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DEATH BATTLE! Discussion Thread (All-time Death Battle Spoilers Alert)

Doggo said:
Does Kuwabara have FTL scaling and resist spatial hax?

Stands also have layered invisibility, so he might not even see The Hand.
Click to expand...
Okuyasu doesn't scale to Hang man and one of the researcher argue resisting Spatial fuckery in the black box in yesterdays epi

kuwabara would still sense him

also kuwabara would just ki flare his to dust
 
What's Metal gonna do when Cell pulls out this
images
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Definitely, if yall want to just rush them into being accepted it would be a massive help
Click to expand...
You know perfectly well that's not why he say that..
For my part, I'll probably read a few, but I won't comment (I don't know anything about most of the verse on the list, so I wouldn't be able to contribute much).
 
Doggo said:
What are the main things people disagree with Bowser vs Eggman the most?
Click to expand...
Here's my list off the top of my head. I have a few more issues with the episodes conclusion but these are the major ones. Or at least the ones I can explain as it also felt like Death Battle acted like team Eggman were just NPCs that would just let things happen in the analysis but I would have trouble explaining that one. Also I might want to fact check their black hole calc for Bowser at some point as I found it strange they assumed that random planetoid near the black hole was 12,000km in diameter but maybe that one is correct I'm not really sure.

Sage's simulations: This one was weird. First they tried to discredit the accuracy of Sage's simulations in a black box by claiming she's been wrong in the past in regards to Sonic defying her predictions however the problems with that are two fold. First even if taken at face value we know Sage came up with two hyper specific ways to defeat The End in the two possible endings for Sonic Frontiers both of which succeeded in spite of how powerful The End was so even if she does have the potential to be slightly wrong on things it is still a bit absurd to dismiss her outright when her accuracy in finding win conditions has been far greater than her supposed failures. Second Sonic is strongly implied to be a special case by the narrative of Sonic Frontiers so much so that there are arguments for him resisting actual fate manipulation from that game so just because Sonic alone can defy Sage's predictions it doesn't mean that anyone else can by default. That aside though the real reason they dismissed Sage's simulations being a major factor in this fight was outright laughable.

- Across Bowsers 98,000,000+ troops there were too many combinations of power ups for Sage to predict.

Okay no, just no. This is a fight where team Eggman alone has a monster that can delete an entire timeline, the Death Egg with it's constellation annihalating Final Egg Blaster and more sources of planet scale AOE than they would know what to do with. So already the suggestion that either sides fodder would do anything is "one billion lions vs the sun" levels of insane but to also say that Sage would have no awnser for a bunch of Goombas, Koopas and so on using basic power ups is a lazy dismissal of her simulations with no logical standing that I could think of.

Chaos Emeralds vs Grand Stars: They were weirdly dismissive of multiversal Chaos Emeralds even though a Pure Hearts comparison was right there. Basically they claimed that the Chaos Emeralds were universal off their feat in Sonic Rush and therefore comparable to universal Grand Stars. But then they said the Chaos Emeralds were only maybe multiversal for empowering the multiversal Solaris only to then say that doesn't matter anyways because Bowser has hundreds of Grand Stars even if the Emeralds are multivesal. Okay first there is no maybe with powering up Solaris, if Solaris is multiversal so are the Chaos Emeralds and with how Death Battle put no effort into debunking Solaris being multiversal them saying the Chaos Emeralds are only  maybe multivesal is a verbal sleight of hand, straight up. Second why did they provide absolutely zero explanation for why quantity beats or equals quality in their comparison if the Chaos Emeralds are superior to Grand Stars, that's just odd to gloss over and it seemed like they just didn't want Eggman to have any solid advantage besides intelligence even when the Wonder Flower supposedly being better than the Phantom Ruby gave them enough reason to call the Trump Cards catagory a tie if they did give the Chaos Emeralds that scaling win against Grand Stars anyways (assuming in that alternate scenario they still don't mention the Pure Hearts). Third a Pure Hearts comparison was right there why didn't they use it, I mean Solaris and Super Dimentio are practically 1-1 in the feats they'd preform so it isn't like they even had to make the clunky comparison that they did to argue for Bowser but they did it anyways for some strange reason (also the Pure Hearts were crucial for resisting Eggman's win conditions according to them so they had no reason to not verbally bring them up).

