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DEATH BATTLE! Discussion Thread (All-time Death Battle Spoilers Alert)

Alexander said:
hey Weekly, fun fact, there is already a memetic mutation in TV tropes Death Battle page about your reddit account, where you are the laughingstock because you are the only PERSON in the entire subreddit who thinks Ruby has a chance...
not even compared to Simon vs Kyle were alot of fans were hoping (and rewarded)for Simon to win, not even Miles vs Deku, where alot of people were just coping.
BUT YOU, ONLY YOU AND ONLY YOU, ARE THE ONE FIGHTING TO SEE RUBY LOSE.
you will see the fight, you will see the stat difference, you will see the ability difference, and yet, you will see her loose.
and what would you have left?
Click to expand...
Cool! I'm a part of history lol
 
The_Axiom_of_Virgo said:
You're being quite reasonable, DS games (especially Pokémon ones) have become insanely expensive and everytime I go shopping, I get a pricy reminder that I was a foolish kid for selling, loosing and/or giving away my games.

E.g: I had an itch for PMD, so I wanted to play Explorers of Sky and it set me back $86.99 (roughly £65). Yes I know I can emulate but I wanted to own the physical copy but yikes!
What's worse is the price was actually quite reasonable, even 2nd hand copies can sell for over 100 bucks and don't get me started on brand new.
Click to expand...
So you're interested? BTW I'm setting it at that price, because it's the price one of my old phones would have gone for (voucher specifically), but a screen issue meant they wouldn't take it (I'm doing some digging into how to get it fixed). CeX would have taken IVa for about 3x that price if it were an EUR/UK (PAL) copy of the game, but it's a US one so oops.
 
Osemere said:
Gel3IyTXcAAbF19.jpg

Based
Click to expand...

They hated Jesus for he spoke the truth

I already look the part so why not play it as well?
 
The_Axiom_of_Virgo said:
You're being quite reasonable, DS games (especially Pokémon ones) have become insanely expensive and everytime I go shopping, I get a pricy reminder that I was a foolish kid for selling, loosing and/or giving away my games.

E.g: I had an itch for PMD, so I wanted to play Explorers of Sky and it set me back $86.99 (roughly £65). Yes I know I can emulate but I wanted to own the physical copy but yikes!
What's worse is the price was actually quite reasonable, even 2nd hand copies can sell for over 100 bucks and don't get me started on brand new.

So gore, blood, cannibalism, etc?

Tbf Doom was already a great and iconic franchise with a legacy (even got a movie) before the decline, RWBY never reached iconic status and it (arguably) peaked too early.
Click to expand...
Ultimate Universe has gore, blood and cannibalism?
 
Alexander said:
hey Weekly, fun fact, there is already a memetic mutation in TV tropes Death Battle page about your reddit account, where you are the laughingstock because you are the only PERSON in the entire subreddit who thinks Ruby has a chance...
not even compared to Simon vs Kyle were alot of fans were hoping (and rewarded)for Simon to win, not even Miles vs Deku, where alot of people were just coping.
BUT YOU, ONLY YOU AND ONLY YOU, ARE THE ONE FIGHTING TO SEE RUBY LOSE.
you will see the fight, you will see the stat difference, you will see the ability difference, and yet, you will see her loose.
and what would you have left?
Click to expand...
Got a link to the mention?
 
Alexander said:
Snip
Click to expand...
  • That One RWBY Fan ExplanationOn the Death Battle subreddit, it was very common after the fight was announced for any thread referencing Ruby vs Maka to have a user come in who would confidently declare that Maka was toast and that Ruby far out-statted her... only for fans of both properties to call bull repeatedly due to the user using out of context statements from the Soul Eater manga to downplay Maka, and giving Ruby ludicrously high scaling. Their posting habits became enough of a joke that when the matchup was confirmed, threads about Ruby or Maka would sometimes have people posting the user's profile pic and declaring "Stand ready for his arrival, worm" as a reference to the Conquest copypasta.
Click to expand...
Holy shit, you weren't kidding
 
StekFence said:
Could you explain where you have both characters and why?
Click to expand...
Sure thing!

