DEATH BATTLE! Discussion Thread (All-time Death Battle Spoilers Alert)

[TMaakkonen]

Phoenix vs Raven is still worse than this outcome-wise

True, but like besides that, this MU def has sides that do not budge. And sure, maybe some other debatable MUs are also like that, but Sentry's wincons are so much contested. I feel like say Megamind and Yuji sides were respected. Majority does not buy into Sentry.

Despite the fact that going by DB's modus operandi it works in Sentry's favor. Sentry's stat arguments are not consistent but they are just enough workable that they can get a pass. Meanwhile Prime's weaknesses and Sentry's abilities are notable enough to work, which also favors Sentry. So uhh yeah, Sentry likely resists Retcon punch and is close enough to Prime in stats, while Prime is vulnerable to Sentry's hax n stuff. But hey it is better than PhoenixRaven. That one really gets ignored because no one care about Phoenix enough to stay mad.

 

[Nick443]

True, but like besides that, this MU def has sides that do not budge. And sure, maybe some other debatable MUs are also like that, but Sentry's wincons are so much contested. I feel like say Megamind and Yuji sides were respected. Majority does not buy into Sentry.

Despite the fact that going by DB's modus operandi it works in Sentry's favor. Sentry's stat arguments are not consistent but they are just enough workable that they can get a pass. Meanwhile Prime's weaknesses and Sentry's abilities are notable enough to work, which also favors Sentry. So uhh yeah, Sentry likely resists Retcon punch and is close enough to Prime in stats, while Prime is vulnerable to Sentry's hax n stuff. But hey it is better than PhoenixRaven. That one really gets ignored because no one care about Phoenix enough to stay mad.

Idk, Sentry has a bunch of hax that basically could
overwhelmed prime, but it's ironic how prime can resist at most all of Sentry's powers, like molecular/matter manipulation,elemental Powers,mind/memory manipulation,disease,etc...etc, asíde of the fact that they are pretty much unkilliable in their own ways that a permakill kill it's complicarted for both sides that a temporally kill can still be effective in DB standards

The only proper wincon i can see for Sentry it's via corrupting prime to attack his own soul, but he has actually resisted that kind of stuff before.

Even then, the arguments of Sentry resisting the Retcon Punch for me are still very iffy at Best and are of on misinterpretation, ok , not saying sentry cannot survive the Retcon Punch at all, he can survive some effects, but it's doubtful of him surviving at it's fully extend.

 

[TMaakkonen]

Still, if its just a resistance, it will eventually be worn out. Sentry also has good regular regen to help too. If these guys are close in stats and in resistances, having more useful abilities could be an advantage enough to matter.

 

[Nick443]

Still, if its just a resistance, it will eventually be worn out. Sentry also has good regular regen to help too. If these guys are close in stats and in resistances, having more useful abilities could be an advantage enough to matter.

The same apply to Prime regeneration too, that he even regenerated from the guardians removing him atom by atom and he was just fine and Even come back from existence erasure too. And prime can recharge himself with Sentry's energy and viceversa that's still a stalement. And if one has more abilities that the other but he's counter's/resist all of it What does he have left to get rid of it?

 

[SpecterSkater]

Something I don't see people bringing up in this discussion a lot is the fact that Sentry also has access to CLOC. He's going to know Prime's weaknesses and everything so it's not like he'd be unknowingly charging up Prime with his attacks on top of having access to knowing what could actually hurt him like being weak to red sun radiation.

I know Prime has his '4th wall' knowledge of DC stuff but I don't think that extends to Marvel so it's not like he's going to know all of Sentry's stuff, but I could be wrong on that.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Something I don't see people bringing up in this discussion a lot is the fact that Sentry also has access to CLOC.

What is CLOC?

I know Prime has his '4th wall' knowledge of DC stuff but I don't think that extends to Marvel so it's not like he's going to know all of Sentry's stuff, but I could be wrong on that.

Thing about in universe knowledge of another series, it has to be stated or shown, cuz 4th wall awareness wont grant him knowledge of other franchises outside his medium, prime has no crossovers with marvel in the slightest right? Or anything of that nature he could be aware either is that so?

 

[SpecterSkater]

What is CLOC?

