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Exactly, it’s not an exception
Character shows ability to block attack but sustains injury from it, character downscales
this is how we usually do things
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STRONGEST One-Punch Man Discussion Thread!
- Thread starter Phoenks
- Start date
Character shows ability to block attack but sustains injury from it, character downscales
this is how we usually do things
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Wasn’t that when she was trying to stab saitama with a box cutter or something? Don’t think she had a barrier up.
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Also, Do-S got her skull crushed by Sweet Mask (Fubuki also says she's way below him), who got nearly ripped in half by Furher and couldn't do shit to DS.
This places her leagues below any form of half monster, let alone the Garou that initially fought Bomb.
This places her leagues below any form of half monster, let alone the Garou that initially fought Bomb.
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Do-S just whips people with the intent to control them, not kill them
Unless fubuki is low 7-B physically now
What’s the end goal here btw I’m having a little trouble following. Rover < Do-s is already suggested by my chain
Ok you can’t even give me this crap, you yourself said peak fubuki should downscale from rover.
I was planning on having it go more like
at least high 7-A+ rover >> High 7-A+ fubuki > At most high 7-A+ Do-s
And amai mask > fubuki > do-s
I’m open to changing it since if it’s this controversial then it probably won’t get accepted in the crt anyways but like the amai mask thing is already covered since
High 7-A+ amai mask << At least high 7-A+ fuhrer ugly > High 7-A+ gums and ttm etc.
And vomit ugly is at least high 7-A+ from darkshine, then at most 6-C Garou one shotting him is consistent.
So if fubuki downscales from rover then the amai mask chain becomes completely fine.
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How does that even prove your point that Do-S scales because she could harm Fubuki then, then? Fubuki isn't shielded, Do-S isn't trying to kill her, and Fubuki can stop Do-S' attacks with infinitely less effort than what she used against Rover.
There's no downscaling to be had. Fubuki and Do-S are so far above people who are immensely above the characters you're talking about.
I mean, even the Garou we're currently scaling to Bang one-shot VFU, who fought on par with Darkshine.
So there's entire chains of one-shotting going on here, more so than Royal Ripper.
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actually I've just been made known of a bigger error in the scaling chain so I'm completely revising it (the scaling itself won't change, though)
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Bump
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- 6-C Platinum Sperm = PD AB Garou = AB bang > high 7-A+ base PD Garou = Bomb = Base Bang = Rover AP > High 7-A Peak Fubuki
- high 7-A+ rover AP > high 7-A Half monster garou
- Spiral Garou = high 7-A+ Darkshine > high 7-A Half Monster garou
- 6-C Platinum Sperm > at least high 7-A+ Golden Sperm > high 7-A+ Darkshine = base bang = bomb
- 6-C AB Bang = Post Molt centipede > at least high 7-A+ Pre Molt centipede > high 7-A+ Bomb = Base Bang
- 6-C Post molt centipede > high 7-A+ Jet Drive arrow (genos durability, striking strength doesn't scale)
- At least high 7-A+ Pre molt Centipede > High 7-A Metal Knight missiles
- high 7-A+ Base Bang ~ Atomic Samurai > High 7-A Half Monster garou
- At least high 7-A+ Sun Blade atomic samurai = Golden Sperm > high 7-A+ Darkshine
I do not like it this way at all
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Also I’m still in favor of saying amai mask is stronger than peak fubuki since peak fubuki isn’t a transformation or special technique and saying amai mask > Suppressed fubuki is kinda stupid
My thoughts are more like
High 7-A+ Rover >High 7-A Peak Fubuki<=Amai Mask<<High 7-A+ Fuhrer Ugly
And high 7-A Amai mask>(7-A+?) Do-S
this is my personal preferred scaling chain
My thoughts are more like
High 7-A+ Rover >High 7-A Peak Fubuki<=Amai Mask<<High 7-A+ Fuhrer Ugly
And high 7-A Amai mask>(7-A+?) Do-S
this is my personal preferred scaling chain
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Base Bang scales to Atomic Samurai, not the other way around.
