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Ash vs yugi 600k in 8 hours so far
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DEATH BATTLE! Discussion Thread (All-time Death Battle Spoilers Alert)
- Thread starter TMaakkonen
- Start date
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It's not a contest Sean
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Definitely bookmarking that, though I meant for us to talk about and cross reference how we will be indexing the profiles.
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When Ash versus Yugi was announced, I both dreaded the announcement but I also felt excited because Ash and Yugi are two very important childhood icons to me. While my relationship with Pokémon anime has been very on-and-off after the original five seasons, I would always watch some of Ash's significant and iconic fights post-Johto League. I witnessed news-worthy history being made when Ash defeated Leon at the end of Pokémon Journeys (watched the Japanese episode live). And you know, ever since being a child, I played most of the generations of Pokémon games starting with the original Pokémon Red. Someone earlier in the thread made this ramble of Pokémon fans being bootlickers who are to blame for the constant slop that the series has churned out. Perhaps. The quality of Pokémon games has been pretty abyssmal in recent years, but I would go out on a limb and say it has always paled in comparison to other games and series, but that never deterred me from having fun one way or another.
As for Yu-Gi-Oh, I never finished the actual show unfortunately, but I did get into the TCG the moment the TV show aired in my country, though I did not properly engage with the card game until the Xyz era, and nowadays I play the game on Master Duel. I still have plenty of cards and I like playing the game though I am also allergic to the meta, one of the reasons being that my sub-rogue deck barely holds a candle but I digress. I also loved watching the Yu-Gi-Oh the Abridged Series, which was what motivated me getting back into the TCG after all those years the series stopped broadcasting in my country. So either way, I was going to win and lose.
And initially I really thought that Ash's saving grace was him having better stats than Yugi as per the VS Battle Wiki profiles demonstrate, but then I recalled how Yugi has a bunch of hax by virtue of the card game and the series' world-building. So when I recalled things like Raigeki, Dark Hole, Mirror Force, Magic Cyllinder, Time Wizard, I was like "how is Ash supposed to deal with this?", but I still held hope because I did primarily root for him. But once the G1 blog popped up and I read through most of its analysis and noticed how no one voted in Ash's favour, I was like "Yep, Ash is cooked. Absolutely cooked."
As for the Death Battle video, it was overall pretty great. Despite his loss, I never got the impression the people at Death Battle clowned on him and his legacy, they fairly accessed his strength and feats. It is a shame that not a lot of monsters from either Yugi or Ash's side got a lot of screentime, or any at all, but I think one's expectations need to be rather minimal when it is but a 3-5 minute battle. I do not think it is enough to show all the GOATS and smaller GOATS doing cool stuff, though it surprised me that Black Luster Soldier's only appearance was him being blasted by Mega Lucario. At least some of my favourite Pokémon from Ash's team got cool moments, namely Pikachu, Charizard, Greninja, and Lucario. It is a shame we did not see Lycanroc-Dusk or Melmetal doing anything of note. Even if he still lost a Death Battle, Charizard's showing here was much cooler than his Battle Royale episode or his battle against Wargreymon because his attack effectively brought Yugi from 4000 LP to 2200 LP by destoying a Giant Solider of Stone in attack position (the feat would be even more impressive if GSoS was in defense position and Charizard happened to have piercing damage!). Not too shabby for the OG GOAT.
Some other moments I really loved were regular Yugi being the one left standing and being the one to win rather than it being Yami Yugi; Ash being backed against the wall yet still giving it his all, the 10 million Volt Z-move moment while seeing Ash in his various outfits (though his Kalos outfit seemed absent); Ash-Greninja slicing through the Millenium Puzzle, leaving Yugi with just 250 LP remaining; and Nebby the Solgaleo going all-out against a combined attack from Holactie and the Dark Magicians.
I recall some people here being disappointed that Ash got defeated partially by Magic Cyllinder, and while I understand it being a little anti-climactic, it is also fitting because this is Yu-Gi-Oh we're talking about. You have not properly experienced Yu-Gi-Oh if you did not have the proverbial rug being pulled from under during a match--that you are at a point where it is all or nothing, and your final gambit gets overturned or negated by a hand trap, a trap card, or a Kaiju monster. And it still did justice to both of them: to Ash because when push comes to shove he will go for one final attack, and to Yugi for always having an additional trick up his sleeve (courtesy of the Heert of the Cards, and a healthy dosis of probability & fate manipulation).
The post-battle analysis was also pretty interesting because it basically said "Hey, even if we were to scale Ash to the Creation Trio and to the video game series, Yugi would still rival if not exceed Ash in raw strength due to higher cosmology and possessing the series' equivalent of Arceus". Yugi has so many wincons whereas Ash's wincons partially rely on Yugi fumbling or restricting his hax abilities, which I do not see him doing. Even if we were to place their cosmologies on the same level, that if the stats are more or less the same, Ash is not going to win, even then. Rei/Akari might have a better chance if only having Arceus on speed-dial and thereby possibly receiving grace from Arceus' true form whereas Arceus only helped out Ash when the multiverse itself was in peril and Ash and his friends were completely out of options (via prayer obviously, but still). Thus, I accept the overall verdict because even if Death Battle assessed Ash's power level lower than I wanted to, scaling-wise, it would not have mattered.
