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It's honestly weird considering DB doesn't give a shit about 1-A, and I doubt DB will make either of them 1-A anyway.
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DEATH BATTLE! Discussion Thread (All-time Death Battle Spoilers Alert)
- Thread starter TMaakkonen
- Start date
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To be fair, we had no idea what would be considered for Megatron. We know he'd be some form of composite but we had no idea to what extent. So everyone was kind of just making wild guesses before the episode dropped.
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Iirc didn't they make Raven Outerversal or smth or am i misremembering?
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Not really? They simply used that vague "big cosmology" argument they usually doe for the big two.
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I see. However, i can also see them using "Hyperversal" or "beyond dimensional tiering" for the first time, at least for the Life Equation this match in case Kyle wins.
"Yes, Simon could keep growing indefinitely through all spatial dimensions, but Kyle was beyond EVEN that!"
"Yes, Simon could keep growing indefinitely through all spatial dimensions, but Kyle was beyond EVEN that!"
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There was a lot wrong with that episode but no they didn't make Raven outer. Scaling her to Spectre and Trigon to Mxy was definitely strange though.
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Not to mention, who cares if their "sound dimension" is something they see as real? Not that it's a good argument anyways, but being aware that they're in some disc within a dimension of sounds only further substantiates that they actually DO know they're still fictional themselves.
If anything, I'd see the feat as gaining a 3-D (or 4-D if you wanna push it) form more than becoming "real". That's if the guy can be believed anyways. It was only a goal he never got to achieve.
This is without mentioning that the evidence for "affecting" the CD comes from statements like "my sounds will reach the furthest corners of this disc space!" which doesn't actually say it's shaking the disc and an attack that evidently DIDN'T destroy the space and was coming fron the guy that did the attack which could entirely just be him being full of himself??? Unless I'm just completely illiterate these arguments don't really sound great. Hyperbole and flowery language can easily be applied here.
And say it is evidence for Outer, evidently, it doesn't immediately make someone Outer because they never did manage to break free of the disc after all that. The character that supposedly grants outer and wanted to get out of that dimension launched an attack he thought should've destroyed the sound dimension and it didn't even work. And affecting or destroying the sound dimension at all doesn't immediately have to coincide with affecting the disc itself as well.
Anyways, 1-A Mario because many games actively refer to the Player and have them help Mario out, with the Mario cast in many commercials and even Mario Maker being shown to exist beyond their fictitious game world and can affect it, even playing as themselves and creating the levels. The Void was also gonna consume all dimensions, which should include the real world of the Player that's explicitly mentioned by Bestovius.
If anything, I'd see the feat as gaining a 3-D (or 4-D if you wanna push it) form more than becoming "real". That's if the guy can be believed anyways. It was only a goal he never got to achieve.
This is without mentioning that the evidence for "affecting" the CD comes from statements like "my sounds will reach the furthest corners of this disc space!" which doesn't actually say it's shaking the disc and an attack that evidently DIDN'T destroy the space and was coming fron the guy that did the attack which could entirely just be him being full of himself??? Unless I'm just completely illiterate these arguments don't really sound great. Hyperbole and flowery language can easily be applied here.
And say it is evidence for Outer, evidently, it doesn't immediately make someone Outer because they never did manage to break free of the disc after all that. The character that supposedly grants outer and wanted to get out of that dimension launched an attack he thought should've destroyed the sound dimension and it didn't even work. And affecting or destroying the sound dimension at all doesn't immediately have to coincide with affecting the disc itself as well.
Anyways, 1-A Mario because many games actively refer to the Player and have them help Mario out, with the Mario cast in many commercials and even Mario Maker being shown to exist beyond their fictitious game world and can affect it, even playing as themselves and creating the levels. The Void was also gonna consume all dimensions, which should include the real world of the Player that's explicitly mentioned by Bestovius.
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Lil bros thought they could debunk all of DC Cosmology while glazing GL and nobody would pipe up. They are getting ripped apart on the official Reddit post and Death Battle subreddit, people actually calling them biased and shit (rightfully so, they’re arguments are dogshit lol).
Death Battle Predictions: Simon the Digger VS Kyle Rayner (2025)
“In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer.” -Albert Camus Simon the Digger, the man who pierced the Heavens with his mech, Gurren Lagann. Kyle Rayner…g1-team.com
I haven’t been a huge fan of G1, especially when it comes to their comic stuff, but at the very least I can see their logic most of the time. But this? This is a genuine fumble of the highest degree, and if Kyle wins tomorrow, they are going to get dogged on til the cows come home.