Phantom Ruby downplay: This one isn't too hard to articulate thankfully. Saying the Phantom Ruby isn't "real" reality warping and is therefore inferior to the Wonder Flower by default is paper thin reasoning at best (even if we ignore Sonic Mania where the Phantom Ruby doesn't seem to be solely illusion based). The reasons why are as follows and some of these are questions for the comparison itself.
  • Does it even matter if the Phantom Ruby has powers that are less "real" to begin with if said powers have real effects on it's targets regardless?
  • Does the Phantom Ruby being selectively "real" actually come with benefits that make the debate more nuanced like how a Phantom Ruby user can eliminate friendly fire by just willing their illusions to not hurt their own side even with massive AOE while the Wonder Flower is more...wild to say the least.
  • Does it matter that Eggman has three Phantom Rubies, the original and the two prototype Rubies while Bowser only has a single Wonder Flower meaning the Phantom Rubies are more replaceable if Eggman loses one during the battle.

No. None of that just the Phantom Ruby is less real and that's all. No nuance whatsoever oh and they also made a point of the Egg Field requiring prep time in this fight for some reason, as if nothing else in this fight is non-standard.

Team loyalty somehow being a deciding factor: This will be my last criticism just so I don't end up writing a book. On a surface level the point itself is ridiculous to entertain, almost everyone who has ever betrayed Eggman wasn't in this battle (unless Team Eggman gets people like the real Shadow or Dr. Starline helping him) and the ones that were only betrayed Eggman under special circumstances that would not be in play here. The only exception to that is the Heavy King and by extension the Hard Boiled Heavies however none of them are top tiers that would impact the fight much and being blunt are we really going to act like King Boo is the epitome of loyalty on Bowser's side. 99.999% of Eggman's side being loyal or at least willing to fight alongside him aside that was once again such a non nuanced point that felt as though it was solely there for a narrative about how Bowser is so much of a better leader than Eggman which is true but it isn't something that matters much in a vs discussion and it did little to help with the sense that they didn't care much about Eggman at all while they glorified Bowser.

TLDR: This post was a mistake. I found lots of Death Battles reasoning shaky at best and to me the worst part about the research was that most of that surface level reasoning was preventable. They could have argued Sage's simulations require data and that perhaps it would be unlikely she could aquire enough data on team Bowser to make a winning plan before team Eggman loses too many assets to the hax of Bowser, King Boo and Kamek, they could have compared the Chaos Emeralds to the Pure Hearts among other things but instead they seemingly made a conclusion you aren't really supposed to think too hard about where they wanted Bowser to stomp while still acting like the fight is close without portraying it that way in the vs battle equivalent to having your cake and eating it too.
 
Doggo said:
What are the main things people disagree with Bowser vs Eggman the most?
Click to expand...
Anyways thanks I guess for the excuse to write about that one last time.
That monster of a post will be the last of my BS I promise lol.
 
I could write bigger list to write my problems with BowserEggman verdict but maybe not now since I know Sonic Scholars already pissed of this thread last year, Snek's post only cover small part of it lol

One thing they said that annoys me is "Just comparing their conquests makes it clear; the Eggman Empire took over the whole planet, but Bowser's Troop conquered most of the universe." like ************ those piss ass "Galaxies" did not have any real defenses, Eggman literally stole planets from faraway the universe too and only Eggman ACTUALLY affected the universe, all of time and space via Time Eater, Bowser has never actually affected entire universe. They tried to do the generalized ending statement but its honestly just blatantly wrong.
 
TMaakkonen said:
Eggman ACTUALLY affected the universe, all of time and space via Time Eater
Click to expand...
I'm really starting to dislike the whole time Eater misconception thing more, Summer can you come closer so I can take care of it.
But true Eggman's accomplishment was underestimated and colors stuff is proving that, I think both Sonic rush games are better examples of universal conquest.
 
I'm terrible at naming things
It's either "Kind Souls Shining like Starlight" or "Union of Shining Soul"
Both are kinda terrible
 
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
To be fair, Batman vs Snake would be peak fighting choreography if they actually get someone skilled enough to animate it.
Click to expand...
I think my main worry about it is that it might devolve into prep time hell for Batman's case, but honestly I feel Bats has tons of arguments for him winning even with his lower tier tech so eh.

They might honestly just exclude Batman's higher stuff if they feel he doesn't need it to win, just like they did with Thor vs Vegeta.
 
Last edited:
ShakeResounding said:
The ironic thing is he isn't even subtle about it, he just immediately starts moaning like a little sissy every time someone dares to criticize his dearest masterpiece.
Click to expand...
That kind of comment crosses the line. Mocking people with personal insults is not good. Tone it down before this turns into a problem for you.
 
