STRONGEST One-Punch Man Discussion Thread!

[ByAsura]

He already was already that superior to gums, considering he pulverized tank top master who gums struggled with greatly and was relatively evenly matched with in their two struggles against eachother. In fact the currently accepted scaling already shows that fuhrer ugly was very much superior to gums.

Not to the point of ripping him in half, which is something he could only do after getting stronger with insecurity, as he was more insecure than ever.

yes he matched darkshine, who is just superior to pre-spiral half monster garou, which makes him high 7-A+
hence the high 7-A+ < 6-C scaling chain

Which is fine, just don't downscale Fubuki who's one-shot chains below even that.

And his body being the acid isn't true, considering it was clearly melting him.

His body was, for the most part, acid, to the point where he vomits it.

As for this point, I don't even feel I have to address it because he's physically stronger via Bang scaling.

Also, the fact that the acid gained his abilities in the first place speaks for itself.

The acid is a part of him, sure, but that doesn't really mean it wasn't damaging him.

There's lots of characters who still get stronger in spite or even because of this kind of stuff, so I don't see this as a valid argument.

Sorry, but this isn't the case.
I said, do-s would be 7-A+, not high 7-A
so the gap between bang and do-s is even bigger than that.
I know that I've been doing a lot of annoying downscaling recently but in this case I really believe that it's valid.

My point is not to downscale them at all. So it's really immaterial.

Do-S and co have even less reason to downscale than Iaian, Bug God, Royal Ripper, etc, but we removed them.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Not to the point of ripping him in half, which is something he could only do after getting stronger with insecurity, as he was more insecure than ever.

well he struggled a little to rip him in half and it took a few panels to do so, and it was accomplished through LS rather than just a single strike
but also, the difference between tank top master and ugly is gonna be equal to the difference between gums and ugly
I just think you're underestimating how much stronger pre-vomit ugly was, and somewhat underestimating how much effort it took to tear gums in half

Which is fine, just don't downscale Fubuki who's one-shot chains below even that.

Peak Fubuki downscales from rover
half monster garou downscales from rover
darkshine upscales from half monster garou
So fubuki at her peak is still inferior to darkshine, and it only goes downhill from there
out of curiosity, what one shot chains were you referring to? I'm not intending to scale sonic or post g4 genos from peak fubuki's value if that's what you're getting at

His body was, for the most part, acid, to the point where he vomits it.

It was still undeniably damaging him heavily and causing him to melt and regen

As for this point, I don't even feel I have to address it because he's physically stronger via Bang scaling.

Also wdym bang scaling, I'm confused on that part.

There's lots of characters who still get stronger in spite or even because of this kind of stuff, so I don't see this as a valid argument.

He does not have metal bat's fighting spirit, and he has not shown garou's insane stamina and accelerated development feats. I don't know what you're getting at here. You can't rule it as an invalid argument just because some other characters in the verse have ridiculous stamina and have better AD.

Do-S and co have even less reason to downscale than Iaian, Bug God, Royal Ripper, etc, but we removed them.

not sure what you mean by this either, but whatever, it's not really one of your main points anyways.

 

[LordTracer]

Sorry, but this isn't the case.
I said, do-s would be 7-A+, not high 7-A
so the gap between bang and do-s is even bigger than that.
I know that I've been doing a lot of annoying downscaling recently but in this case I really believe that it's valid.

How in God’s name did you get from 6-C to 7-A+, this is absolutely downscaling abuse.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

How in God’s name did you get from 6-C to 7-A+, this is absolutely downscaling abuse.

the gap between High 7-A+ and 7-A is actually small enough to where you could just downscale twice
I think baseline high 7-A and baseline 6-C is like under 4 times going from what I remember off the top of my head
I know it would normally look bad but having the calc being near baseline 6-C puts the verse in a unique situation where we can literally just go from 6-C to high 7-A+ to high 7-A
although actually I forgot about the gap between 7-A+ and high 7-A
so instead it would have to be the traditional "at most high 7-A" rather than 7-A+
my apologies

 

[ZillertheBucko]

wait no
7-A+ is only 5 times less than baseline high 7-A, I miscalculated the difference
so it's really subjective if we would go with the "at most high 7-A" or just 7-A+ here

 

[ByAsura]

well he struggled a little to rip him in half and it took a few panels to do so, and it was accomplished through LS rather than just a single strike

You're forgetting that Gums really had the opportunity to swallow and severely harm him at all. It really took no time after digestion.

but also, the difference between tank top master and ugly is gonna be equal to the difference between gums and ugly
I just think you're underestimating how much stronger pre-vomit ugly was, and somewhat underestimating how much effort it took to tear gums in half

Also wdym bang scaling, I'm confused on that part.