I currently have Ruby at Small City level and FTL and Maka at Town level and Relativistic

docs.google.com

Dusting off the Remnants

Dusting off the Remnants - A RWBY Calc Compilation Attack Potency/Durability Weiss does a lot with ice: Destroys it - 1.3 kg, 2 kg and 11 kg of TNT (Wall to Small Building level) Make a shielding dome - 1.1 tons of TNT (Building level) Creates it - 1.15 tons of TNT (Building level) Freezes a Nev...
docs.google.com docs.google.com

Here is a comprehensive, albeit incomplete, list of feats for RWBY. The main ones Ruby scales to are as follows:

Power and Durability:

Speed-wise, Ruby currently scales to:

Maka's best feat, on the other hand is destroying Gopher's cannon which is Town level. The high tier stuff has a ton of issues that people tend to leave out because with context they wouldnt apply to Maka normally. Summed up, the 'high-tier' scaling comes from two instances, neither of which are things she can do on her own. The first comes from her fight against Crona, where she was wielding and amplified by Spirit, Lord Death's Death Scythe, instead of Soul, and the second comes from the fight with Asura where she used Chain Resonance to amp herself by drawing the power of both BlackStar and Kid (who had just undergone ascension into the next Reaper). The Mountain level Black Blood Dome feat Crona has wouldnt apply to Maka for the same reason as that version of Crona is the one that Maka needed Spirit to be able to fight.

For a more extensive breakdown:

Maka's scaling - The most prevalent reasoning people have used to argue Maka beating Ruby is that she has Country/Continent level scaling/scales to Fire Force which is Multiversal. This is only partially true. She DOES scale to those things, but only with non-standard equipment and outside help.