Rayfire
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That last one was pretty much exactly what i imagined the fight was gonna look like, i thought it was gonna be almost entirely sprites. Happy it's hand-drawn tho
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I don't really know if I'd say biased. I think it's just an interpretation they came to an agreement on that a decent portion of people don't really like. They clearly do like Kyle as well, they just think the CD thing is truly an R>F Outer case.
It reminds me of their Billcord takes before Bill just very explicitly scaled to the cosmology which relied on some kinda questionable leaps and assumptions, at least imo
It reminds me of their Billcord takes before Bill just very explicitly scaled to the cosmology which relied on some kinda questionable leaps and assumptions, at least imo
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The one thing i'd say works in favor of the R>F argument is that it's somewhat of a reference to the same power that made Avant Simon go from fictional 2-D into Real 3-D. Kinda like "Hey, if Team Gurren really wanted they could just hop outta the CD and chill at your sofa and drink all your beer!" but even then, it's just...a very odd feat to me.
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People are mentioning the attempt and rejection to getting GL Outer by our forum, and while I have no horse in the race, the primary arguments against it were something that was refuted in the very blog and thread.
For instance, "connecting the Dimensions," being a disqualifier isn't valid, nor is "considering it a metaphor," because as noted in that thread and in both Kirbonic and G1 Blog, Spiral Energy (specifically Otoko's) being a transcendent energy that empowered Avant to perform the feat to begin sidesteps that because it actually fulfills the specific niche quota that is the exception, and it's not any form of metaphor, it's hyper literal and meta. Using the "11-D" feats and arguing it creates a contradiction via anti-feat doesn't really make sense, because the verse never said 11-D is the limit. This was even pointed out by another User. Most counterargument votes relied on these points, like Glassman's. There was even an attempt to use measurement as a disqualifer, which was being held up as viable by the counterarguments, when as pointed out by Phoenks, this makes no tangible sense. Additionally, it ignores that the Mechs at that point were actually immeasurable, abstract thought forms, making the point inherently invalid, and that the measurement offered was merely a guideline used to give the viewer a basic idea of what it's supposed to be/grant you the ability to conceptualize it as a viewer, not an actual size.
The only valid counterpoint in the whole thread that actually remained unaddressed is how ordinary GL was very clear in it being related to mathematics rather than reality and fiction, but that was largely because the thread stopped being talked in because all the 1-A threads rely on Ultima, who has not yet gotten to it even to this day. Meaning it wasn't even ACTUALLY rejected. And even THEN, that only reduced the judgement of that one person to "uncertainty." Basically, what I'm getting at is any reference to this thread and how it denied GL isn't valid, because all the points (but one) that "countered" it were based in something that straight up doesn't apply/isn't true/the blog specifically answered in a way that made said counterargument invalid, and the one it didn't is not yet known to be a dealbreaker, (though if it remained unanswered, they did say they'd ultimately disagree.)
I'm not saying I agree or disagree with Outer GL, either, because I have no experience in that tier or granting validity. I'm merely pointing out what happened and how it literally doesn't apply/cannot be used to critique the G1 Blog's use of Outer as a solid tier for Simon. It was an inconclusive thread that didn't even accurately counter the points in the blog (for the most part), leaving any judgement on it (by our forum) rather shaky/unsubstansiated. Both within the positive AND negative interpretations of Simon's ability.
For instance, "connecting the Dimensions," being a disqualifier isn't valid, nor is "considering it a metaphor," because as noted in that thread and in both Kirbonic and G1 Blog, Spiral Energy (specifically Otoko's) being a transcendent energy that empowered Avant to perform the feat to begin sidesteps that because it actually fulfills the specific niche quota that is the exception, and it's not any form of metaphor, it's hyper literal and meta. Using the "11-D" feats and arguing it creates a contradiction via anti-feat doesn't really make sense, because the verse never said 11-D is the limit. This was even pointed out by another User. Most counterargument votes relied on these points, like Glassman's. There was even an attempt to use measurement as a disqualifer, which was being held up as viable by the counterarguments, when as pointed out by Phoenks, this makes no tangible sense. Additionally, it ignores that the Mechs at that point were actually immeasurable, abstract thought forms, making the point inherently invalid, and that the measurement offered was merely a guideline used to give the viewer a basic idea of what it's supposed to be/grant you the ability to conceptualize it as a viewer, not an actual size.