CLOC is Sentry's ai buddy that's a computing system that (I believe) Reed Richards helped set up that scans everything everywhere and everywhen to help tell Sentry where trouble is happening on top of giving him up to date analysis on things he's fighting. It'd be able to scan Prime's biology and give Sentry all the knowledge he'd need to know about how to combat him.

Thing about in universe knowledge of another series, it has to be stated or shown, cuz 4th wall awareness wont grant him knowledge of other franchises outside his medium, prime has no crossovers with marvel in the slightest right? Or anything of that nature he could be aware either is that so?

Yeah that was why I left myself open to being corrected on that front. I'm not personally aware of Prime being in any of the Marvel vs DC crossovers but I'm also no Prime scholar so there's probably a mini-event 6 or so years ago that had him arm wrestle with Gladiator or something.

 

[Nick443]

Something I don't see people bringing up in this discussion a lot is the fact that Sentry also has access to CLOC. He's going to know Prime's weaknesses and everything so it's not like he'd be unknowingly charging up Prime with his attacks on top of having access to knowing what could actually hurt him like being weak to red sun radiation.

I know Prime has his '4th wall' knowledge of DC stuff but I don't think that extends to Marvel so it's not like he's going to know all of Sentry's stuff, but I could be wrong on that.

It is, but still it's not that a major factor altogether, it can potencially tell Sentry what Powers prime has and his mental estate but idk if it can tell what kind of weakness prime has and given how prime is now more mentally estable...hmmm, and even it can actually tell prime weakness to the red sunlingth, his armor can convert it to yellow sunlight or recharge witn Sentry energy,


(And it's kinda implied he's a Marvel fan too so....)

 

[Nick443]

What is CLOC?

Thing about in universe knowledge of another series, it has to be stated or shown, cuz 4th wall awareness wont grant him knowledge of other franchises outside his medium, prime has no crossovers with marvel in the slightest right? Or anything of that nature he could be aware either is that so?

U sure

 

[SpecterSkater]

It is, but still it's not that a major factor altogether, it can potencially tell Sentry what Powers prime has and his mental estate but idk if it can tell what kind of weakness prime has and given how prime is now more mentally estable...hmmm, and even it can actually tell prime weakness to the red sunlingth, his armor can convert it to yellow sunlight or recharge witn Sentry energy,

I mean having total knowledge over what your opponent is weak to when your opponent doesn't is kind of a major factor. If it tells Sentry that his armor can convert energy Sentry can just... get rid of the armor. Prime himself can some sort of resistance to matter manipulation apparently but I'm pretty sure that doesn't cover his armor, and it's not like he can just regenerate his armor.

And Rick vs the Doctor showed us DB doesn't believe 'can reference the opponent in their own series' means that they have total knowledge over their capabilities that gives them an informational edge.

 

[Rozeyroze]

CLOC is Sentry's ai buddy that's a computing system that (I believe) Reed Richards helped set up that scans everything everywhere and everywhen to help tell Sentry where trouble is happening on top of giving him up to date analysis on things he's fighting. It'd be able to scan Prime's biology and give Sentry all the knowledge he'd need to know about how to combat him.

Yeah that was why I left myself open to being corrected on that front. I'm not personally aware of Prime being in any of the Marvel vs DC crossovers but I'm also no Prime scholar so there's probably a mini-event 6 or so years ago that had him arm wrestle with Gladiator or something.

Oh god, it's the "power cosmic instantly knows everything" argument again. There's a difference between knowing something and then being able to actually do it, sentry can't.

Also it's only been like 3 months where we get confirmation that prime has read and knows about marvel. Canon 616 comics I might add

 

[Nick443]

Oh god, it's the "power cosmic instantly knows everything" argument again. There's a difference between knowing something and then being able to actually do it, sentry can't.

Also it's only been like 3 months where we get confirmation that prime has read and knows about marvel. Canon 616 comics I might add

Huh. So it's kinda canon.... Neat

 

[Rozeyroze]

Huh. So it's kinda canon.... Neat

Yeah in the background we can see spidermans ASM run, death metal and infinite crisis as well.

We also see the sinestro corps run for prime later

 

[JoshDoshMosh]

Any of you guys play that new Suda game? Romeo is a deadman?

 

[Megahax]

What is CLOC?

Thing about in universe knowledge of another series, it has to be stated or shown, cuz 4th wall awareness wont grant him knowledge of other franchises outside his medium, prime has no crossovers with marvel in the slightest right? Or anything of that nature he could be aware either is that so?