The track is a certified banger as well.
Looking back on the 2024/2025 Kickstarter season of Death Battle, I am at the very least happy that my two GOATS (outerversal) Simon the Digger and Persona 5's Joker got the W, and also that Godzilla Ultima got the L because having the Entity win would have made for a pretty bleak episode. For next year, I really hope to see more representation coming from Tokusatsu. We at least got Kamen Rider Geats vs Fate's Nero guaranteed, but I still hope to see the OG Kamen Rider in a Death Battle episode. I would also love to see Xenoblade, Tales of Symphonia and outerversal Persona / Shin Megami Tensei in Death Battle (they really lowballed Joker with him just being a universe-buster though going at length of how he's outerversal would have only made his win against Giorno much more obvious and of a stomp than it already was).
Edit: I also hope we get to see Ash in a future match-up. I really want him getting an honest W, but I also cannot think of any good match-up without making him the second coming of Deku the Street-tier slayer.
As for Yu-Gi-Oh, I never finished the actual show unfortunately, but I did get into the TCG the moment the TV show aired in my country, though I did not properly engage with the card game until the Xyz era, and nowadays I play the game on Master Duel. I still have plenty of cards and I like playing the game though I am also allergic to the meta, one of the reasons being that my sub-rogue deck barely holds a candle but I digress. I also loved watching the Yu-Gi-Oh the Abridged Series, which was what motivated me getting back into the TCG after all those years the series stopped broadcasting in my country. So either way, I was going to win and lose.
And initially I really thought that Ash's saving grace was him having better stats than Yugi as per the VS Battle Wiki profiles demonstrate, but then I recalled how Yugi has a bunch of hax by virtue of the card game and the series' world-building. So when I recalled things like Raigeki, Dark Hole, Mirror Force, Magic Cyllinder, Time Wizard, I was like "how is Ash supposed to deal with this?", but I still held hope because I did primarily root for him. But once the G1 blog popped up and I read through most of its analysis and noticed how no one voted in Ash's favour, I was like "Yep, Ash is cooked. Absolutely cooked."
As for the Death Battle video, it was overall pretty great. Despite his loss, I never got the impression the people at Death Battle clowned on him and his legacy, they fairly accessed his strength and feats. It is a shame that not a lot of monsters from either Yugi or Ash's side got a lot of screentime, or any at all, but I think one's expectations need to be rather minimal when it is but a 3-5 minute battle. I do not think it is enough to show all the GOATS and smaller GOATS doing cool stuff, though it surprised me that Black Luster Soldier's only appearance was him being blasted by Mega Lucario. At least some of my favourite Pokémon from Ash's team got cool moments, namely Pikachu, Charizard, Greninja, and Lucario. It is a shame we did not see Lycanroc-Dusk or Melmetal doing anything of note. Even if he still lost a Death Battle, Charizard's showing here was much cooler than his Battle Royale episode or his battle against Wargreymon because his attack effectively brought Yugi from 4000 LP to 2200 LP by destoying a Giant Solider of Stone in attack position (the feat would be even more impressive if GSoS was in defense position and Charizard happened to have piercing damage!). Not too shabby for the OG GOAT.
Some other moments I really loved were regular Yugi being the one left standing and being the one to win rather than it being Yami Yugi; Ash being backed against the wall yet still giving it his all, the 10 million Volt Z-move moment while seeing Ash in his various outfits (though his Kalos outfit seemed absent); Ash-Greninja slicing through the Millenium Puzzle, leaving Yugi with just 250 LP remaining; and Nebby the Solgaleo going all-out against a combined attack from Holactie and the Dark Magicians.
I recall some people here being disappointed that Ash got defeated partially by Magic Cyllinder, and while I understand it being a little anti-climactic, it is also fitting because this is Yu-Gi-Oh we're talking about. You have not properly experienced Yu-Gi-Oh if you did not have the proverbial rug being pulled from under during a match--that you are at a point where it is all or nothing, and your final gambit gets overturned or negated by a hand trap, a trap card, or a Kaiju monster. And it still did justice to both of them: to Ash because when push comes to shove he will go for one final attack, and to Yugi for always having an additional trick up his sleeve (courtesy of the Heert of the Cards, and a healthy dosis of probability & fate manipulation).
The post-battle analysis was also pretty interesting because it basically said "Hey, even if we were to scale Ash to the Creation Trio and to the video game series, Yugi would still rival if not exceed Ash in raw strength due to higher cosmology and possessing the series' equivalent of Arceus". Yugi has so many wincons whereas Ash's wincons partially rely on Yugi fumbling or restricting his hax abilities, which I do not see him doing. Even if we were to place their cosmologies on the same level, that if the stats are more or less the same, Ash is not going to win, even then. Rei/Akari might have a better chance if only having Arceus on speed-dial and thereby possibly receiving grace from Arceus' true form whereas Arceus only helped out Ash when the multiverse itself was in peril and Ash and his friends were completely out of options (via prayer obviously, but still). Thus, I accept the overall verdict because even if Death Battle assessed Ash's power level lower than I wanted to, scaling-wise, it would not have mattered.
