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DEATH BATTLE! Discussion Thread (All-time Death Battle Spoilers Alert)

My half-assed shitposts were right once again so Im selfishly happy because it wasnt my guy who lost.
 
The animation is beyond praise, but I'd especially like to highlight the stunning soundtrack. I'll definitely be adding it to my playlist.

However, the battle analysis is terrible, to say the least. So terrible that I simply refuse to acknowledge the results of this match, even though that's a strong statement. However, the verdict seems biased compared to the other fights:

1) AP: Is the Final Fantasy universe infinite? Because in the Godzilla match, the layering and infinite dimensions factored heavily. In DMC, characters also have the ability to influence two infinite universes at once, but that wasn't even mentioned.
2) Speed - why so little? Kratos's analysis used the speed of the shockwaves with which the universe was created. I was 100% certain that Mundus's feat of universe creation would be considered a feat of speed, which would have earned trillions of SoLs. Furthermore, quotes alluding to Immeasurable Speed are ignored.
3) Hax - where's the bullet-based disintegration? Where's the concept of names? Where's the analytical prediction and skill assessment? Dante is capable of completely killing characters far more resilient than Clive. How did Clive even recover from his attacks?

I have no problem with Clive winning, but the final argument makes no sense. I realized my guy Dante was already cooked when he was given 3x the speed of light.
 
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The animation is beyond praise, but I'd especially like to highlight the stunning soundtrack. I'll definitely be adding it to my playlist.

However, the battle analysis is terrible, to say the least. So terrible that I simply refuse to acknowledge the results of this match, even though that's a strong statement. However, the verdict seems biased compared to the other fights:

1) AP: Is the Final Fantasy universe infinite? Because in the Godzilla match, the layering and infinite dimensions factored heavily. In DMC, characters also have the ability to influence two infinite universes at once, but that wasn't even mentioned.
2) Speed - why so little? Kratos's analysis used the speed of the shockwaves with which the universe was created. I was 100% certain that Mundus's feat of universe creation would be considered a feat of speed, which would have earned trillions of SoLs. Furthermore, quotes alluding to Immeasurable Speed are ignored. 3) Hax - where's the bullet-based disintegration? Where's the concept of names? Where's the analytical prediction and skill assessment? Dante is capable of completely killing characters far more resilient than Clive. How did Clive even recover from his attacks?

I have no problem with Clive winning, but the final argument makes no sense. I realized my guy Dante was already cooked when he was given 3x the speed of light.
For the speed they mention the creation speed feat in the black box but I guess they went for something much easier to convey
 
I liked how Torrian made the fight jokes or references too

Clive pulling Dante after the Michael Jackson dance

"Dante....whats a motorbike?"

Also loved how with Dr Faust he danced around the electrical attacks, thats swag and aura lol

Recognizing Clive Zantetsuken move being like Vergil Judgement Cut End and comparing them

Clive punching him on the ground similar to what Nero did in DMC4 to him at the start

Animation its a no brainer, Torrian cooked, a shame he isnt part of Death Battle anymore, would be nice just like Ishmahawk to have more of their battles in the future, at least let it be a once per year thing
 
1) AP: Is the Final Fantasy universe infinite? Because in the Godzilla match, the layering and infinite dimensions factored heavily. In DMC, characters also have the ability to influence two infinite universes at once, but that wasn't even mentioned.
There is no single FF universe, all the games for the most part have different cosmologies and worlds unless they have stuff directly tying them together. in FF16s case there are no statements of infinite but its just 2 universes as well but if you factor in some other stuff there is parallel slop with some other dimension you could argue up to 4 universes for Clive but regardless I'd say 1~2 universes is best for him
Hax - where's the bullet-based disintegration? Where's the concept of names? Where's the analytical prediction and skill assessment? Dante is capable of completely killing characters far more resilient than Clive. How did Clive even recover from his attacks?
the rest of this though idek how this wasn't considered
 
I also do not believe Clive tying in strength here either. Dante in base as they said took down someone several orders of magnitude stronger than Mundus who was 2x universal, then still was able to beat Urizen after he ate the fruit which boosted him even further. The scaling there gets Dante at like dozens of times Universal, as opposed to Clive who'd get a couple times. Now granted I'm very inexperienced with scaling when we get into universal + levels, but this just seems like entirely incorrect.
 
I know no one is going to give a shit about pillocks like me for a take like this, but between all of the IP BS coming out of Nintendo/TPCi, and me being picked on by the year above me back at Exhall Grange for merely dignifying YGO with a response (before dropping the series and disavowing it when I realized how BS Yugi's level of fate/probability manip is), Ash vs Yugi is... not a MU I'm going to feel comfortable talking about.

I also don't think it's a coincidence that the last time I shat apes about a Pokemon episode in a VS format, it was within one other episode of VS featuring Dante from the Devil May Cry series. Why do I get the sneaking suspicion that the writing staff is doomed to learn nothing from last time?
 
Rewatching, I still find the fight more lightshow than CQC choreography, but there was good staging of most of the interesting power interactions. Royal Guard into Faust Hat counter was probably the most smooth, though Clive's Not Judgement Cut into (somehow) outdoing the Time Manipulation was as well.

I think the end of the space clash was just confusing, though; Clive wins the clash and is floating in place with Dante nowhere to be seen (presumably punched down to earth if not drowned out in the SFX), but Clive also falls and somehow hits the ground at the same time, even though he won the clash and was further away from the earth besides. And him getting the SSS prompt was also confusing, made me unsure if actually it was Dante who won the clash.