  • The first part of her scaling comes from her fight with Crona right before the final battle of the series. There is frankly a lot wrong with scaling her to Crona directly, primarily due to the fact that she did no damage to Crona at any point in the fight. She was attacking Crona but Crona was visibly unharmed and unfazed by it the entire time, even when Maka is actively putting a crater in the ground from how hard she is hitting Crona and Soul is questioning if Maka is actually trying to kill Crona. 3 pages later, Crona sneak attacks Maka and she has to be saved by BlackStar, after which Maka outright confirms that if she were fighting Crona alone she wouldnt have been able to avoid or survive Crona stabbing her once because of how weak she is. BlackStar 3 pages after that says that Crona is stronger than him to the point that they can push him back with sheer brute force, and then 6 pages later Maka and BlackStar have a short conversation about how BlackStar constantly has to save Maka because she is so much weaker than him.Even the guidebook's description of the fight says that Maka was doing no damage to Crona. Crona starts attacking them wildly, and Maka is forced to dodge or redirect everything that comes at her as any one attack from Crona would kill her. Crona then uses their madness wavelength to disrupt Maka and BlackStar's own wavelengths, preventing them from using their weapons, and Spirit has Maka wield him in place of Soul, which, due to them sharing a unique wavelength as a result of their bond as father and daughter, amplifies her to the point of being able to casually shred every attack that Crona threw at her, allowing her to easily beat them.
  • The second part of her scaling comes from the final battle with Kishin Asura. The problem with this is Maka does not scale to Asura in any capacity on her own. In the final battle against Asura, Asura was able to directly sense how strong Maka, Kid, and BlackStar were and he only deemed the latter two to be worth fighting. He then casually backhanded Maka, nearly killing her in the process, and told her to not bother trying to fight him, with both Maka's father and the Little Ogre inside Soul's realm directly stating that he could have easily killed her with that slap if he wanted to and that Asura is on a completely different level than Maka. It takes Maka several minutes to be able to even move again, after which she immediately goes for Chain Resonance with Kid and BlackStar. A few pages later, Kid fully ascends to become the next Reaper and becomes directly equal to Asura in power, and Maka, who can see how powerful his soul is, comments that he is insanely powerful compared to her. And then in that same chapter, not only does Asura punch a hole clean through Maka's chest (With Maka stating that she only survived because of the regeneration that Black Blood grants her), but she directly states that she cant harm or even hit Asura herself and needs to use of the Madness of Black Blood to match Asura's wavelength and bypass his physical durability. And when she succeeds this and enters Asura's body, she briefly sees the outside world how Asura sees it, specifically seeing everyone's souls, with Kid and BlackStar being two giant lights with her soul being a small blip in comparison. For Maka to be given scaling to Asura, it would require her to be able to utilize Chain Resonance, and for her to achieve Chain Resonance and be amplified by it, both Ascended Kid and Awakened BlackStar would have to be physically present on the battlefield and actively fighting against the same opponent that Maka is fighting, ie. Ruby.
  • Basically, Maka is a weird anti-shonen protagonist, as she is consistently shown and stated to be vastly weaker than the rest of the primary protagonists.Throughout the story its a major part of Maka's character that she is not strong, that she is overly reliant on Soul as a source of power, and that she feels that she is actively holding Soul back by being a weak Meister. BlackStar while holding back has beaten her with ease on two different occasions, and even before he became the next Reaper a single one of Kid's guns in human form was stated to be more powerful than Maka at her strongest. Maka isnt even part of the three strongest students at DWMA, that spot is held by Kilik Rung.
  • Theres also stuff like the in-verse power levels, specifically the Star Ranking System. In Soul Eater, Death Scythes are ranked on a scale of 1-Star to 3-Star, with 3-Stars being the strongest. Soul spent the majority of the series as a low-ranking 2-Star, only starting to grow in power roughly 3/4ths of the way through the story when he consumed the witch Arachne's soul and attaining the rank of Death Scythe (Specifically because he realized he had to actively work to become more powerful because Death Scythe is basically just a title, not a powerup, something he was outright mocked for believing). And even then him and Maka are still only 2-Star, well below the power of 3-Star weapons like Spirit Albarn, Marie Mjolnir, Excalibur, and Justin Law. They even demonstrate the gap between the power of a 2-Star and 3-Star weapon in the final arc, where Maka was unable to even scratch Crona while she was wielding Soul, but casually cut their attacks apart while she was wielding Spirit, as well as Soul being unable to cut Asura, while Marie drew blood and gave him a minor concussion from hitting Asura in the face after being thrown by Stein, a 3-Star Meister. In fact, the first time Maka met Stein, she used her Soul Perception to view his soul to try to see how strong he was, and he was so incomprehensibly more powerful than her that she immediately had a panic attack.

Maka's hax - The second major reason people argue that Maka wins is due to her hax, primarily her ability to manipulate soulsto potentially turn off Ruby's Aura and Semblance. Because of the aformentioned scaling issues for Maka, there are actually issues with this as well.

