Serlock_Holmes
He/Him- 3,651
- 1,545
Does this thread need more votes or is this okay for mag 6?
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Grappler Baki: Making a Tier 7 verse Tier 7
- Thread starter DMUA
- Start date
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I mean frankly I think this has more than enough support for Magnitude 6. May wanna ask another staff member just to be sure
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my friend, unless those walls were for some reason 7C in durablility that punch should have went straight trough them, that's how it works, those kilotons of energy output shoud have gone somewhere and it was definitenly not on the walls
what now? a 5B character punching a regular wall with full strenght and failing to break it is no longer an anti feat?
because it seems that's what you're arguing for
Serlock_Holmes
He/Him- 3,651
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Will wait for some more staff to be available.
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This doesn’t actually address my point. This kinda thing is very common in fiction yet we don’t go downgrading everyone and their mother to Tier 9 as a result.
We do not equate Attack Potency to Destructive Capacity. It’s that simple
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From the Attack Potency page:
“A character with a certain degree of attack potency does not necessarily need to cause destructive feats on that level, but can cause damage to characters that can withstand such forces. As such it isn't proof of a low attack potency, if a character's attacks only cause a small amount of destruction.”
“A character with a certain degree of attack potency does not necessarily need to cause destructive feats on that level, but can cause damage to characters that can withstand such forces. As such it isn't proof of a low attack potency, if a character's attacks only cause a small amount of destruction.”
Serlock_Holmes
He/Him- 3,651
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Don't try I have linked it twice already.
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In that case, this shouldn’t even be an argument
Serlock_Holmes
He/Him- 3,651
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Well this is why this thread is now at 7 pages without reason. Have messaged Patou but no idea if he wants to participate in this. We need one more vote to conclusively end this and then the scaling can be discussed.
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neither does this, what isn't common is a guy having one tier 7 feat then other consistent tier 9 and tier 8 feats yet somehow the only that counts is the tier 7 one?
you also failed to address my point, if his attack potency was even remotely in kilotons range a regular wall should have been annihilated, that is the definition of an anti feat
if you think otherwise, please elaborate why, just stating that it is isn't exactly an argument
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Don't know much about this verse but Magnitude 6 should be alright to use for a big earthquake in Japan.
That seems about right for what is shown as well. It was stopped before anything serious could happen, but that shaking was really violent.
Passersby
What CloverDragon says is correct, we don't care about such a thing.
By this logic the feat can't be above Tier 9, yet he stopped a quake that was visually shaking a massive area. Fiction can do anything it wants regardless of logic, so we usually don't treat AOE as a anti-feat at all. There can be exceptions to everything, but this is not one of those times.
His fist should be hotter than the core of the sun if he punched with that level of strength in reality.
Just look at any other verse like this series on the wiki, they have lots of "weirdness" with AOE.
That seems about right for what is shown as well. It was stopped before anything serious could happen, but that shaking was really violent.
Passersby
What CloverDragon says is correct, we don't care about such a thing.
By this logic the feat can't be above Tier 9, yet he stopped a quake that was visually shaking a massive area. Fiction can do anything it wants regardless of logic, so we usually don't treat AOE as a anti-feat at all. There can be exceptions to everything, but this is not one of those times.
His fist should be hotter than the core of the sun if he punched with that level of strength in reality.
Just look at any other verse like this series on the wiki, they have lots of "weirdness" with AOE.
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That’s the thing though. This take is literally going against the standards of the site itself. Also, the Tier 7 calc is a feat for a reason. Feats, by definition, are impressive displays.
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i'm also quite iffy on this AP and detructive capacity stuff, based on your statement, can anti feats even exist?
like, can someone have a tier 7 feat then miserably fail to even destroy regular walls the entire series but that wouldn't matter at all because
Attack Potency =/= Destructive Capacity?
how and when is that even applied?
like, can someone have a tier 7 feat then miserably fail to even destroy regular walls the entire series but that wouldn't matter at all because
Attack Potency =/= Destructive Capacity?
how and when is that even applied?
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It’s applied in most cases. Rarely is there an exception to this
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I see nothing that suggest AOE is important in this case in the feat that is linked above.
He stop an earthquake with his own physical strength, the AOE of what he did to stop doesn't matter.
90%+ of the time AOE is ignored.
He stop an earthquake with his own physical strength, the AOE of what he did to stop doesn't matter.
90%+ of the time AOE is ignored.
Serlock_Holmes
He/Him- 3,651
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An anti feat would be Naruto being hurt by the falling of a building, Yujiro being hurt from bullets, Superman being hurt by running into a car or Thanos getting caught by the police. Anti-feats are stuff the character should shrug off but is on the contrary hurt by.
What Rusty said basically. Thanks a lot for the support.
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i feel like my common sens is being quesitioned as we speak, a punch containing literal kilotons of energy output failing to even go trough a single regular wall really seems like a valid anti feat...
i have no idea at this point, i had the impression that only applies when something like a ki disk contains the same amount of energy as a ki ball that blew up a island, but thr ki saw only cuts, they're equal in energy but the ki ball is an AOE attack, or the energy is concentrated on single attack vs an energy made to be AOE
not quite literally a fist containing the same power as a nuke going full power but doing nothing to a wall kind of AP =/= DC
i don't know at this point, i will just let it go i guess
i have no idea at this point, i had the impression that only applies when something like a ki disk contains the same amount of energy as a ki ball that blew up a island, but thr ki saw only cuts, they're equal in energy but the ki ball is an AOE attack, or the energy is concentrated on single attack vs an energy made to be AOE
not quite literally a fist containing the same power as a nuke going full power but doing nothing to a wall kind of AP =/= DC
i don't know at this point, i will just let it go i guess
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An example of AOE being used to show that a calculation is wrong would be...