Even it that's true (it's not, because that's still not rip in half level), my example of Bang while just using Abandonment (not AB) being able to kick Fuhrer's ass still holds up.

Darkshine > Bang normally, so VFU > base/abandonment Bang.

Peak Fubuki downscales from rover
half monster garou downscales from rover
darkshine upscales from half monster garou
So fubuki at her peak is still inferior to darkshine, and it only goes downhill from there

Cool, but Fubuki at her peak >>>>> Do-S/Fubuki.

Also, your scaling chain wouldn't even suggest that Darkshine > Peak Fubuki (which isn't even a point that I brought up).

out of curiosity, what one shot chains were you referring to? I'm not intending to scale sonic or post g4 genos from peak fubuki's value if that's what you're getting at

No.

I mean Darkshine can almost one-shot half-monster, VFU can get one-shot by Bang, weaker Fuhrer can one-shot Sweet Mask, Sweet Mask can-one-shot Do-S.

He does not have metal bat's fighting spirit, and he has not shown garou's insane stamina and accelerated development feats. I don't know what you're getting at here. You can't rule it as an invalid argument just because some other characters in the verse have ridiculous stamina and have better AD.

That's not what I said, I just said that damaging him doesn't even necessarily make him weaker, especially since the acid had become part of his body to the point where its intensity grew as his inferiority did.

not sure what you mean by this either, but whatever, it's not really one of your main points anyways.

I mean what I said.

Royal Ripper had much better reason to scale to High 7-A characters than Do-S did, but we agreed not to scale them.

 

[ByAsura]

On another note, you can't actually downscale tiers unless something's baseline (which means 6-C to High 7-A+ is fine, in this case).

So downscaling from 6-C to 7-A+ and such isn't allowed.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

You're forgetting that Gums really had the opportunity to swallow and severely harm him at all.

He hit gums with enough force to **** him up this bad and explode the top of his head
most of the blood in this page is literally coming from gums himself, who clearly was not doing very severe damage to ugly when chewing him
even the blood coming from his mouth lines up with him barfing blood moments before

Even it that's true (it's not), my example of Bang while just using Abandonment (not AB) being able to kick Fuhrer's ass still holds up.

Darkshine > Bang normally, so VFU > base/abandonment Bang.

actually base bang is scaling to the same AP as darkshine, just not really his durability
6-C AB bang > High 7-A+ Base PD Garou ~ Bomb = Base Bang
And
Base Bang= Rover AP > High 7-A Half monster garou < High 7-A+ Darkshine

Cool, but Fubuki at her peak >>>>> Do-S/Fubuki.

Also, your scaling chain wouldn't even suggest that Darkshine > Peak Fubuki (which isn't even a point that I brought up).

Peak fubuki downscales from rover
Darkshine upscales from half monster garou who also downscales from rover

I mean Darkshine can almost one-shot half-monster, VFU can get one-shot by Bang, weaker Fuhrer can one-shot Sweet Mask, Sweet Mask can-one-shot Do-S.

Darkshine High 7-A+ for one shotting half monster garou
High 7-A+ VFU can get one shot by AB bang who is 6-C, which lines up with him being equal to 6-C garou
Amai mask scales from a high 7-A fubuki, and ugly is high 7-A+ for one shotting him
do-s got one shot but was also able to harm him so it's tricky but with the current scaling she'd just be at most high 7-A or 7-A+ depending on what we go with
I'm not seeing the contradiction here

That's not what I said, I just said that damaging him doesn't even necessarily make him weaker, especially since the acid had become part of his body to the point where its intensity grew as his inferiority did.

That's nice, but it was still melting him regardless and he was still regenerating from it, it's not something you can deny
there are clearly some parts left over that aren't acid, such as that eyeball. The fact that he doesn't have liquid intangibility shows this anyways.
If you are being constantly destroyed by an acid increasing in power over time and having to counteract it with regen, then I think it was most likely damaging him and lowering his durability.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

On another note, you can't actually downscale tiers unless something's baseline (which means 6-C to High 7-A+ is fine, in this case).

