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This is how Godzilla will beat The Hulk
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DEATH BATTLE! Discussion Thread (All-time Death Battle Spoilers Alert)
- Thread starter TMaakkonen
- Start date
This is how Godzilla will beat The Hulk
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Sorry this is the powerscaling community, you will only get slander posts and agenda pieces
Tonygameman
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Holy peak Mane 6 vs the Sailor Scouts addition. That was my original pitch in one of the ballot banters like a year ago. Love it, though it sucks that Sailor Moon has a load of other MUs that are probably gonna be considered first
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Didn't think I'd see a VS idea in the style of Room 215, but here we are.
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The Godzilla body we see is basically an avatar for its higher dimensional true form the existence of which is implied in the anime and fully confirmed in the official novelization made by the same author. Additionally the novel goes into more detail about abilities Ultima has that we couldn't quite see. When we say Ultima is tier 1 we simply use the name Ultima cause its easier that way, whilst we really imply the Omega Point it would reach or the true form behind it all.
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The novel.
EnderLord8
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For a moment I thought it was a Deku Hulk vs Godzilla and I thought it was something related to the Street-tier slayer Deku meme
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It's always the novel/comic/manga/lore/audio disc/twitter statements/reddit AMAs/back of a cereal box from 1982
ZeNoviceArtist
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Beat me to it by a minute
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Funnily enough that wasnt me, though I have been doing a lot of debating on there
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That wasnt why I got banned lmao
EnderLord8
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WTF I just saw the IT 1-A thread, what are the chances this weighs in on Hulkzilla's Death Battle?
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0, their research is done and places with less strict rules already have him at 1-A or High 1-A
ZeNoviceArtist
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Weekly is back!
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I give it a week tops lol
EnderLord8
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Oh this is new to me, I haven't seen anyone mention Godzilla in this tier before.
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Reddit has had him at High 1-A for months now, although honestly I find their reasons...unreasonable.
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I was just thinking the two year deadline had to be somewhere around the corner. Welcome back.
Not at all. Firstly, it's only happening now so it's too late. Secondly, Death Battle already put Simon far higher than we do, and Godzilla Singular Point novelization reads with similar verbiage about transcendence and such. I feel they will play fast and loose with how they treat Ultima, though I'm expecting Hulk to still be substantially stronger.
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I find this hard to believe.
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i mean they pretty much gave Simon the 1-A.
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Ive more been debunking Soul Eater scaling than anything directly RWBY related
I plan on reworking the Soul Eater profiles soon because my god theyre awful
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Yes, that is in fact what you were doing for a majority of your tenure on the DB Subreddit.
All I'll say is good luck, almost everyone has universally disagreed with your arguments.
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And like I said on the subreddit, those people have very clearly not read Soul Eater
But thank you! I'll be sure to ping you when I make the CRT
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- Thread starter
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Weekly returns just in time to see Ruby sacrificed for Maka lol
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Oh no, Ruby wins that fight. Theres a LOT wrong with how people scale Maka.
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Just gonna copy paste this here for a fraction of what I have planned:
Alrighty, so after doing a ton of research on this fight, particularly in regards to Soul Eater, theres a LOT of issues with the arguments for Maka, which ive been asked to post here:
1. Maka's scaling - The most prevalent reasoning people have used to argue Maka beating Ruby is that she has Country/Continent level scaling/scales to Fire Force which is Multiversal. This is only partially true. She DOES scale to those things, but only with non-standard equipment and outside help.
- The first part of her scaling comes from her fight with Crona right before the final battle of the series. There is frankly a lot wrong with scaling her to Crona directly, primarily due to the fact that she did no damage to Crona at any point in the fight. She was attacking Crona but Crona was visibly unharmed and unfazed by it the entire time, even when Maka is actively putting a crater in the ground from how hard she is hitting Crona and Soul is questioning if Maka is actually trying to kill Crona. 3 pages later, Crona sneak attacks Maka and she has to be saved by BlackStar, after which Maka outright confirms that if she were fighting Crona alone she wouldnt have been able to avoid or survive Crona stabbing her once because of how weak she is. BlackStar 3 pages after that says that Crona is stronger than him to the point that they can push him back with sheer brute force, and then 6 pages later Maka and BlackStar have a short conversation about how BlackStar constantly has to save Maka because she is so much weaker than him.Even the guidebook's description of the fight says that Maka was doing no damage to Crona. Crona starts attacking them wildly, and Maka is forced to dodge or redirect everything that comes at her as any one attack from Crona would kill her. Crona then uses their madness wavelength to disrupt Maka and BlackStar's own wavelengths, preventing them from using their weapons, and Spirit has Maka wield him in place of Soul, which, due to them sharing a unique wavelength as a result of their bond as father and daughter, amplifies her to the point of being able to casually shred every attack that Crona threw at her, allowing her to easily beat them.