Cloc is basically his robotic assistant that helps him analyze and calculate anything and anyone's stats and attributes. It's a supercomputer designed by Reed Richards to help Sentry out in times of crisis.

 

[TMaakkonen]

Is CLOC usable in combat, like fr?

 

[Megahax]

Oh god, it's the "power cosmic instantly knows everything" argument again. There's a difference between knowing something and then being able to actually do it, sentry can't.

Also it's only been like 3 months where we get confirmation that prime has read and knows about marvel. Canon 616 comics I might add

Hold your horses there pal, this is from a crossover event; said crossover event literally has Marvel and DC characters coexisting in the same universe as if there was no change to their continuity.

It's dubious to use this comic as legitimate proof of Prime being cognizant of Marvel Comics when he's never once mentioned them outside this specific issue where it conveniently crosses over with Marvel. Until he actually brings them up in the MAIN continuity, you shouldn't presume this is canon. This is the same rationale Death Battle gave for not giving Godzilla scaling from elseworlds stories and other crossovers.

 

[Megahax]

Is CLOC usable in combat, like fr?

Clock acts more of a utility/support, kind of like HERBIE, still pretty useful in situations, but not so much in actual combat.

 

[Megahax]

Idk, Sentry has a bunch of hax that basically could
overwhelmed prime, but it's ironic how prime can resist at most all of Sentry's powers, like molecular/matter manipulation,elemental Powers,mind/memory manipulation,disease,etc...etc, asíde of the fact that they are pretty much unkilliable in their own ways that a permakill kill it's complicarted for both sides that a temporally kill can still be effective in DB standards

The only proper wincon i can see for Sentry it's via corrupting prime to attack his own soul, but he has actually resisted that kind of stuff before.

Even then, the arguments of Sentry resisting the Retcon Punch for me are still very iffy at Best and are of on misinterpretation, ok , not saying sentry cannot survive the Retcon Punch at all, he can survive some effects, but it's doubtful of him surviving at it's fully extend.

The issue with Prime's retcon punch is that it's hard to tell whether or not it was literal plot manipulation a la Gwenpool, or just high-end reality warping a la Scarlet Witch during House of M (I choose to believe in the latter mainly because Prime's punches acts in a similar vein to how it altered all of the multiverse's cosmology, same with Scarlet Witch, it just gives the impression he's capable of manipulating the plot because he's from a world where everything is capeshit fiction to him).

Either way, Death Battle has made it very clear that just because a character has the silver bullet (Kyle Rayner scaling a dimension above Simon), that doesn't necessarily mean that it's a one-and-done deal. Sentry has far more versatility with his powers and Prime is very susceptible to being drained, more so than Sentry is. It's just that his foes never last very long trying to hold him down whilst trying to drain his powers, but it has worked before; namely at the end of Infinite Crisis where he was locked up in a sciencell facing a red sun.

Going by their reasonings behind Asura and Bardock losing, it's pretty clear that Death Battle tends to view characters that are vulnerable to energy draining as big factors for their losses. Doesn't quite help that their arguments for Silver Surfer and Wally West winning took particular emphasis on the fact that their energy sources were either infinite or self-replenishing.

Also, it's hard to tell if Prime is even capable of physically interacting with souls since after Sentry perished to Knull, his soul managed to persist in the celestial afterlife and very much could've come back to life if he chose to.

 

[Nick443]

The issue with Prime's retcon punch is that it's hard to tell whether or not it was literal plot manipulation a la Gwenpool, or just high-end reality warping a la Scarlet Witch during House of M.

Either way, Death Battle has made it very clear that just because a character has the silver bullet (Kyle Rayner scaling a dimension above Simon), that doesn't necessarily mean that it's a one-and-done deal. Sentry has far more versatility with his powers and Prime is very susceptible to being drained, more so than Sentry is. It's just that his foes never last very long trying to hold him down whilst trying to drain his powers, but it has worked before; namely at the end of Infinite Crisis where he was locked up in a sciencell facing a red sun.

Going by their reasonings behind Asura and Bardock losing, it's pretty clear that Death Battle tends to view characters that are vulnerable to energy draining as big factors for their losses. Doesn't quite help that their arguments for Silver Surfer and Wally West winning took particular emphasis on the fact that their energy sources were either infinite or self-replenishing.

