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DEATH BATTLE! Discussion Thread (All-time Death Battle Spoilers Alert)

Dust_Collector said:
Pikachu using it's pitiful 55 attack stat to hit Time Wizard with quick attack

FCfapqIXMAEYSUN.jpg
Click to expand...
FOOL! You FAILED to calculate the TRUE attack stat of Pikachu, as you simply used base stats, which do not account for Effort Values, Natures, and Individual Values! In actuality assuming max attack EVs and IVs as well as an attack boosting nature, Pikachu will have an attack stat of……….229!



Ash fans it’s wraps, we getting physically soled by Time Wizard
 
Dust_Collector said:
Pikachu using it's pitiful 55 attack stat to hit Time Wizard with quick attack

FCfapqIXMAEYSUN.jpg
Click to expand...
plot
OrangeFR said:
FOOL! You FAILED to calculate the TRUE attack stat of Pikachu, as you simply used base stats, which do not account for Effort Values, Natures, and Individual Values! In actuality assuming max attack EVs and IVs as well as an attack boosting nature, Pikachu will have an attack stat of……….229!



Ash fans it’s wraps, we getting physically soled by Time Wizard
Click to expand...
ash can just... kill it
 
I'm really looking forward to Ash/Yugi and like the MU a lot, but my word looking around and seeing how utterly terrible a lot of the arguments given in Ash's favour are is maddening. I've seen such gems like:

"Ash scales to the Creation Trio because Garchomp deflected one singular attack from Palkia" (Not only was Garchomp the one to initiate the attack here, which means a lot of people bringing this up haven't actually watched the episode this happened in, but if Cynthia's Garchomp was actually as powerful as the Creation Trio, why would she resort to literally praying with the gang for Arceus' help when Dialga & Palkia return and start fighting in Journeys, where she's supposedly much stronger than in D/P? Shouldn't her Garchomp be on par with them at this point and make beating them fairly trivial through sheer numbers? Furthermore, Ash was only able to beat Garchomp in Masters 8 by Mega Evolving Lucario, and he only gets to Mega Evolve once per battle. (also he was immensely lucky that Cynthia's Garchomp had a crap moveset with only Dragon attacks and no Ground moves)

"Ash has resistances to time manipulation & mental manipulation" (the time resistance is just pretty blatantly false given he was turned into a toddler by Dialga & Palkia's fighting in Journeys, and the effects from Time Wizard or Clock Card would unironically be stronger than what they did. I've seen people bring up 2 things for Ash's resistance to mental manipulation, either the "Too dumb to be mind controlled" line from a Unova filler, which has so many holes I don't even know where to start, or Ash breaking free from one of Lysandre's devices in X&Y, which he needed Pikachu's voice and Greninja's Battle Bond to break free from and was visibly exhausted afterwards. Meanwhile, Ash has had many more cases where he has either been possessed (once in Battle Frontier, once in the Hoopa movie, and twice in Journeys by random wild Spiritomb & Galarian Slowking) or mentally attacked (had his memories wiped by Mewtwo in the 1st Movie) and displayed no resistances whatsoever to either. So you could reasonably argue that the Lysandre incident is an outlier and that Ash more often than not shows no resistance whatsoever to mind attacks. Even if Ash somehow did, his Pokemon definitely do not have the same mental resistances, they get hit by moves like Confuse Ray and Hypnosis all the time and can't even break free through Ash's shouting most of the time)

"Boldore's Sturdy would stop Yugi from using any of his OHKO spells/monsters" (Breath of Light OHKOs Rock monsters and is even able to bypass effects like "Cannot be destroyed by battle" - this is basically the most blatant verse equivilent to Sturdy, while Breath of Light acts like Mold Breaker and overrides it. Furthermore, cards like Thousand Knives could very reasonably be interpreted as multihit attacks, and just bypass Sturdy naturally since it doesn't protect against multihit moves. Boldore is also incredibly slow and bad at dodging attacks, so would be a very easy target)