The only valid counterpoint in the whole thread that actually remained unaddressed is how ordinary GL was very clear in it being related to mathematics rather than reality and fiction, but that was largely because the thread stopped being talked in because all the 1-A threads rely on Ultima, who has not yet gotten to it even to this day. Meaning it wasn't even ACTUALLY rejected. And even THEN, that only reduced the judgement of that one person to "uncertainty." Basically, what I'm getting at is any reference to this thread and how it denied GL isn't valid, because all the points (but one) that "countered" it were based in something that straight up doesn't apply/isn't true/the blog specifically answered in a way that made said counterargument invalid, and the one it didn't is not yet known to be a dealbreaker, (though if it remained unanswered, they did say they'd ultimately disagree.)
I'm not saying I agree or disagree with Outer GL, either, because I have no experience in that tier or granting validity. I'm merely pointing out what happened and how it literally doesn't apply/cannot be used to critique the G1 Blog's use of Outer as a solid tier for Simon. It was an inconclusive thread that didn't even accurately counter the points in the blog (for the most part), leaving any judgement on it (by our forum) rather shaky/unsubstansiated. Both within the positive AND negative interpretations of Simon's ability.
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FoxySonicMaster108
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I'm rooting for the goat Simon all the way...
Even if he loses, this is still going to be an amazing Death Battle just from what I saw of that preview and I cannot wait to watch it tomorrow.
(Also I think the R>F for Gurren Lagann is kinda stupid, given the way the verse uses Spatial Dimensions a lot, so it's weird to me)
Even if he loses, this is still going to be an amazing Death Battle just from what I saw of that preview and I cannot wait to watch it tomorrow.
(Also I think the R>F for Gurren Lagann is kinda stupid, given the way the verse uses Spatial Dimensions a lot, so it's weird to me)
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Who are you people lmao
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I was wondering how the 20 wouldn't mean 20 when you could see the a "20" in the raw transcript, until I remembered that audio play might not even have an officially released transcript and it would be fan written
0ホルスファルコン将軍0
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Anime VS Comic MUs really be summoning every ************ with two cents
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I come here here and there. I was here for Billcord and Bowsegg.
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Lmaooo
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Welcome back screwattack forums!
FoxySonicMaster108
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"Was the poster boy of dimensional tiering in the VS community for years" as a disadvantage for Simon has me in hysterics LMAO
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It's funny seeing new faces here makes sen6it involves a big name like Simon who folks are invested in
All I'm saying is this
DT was mistake
FoxySonicMaster108
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I'm just a guy who sometimes appears on this particular thread, I was last here for Bowser VS Eggman (which was also absolute cinema)
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Also I wanna add that for the longest time it was agree that if Kyle had the LE he would just win. And now that he has it Simon still wins the blog?
The switch up is crazyyyy.
The switch up is crazyyyy.
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It's funny to me because while TTGL actual dabbles into that shit they don't bring it up 24/7 outside lord genome comments
FoxySonicMaster108
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Couldn't have said it better myself. Gurren Lagann does mention a lot of scientific things, it doesn't overshadow anything.
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My guess they checked over how strong it is as a win con felt it wasn't the instant win button as many felt
Its also funny the blog also debunked 20D TTGL
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I just want them to calculate the IBBS's expansion rate to see what absurd number they come up with. They could even scale it to Simon's Spiral Power rate if they wanted to
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So he's who we have to thank for the huge mess we're in now, huh..................
I don't have any stakes in this fight, but now at least I have the G1 verdict being hilariously wrong to look forward to. Who knows tho, maybe Outer Man Kyle could **** up somehow
FoxySonicMaster108
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That's interesting to me because the same blog talks about R>F for Simon (also more of a me thing, not sure if I entirely buy the debunk for 20D)
FoxySonicMaster108
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Yeah, that's kinda where I'm at right now (that, and we don't even know which transcripts are the most accurate right now)
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It's insane that when I first saw the blog, my first thought was, "holy ****, they managed to make him even stronger than he is in the wiki", like they gave him Existence Erasure, resistance to it, resistance to Sealing, and probably some others I'm forgetting. They even made him 1-A. I'm wondering who would win between G1 Simon and DB Superman.
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GL are really OP
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I legitimately love Simon way more than Kyle (he’s no John Stewart)… but going so far out of their way to “debunk” DC’s cosmology and then casually letting Simon slide into R>F Outerversal based on some random Drama CD that I don’t even think ever got officially translated into English feels… kinda biased.
Also not even allowing ONE pity win for Kyle when they gave one to ****** Master Chief who had basically no win cons that mattered despite this being “51/49” is hilarious. Like damn give Kyle fans a break goddamn.
Also not even allowing ONE pity win for Kyle when they gave one to ****** Master Chief who had basically no win cons that mattered despite this being “51/49” is hilarious. Like damn give Kyle fans a break goddamn.
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