I think it's funny that Shigaraki vs Mahito might be the most "flawless" Death Battle in recent memory imo, in which I can't really think of any major thing, from the fight to the research, the episode does wrong other than Mahito's stats being fairly highballed. But that one is even kind of excusable because it doesn't really affect the outcome that much + I kinda get why they did it considering the massive stat advantage Shiggy has (The usual high ball for the loser to make it more "fair")
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
I think it's funny that Shigaraki vs Mahito might be the most "flawless" Death Battle in recent memory imo, in which I can't really think of any major thing, from the fight to the research, the episode does wrong other than Mahito's stats being fairly highballed. But that one is even kind of excusable because it doesn't really affect the outcome that much + I kinda get why they did it considering the massive stat advantage Shiggy has (The usual high ball for the loser to make it more "fair")
Click to expand...
The only major flaw I can think of off the top of my head is that they hired Sean Chiplock

Do with that information what you will.
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
I think it's funny that Shigaraki vs Mahito might be the most "flawless" Death Battle in recent memory imo, in which I can't really think of any major thing, from the fight to the research, the episode does wrong other than Mahito's stats being fairly highballed. But that one is even kind of excusable because it doesn't really affect the outcome that much + I kinda get why they did it considering the massive stat advantage Shiggy has (The usual high ball for the loser to make it more "fair")
Click to expand...
It created Baddie which caused degeneracy :^)
 
Snek said:
Here's my list off the top of my head. I have a few more issues with the episodes conclusion but these are the major ones. Or at least the ones I can explain as it also felt like Death Battle acted like team Eggman were just NPCs that would just let things happen in the analysis but I would have trouble explaining that one. Also I might want to fact check their black hole calc for Bowser at some point as I found it strange they assumed that random planetoid near the black hole was 12,000km in diameter but maybe that one is correct I'm not really sure.

Sage's simulations: This one was weird. First they tried to discredit the accuracy of Sage's simulations in a black box by claiming she's been wrong in the past in regards to Sonic defying her predictions however the problems with that are two fold. First even if taken at face value we know Sage came up with two hyper specific ways to defeat The End in the two possible endings for Sonic Frontiers both of which succeeded in spite of how powerful The End was so even if she does have the potential to be slightly wrong on things it is still a bit absurd to dismiss her outright when her accuracy in finding win conditions has been far greater than her supposed failures. Second Sonic is strongly implied to be a special case by the narrative of Sonic Frontiers so much so that there are arguments for him resisting actual fate manipulation from that game so just because Sonic alone can defy Sage's predictions it doesn't mean that anyone else can by default. That aside though the real reason they dismissed Sage's simulations being a major factor in this fight was outright laughable.

- Across Bowsers 98,000,000+ troops there were too many combinations of power ups for Sage to predict.

Okay no, just no. This is a fight where team Eggman alone has a monster that can delete an entire timeline, the Death Egg with it's constellation annihalating Final Egg Blaster and more sources of planet scale AOE than they would know what to do with. So already the suggestion that either sides fodder would do anything is "one billion lions vs the sun" levels of insane but to also say that Sage would have no awnser for a bunch of Goombas, Koopas and so on using basic power ups is a lazy dismissal of her simulations with no logical standing that I could think of.
Click to expand...
Reading this and trying not to laugh myself to death as the most recent IDW issue has Sage brag about being able to compile millions of predictions in seconds only for her be unable to predict the best course of action for a simply three way path within a cave just a few pages later.
AP1GczNjZeGX3V3G0Mt7526VYCeMD6IilRsCD2tYJdYUjot2neretgMl9xZeJnvGu-tWetxrfhL_WvLpZuPqUvlkg-GHfQU2onREvmHJ3tUbW7g1otQIym0=s0
AP1GczNI-V5qT16qduNYugNnBJ7IsvG7h9b61Lr4a9ntC0VYDaQIvwUcuZiI3JWAynJK420SjxKM_npYEgY0DMFbwk0CQMN-IFfNzGtk49bJOnAxo9tQiqg=s0

This is the first time I've ever had a counterargument be practically giftwrapped to me with how this issue came out just last week.
 
AcidSilver said:
Reading this and trying not to laugh myself to death as the most recent IDW issue has Sage brag about being able to compile millions of predictions in seconds only for her be unable to predict the best course of action for a simply three way path within a cave just a few pages later.
This is the first time I've ever had a counterargument be practically giftwrapped to me with how this issue came out just last week.
Click to expand...
THE PROPHECY
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
Me need context
Click to expand...
In short, he's:

  • Commissioned literal furry ****
  • Has been accused of child grooming (which I've admittedly not seen much proof of, but that's because I'm a Vic Mignogna supporter, and I don't believe in 'muh accusations' as the be-all-end-all of a debate/drama like this)
  • Shilled SAG Union wildcat strikes, when even those tacitly in favor believed pro-SAG types were going too far.
  • Wished for anyone right of him to get Charlie Kirk'd
  • Is just all around a general asshole.
 
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