Excellent SFX elsewhere, though, somehow rivals the multi-million budgets of the games in question. Aside from that one clash, every attack and its effects were readable and distinct, and there were a lot of them to animate. Although I find intricate CQC much more timeless than fireworks. Come to think of it, with how many "bones" animated models have to deal with now -- dubious scripting aside, Kratos vs Asura looked so bad in large part because Kratos's model was so detailed as to be a nightmare to work with -- I'm not sure how feasible it is to do intricate CQC without deliberately cartoony models. It probably won't stick with me as strongly as, say, TJ Combo vs Balrog's tangible physical throwdown, but it's nice that Torrian is also able to stage a fireworks show so cleanly for the most part.
 
Rewatching, I still find the fight more lightshow than CQC choreography, but there was good staging of most of the interesting power interactions. Royal Guard into Faust Hat counter was probably the most smooth, though Clive's Not Judgement Cut into (somehow) outdoing the Time Manipulation was as well.

I think the end of the space clash was just confusing, though; Clive wins the clash and is floating in place with Dante nowhere to be seen (presumably punched down to earth if not drowned out in the SFX), but Clive also falls and somehow hits the ground at the same time, even though he won the clash and was further away from the earth besides. And him getting the SSS prompt was also confusing, made me unsure if actually it was Dante who won the clash.

Excellent SFX elsewhere, though, somehow rivals the multi-million budgets of the games in question. Aside from that one clash, every attack and its effects were readable and distinct, and there were a lot of them to animate. Although I find intricate CQC much more timeless than fireworks. Come to think of it, with how many "bones" animated models have to deal with now -- dubious scripting aside, Kratos vs Asura looked so bad in large part because Kratos's model was so detailed as to be a nightmare to work with -- I'm not sure how feasible it is to do intricate CQC without deliberately cartoony models. It probably won't stick with me as strongly as, say, TJ Combo vs Balrog's tangible physical throwdown, but it's nice that Torrian is also able to stage a fireworks show so cleanly for the most part.
Its not as intricate as Dante vs Bayo but it more than makes up for that with scale, set pieces, and effects.

It ramps up wonderfully to a boring ahh death
 
I will say I will be petty and won't be playing FF16 because of this. I still have the urge to be a catty ***** about this so I'll channel it elsewhere
 
I think you're all in for a real... treat? when Sean comes back, he's already graced the Zelda thread with such incredible arguments about how he thinks teenagers are 2 feet tall so it's gonna be something special when he comes in to explain what he thinks of Ash vs Yugi
 
I think you're all in for a real... treat? when Sean comes back, he's already graced the Zelda thread with such incredible arguments about how he thinks teenagers are 2 feet tall so it's gonna be something special when he comes in to explain what he thinks of Ash vs Yugi
This has the potential to be the best waiting period
 
Ok, here are my general thoughts about the episode.

Starting from the beginning and leaving the debate stuff for later, I do think they did a good job with the character analysis of both Clive and Dante—their general characterization and backstories were well handled. And as predicted, they didn’t just dismiss Devil May Cry’s lore/cosmology, as some people strangely believed they would. Like, seriously, why did anyone think that was going to happen? Ever since Dragonborn vs Chosen Undead they’ve been including lore, and Kratos vs Asura made it more than clear that it’s now standard.

As for the actual animated fight, I think it was up to the standards we now expect from modern Death Battle, aka its was really good. It’s definitely not on the level of Bowser vs Eggman, but I do think they delivered what most of us wanted. The only hiccup was Dante’s death—it felt a little weak—but aside from that, they did a good job showcasing both characters’ abilities, fighting styles, weaponry, and transformations.

And then we get to the most controversial part of the episode: the result. For the physical stats, I think it was fine to have at least both Base Clive and Base Dante scaling above begins who can destroy and affect multiple universal size realms. I’m not sure why they kept them at just FTL+ when they mention their cosmic ones in one of the blackboxes, which would put them at Quadrillions of Times FTL.

But i guess, in this case, it wasn’t necessary and wouldn’t have altered the result in their opinion. Unlike Asura VS Kratos—where Asura had a far blatant Massively FTL+ feat via dodging Chakravartin's laser, so they had to bring in cosmic scaling for Kratos in the front to make clear that they were evenly in Speed (only to butcher it when they used Helios).

Where things start to get messy is with Dante’s Powers and Super Forms's Multipliers. As others have already mentioned, they underestimated or outright ignored the full extent of Devil Trigger’s Multipliers, as if fully included then Dante at peak should theoretically be stronger/faster than Clive at his peak, as well other stuff like his Regeneration be stamina-based or all the Haxes he as a demon should have, which would have likely made Dante the winner.

Overall i think its also another 8/10, at least at first view.
 
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honestly, the fun thing about this match is that it’s really debatable. I could see either winning, but I’m on Yugi side more often than not.
 
As disappointing as the Dante downplay was -- again, it would have been better if they said "Dante is as haxxed as people say, but Clive has XYZ hax" since I'm pretty sure even 16 isn't too far behind the most haxxed other FFs and it'd be better to argue they're on par with DMC instead of downplaying the latter -- at least the victor was one who isn't likely to be animated elsewhere due to lacking sprites and other easy-to-use assets.

Incidentally, GhostArtorias is working on one with Vergil that should be pretty fun, though as much as I like the storm that is approaching, he's gotten plenty of good animations and I'd like to see more with Nero and a full-arsenal Dante.

Oh, if @Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff (I know pings don't work) is still in this thread, here's a cool Blade W animation I meant to share earlier as consolation for his DB loss. Lou's vids and matchups themselves are weird and jank but he's got a flow and choreography I like. Slice-clash win PLUS walking away from an explosion at the end!

 
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