So downscaling from 6-C to 7-A+ and such isn't allowed.

the standards regarding this are like, not easy to find at all. From what my understanding is, on a case by case basis if the value is close enough to baseline of the + then it's allowed
for future reference I'd like to know a source for that rule

 

[ByAsura]

most of the blood in this page is literally coming from gums himself, who clearly was not doing very severe damage to ugly when chewing him

You can see blood dripping downwards and splattering onto his teeth, so that's completely false.

actually base bang is scaling to the same AP as darkshine, just not really his durability
6-C AB bang > High 7-A+ Base PD Garou ~ Bomb = Base Bang
And
Base Bang= Rover AP > High 7-A Half monster garou < High 7-A+ Darkshine

That's not quite true, and would still prove my point anyway.

Peak fubuki downscales from rover

Darkshine upscales from half monster garou who also downscales from rover

Peak Fubuki, who's >>> Fubuki and Do-S. That's the point I'm trying to make.

Darkshine High 7-A+ for one shotting half monster garou

High 7-A+ VFU can get one shot by AB bang who is 6-C, which lines up with him being equal to 6-C garou
Amai mask scales from a high 7-A fubuki, and ugly is high 7-A+ for one shotting him
do-s got one shot but was also able to harm him so it's tricky but with the current scaling she'd just be at most high 7-A or 7-A+ depending on what we go with

The contradiction here is that the multitude of one-shotting that goes on between these characters. You can't deny it simply by rejigging the scaling.

Fubuki doesn't scale to Sweet Mask normally (she definitely scales above him at her peak, though), that's the point. He literally crushed Do-S' skull.

That's nice, but it was still melting him regardless and he was still regenerating from it, it's not something you can deny

I can deny that it weakens him, certainly.

Also, where was he regenerating from it? All he needs is protein so he doesn't fall apart, and that's only shown to be referring to the acid.

there are clearly some parts left over that aren't acid, such as that eyeball. The fact that he doesn't have liquid intangibility shows this anyways.
If you are being constantly destroyed by an acid increasing in power over time and having to counteract it with regen, then I think it was most likely damaging him and lowering his durability.

How would it lower his durability if his skin is made of the acid that grows more powerful with inferiority? Like, maybe it'd weaken what's leftover from his body, but feats-wise he's factually stronger than before because his body has been replaced by something that grows more powerful anyway.

This is like saying that Robocop is weaker than before because he was mutilated.

 

[Kachon123]

what my understanding is, on a case by case basis if the value is close enough to baseline of the + then it's allowed

If you're referring to out discussion on discord, that's not what I meant.

What I said was that you downscaling doesn't work in the way you were doing it at the time. "6-C to at most 6-C to at least High 7-A+ etc." and that a High 7-A+ character can clash with a 6-C character, especially when they're shown as weaker in a drawn out fight, so downscaling them to at most 6-C would be unnecessary.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

If you're referring to out discussion on discord, that's not what I meant.

No I think it came up in regards to 8-B jojo shenanigans

 

[ByAsura]

the standards regarding this are like, not easy to find at all. From what my understanding is, on a case by case basis if the value is close enough to baseline of the + then it's allowed
for future reference I'd like to know a source for that rule

Honestly, there's no actual rule on it to my knowledge. It's just the product of numerous discussions. But the powerscaling page expresses a similar sentiment.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

“It is possible for a character who is depicted as vastly superior to another in a statistic to be placed in a tier above the other, given that the other character is close to the the next tier. However, this ultimately needs to be decided through case-by-case analysis.”
The closest thing to an official rule is that there is no official rule I guess, it’s all case by case.
Honestly the wiki having tier borders to begin with kinda is a hinderance to all this, since Garou being a one shot above a high 7-A+ character in this context would only make him like 2 times stronger, but also that’s kinda what it has to be due to how small the high 7-A borders are
I don’t entirely agree with it being that way either and feel the gaps should be larger but I also don’t know a better option. Like, would I just have to arbitrarily downscale from 6-C to baseline high 7-A? Idk, but generally when making this scaling chain bs having to deal with “gap should be larger” stuff is kinda valid but it’s like whatever, it’s either this or nothing, and this is way closer to being true than nothing at all is.
To an extent this goes for literally all kinds of scaling on the wiki where standards can be a little restrictive in ways that they have no business being.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

This is why it’s always good to go outside the wiki sometimes and use the ratio of 75% facts 25% headcanon and narrative scaling to fill in the gaps.

 

[ByAsura]

It's even more restrictive for upscaling.

Jotaro at his strongest is leagues upon leagues above 8 tons of TNT, to the point where he one-shots a character way above that level. But we don't upscale him to 11 tons of TNT.