"Snivy can just use Attract and immobilize Yugi's monsters who are mostly male" (this exact strategy has been used against Yugi before in canon by Mai Valentine, and he countered it by using Mystical Elf to stall with its strong defense while he built up his deck. Snivy is also frankly, incredibly low on the totem pole of Ash's mons, so could likely be vanquished before Attract even becomes a problem. This also assumes that Attract is given its anime properties and not its game properties, since if it's game Attract, Snivy just dies immediately since Attract only has a 50% chance to work per turn :LOL:)

"Noctowl/Staraptor can use Whirlwind to BFR Marshmallon or any problematic monster" (in contrast to the above, here's a case of Ash supporters trying to have their cake and eat it, and applying mechanics from the games to a move that does not have the same effect in the anime whatsoever. Whirlwind in the anime basically works like Gust and is just a strong wind which doesn't actually force a recall at all, so it would be basically useless in the fight)

"Ash can just use Melmetal to absorb Time Wizard as he's made of metal, or use priority moves and negate his time powers that take time to set up" (Ignoring how Yugi's a master strategist who would set up the field so that Time Wizard isn't vulnerable, Time Wizard isn't even Yugi's best form of time manipulation, he can use Time Seal or Clock Card which have all of the benefits and none of the drawbacks of Time Wizard. Furthermore, priority is a game only mechanic that isn't really applied by the anime, and if we assume Time Wizard is a Steel type and made of metal, he has a whopping 2 priority moves that would not be resisted by Steel, Mach Punch (Infernape) and Aqua Jet. (Buizel, Oshawott & Corphish)

A whole bunch of cases of people not knowing what moves Ash's Pokemon actually learn (I've seen a disappointingly large amount of people bring up attacks that none of Ash's Pokemon learn at all as potential counters to Yugi. Krookodile using Knock Off is probably the most common example, but I've seen the likes of Imprison, Roar, Taunt, just to name a few, be brought up when not a single Pokemon Ash owns can use them. This is basic fact checking stuff, they could just go to Bulbapedia where all of his Pokemon have the moves they know listed, how are they still getting this wrong?)

"Ash briefly interacted with insert Legendary here, he should get to use them in the fight" (not even joking I've seen people suggest Ash should get Celebi because he had the GS Ball with him for one season before giving it away, or Ho-Oh due to the times he's seen Ho-Oh fly over him, or even Arceus since Arceus saved him and the gang when he prayed for it to help him once. Even giving Ash Nebby is immensely generous, let alone Pokemon he has quite literally never even commanded to use an attack with)

"Ash can resurrect from being disintegrated into nothing, how can Yugi kill him?" (Not only is the movie where this happened explicitly sent in an alternate timeline and thus wouldn't count for mainline Ash, he was only able to do this through Ho-Oh (you know, the Legendary based on a phoenix with its signature item reviving your party) intervening, and can't just regenerate on a whim whenever he likes)

"Basically every Gengar argument" (dear lord the cope with this guy. I've seen everything from "Gengar can separate Yugi from Atem", "Gengar can steal the Millenium Puzzle", "Gengar would beat Atem 1v1", "Gigantamax Gengar can send Yugi's monsters straight to the afterlife", or "Gengar's bad luck would override Yugi's fate hax". And it's all insane wank or wouldn't do anything whatsoever!! The "bad luck" thing is especially bad since the idea Gengar has some passive bad luck cursing ability is a spitball line from Goh about why his old trainer abandoned him, which is disproven in the very same episode it's mentioned! And the Millenium Puzzle is booby trapped to hell and back to safeguard Yugi against soul invasion, so any hax Gengar might have would just be ineffective and be more likely to trap Gengar in the Puzzle than anything else.)