- Chapter 105, the first few pages are Maka attacking Crona and Crona allowing her to use her like a punching bag, and despite Maka pummeling Crona with all of her strength to the point that she is destroying the ground beneath Crona and Soul is questioning if she's actually trying to kill Crona, Crona is visibly physically unharmed. Crona then starts to actively attack Maka and Maka admits that if she were fighting alone, Crona would have killed her because of how weak she is. BlackStar starts to fight Crona, and admits that Crona is even stronger than he is. Maka tries to get a hit in but it does nothing, and Crona sends her flying. Crona then follows up with a Bloody Lance, which BlackStar has to redirect so it doesnt kill Maka. Maka admits that BlackStar saved her, and then admits that she's glad he's always around to save her in fights, which BlackStar says just shows how weak she is. Crona then rips out one of the moon's teeth and tries to crush Maka and BlackStar with it, but BlackStar catches it, a feat of power which scares Maka. Crona then attacks Maka and BlackStar with Thorn Storm, which infects them with her madness and negates their soul wavelengths, preventing them from using soul resonance. Crona then disarms Maka and BlackStar, forcing them to fight barehanded, which BlackStar states Maka isnt good at.
- Chapter 106, the first few pages are just BlackStar fighting Crona until Spirit shows up and has Maka wield him in place of Soul. Maka immediately notes the increased power she gets from wielding him and starts tearing through Crona's defenses and harming her with her attacks before hitting her with a Witch Hunt and Demon Hunt which does actual damage to Crona. Spirit explains that the wavelength bond between a parent and child is so strong that it is able to overpower Crona's wavelength nullification.
- The second part of her scaling comes from the final battle with Kishin Asura. The problem with this is Maka does not scale to Asura in any capacity on her own. In the final battle against Asura, Asura was able to directly sense how strong Maka, Kid, and BlackStar were and he only deemed the latter two to be worth fighting. He then casually backhanded Maka, nearly killing her in the process, and told her to not bother trying to fight him, with both Maka's father and the Little Ogre inside Soul's realm directly stating that he could have easily killed her with that slap if he wanted to and that Asura is on a completely different level than Maka. It takes Maka several minutes to be able to even move again, after which she immediately goes for Chain Resonance with Kid and BlackStar. A few pages later, Kid fully ascends to become the next Reaper and becomes directly equal to Asura in power, and Maka, who can see how powerful his soul is, comments that he is insanely powerful compared to her. And then in that same chapter, not only does Asura punch a hole clean through Maka's chest (With Maka stating that she only survived because of the regeneration that Black Blood grants her), but she directly states that she cant harm or even hit Asura herself and needs to use of the Madness of Black Blood to match Asura's wavelength and bypass his physical durability. And when she succeeds this and enters Asura's body, she briefly sees the outside world how Asura sees it, specifically seeing everyone's souls, with Kid and BlackStar being two giant lights with her soul being a small blip in comparison. For Maka to be given scaling to Asura, it would require her to be able to utilize Chain Resonance, and for her to achieve Chain Resonance and be amplified by it, both Ascended Kid and Awakened BlackStar would have to be physically present on the battlefield and actively fighting against the same opponent that Maka is fighting, ie. Ruby.
- Basically, Maka is a weird anti-shonen protagonist, as she is consistently shown and stated to be vastly weaker than the rest of the primary protagonists.Throughout the story its a major part of Maka's character that she is not strong, that she is overly reliant on Soul as a source of power, and that she feels that she is actively holding Soul back by being a weak Meister. BlackStar while holding back has beaten her with ease on two different occasions, and even before he became the next Reaper a single one of Kid's guns in human form was stated to be more powerful than Maka at her strongest. Maka isnt even part of the three strongest students at DWMA, that spot is held by Kilik Rung.