Assuming your scaling is correct and Half Monster Garou is High 7-A, Atomic Samurai would just be "At least High 7-A"
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I think you’d have a better shot for infinite stamina on metal bat with his fighting spirit
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Read my crt on what saitama experienced
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It’s basically rejected already, and even if I did agree with you I’m not about to argue with chariot on this
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There’s a better argument to be made once we get limiters information on the profiles
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I imagine a bonus chapter where saitama goes to the doctor,and the doctor explains that his body is not in a good condition.
Do to the over training,his body is starting to act in a way that is should not act.
The pain,the ilness,the mental trauma,etc.
All those effects are not show in him,Even if they should have all of them.
Is like he is overcoming all the Bad things and gaining good things with some kind of Power.
Do to the over training,his body is starting to act in a way that is should not act.
The pain,the ilness,the mental trauma,etc.
All those effects are not show in him,Even if they should have all of them.
Is like he is overcoming all the Bad things and gaining good things with some kind of Power.
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We're not claiming it's a transformation, we're just claiming it's way stronger than anything she could normally do or that Do-S did, and literally all the feats and evidence in the manga supports that notion.
Fuhrer Ugly being even close to this Garou is ludicrous.
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if we do it the reverse way
vomit fuhrer ugly high 7-A+ <(one shot)< Garou 6-C
and his durability is arguably even lower than that high 7-A+, since his acid was melting himself to the extent that he had to regen to sustain himself, and the acid only got more powerful over time
I personally think fuhrer ugly here isn't very important
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Not even talking about VFU, I'm talking about the specific one that Sweet Mask.
His body is the acid, he was able to match Darkshine who's one of the most powerful heroes (despite getting stomped by Bang with Abandonment, not even Awakened Breath), and he ripped Gums in half while he couldn't do so before. All the evidence points to the fact that he's > pre-VFU.
Fuhrer Ugly here is very important, because he's ridiculously above Sweet Mask, who's ridiculously above Fubuki by feats and statements.
My guy, you're definitely abusing downscaling and Do-S shouldn't be anywhere near Bang enough to even receive High 7-A.
His body is the acid, he was able to match Darkshine who's one of the most powerful heroes (despite getting stomped by Bang with Abandonment, not even Awakened Breath), and he ripped Gums in half while he couldn't do so before. All the evidence points to the fact that he's > pre-VFU.
Fuhrer Ugly here is very important, because he's ridiculously above Sweet Mask, who's ridiculously above Fubuki by feats and statements.
My guy, you're definitely abusing downscaling and Do-S shouldn't be anywhere near Bang enough to even receive High 7-A.
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He already was already that superior to gums, considering he pulverized tank top master who gums struggled with greatly and was relatively evenly matched with in their two struggles against eachother. In fact the currently accepted scaling already shows that fuhrer ugly was very much superior to gums.
yes he matched darkshine, who is just superior to pre-spiral half monster garou, which makes him high 7-A+
hence the high 7-A+ < 6-C scaling chain
so I still have to say I disagree on this point
And his body being the acid isn't true, considering it was clearly melting him. The acid is a part of him, sure, but that doesn't really mean it wasn't damaging him.
scan of fuhrer ugly melting himself while swelling (regenerating) from the inside
so yes, his acid is heavily self destructive and it took all the eating he could get in order to sustain his regen, hence him chowing down on all that sperm
Sorry, but this isn't the case.
I said, do-s would be 7-A+, not high 7-A
so the gap between bang and do-s is even bigger than that.
I know that I've been doing a lot of annoying downscaling recently but in this case I really believe that it's valid.
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Not to the point of ripping him in half, which is something he could only do after getting stronger with insecurity, as he was more insecure than ever.
Which is fine, just don't downscale Fubuki who's one-shot chains below even that.
His body was, for the most part, acid, to the point where he vomits it.
As for this point, I don't even feel I have to address it because he's physically stronger via Bang scaling.
Also, the fact that the acid gained his abilities in the first place speaks for itself.