This isn't even bringing up people trying to argue for composite Pokemon, which I disagree with on a fundamental level, Pokemon if anything is one of the series which should have the most separation between games, anime, and manga!
BlackDarkness679 said:
And her main outfit is a see through dress, which she allows you to see according to her

Click to expand...


Probably an unpopular take here, but god I'm not looking forward to Fate being on the show. It is NEVER beating the gooner allegations.
 
Last edited:
Crashandcortexs said:
I'm really looking forward to Ash/Yugi and like the MU a lot, but my word looking around and seeing how utterly terrible a lot of the arguments given in Ash's favour are is maddening. I've seen such gems like:

"Ash scales to the Creation Trio because Garchomp deflected one singular attack from Palkia" (Not only was Garchomp the one to initiate the attack here, which means a lot of people bringing this up haven't actually watched the episode this happened in, but if Cynthia's Garchomp was actually as powerful as the Creation Trio, why would she resort to literally praying with the gang for Arceus' help when Dialga & Palkia return and start fighting in Journeys, where she's supposedly much stronger than in D/P? Shouldn't her Garchomp be on par with them at this point and make beating them fairly trivial through sheer numbers? Furthermore, Ash was only able to beat Garchomp in Masters 8 by Mega Evolving Lucario, and he only gets to Mega Evolve once per battle. (also he was immensely lucky that Cynthia's Garchomp had a crap moveset with only Dragon attacks and no Ground moves)

"Ash has resistances to time manipulation & mental manipulation" (the time resistance is just pretty blatantly false given he was turned into a toddler by Dialga & Palkia's fighting in Journeys, and the effects from Time Wizard or Clock Card would unironically be stronger than what they did. I've seen people bring up 2 things for Ash's resistance to mental manipulation, either the "Too dumb to be mind controlled" line from a Unova filler, which has so many holes I don't even know where to start, or Ash breaking free from one of Lysandre's devices in X&Y, which he needed Pikachu's voice and Greninja's Battle Bond to break free from and was visibly exhausted afterwards. Meanwhile, Ash has had many more cases where he has either been possessed (once in Battle Frontier, once in the Hoopa movie, and twice in Journeys by random wild Spiritomb & Galarian Slowking) or mentally attacked (had his memories wiped by Mewtwo in the 1st Movie) and displayed no resistances whatsoever to either. So you could reasonably argue that the Lysandre incident is an outlier and that Ash more often than not shows no resistance whatsoever to mind attacks. Even if Ash somehow did, his Pokemon definitely do not have the same mental resistances, they get hit by moves like Confuse Ray and Hypnosis all the time and can't even break free through Ash's shouting most of the time)

"Boldore's Sturdy would stop Yugi from using any of his OHKO spells/monsters" (Breath of Light OHKOs Rock monsters and is even able to bypass effects like "Cannot be destroyed by battle" - this is basically the most blatant verse equivilent to Sturdy, while Breath of Light acts like Mold Breaker and overrides it. Furthermore, cards like Thousand Knives could very reasonably be interpreted as multihit attacks, and just bypass Sturdy naturally since it doesn't protect against multihit moves. Boldore is also incredibly slow and bad at dodging attacks, so would be a very easy target)

"Snivy can just use Attract and immobilize Yugi's monsters who are mostly male" (this exact strategy has been used against Yugi before in canon by Mai Valentine, and he countered it by using Mystical Elf to stall with its strong defense while he built up his deck. Snivy is also frankly, incredibly low on the totem pole of Ash's mons, so could likely be vanquished before Attract even becomes a problem. This also assumes that Attract is given its anime properties and not its game properties, since if it's game Attract, Snivy just dies immediately since Attract only has a 50% chance to work per turn :LOL:)

"Noctowl/Staraptor can use Whirlwind to BFR Marshmallon or any problematic monster" (in contrast to the above, here's a case of Ash supporters trying to have their cake and eat it, and applying mechanics from the games to a move that does not have the same effect in the anime whatsoever. Whirlwind in the anime basically works like Gust and is just a strong wind which doesn't actually force a recall at all, so it would be basically useless in the fight)