Also, it's hard to tell if Prime is even capable of physically interacting with souls since after Sentry perished to Knull, his soul managed to persist in the celestial afterlife and very much could've come back to life if he chose to.

It's has been showed in death metal: secret origins that punching a evil Superman created by TDK was capable of changing his evil universe intro a peaceful, joyful one, rewritting it, so it's properly a narrative/plot manipulation argument

Asíde of the energy absortion thing, prime can be still versátile in not only absorbs sunlight energy(yk Sentry similar power charge battery) that can absorbs Magic and Even the energy of a guardian to kidnap mister Mxyzptlk.

And Even then, Sentry power's has been drained before like what happened in the New Avengers 2005 anual 1.

 

[Megahax]

It's has been showed in death metal: secret origins that punching a evil Superman created by TDK was capable of changing his evil universe intro a peaceful, joyful one, rewritting it, so it's properly a narrative/plot manipulation argument

This can be similarly argued for Scarlet Witch "rewriting" the omniverse in Marvel during House of M and being able to "make and unmake" reality, does that not sound similar to Prime's capabilities? The only difference here is that Scarlet Witch isn't a comic book nerd like Prime is.

Asíde of the energy absortion thing, prime can be still versátile in not only absorbs sunlight energy(yk Sentry similar power charge battery) that can absorbs Magic and Even the energy of a guardian to kidnap mister Mxyzptlk.

Sentry can just do nothing and he passively absorbs ambient energies. His energy absorption is virtually omnipresent because he can take it from the Negative Zone or the Microverse or any stars billions of lightyears away, on top of being able to absorb energy directly from Prime himself. Sentry doesn't exactly rely solely on solar radiation all the time, and he's been able to subsist off of greater sources like the Power Cosmic in Annihilation: Scourge.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

CLOC is Sentry's ai buddy that's a computing system that (I believe) Reed Richards helped set up that scans everything everywhere and everywhen to help tell Sentry where trouble is happening on top of giving him up to date analysis on things he's fighting. It'd be able to scan Prime's biology and give Sentry all the knowledge he'd need to know about how to combat him.

That sounds like the AI from the show Person of Interest I watched recently, spying people and preventing stuff from going bad, although this one sounds more cracked analyzing biology and stuff

 

[BlackDarkness679]

U sure

I assume thats very recent

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Hold your horses there pal, this is from a crossover event; said crossover event literally has Marvel and DC characters coexisting in the same universe as if there was no change to their continuity.

It's dubious to use this comic as legitimate proof of Prime being cognizant of Marvel Comics when he's never once mentioned them outside this specific issue where it conveniently crosses over with Marvel. Until he actually brings them up in the MAIN continuity, you shouldn't presume this is canon. This is the same rationale Death Battle gave for not giving Godzilla scaling from elseworlds stories and other crossovers.

Tbf the old crossovers are canon though and Thanos vs Darkseid acknowledged that one

 

[Rozeyroze]

Hold your horses there pal, this is from a crossover event; said crossover event literally has Marvel and DC characters coexisting in the same universe as if there was no change to their continuity.

It's dubious to use this comic as legitimate proof of Prime being cognizant of Marvel Comics when he's never once mentioned them outside this specific issue where it conveniently crosses over with Marvel. Until he actually brings them up in the MAIN continuity, you shouldn't presume this is canon. This is the same rationale Death Battle gave for not giving Godzilla scaling from elseworlds stories and other crossovers.

Yeah no, we dont pull this argument when prime himself mentions that the events of secret wars and the ASM have happened and that's it the same Peter from the black suit Superman.

And if u wanna get technical, prime did sing the amazing Spider-Man TV show theme song in the ongoing superman run 3 days after the crossover dropped.

This restrictive idea that "if the events of the crossover are not mentioned word for word, it didn't happen" is stupid, we literally see canon 616 and DC comics throughout the story and even a editors not referencing a canon story point in ASM annual.

Godzilla scaling isn't the same because we never get blatant confirmation that its set in time from main canon DC or marvel, best u get is the Thor fight where it tells us it's the same Godzilla from the movie. Even then, it tells us nothing about Thor being his mainline counter part

The prime and Spider-Man story gives us both of that, there's 0 reason to assume these are different versions