  • Soul Adagio - The primary hax brought up as a wincon for Maka, Soul Adagio allows Maka to turn off the opponent's soul, nullifying their abilities and putting them in a lethargic state where they can no longer fight. This would be a powerful tool normally, there's just one problem; It explicitly does not work against opponents that are more powerful than Maka. This is blatantly shown in the fight against Giriko, where Maka tries to use the technique and instead of turning Giriko's soul off, the technique backlashes onto Maka and Soul, with Maka saying that it wouldnt work on Giriko because of how much stronger they are than her.
  • Soul Hack - The other major hax that is brought up as a wincon for Maka, Soul Hack allows Soul to project a wavelength that can take control of objects and weapons projected and controlled by an opponent's soul...thats it. People argue that this would allow Maka to take control of Ruby's soul directly somehow, but the power just doesnt do that at all. At best you could argue that it would let Soul manipulate Ruby's Dust ammo in some capacity, but even then she doesnt outright control them herself.
Maka's weaknsses/disadvantages - Something that is almost never brought up in this is the fact that Maka has numerous crippling weaknesses, both for herself as a fighter and for her powers.
  • Ruby can very, very easily depower Maka by disarming her with her Semblance. If Maka and Soul's Resonance is disrupted by another soul-based ability, Maka reverts to her normal self in terms of power, where se caps at roughly Building level in power and durability with no offensive abilities. Ruby has used her Semblance to do exactly this to multiple people in her own verse, and with her semblance both being soul-based and breaking matter down on a molecular level would definitely sever Maka and Soul's Resonance.
  • Maka's Black Blood has a specific weakness to an in-universe technique called Soul Menace, where the user channels their soul into their physical strikes to enhance their attacks. This is near identical to Ruby's Aura coating her weapon and empowering her physical attacks, and thus would allow her to bypass the Black Blood in the same way Soul Menace does.
  • Maka's Hunt techniques would be effectively useless against Ruby. Hunts are techniques tailored solely to work on beings like Witches, Demons, Immortals, and Monsters as a form of durability negation through Maka's Anti-Demon Wavelength, with the drawback that they dont do anything against enemies that dont fit those criteria other than acting as larger versions of her normal attacks. Kisin Hunt in particular wouldnt even be useable as it requires Maka to be working alongside Crona to utilize, and it explicitly does not affect beings with pure hearts, like Ruby.
Summed up:

Without outside help and amps Maka is around Town level and Relativistic while Ruby is Small City level and FTL. The high tier stuff for Maka has a ton of issues that people tend to leave out because with context they wouldnt apply to Maka normally. Summed up, the 'high-tier' scaling comes from two instances, neither of which are things she can do on her own. The first comes from her fight against Crona, where she was wielding and amplified by Spirit, Lord Death's Death Scythe, instead of Soul, and the second comes from the fight with Asura where she used Chain Resonance to amp herself by drawing the power of both BlackStar and Kid (who had just undergone ascension into the next Reaper). The Mountain level Black Blood Dome feat Crona has wouldnt apply to Maka for the same reason as that version of Crona is the one that Maka needed Spirit to be able to fight. At best you can argue Maka can match Ruby in power with the Black Blood Dress but Ruby would still be faster.

Ruby is a significantly more skilled and experienced fighter, having been professionally trained in combat since she was a child (10-12 years of experience) and currently being one of the most skilled fighters in her verse, while Maka has roughly 1 to at most 2 years of combat training and by the end of her story is still acknowledged as being a relatively unskilled fighter, with her only just starting to train past her heavy reliance on Soul to perform combat maneuvers due to his ability to manipulate himself while in scythe form.

The majority of Maka's hax wouldnt work on Ruby due to her either being stronger than Maka (Soul Adagio), pure of heart (Soul Adagio), or her not being a Monstrous Being (Hunt Techniques). Her Hunts in particular are also canonically very easy to avoid as they are entirely linear in their trajectory, something that has been pointed out and used to avoid them multiple times in Soul Eater. Also, Maka cant even use Kishin Hunter without her team and Crona helping her.

Ruby can counter a lot of Maka's arsenal, particularly being able to outright depower Maka by disarming her, severing her Resonance with Soul, which removes her ability to utilize her Black Blood as well as all of her Resonance techniques. She can do this very easily with her Semblance which breaks down matter on an atomic level and reduces it to a cloud of scattered particles she can move around. She can also bypass the defenses of the Black Blood with her Aura-enhanced strikes in the same way that the Soul Menace technique does in Soul Eater.

Ruby can also sustain herself for a lot longer than Maka can, having the stamina to fight for days on end before needing rest and having multiple pieces of equipment that heal herself and restore her Aura at will.