Similarly, I spent a frankly unnecessary amount of time trying to convince people to give Tatsumaki a likely Small Planet level by virtue of being 33% stronger than Moon level+ Orochi. Tats, fyi, twisted PsykoOrochi into oblivion.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Jotaro’s case is unique because if he actually did get 8-B it’d be a downgrade
we basically treat him as being able to throw hands with like Homelander tiers but if he were scaling exactly to 11 tons rather than upscaling insanely high above 8 then he would be objectively weaker than a 12 tons character
So sometimes upscaling is actually best left alone for that reason, it can actually be a blessing to be massively above slightly below baseline than to be baseline.

 

[theultimate5105]

It's even more restrictive for upscaling.

Jotaro at his strongest is leagues upon leagues above 8 tons of TNT, to the point where he one-shots a character way above that level. But we don't upscale him to 11 tons of TNT.

Similarly, I spent a frankly unnecessary amount of time trying to convince people to give Tatsumaki a likely Small Planet level by virtue of being 33% stronger than Moon level+ Orochi. Tats, fyi, twisted PsykoOrochi into oblivion.

There are much more insane examples
like Naruto had a scaling chain of One Shots above 400 exatons (which the feat itself was done passively) while still remaining moon+

 

[ByAsura]

Yeah, but Naruto is terrible. So it's deserved.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Almost a real fight form Boros solos Narutoes

 

[LordTracer]

Yeah, but Naruto is terrible. So it's deserved.

As one of the main people who revised Naruto… I agree completely, that verse sucks lmao

 

[ZillertheBucko]

immortal snail vs the entire verse
10-C, snail speed, but has all immortality types (with high godly regen)
How far does it get in each threat level / hero rank

 

[Epiccheev]

immortal snail vs the entire verse
10-C, snail speed, but has all immortality types (with high godly regen)
How far does it get in each threat level / hero rank

Can't they like, just incap it by putting it inside a jar or something?
If not then Pig God just eats it and it wishes it never existed.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Can't they like, just incap it by putting it inside a jar or something?
If not then Pig God just eats it and it wishes it never existed.

type 6 immortality, the snail could possess another snail and escape the jar
It would snail up into pig god’s brain and eat away at his brain cells, or just outlast him.
Snail fodderizes pig god, who’s next?

 

[ByAsura]

me. i don't got brain cells to eat

 

[Tural2004]

I asked this a while ago but didn't get an answer. Asking again just in case. Does anyone have the link of the tweet where Murata says that the laws of universe don't work on Saitama?

 

[YUGOLEDIABOLIQUE]

I asked this a while ago but didn't get an answer. Asking again just in case. Does anyone have the link of the tweet where Murata says that the laws of universe don't work on Saitama?

are you talking about this one?
btw, Murata was talking a lot about the structure of the universe. Subject that fascinates him

 

[Alexander]

are you talking about this one?
btw, Murata was talking a lot about the structure of the universe. Subject that fascinates him

Wait...this means that murata...no i don't have ideas

 

[ZillertheBucko]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/garou-vs-the-monster-king.144559/#post-5369617 ongoing versus thread (that desperately needs people who have actually read opm or have read the profiles)
https://vsbattles.com/threads/new-year-new-metal-knight.147057/ ongoing metal knight crt

https://vsbattles.com/threads/zombieman-speed-upgrade.147324/

And a ZombieMan thread

 

[NikHelton]

Stop, its real?

 

[Alexander]

Stop, its real?

That is real,not only because now the tn is not .
But also because saitama still acts in a weird way

 

[NikHelton]

Oh, shit, here we go again...

 

[Tural2004]

are you talking about this one?
btw, Murata was talking a lot about the structure of the universe. Subject that fascinates him

Yeap, thanks a lot!

 

[Alexander]

Yeap, thanks a lot!

Wait,that tells alot,because that are the dialogue(simply)Say by psykos when she sees god.
She says that god is the structures of the universe and the same looks like the human brain.

 

[Coomandar]

who is the entity that blessed tatsumaki, saitama and blast their powers

 

[Coomandar]

 

[ZillertheBucko]

who is the entity that blessed tatsumaki, saitama and blast their powers

Tatsumaki is not on blast’s level, let alone saitama.

 

[Alexander]

Please no

 

[Epiccheev]

who is the entity that blessed tatsumaki, saitama and blast their powers

Yusuke Murata

 

[Coomandar]

Tatsumaki is not on blast’s level, let alone saitama

who the heck said that????
its simple as 1+1 they’re are the main obstacles in god's way, so why would him give them power