There's lots of characters who still get stronger in spite or even because of this kind of stuff, so I don't see this as a valid argument.
My point is not to downscale them at all. So it's really immaterial.
Do-S and co have even less reason to downscale than Iaian, Bug God, Royal Ripper, etc, but we removed them.
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well he struggled a little to rip him in half and it took a few panels to do so, and it was accomplished through LS rather than just a single strike
but also, the difference between tank top master and ugly is gonna be equal to the difference between gums and ugly
I just think you're underestimating how much stronger pre-vomit ugly was, and somewhat underestimating how much effort it took to tear gums in half
Peak Fubuki downscales from rover
half monster garou downscales from rover
darkshine upscales from half monster garou
So fubuki at her peak is still inferior to darkshine, and it only goes downhill from there
out of curiosity, what one shot chains were you referring to? I'm not intending to scale sonic or post g4 genos from peak fubuki's value if that's what you're getting at
It was still undeniably damaging him heavily and causing him to melt and regen
Also wdym bang scaling, I'm confused on that part.
He does not have metal bat's fighting spirit, and he has not shown garou's insane stamina and accelerated development feats. I don't know what you're getting at here. You can't rule it as an invalid argument just because some other characters in the verse have ridiculous stamina and have better AD.
not sure what you mean by this either, but whatever, it's not really one of your main points anyways.
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How in God’s name did you get from 6-C to 7-A+, this is absolutely downscaling abuse.
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the gap between High 7-A+ and 7-A is actually small enough to where you could just downscale twice
I think baseline high 7-A and baseline 6-C is like under 4 times going from what I remember off the top of my head
I know it would normally look bad but having the calc being near baseline 6-C puts the verse in a unique situation where we can literally just go from 6-C to high 7-A+ to high 7-A
although actually I forgot about the gap between 7-A+ and high 7-A
so instead it would have to be the traditional "at most high 7-A" rather than 7-A+
my apologies
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wait no
7-A+ is only 5 times less than baseline high 7-A, I miscalculated the difference
so it's really subjective if we would go with the "at most high 7-A" or just 7-A+ here
7-A+ is only 5 times less than baseline high 7-A, I miscalculated the difference
so it's really subjective if we would go with the "at most high 7-A" or just 7-A+ here
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You're forgetting that Gums really had the opportunity to swallow and severely harm him at all. It really took no time after digestion.
Even it that's true (it's not, because that's still not rip in half level), my example of Bang while just using Abandonment (not AB) being able to kick Fuhrer's ass still holds up.
Darkshine > Bang normally, so VFU > base/abandonment Bang.
Cool, but Fubuki at her peak >>>>> Do-S/Fubuki.
Also, your scaling chain wouldn't even suggest that Darkshine > Peak Fubuki (which isn't even a point that I brought up).
No.
I mean Darkshine can almost one-shot half-monster, VFU can get one-shot by Bang, weaker Fuhrer can one-shot Sweet Mask, Sweet Mask can-one-shot Do-S.
That's not what I said, I just said that damaging him doesn't even necessarily make him weaker, especially since the acid had become part of his body to the point where its intensity grew as his inferiority did.
I mean what I said.
Royal Ripper had much better reason to scale to High 7-A characters than Do-S did, but we agreed not to scale them.
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He hit gums with enough force to **** him up this bad and explode the top of his head
most of the blood in this page is literally coming from gums himself, who clearly was not doing very severe damage to ugly when chewing him
even the blood coming from his mouth lines up with him barfing blood moments before
actually base bang is scaling to the same AP as darkshine, just not really his durability
6-C AB bang > High 7-A+ Base PD Garou ~ Bomb = Base Bang
And
Base Bang= Rover AP > High 7-A Half monster garou < High 7-A+ Darkshine
Peak fubuki downscales from rover
Darkshine upscales from half monster garou who also downscales from rover
Darkshine High 7-A+ for one shotting half monster garou
High 7-A+ VFU can get one shot by AB bang who is 6-C, which lines up with him being equal to 6-C garou
Amai mask scales from a high 7-A fubuki, and ugly is high 7-A+ for one shotting him
do-s got one shot but was also able to harm him so it's tricky but with the current scaling she'd just be at most high 7-A or 7-A+ depending on what we go with
I'm not seeing the contradiction here
That's nice, but it was still melting him regardless and he was still regenerating from it, it's not something you can deny
there are clearly some parts left over that aren't acid, such as that eyeball. The fact that he doesn't have liquid intangibility shows this anyways.