The only major advantages Maka has over Ruby are regeneration and Madness. The former would be able to help her against some major injuries but wouldnt heal her from decapitation or bisection, the two main ways Ruby kills her opponents. The latter would work on Ruby but is a double-edged sword that can also backfire onto Maka as well and potentially turn Soul against her, and theres an argument to be made that Ruby would be able to resist it due to her resistances demonstrated against the Apathy and Nightmare.

Theres also an argument that can be made about the Silver Eyes harming Maka due to her having Madness of Black Blood embedded in her body, which would potentially harm her for the same reason as Cinder due to an arguable similarity between Grimm and Madness, both being abstract manifestations of the negative emotions of humanity, but this argument is a stretch and is unlikely to be used.

So yeah, Ruby should take this high difficulty.
 
Stefano4444 said:
Yeah at this point the only way to fully reinvigorate the series would be to restart it from the beginning, but to be successful, certain things need to happen:
  • The writing in general must be far better than in the original series, and having a more detailed story-plan from beginning to end would definitely help. I’m not ask for a literary masterpiece, but for most franchises to be successful they need to keep the audience invested in the setting, plot, and characters. That requires competent writers who know what they’re doing.
  • The series would likely need to make alterations and adjustments compare to the original story in order to improve or/and fix what didn’t work or only partially worked (such as James’s downfall or even Yang and Blake's romance). However, it must also preserve the core and charm of the series—otherwise we might as well create an entirely new IP. So the spirit, general tone, themes, and focus—at least based on the first volumes—should remain (so no turning the series into Warhammer 40k or Teen Titans Go!).
  • Better action and choreography—and I’m not talking about just feats. After Volume 3, we all saw a decline in quality when it came to the fight scenes; they became more boring, less spectacular, and completely botched the power escalation. Instead of feeling like the characters were growing stronger, it seemed like they were getting weaker. Considering that 3D action was one of the main selling points of RWBY (with the trailers all focus on the main characters fighting), you can imagine how important it is for the reboot to bring back that same level of explosive, over-the-top spectacle.

Beyond those two, there are a few more things I’d personally hope for:
  • Stronger worldbuilding, and more of it—preferably within the main series itself rather than relying too heavily on spin-offs. As long as the information remains relevant to the plot/characters/world, it belongs in the narrative. This could include details about the Grimm, Dust, Aura, Semblances, Faunus, history, lore, technology, culture, factions, geography, and more. Supplemental material can expand on less central details, but the foundations should exist in the main story.
  • More established powerscaling. Since the series functions somewhat like a typical shonen battle series, having a benchmarks between characters would help in the long run. It would show how far Team RWBY needs to grow before they can realistically stand against someone like Salem. A ranking system—whether for Huntsmen and/or for Grimm—could serve this purpose well.
  • An extended Beacon arc. I believe the Fall of Beacon (assuming it must still happen like in the original series) should take place much later. The story would benefit from having more “Volume 1–Volume 2–style” material before the major upheaval. Similar to how One Piece used numerous arcs to build up to Marineford, additional volumes of Beacon-focused storytelling could make the eventual fall even more impactful and memorable.
Click to expand...
I mean, if the solution is "fix and improve absolutely everything, and get rid of everything that was wrong" then any work would actually become much better, dude.
 
TartaChocholate said:
I mean, if the solution is "fix and improve absolutely everything, and get rid of everything that was wrong" then any work would actually become much better, dude.
Click to expand...
Do the Attack on Titan method, have the original work be the rough draft and then remake the series with the same story just with revisions as the finalized project
 
Alright I'm bored, gonna type up matchups for WoW characters!

Arthas Menethil​

Arthas vs Archaon: ...Yeah uh, Age of Sigmar. Archaon can just do this even if he didn't skillfuck and have advantages in every stat as far back as WHF. But Arthas and Archaon are kinda sorta mirrors of eachother thematically. I mean, read Archaon's novel, it's just different enough from Arthas to not call him a rip-off and nothing more lol.