"Ash can just use Melmetal to absorb Time Wizard as he's made of metal, or use priority moves and negate his time powers that take time to set up" (Ignoring how Yugi's a master strategist who would set up the field so that Time Wizard isn't vulnerable, Time Wizard isn't even Yugi's best form of time manipulation, he can use Time Seal or Clock Card which have all of the benefits and none of the drawbacks of Time Wizard. Furthermore, priority is a game only mechanic that isn't really applied by the anime, and if we assume Time Wizard is a Steel type and made of metal, he has a whopping 2 priority moves that would not be resisted by Steel, Mach Punch (Infernape) and Aqua Jet. (Buizel, Oshawott & Corphish)

A whole bunch of cases of people not knowing what moves Ash's Pokemon actually learn (I've seen a disappointingly large amount of people bring up attacks that none of Ash's Pokemon learn at all as potential counters to Yugi. Krookodile using Knock Off is probably the most common example, but I've seen the likes of Imprison, Roar, Taunt, just to name a few, be brought up when not a single Pokemon Ash owns can use them. This is basic fact checking stuff, they could just go to Bulbapedia where all of his Pokemon have the moves they know listed, how are they still getting this wrong?)

"Ash briefly interacted with insert Legendary here, he should get to use them in the fight" (not even joking I've seen people suggest Ash should get Celebi because he had the GS Ball with him for one season before giving it away, or Ho-Oh due to the times he's seen Ho-Oh fly over him, or even Arceus since Arceus saved him and the gang when he prayed for it to help him once. Even giving Ash Nebby is immensely generous, let alone Pokemon he has quite literally never even commanded to use an attack with)

"Ash can resurrect from being disintegrated into nothing, how can Yugi kill him?" (Not only is the movie where this happened explicitly sent in an alternate timeline and thus wouldn't count for mainline Ash, he was only able to do this through Ho-Oh (you know, the Legendary based on a phoenix with its signature item reviving your party) intervening, and can't just regenerate on a whim whenever he likes)

"Basically every Gengar argument" (dear lord the cope with this guy. I've seen everything from "Gengar can separate Yugi from Atem", "Gengar can steal the Millenium Puzzle", "Gengar would beat Atem 1v1", "Gigantamax Gengar can send Yugi's monsters straight to the afterlife", or "Gengar's bad luck would override Yugi's fate hax". And it's all insane wank or wouldn't do anything whatsoever!! The "bad luck" thing is especially bad since the idea Gengar has some passive bad luck cursing ability is a spitball line from Goh about why his old trainer abandoned him, which is disproven in the very same episode it's mentioned! And the Millenium Puzzle is booby trapped to hell and back to safeguard Yugi against soul invasion, so any hax Gengar might have would just be ineffective and be more likely to trap Gengar in the Puzzle than anything else.)


Probably an unpopular take here, but god I'm not looking forward to Fate being on the show. It is NEVER beating the gooner allegations.
Click to expand...
pretty sure she would only be able to fight dialga or palkia, not both. Also they consistently fight legends in the anime. Ash can ressurect and it is consistent as seen in the Mewtwo movie. Time wizard has a specific range and i doubt ashs pokemon would just stand there.
 