The track is a certified banger as well.
Looking back on the 2024/2025 Kickstarter season of Death Battle, I am at the very least happy that my two GOATS (outerversal) Simon the Digger and Persona 5's Joker got the W, and also that Godzilla Ultima got the L because having the Entity win would have made for a pretty bleak episode. For next year, I really hope to see more representation coming from Tokusatsu. We at least got Kamen Rider Geats vs Fate's Nero guaranteed, but I still hope to see the OG Kamen Rider in a Death Battle episode. I would also love to see Xenoblade, Tales of Symphonia and outerversal Persona / Shin Megami Tensei in Death Battle (they really lowballed Joker with him just being a universe-buster though going at length of how he's outerversal would have only made his win against Giorno much more obvious and of a stomp than it already was).
Edit: I also hope we get to see Ash in a future match-up. I really want him getting an honest W, but I also cannot think of any good match-up without making him the second coming of Deku the Street-tier slayer.
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With the burning eyes and the eye of Wdjat? He was 100% pissed in that moment. Atem in that moment briefly reverted to his Season 0 self.
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Also, I appreciate how they snuck in a reference to this bumper
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BRO I JUST REALIZED OSHAWOTT WENT DOWN SIMPING LOL! BRO SAW THE GODDESS OF CREATION AND DARK MAGICIAN GIRL AND PULLED HIS OWN VERSION OF THE WILLEM DAFOE MEME
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It's a popular mu with both relevant franchise and actually had decent promotion
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Yeah more or less, it follows the origins of the manga and is more closely rooted to it than the anime is. It covers the first 59 chapters of the manga, so going from 0 to 1 will have you backtracking a fair bit
ZeNoviceArtist
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A new user! Hello
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Lucy Heartfilia
OrangeFR
Username Only- 1,714
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"Yeah bro they'll do Luzanne this time for sure!" Bro istg this MU is never happening.Updated mine (post-AshYugi)
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KAMEN RIDER OUTSIDERS SCALING
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
He/Him- 5,382
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Genuinely **** Death Battle for this shot.
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That is unfortunately Ash's second most popular MU
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
He/Him- 5,382
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I can't believe I was ready to forgive Death Battle for Pokemon VS Digimon. They haven't learned shit except how to glaze Pokemon's opponents better.
ZeNoviceArtist
He/Him- 6,049
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Aye, Future Gohan vs Invincible War mentioned.
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it's not a competition Sean, there is no "opponents" between fictional franchises, Yu-Gi-Oh! and Pokemon haven't addressed eachother in years, being so aggressive about fictional characters losing is just sad, you need to grow up for your own good
edit:Also Pokemon VS Digimon was like, Season 2... that was at the time they purposely didn't take anything seriously
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Luzanne is the modern version of Cole vs Alex in that DB decides not to do it for so long for some inane reason that by the time they end up doing it both franchises are no longer talked about.
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
He/Him- 5,382
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There absolutely are with how awful these people are treating Pokemon and how Death Battle only treats Pokemon as their punching bag. These ***** who somehow belong to the same species as me are just allowed to freely shit on everything I’ve ever stood for and then soapbox about how I’m the bad guy the whole time. And now I’ve been proven absolutely right, about everything, again, and to swat away criticism they’re trying to spin this as a W for both verses. You people are absolutely my enemy.
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Machamp vs Goro (the latter died horribly and rightfully so).
0ホルスファルコン将軍0
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Sorry I legitimately did not mean to come off as disrespectful. I was trying to convey it matter of factly that because the creator’s passing no more new content can be made meaning that by extension the series is dead/in limbo. I once again apologize for saying that quip so flippantly.
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
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Yeah, what about it?
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Who won that match, Sean? Because I don't think it's the guy who's in the Kilotons wanking a bit.
(Goro is among the characters who's used to make other characters like Kotal seem strong)
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GX Seasons 3 and 4 follow in a rather distant 2nd.
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Like, personally, I think that Ash was massively downplayed, as they didn't even say that the cosmology of Pokémon was infinite despite the arguments for so were existing from eons.
But I am not having an outburst about this, I'll just not care and move on. Can't really expect much from Sun Disc scaling after all.
But I am not having an outburst about this, I'll just not care and move on. Can't really expect much from Sun Disc scaling after all.
ZeNoviceArtist
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Character assassination for the 3 ash Oshawatt fans in chat (he did more than simp)
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Thoughts on Icon vs Blue Marvel?
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Personally I don’t buy either Ash vs Yugi as being as strong as DB said they are (Yugi less so but just due to being less familiar with him). But I still believe that Yugi wins just due to the sheer amount of hax that Ash really had no answers for.
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Vader definitely.
Archie Mega Man, maybe, but if we're willing to count three distinct Charizards as Charizard going 0-3, I don't see counting Archie Mega Man being much different.
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