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Avatar Discussion Thread

BrackishBrineBroth said:
And for covering the world, there is that cloud feat posted earlier that Vaatu casually did. If he was at full power, I could imagine the feat being much bigger
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I don't think that's enough to suggest he was going to cover the planet in clouds with weather manipulation. Sure he has weather manip, but the imagery from the show presents his escape during harmonic convergence as more so some kind of dark energy that covers the Earth and changes the sky. I don't think we can actually quantify it.
 
Been thinking about something. Both Raava and Vaatu are called "primordial spirits" several times in supplementary material, such as the tabletop. The season 2 artbook says that they originated from the tree of time.

The tree of time isn't just a name, as it lets Korra see visions of the past and present.

And in the video game, when Korra is in the avatar state, she says "You've grown strong for the past 1,000 years, but I've been getting strong since time began!"

I wonder if the birth of Raava and Vaatu was the literal dawn of time, as in the concept. Not enough evidence for this of course, but it'd be cool if a future series explored the implications. Especially since it's hinted that the lion turtles predate even the spirits as they already existed when the world "began".
 
BrackishBrineBroth said:
Been thinking about something. Both Raava and Vaatu are called "primordial spirits" several times in supplementary material, such as the tabletop. The season 2 artbook says that they originated from the tree of time.

The tree of time isn't just a name, as it lets Korra see visions of the past and present.

And in the video game, when Korra is in the avatar state, she says "You've grown strong for the past 1,000 years, but I've been getting strong since time began!"

I wonder if the birth of Raava and Vaatu was the literal dawn of time, as in the concept. Not enough evidence for this of course, but it'd be cool if a future series explored the implications. Especially since it's hinted that the lion turtles predate even the spirits as they already existed when the world "began".
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Eh, id say this is way too vague for that. But aren't Raava / Vaatu supposed to be the concepts of light and dark anyway?
 
vsbattles.fandom.com

Avatar: The Last Airbender

For detailed information about the series, see the Avatar Wiki. Avatar: The Last Airbender is an animated series created by Michael Dante DiMartino and Bryan Konietzko. It centers around Aang, the incarnation of the spirit of the earth (known as the Avatar), and his quest to stop the tyrannical...
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Added a Calculations section on the verse page
 
Some feats that might be worth looking into @Dalesean027

Off site / unevaluated calcs:
 
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BrackishBrineBroth said:
They are, yep.
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Interestingly enough, wouldn’t Korra, Unalaq and maybe Jinora have some level of conceptual manipulation then? As absurd as that sounds, it does seem like they’re be able to manipulate Raava and Vaatu in such a way.

-Unalaqs spirit bending almost destroyed Korras soul in the spirit world (which Raava is fused with)

-Unalaq then destroyed Raava in HC

-Jinoras spirit powers were able to speed up Raavas ressurection

-Korra gathered up all of the light that is Raava from inside UnaVaatu and pulled her out

-Korras spiritbending was able to destroy UnaVaatu
 
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That would be pretty wild; spiritbending and energybending granting conceptual manipulation.

And I know some smartass is going to bring up Zhao killing the moon spirit; Tui had explicitly given up her immortal form long before the four nations even existed
 
BrackishBrineBroth said:
That would be pretty wild; spiritbending and energybending granting conceptual manipulation.

And I know some smartass is going to bring up Zhao killing the moon spirit; Tui had explicitly given up her immortal form long before the four nations even existed
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I don’t think anyone should be even comparing them in the first place really. Raava and Vaatu are primordial spirits who, even by their own words, have existed since time began and make up the light/peace & darkness/chaos in the world. It would be an understatement to say they are a different breed from all other spirits in the verse.
 
BrackishBrineBroth said:
Also Kukui, the purple energy in this scene is Vaatu's energy that's spreading out from the tree of time, as the same energy doesn't show up during Wan's fight.
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I’d argue that this could be a deviation in how Harmonic Convergence was animated between the 2 fights (since there is an obvious depiction change between them), especially since Korras case was the only time we saw the planet and how it was being effected by harmonic convergence, whereas with Wan we only saw the spirit world.

And, narratively speaking, it really doesn’t make sense to think this is Vaatus feat. The energy enveloping the planet was coming directly from the co-joined spirit portals. We even see this energy around the planet fade away right as HC ends and the spirit portals separate after Korra and Raava re-fuse. UnaVaatu was already destroyed before this happened, so that means the energy wrapping around the planet didn’t really have anything to do with Vaatu.

Besides, Vaatu in the 2nd HC was still sealed within the Tree of Time, and he explicitly needed the spirit energy given off by the combined spirit portals in order to break Wans seal. Why would Vaatu, in a moment where he needs to absorb amplified spirit energy, expend more of it?
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
I’d argue that this could be a deviation in how Harmonic Convergence was animated between the 2 fights (since there is an obvious depiction change between them), especially since Korras case was the only time we saw the planet and how it was being effected by harmonic convergence, whereas with Wan we only saw the spirit world.

And, narratively speaking, it really doesn’t make sense to think this is Vaatus feat. The energy enveloping the planet was coming directly from the co-joined spirit portals. We even see this energy around the planet fade away right as HC ends and the spirit portals separate after Korra and Raava re-fuse.

Besides, Vaatu in the 2nd HC was still sealed within the Tree of Time, and he explicitly needed the spirit energy given off by the combined spirit portals in order to break Wans seal. Why would Vaatu, in a moment where he needs to absorb amplified spirit energy, expend more of it?
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I agree that it isn't really his feat; the spiritual energy of HC is basically bouncing off the tree and reflecting his energy onto the world. He wouldn't scale to it otherwise he would have kicked Korra's ass in the fight, but he should scale to it after Raava is destroyed and he gains his full power because it matches what was said earlier about him covering the world in darkness during HC.
 