Arthas vs Darth Vader: Hey want to see Vader lose again if we don't use obscure Lightsaber temps? Because Arthas literally just has better force choke and turning people into ice cubes as first moves, and resists temperatures above Lightsabers, Vader isn't really rated to take him on. Not to mention Arthas' AP advantage.

Arthas vs Nightmare (SC): So... Arthas hard-core resists Soul Manipulation. And is already corrupted. Doesn't matter which nightmare we're talking about, he outstats, out resists, and outhaxes, easy game.

Illidan Stormrage​

Illidan vs Rando GI person(Xiao, I think?): Do I even need to say it? Illidan explicitly popped a planet on-screen, I'm not sure what's 'thematic' about the match-up anyways.

Illidan vs Darth Maul: Same verse, same as the first, now let the Betrayer be unleashed so he a put the Zabrakan in a hurst.

Illidan vs Garou: Shitstomp and not in Garou's favor. The guy can't hit souls, but coming back from the dead for Illidan takes literal decades, and Garou has some of the most explicit tier 4 feats known to man.

Deathwing​

Deathwing vs Smaug: One dragon rearranged a planet and bench presses it 24/7, one dragon threatened a medieval city with destruction and pushed some dwarves out of their hole. Which one do you THINK wins?

Deathwing vs Alduin: Uh... tier 5 vs explicit tier 2. I don't think this favors the mad aspect. Can't really kill Deathwing, but at the same time spreading his quarks across the universe works pretty well.

Deathwing vs King Ghidorah: First of all, **** this matchup, it isn't thematic at all even if you composite Ghidorah, second of all, Composite Ghidorah stomps with no effort. If you want to feed Deathwing to someone, feed him to Alduin.
 
DaReaperMan said:
Alright I'm bored, gonna type up matchups for WoW characters!

Arthas Menethil​

Arthas vs Archaon: ...Yeah uh, Age of Sigmar. Archaon can just do this even if he didn't skillfuck and have advantages in every stat as far back as WHF. But Arthas and Archaon are kinda sorta mirrors of eachother thematically. I mean, read Archaon's novel, it's just different enough from Arthas to not call him a rip-off and nothing more lol.
Click to expand...
Monthly reminder that Arthas vs Archaon is my dream match up as a duel/army battle,
check out my version of it
 
Soul Edge/Inferno created Astral Chaos, full of planets like Jupiter and stars in them, Arthas aint outstating any of that at all
 
BlackDarkness679 said:
Soul Edge/Inferno created Astral Chaos, full of planets like Jupiter and stars in them, Arthas aint outstating any of that at all
Click to expand...
Ten times planet level from a planet already bigger than our earth by a fair amount plus the funny thing called "Frostmourne". What happens, pray tell, when a dura neg sword impacts a sword that the other guy needs to live?
 
Tipper17 said:
You got a link to that planet bust
Click to expand...
Illidan novel chapter 19. Alternatively visit Chronicles 3 page 148.

Long and short of it is Illidan opened a single portal and Draenor'd Nathreza with his own magic and no outside help. Seeing as Illidan regularly fights and tanks hits from people who can tank his magic, he scales.
 
Joycap said:
So you're interested? BTW I'm setting it at that price, because it's the price one of my old phones would have gone for (voucher specifically), but a screen issue meant they wouldn't take it (I'm doing some digging into how to get it fixed). CeX would have taken IVa for about 3x that price if it were an EUR/UK (PAL) copy of the game, but it's a US one so oops.
Click to expand...
Sorry if I miscommunicated, I'm not interested in buying (already got the game) just sharing some videogame shopping musings but it's crazy how different versions of the same game can vary wildly in price.
Jimmy.robinson.5099 said:
Ultimate Universe has gore, blood and cannibalism?
Click to expand...
Yeah
just look up Antman and Wasp Vs The Blob but if your squeamish I wouldn't advice it plus other mess up stuff happens in the ultimate universe
kinda wild the verse rebranded itself and gave us MM Spiderman, only for it to be deleted and Miles (plus family) getting incorporated into the main 616-verse.
 
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