Crashandcortexs said:
"Snivy can just use Attract and immobilize Yugi's monsters who are mostly male" (this exact strategy has been used against Yugi before in canon by Mai Valentine, and he countered it by using Mystical Elf to stall with its strong defense while he built up his deck. Snivy is also frankly, incredibly low on the totem pole of Ash's mons, so could likely be vanquished before Attract even becomes a problem. This also assumes that Attract is given its anime properties and not its game properties, since if it's game Attract, Snivy just dies immediately since Attract only has a 50% chance to work per turn :LOL:)
Click to expand...
There was also that one duel in GX that had a monster with the same effect as Attract and it was confirmed that female monsters can just snap male monsters out of a love-induced trance state

Crashandcortexs said:
"Ash can just use Melmetal to absorb Time Wizard as he's made of metal, or use priority moves and negate his time powers that take time to set up" (Ignoring how Yugi's a master strategist who would set up the field so that Time Wizard isn't vulnerable, Time Wizard isn't even Yugi's best form of time manipulation, he can use Time Seal or Clock Card which have all of the benefits and none of the drawbacks of Time Wizard. Furthermore, priority is a game only mechanic that isn't really applied by the anime, and if we assume Time Wizard is a Steel type and made of metal, he has a whopping 2 priority moves that would not be resisted by Steel, Mach Punch (Infernape) and Aqua Jet. (Buizel, Oshawott & Corphish)
Click to expand...
iirc theres also a bit about how Time Wizard is made of plastic parts because plastic doesnt degrade so it can resist its own time powers
Crashandcortexs said:
"Basically every Gengar argument" (dear lord the cope with this guy. I've seen everything from "Gengar can separate Yugi from Atem", "Gengar can steal the Millenium Puzzle", "Gengar would beat Atem 1v1", "Gigantamax Gengar can send Yugi's monsters straight to the afterlife", or "Gengar's bad luck would override Yugi's fate hax". And it's all insane wank or wouldn't do anything whatsoever!! The "bad luck" thing is especially bad since the idea Gengar has some passive bad luck cursing ability is a spitball line from Goh about why his old trainer abandoned him, which is disproven in the very same episode it's mentioned! And the Millenium Puzzle is booby trapped to hell and back to safeguard Yugi against soul invasion, so any hax Gengar might have would just be ineffective and be more likely to trap Gengar in the Puzzle than anything else.)
Click to expand...
Atem also has a passive barrier around his Ba that shields specifically against ghosts and spirits. Also Exile of the Wicked hard counters Gengar.
 
Thunderman101 said:
pretty sure she would only be able to fight dialga or palkia, not both. Also they consistently fight legends in the anime. Ash can ressurect and it is consistent as seen in the Mewtwo movie. Time wizard has a specific range and i doubt ashs pokemon would just stand there.
Click to expand...
Ash didnt resurrect on his own in the movie, Mewtwo and the other pokemon resurrected him
 
Crashandcortexs said:
Probably an unpopular take here, but god I'm not looking forward to Fate being on the show. It is NEVER beating the gooner allegations.
Click to expand...
The oneshot story where Nero offers to pose nude for one of her guards and then has him executed for fainting from how sexy she is but then says she'll bang him in the next life as a reward for appreciating her beauty
 
BlackDarkness679 said:
Hope you realize thar a lot of franchises have gooning in them
Click to expand...
And I will silently disapprove of the pandering every time I see it, it's especially bad in Fate though given the mobile games 😭

Thunderman101 said:
pretty sure she would only be able to fight dialga or palkia, not both. Also they consistently fight legends in the anime. Ash can ressurect and it is consistent as seen in the Mewtwo movie. Time wizard has a specific range and i doubt ashs pokemon would just stand there.
Click to expand...
He only got resurrected due to the Pokemon & their clones reviving Ash with their tears, something which would be quite difficult to do if a majority of Ash's Pokemon are already wiped out. He doesn't have any sort of innate regeneration by himself.

WeeklyBattles said:
iirc theres also a bit about how Time Wizard is made of plastic parts because plastic doesnt degrade so it can resist its own time powers
Click to expand...
This is amazing and even further invalidates the dumb Melmetal argument I've seen.

WeeklyBattles said:
The oneshot story where Nero offers to pose nude for one of her guards and then has him executed for fainting from how sexy she is but then says she'll bang him in the next life as a reward for appreciating her beauty
Click to expand...
This is... considerably not amazing. 😭
 
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