- Theres also stuff like the in-verse power levels, specifically the Star Ranking System. In Soul Eater, Death Scythes are ranked on a scale of 1-Star to 3-Star, with 3-Stars being the strongest. Soul spent the majority of the series as a low-ranking 2-Star, only starting to grow in power roughly 3/4ths of the way through the story when he consumed the witch Arachne's soul and attaining the rank of Death Scythe (Specifically because he realized he had to actively work to become more powerful because Death Scythe is basically just a title, not a powerup, something he was outright mocked for believing). And even then him and Maka are still only 2-Star, well below the power of 3-Star weapons like Spirit Albarn, Marie Mjolnir, Excalibur, and Justin Law. They even demonstrate the gap between the power of a 2-Star and 3-Star weapon in the final arc, where Maka was unable to even scratch Crona while she was wielding Soul, but casually cut their attacks apart while she was wielding Spirit, as well as Soul being unable to cut Asura, while Marie drew blood and gave him a minor concussion from hitting Asura in the face after being thrown by Stein, a 3-Star Meister. In fact, the first time Maka met Stein, she used her Soul Perception to view his soul to try to see how strong he was, and he was so incomprehensibly more powerful than her that she immediately had a panic attack.
- Soul Adagio - The primary hax brought up as a wincon for Maka, Soul Adagio allows Maka to turn off the opponent's soul, nullifying their abilities and putting them in a lethargic state where they can no longer fight. This would be a powerful tool normally, there's just one problem; It explicitly does not work against opponents that are more powerful than Maka. This is blatantly shown in the fight against Giriko, where Maka tries to use the technique and instead of turning Giriko's soul off, the technique backlashes onto Maka and Soul, with Maka saying that it wouldnt work on Giriko because of how much stronger they are than her.
- Soul Hack - The other major hax that is brought up as a wincon for Maka, Soul Hack allows Soul to project a wavelength that can take control of objects and weapons projected and controlled by an opponent's soul...thats it. People argue that this would allow Maka to take control of Ruby's soul directly somehow, but the power just doesnt do that at all. At best you could argue that it would let Soul manipulate Ruby's Dust ammo in some capacity, but even then she doesnt outright control them herself.
- Ruby can very, very easily depower Maka by disarming her with her Semblance. If Maka and Soul's Resonance is disrupted by another soul-based ability, Maka reverts to her normal self in terms of power, where se caps at roughly Building level in power and durability with no offensive abilities. Ruby has used her Semblance to do exactly this to multiple people in her own verse, and with her semblance both being soul-based and breaking matter down on a molecular level would definitely sever Maka and Soul's Resonance.
- Maka's Black Blood has a specific weakness to an in-universe technique called Soul Menace, where the user channels their soul into their physical strikes to enhance their attacks. This is near identical to Ruby's Aura coating her weapon and empowering her physical attacks, and thus would allow her to bypass the Black Blood in the same way Soul Menace does.
- Maka's Hunt techniques would be effectively useless against Ruby. Hunts are techniques tailored solely to work on beings like Witches, Demons, Immortals, and Monsters as a form of durability negation through Maka's Anti-Demon Wavelength, with the drawback that they dont do anything against enemies that dont fit those criteria other than acting as larger versions of her normal attacks. Kisin Hunt in particular wouldnt even be useable as it requires Maka to be working alongside Crona to utilize, and it explicitly does not affect beings with pure hearts, like Ruby.
TL;DR:
- The Country/Continent/Fire Force scaling doesnt apply to Maka normally, she needed amps from non-standard equipment (Lord Death's Death Scythe in place of Soul to fight Crona) and outside help (Chain Resonance from Death-ascended Kid and full-potential BlackStar to fight Asura) to reach that level, and even with that she still needed to use the Black Blood Madness Wavelength to negate Asura's durability because she couldnt hurt him normally.
- Without that scaling, Maka's best scaling is Town level and Relativistic while Ruby sits at Small City and FTL.
- Because of this, Maka's soul hax more than likely would not work on Ruby.
- Maka has several crippling weaknesses that Ruby can exploit just by fighting the way she normally does.
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Ive done my research lol.
This is roughly a third of what I have at the moment, coupled with an overhaul to RWBY to reupgrade them to Low 7-B
This is roughly a third of what I have at the moment, coupled with an overhaul to RWBY to reupgrade them to Low 7-B
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RWBY, at FTL?
Spite or genuine scaling, call it. You really, really, haven't changed one bit, I just hope you can stop caring so much about the validation and opinions of people in regards to a character strength.
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Yes? Theyve been FTL for like three years at this point and have only gotten more support of being that fast with the guidebook that came out a while back. From what I can tell someone even tried to make a downgrade for their FTL speed some time ago and it got rejected because of how blatant it is.
Genuine scaling. TFW I post entire chapters with page by page breakdowns and still get accused of spite lmao
Some things really never change
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TBF, it's the internet, it's fueled by spite, even more so for powerscaling forums
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- Thread starter
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2 hours and already debating, damn.
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Its like I never left ^_^
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