Character hits a wall at a certain speed that gives Tier 8 KE, but the impact doesn't even crack the wall.
In this case, this character stops an Earthquake that has a certain amount of energy. We aren't even calculating his punch, we're just scaling him to the Earthquake he stopped. Him not causing massive AOE damage from his attack doesn't make the feat invalid, it's just fiction being fiction.
The Earthquake existed and he stopped it with a punch.
The only reason to not use the feat is to argue if it's an outlier, which I can't say due to my limited knowledge.
Character hits a wall at a certain speed that gives Tier 8 KE, but the impact doesn't even crack the wall.
In this case, this character stops an Earthquake that has a certain amount of energy. We aren't even calculating his punch, we're just scaling him to the Earthquake he stopped. Him not causing massive AOE damage from his attack doesn't make the feat invalid, it's just fiction being fiction.
The Earthquake existed and he stopped it with a punch.
The only reason to not use the feat is to argue if it's an outlier, which I can't say due to my limited knowledge.
Serlock_Holmes
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It's quite common at basically everything in fiction like the reason Superman doesn't regularly vaporize most of the city in each of his fights.
This was the image that was the crux of the issue. That since the character that did the feat with the earthquake avoided that punch the feat of the quake is invalid. The character that did the earthquake feat is the strongest bar none in the series and by a long distance and even in this fight once he actually got serious he was toying with the small one.
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as in fiction makes no sens so everything goes?
then why even try to scale it?
with that logic, sacling this is pointless
Serlock_Holmes
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It isn't you just have to follow weird rules. Keep everything that makes sense, go along with the verse and throw away the really weird stuff meaning statements like omnipotent or infnite power which show strenght but not to the level they are claiming.
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This all literally fixed by differentiating attack potency and destructive capability
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the physically impossible stuff that defy the laws of physics?
who decides what to throw away and what to keep?
fictional settings create worlds via world building and said worlds are made out of matter, it doesn't matter if the author has no knowledge on physical laws, whatever he makes on his verse, as long as it's made out matter. has to follow the properties and limitations of actual matter and can only alter it using supernatural abilities
that's just how it works,at least that's how i tought it works
appearently not
Serlock_Holmes
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No while legit supernatural hax are of course noted we also accept what the author wants. In Baki's case for example Yujiro straight up gets hit by lighting which you can't survive as an organism just due to the temperatures created. Or the fact that Yujiro can't get diseases or cancer. All those are impossible stuff that we take at face value. We also take at face value that he countered the power of the waves of an earthquake because the feat is quite clear.
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and we give him heat and electricity resistance, those are both supernatural abilities
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You can survive lightning strikes, just not literally voring the entirety of the Lightning bolt for several seconds.
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Could you call Therefir and Damage35, please?
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Rubber has electricity resistance, and most metals have some form of heat resistance
Serlock_Holmes
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They are not exactly supernatural more like superhuman but yes. The point is he is a biological human in the end of the day. His proteins should have been broken down just due to the heat.
Serlock_Holmes
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Yeah I mean most humans can survive it but don't they need some conductor nearby so the lighting doesn't just wreak their bodies? I don't think that's in any way survivable. Everything the fire touches is literally destroyed and is a fair bet if the person can regain total or even limited mobility. All it did for Yujiro was give him a new hairstyle.
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Nah the truely supernatural thing here is that he for some reason when he got hit by the lightning he absorbed the whole entire yield of it (that's not at all how it works), but that's how it was outright stated on panel, so yeah.
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Uh, the ground. Anything your touching. Any soles. Clothes. Like Yujiro only has it cause he ate the bolt in it's entirety for several seconds lol
Serlock_Holmes
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Yujiro probably made lighting fall in love with him knowing the mangaka.
Yeah yeah you are right.
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Probably would be better to deal with this in another thread considering how long this have become, but if the impossible part Yujiro stopping the earthquake (the fact that an earthquake can't be stopped with a punch and instead would get worse) is getting ignored, then shouldn't the same be done with the feat of turning coal in diamond? Previously was removed from the fact that it would be impossible to do that with pressure alone as heat is needed for such thing, but if we are ignoring the impossible part of the earthquake then the same should happen with the diamond feat.
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yes, those materials both have a form of resistance towards them, humans don't
that's why those are in fact supernatural abilities for a human to have
Serlock_Holmes
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Yeah but to be honest it's not even that good anyways. Verse has plenty of M calcs.
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the diamond one was discarded
and i still have the argument that this feat is 100% due to hax or a supernatural abilitie
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The verse page only list a single Class M feat, which is the coal turning to diamond.
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This is exactly the problem. We ignore logic and since one exception has now been made, then there are no boundaries
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they have quite a bit of accepted class M clacs, they just need a CRT to implement them
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