Vaatu scales to it regardless since he absorbed the energy to break out of the Tree of Time. I don’t disagree on that.

I just disagree with him being the cause of the energy spreading.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Vaatu scales to it regardless since he absorbed the energy to break out of the Tree of Time. I don’t disagree on that.

I just disagree with him being the cause of the energy spreading.
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He's not the one spreading it, but it is his energy. It matches the color scheme of his lasers, and I doubt that if the roles were reversed and Raava was the one being freed, anybody would have panicked reactions
 
gonna put there here as well:

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Avatar Feat compilation

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

okay in regards to my blog here's whats accepted

Book 3 Aang punches a pillar - 0.41758126195 Tons of TNT (Building level)

Waterbenders create a large mass of Ice - 727 Tons of TNT (Multi-City Block level+) per bender

Katara makes a Giant Water Wave - 1.505342894739484 Tons of TNT (Building level+)

Roku stops a volcano - 1.9497451 Kilotons of TNT (Small Town level)


the waterbender feat makes Aang's casual 8-B and low 7-C feat less likely to be outliers along with Combustion Mans 8-A feat, The Dai Li feat is currently not usable and needs more discussion amongst CGMs but also big thanks to TheRustyOne for his evaluation. It seems we'll have to wait on the Dai Li though to see what we'll be doing with them
 
BrackishBrineBroth said:
Funny how the profiles are finally getting all these updates after someone tried to downgrade the verse.
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To be fair, Avatar should’ve been revised like this already a while ago. One of my friends, who used to be on the site but unfortunately is no longer here, made a big CRT to give the verse a bunch of stuff. But Avatar activity died out here for a while until now so it was left at a stand still.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Interestingly enough, wouldn’t Korra, Unalaq and maybe Jinora have some level of conceptual manipulation then? As absurd as that sounds, it does seem like they’re be able to manipulate Raava and Vaatu in such a way.

-Unalaqs spirit bending almost destroyed Korras soul in the spirit world (which Raava is fused with)

-Unalaq then destroyed Raava in HC

-Jinoras spirit powers were able to speed up Raavas ressurection

-Korra gathered up all of the light that is Raava from inside UnaVaatu and pulled her out

-Korras spiritbending was able to destroy UnaVaatu
Click to expand...

So what are everyone’s thoughts about this btw?
 
If they're the literal conceptual existences of light and dark then sure but is she destroying the actual concept itself or the form its taking
 
Dalesean027 said:
If they're the literal conceptual existences of light and dark then sure but is she destroying the actual concept itself or the form its taking
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Considering that Vaatu and Raava can't be destroyed in-universe, Korra def can't destroy concepts, but she could have limited concept manipulation since she weakened Vaatu to the point that light and peace became the dominant concept as opposed to chaos and darkness.
 
BrackishBrineBroth said:
Considering that Vaatu and Raava can't be destroyed in-universe, Korra def can't destroy concepts, but she could have limited concept manipulation since she weakened Vaatu to the point that light and peace became the dominant concept as opposed to chaos and darkness.
Click to expand...
Pretty much this. Korra can’t destroy them at all, but she was able to weaken the balance so that light becomes the dominant conceptual force over darkness.

She also gathered up all of the light that makes up Raava from inside Vaatu and pulled her out of him to bring her back into her avatar form.

And she also used Spiritbending to cleanse UnaVaatu, effectively killing Vaatu
 
Just thought of something. Can people actually see airbending when its performed? Obviously when its picking up dust and debris people can see that, but I was wondering if the other times it's visible just for the viewer's sake. By the time of Korra, hardly anyone knows how to react to airbending attacks including Amon, Unalaq, and most people that Zaheer attacked. In og Avatar, airbender movements could have still have been relatively available knowledge, at least for high-tier benders like Azula.
 
As I said in the previous thread, Amon upscaling from Season 3 cast is fine, but it should specifically be upscaling from Katara via being able to bloodbend without a full moon that Katara couldn't due because her chi wasn't strong enough.

Also, that reminds me, the season 1-2 keys should be axed. Even in the 1st season, Korra was able to put up a good fight up against Tarrlok who also upscales from season 3 Katara and he had to resort to bloodbending to turn the tables. Mako and Bolin also should be within the same ballpark as her.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
As I said in the previous thread, Amon upscaling from Season 3 cast is fine, but it should specifically be upscaling from Katara via being able to bloodbend without a full moon that Katara couldn't due because her chi wasn't strong enough.

Also, that reminds me, the season 1-2 keys should be axed. Even in the 1st season, Korra was able to put up a good fight up against Tarrlok who also upscales from season 3 Katara and he had to resort to bloodbending to turn the tables. Mako and Bolin also should be within the same ballpark as her.
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Agreed. Also, her Giant Spirit key should be separated from the avatar state key, and all of her post-season 2 keys should indicate that she can enter the avatar state at will.
 
Ok since the upgrade thread was closed I'd like to voice my complaints with the page update

Season 1 is fine with it's tier however I believe we could Upscale to baseline 8-B+ (55 Tons) because Aang and Katara already scale above random waterbenders at 48 Tons since both Aang and Katara are portrayed as superior

Season 2 is the same thing with Aang making random sandbenders shit themselves when he got made and each of them are capable of High end 8-B feats (87 Tons)

Season 3 he should just scale to straight up Low 7-C due to battling top tiers like Ozai while there amped and still managing to keep up

Also we should apply the LS changes via the new calcs as well
 
Changes have been applied

If anyone is wondering why I left out Combustion Man's feat and deleted an existing feat here's why

I believe the Combustion man feat is lowballed due to not taking into account all of the water outside of the truncated cone displayed in the calc

The other LS calc was deleted because it used a found height of Ba Sing Se's walls instead of the official height
 
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