If you are being constantly destroyed by an acid increasing in power over time and having to counteract it with regen, then I think it was most likely damaging him and lowering his durability.
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the standards regarding this are like, not easy to find at all. From what my understanding is, on a case by case basis if the value is close enough to baseline of the + then it's allowed
for future reference I'd like to know a source for that rule
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You can see blood dripping downwards and splattering onto his teeth, so that's completely false.
That's not quite true, and would still prove my point anyway.
Peak Fubuki, who's >>> Fubuki and Do-S. That's the point I'm trying to make.
The contradiction here is that the multitude of one-shotting that goes on between these characters. You can't deny it simply by rejigging the scaling.
Fubuki doesn't scale to Sweet Mask normally (she definitely scales above him at her peak, though), that's the point. He literally crushed Do-S' skull.
I can deny that it weakens him, certainly.
Also, where was he regenerating from it? All he needs is protein so he doesn't fall apart, and that's only shown to be referring to the acid.
How would it lower his durability if his skin is made of the acid that grows more powerful with inferiority? Like, maybe it'd weaken what's leftover from his body, but feats-wise he's factually stronger than before because his body has been replaced by something that grows more powerful anyway.
This is like saying that Robocop is weaker than before because he was mutilated.
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If you're referring to out discussion on discord, that's not what I meant.
What I said was that you downscaling doesn't work in the way you were doing it at the time. "6-C to at most 6-C to at least High 7-A+ etc." and that a High 7-A+ character can clash with a 6-C character, especially when they're shown as weaker in a drawn out fight, so downscaling them to at most 6-C would be unnecessary.
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No I think it came up in regards to 8-B jojo shenanigans
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Honestly, there's no actual rule on it to my knowledge. It's just the product of numerous discussions. But the powerscaling page expresses a similar sentiment.
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“It is possible for a character who is depicted as vastly superior to another in a statistic to be placed in a tier above the other, given that the other character is close to the the next tier. However, this ultimately needs to be decided through case-by-case analysis.”
The closest thing to an official rule is that there is no official rule I guess, it’s all case by case.
Honestly the wiki having tier borders to begin with kinda is a hinderance to all this, since Garou being a one shot above a high 7-A+ character in this context would only make him like 2 times stronger, but also that’s kinda what it has to be due to how small the high 7-A borders are
I don’t entirely agree with it being that way either and feel the gaps should be larger but I also don’t know a better option. Like, would I just have to arbitrarily downscale from 6-C to baseline high 7-A? Idk, but generally when making this scaling chain bs having to deal with “gap should be larger” stuff is kinda valid but it’s like whatever, it’s either this or nothing, and this is way closer to being true than nothing at all is.
To an extent this goes for literally all kinds of scaling on the wiki where standards can be a little restrictive in ways that they have no business being.
The closest thing to an official rule is that there is no official rule I guess, it’s all case by case.
Honestly the wiki having tier borders to begin with kinda is a hinderance to all this, since Garou being a one shot above a high 7-A+ character in this context would only make him like 2 times stronger, but also that’s kinda what it has to be due to how small the high 7-A borders are
I don’t entirely agree with it being that way either and feel the gaps should be larger but I also don’t know a better option. Like, would I just have to arbitrarily downscale from 6-C to baseline high 7-A? Idk, but generally when making this scaling chain bs having to deal with “gap should be larger” stuff is kinda valid but it’s like whatever, it’s either this or nothing, and this is way closer to being true than nothing at all is.
To an extent this goes for literally all kinds of scaling on the wiki where standards can be a little restrictive in ways that they have no business being.
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