisis Superman Beyond #2, that's why when superboy prime back to earth prime he got erased from comic or story, even there is a statement by narrator that earth prime is our world the reader, and superboy prime said realities is a comic page (also here). Superboy Prime also stated that even if all the heroes died, the stories would be rebooted and bring them back to life, Because he has read many comics, he understands that characters such as Superman have died numerous times, yet never truly remain dead, since the stories themselves always restore them. In Earth Prime there is a DC Comics Tower where there is Julie Schwartz (Script editor), Cary Bates & Elliot (Both this are writer) they are representations of real people btw, you can search their names. And this is the ability of writer, Julie(editor)talks about :


Cary Bates was imagining the plot for the next issue and it really happened in reality. "I started dreaming up a plot for my next flash yarn". He chose Trickster as the villain and it actually happened in reality. He did it all just with his mind and happened.


that's why Superboy Prime changed Imaginary Stories Reject after he hit it. The reason he said he was a imaginary stories reject because it was a story made by Darkest Knight with the crisis energy which is a stories that never would have been allowed to be real before, same description with stories in Lucien Library which is an impossible story to happen and made from horror of human heart(Impossible Stories destined to only happen in nightmare)(Impossible Volume) & Crisis Energy is explained to be born from the bad side of humans (we are the batteries for the crisis energy and its opposite) such as greed, selfishness, predation & human desire to be big. This suggests that Crisis Energy is the source of the stories within Lucien's Library, which explains why The Darkest Knight can made them into reality & affecting the stories read by the readers by giving them a new and terrifying narratives, and Prime able to change that stories.

Prime can only affect them if there's like a more optimistic upside of a reality he can retcon them to. He's not capable of doing this to the Void when the Sentry exists as his polar opposite.

 

[Nick443]

Ohh... F**k

 

[Rozeyroze]

Prime can only affect them if there's like a more optimistic upside of a reality he can retcon them to. He's not capable of doing this to the Void when the Sentry exists as his polar opposite.

Proof of that limitation?

 

[BlackDarkness679]

This was 2 weeks ago, do u genuinely think they are not editing stuff in a month out? That's more than enough time to record lines and edit the panels in lol.

They said and shown before that any info after their research is done isnt factored in

The same way a game or movie dont add up any recent thing in their product, as its finished, you act like Sentry vs Prime isnt already done and just waits for the release, these things are done in advance

 

[Rozeyroze]

Death Battle's preview literally has them showing him doing that in the Microverse.


That's not Prime, that's literally Doomsday.

Thats not all of marvels cosmology and didn't know if u know this or not but all the time trappers, despite appearing different. Are the same person

 

[Megahax]

Proof of that limitation?

A lot of Prime's retconning only acts as a state of transition or transformation. He can't simply just create or destroy a given thing; it's arguable with his Time Trapper self given the shitload of assumptions you'd have to bring up, but even then, it still landed Prime back in his home reality with all his memories intact, he retconned nothing and destroyed nothing.

Void and Sentry can not only exist simultaneously, but also independently of each other. Prime can't just retcon punch Void into not existing to give Sentry a more positive continuity because Sentry already embodies that in the first place. He also can't retcon punch Sentry into no longer having the Void because both of them will always exist so long as the other does no matter what.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Krypto got that dawg in him

 

[Megahax]

Thats not all of marvels cosmology and didn't know if u know this or not but all the time trappers, despite appearing different. Are the same person

Marvel's cosmology is still being fleshed out by Ewing so it's not really the same thing.

Also, the Time Trapper isn't the same person lmao. Why else would the plots of Legion of 3 Worlds and DC K.O. be so centered around Prime and Superman respectively if they were both the same person?

 

[Rozeyroze]

Ah so going off of feelings and ur personal take on it, not actually something the narrative supports.

You talk about assumptions alot for prime yet easily give sentry omnipresence despite never showing it on panel.

It's legit one statement and u just ran with it lol.

Again, sentry and the void have been affected by weaker retcons than prime can do.

A lot of Prime's retconning only acts as a state of transition or transformation. He can't simply just create or destroy a given thing; it's arguable with his Time Trapper self given the shitload of assumptions you'd have to bring up, but even then, it still landed Prime back in his home reality with all his memories intact, he retconned nothing and destroyed nothing.

Void and Sentry can not only exist simultaneously, but also independently of each other. Prime can't just retcon punch Void into not existing to give Sentry a more positive continuity because Sentry already embodies that in the first place. He also can't retcon punch Sentry into no longer having the Void because both of them will always exist so long as the other does no matter what.

 

[Nick443]

It's not only work against with his times trapper self, and even Alexander luthor jr told him to erase Lex Luthor of New Earth. Just as he was about to do that, Lex teleported away.