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STRONGEST One-Punch Man Discussion Thread!

ByAsura said:
Not to the point of ripping him in half, which is something he could only do after getting stronger with insecurity, as he was more insecure than ever.
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well he struggled a little to rip him in half and it took a few panels to do so, and it was accomplished through LS rather than just a single strike
but also, the difference between tank top master and ugly is gonna be equal to the difference between gums and ugly
I just think you're underestimating how much stronger pre-vomit ugly was, and somewhat underestimating how much effort it took to tear gums in half
ByAsura said:
Which is fine, just don't downscale Fubuki who's one-shot chains below even that.
Click to expand...
Peak Fubuki downscales from rover
half monster garou downscales from rover
darkshine upscales from half monster garou
So fubuki at her peak is still inferior to darkshine, and it only goes downhill from there
out of curiosity, what one shot chains were you referring to? I'm not intending to scale sonic or post g4 genos from peak fubuki's value if that's what you're getting at
ByAsura said:
His body was, for the most part, acid, to the point where he vomits it.
Click to expand...
It was still undeniably damaging him heavily and causing him to melt and regen
ByAsura said:
As for this point, I don't even feel I have to address it because he's physically stronger via Bang scaling.
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Also wdym bang scaling, I'm confused on that part.
ByAsura said:
There's lots of characters who still get stronger in spite or even because of this kind of stuff, so I don't see this as a valid argument.
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He does not have metal bat's fighting spirit, and he has not shown garou's insane stamina and accelerated development feats. I don't know what you're getting at here. You can't rule it as an invalid argument just because some other characters in the verse have ridiculous stamina and have better AD.
ByAsura said:
Do-S and co have even less reason to downscale than Iaian, Bug God, Royal Ripper, etc, but we removed them.
Click to expand...
not sure what you mean by this either, but whatever, it's not really one of your main points anyways.
 
ZillertheBucko said:
Sorry, but this isn't the case.
I said, do-s would be 7-A+, not high 7-A
so the gap between bang and do-s is even bigger than that.
I know that I've been doing a lot of annoying downscaling recently but in this case I really believe that it's valid.
Click to expand...
How in God’s name did you get from 6-C to 7-A+, this is absolutely downscaling abuse.
 
LordTracer said:
How in God’s name did you get from 6-C to 7-A+, this is absolutely downscaling abuse.
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the gap between High 7-A+ and 7-A is actually small enough to where you could just downscale twice
I think baseline high 7-A and baseline 6-C is like under 4 times going from what I remember off the top of my head
I know it would normally look bad but having the calc being near baseline 6-C puts the verse in a unique situation where we can literally just go from 6-C to high 7-A+ to high 7-A
although actually I forgot about the gap between 7-A+ and high 7-A
so instead it would have to be the traditional "at most high 7-A" rather than 7-A+
my apologies
 
wait no
7-A+ is only 5 times less than baseline high 7-A, I miscalculated the difference
so it's really subjective if we would go with the "at most high 7-A" or just 7-A+ here
 
ZillertheBucko said:
well he struggled a little to rip him in half and it took a few panels to do so, and it was accomplished through LS rather than just a single strike
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You're forgetting that Gums really had the opportunity to swallow and severely harm him at all. It really took no time after digestion.
ZillertheBucko said:
but also, the difference between tank top master and ugly is gonna be equal to the difference between gums and ugly
I just think you're underestimating how much stronger pre-vomit ugly was, and somewhat underestimating how much effort it took to tear gums in half
Click to expand...
ZillertheBucko said:
Also wdym bang scaling, I'm confused on that part.
Click to expand...
Even it that's true (it's not, because that's still not rip in half level), my example of Bang while just using Abandonment (not AB) being able to kick Fuhrer's ass still holds up.

Darkshine > Bang normally, so VFU > base/abandonment Bang.
ZillertheBucko said:
Peak Fubuki downscales from rover
half monster garou downscales from rover
darkshine upscales from half monster garou
So fubuki at her peak is still inferior to darkshine, and it only goes downhill from there
Click to expand...
Cool, but Fubuki at her peak >>>>> Do-S/Fubuki.

Also, your scaling chain wouldn't even suggest that Darkshine > Peak Fubuki (which isn't even a point that I brought up).
ZillertheBucko said:
out of curiosity, what one shot chains were you referring to? I'm not intending to scale sonic or post g4 genos from peak fubuki's value if that's what you're getting at
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No.

I mean Darkshine can almost one-shot half-monster, VFU can get one-shot by Bang, weaker Fuhrer can one-shot Sweet Mask, Sweet Mask can-one-shot Do-S.
ZillertheBucko said:
He does not have metal bat's fighting spirit, and he has not shown garou's insane stamina and accelerated development feats. I don't know what you're getting at here. You can't rule it as an invalid argument just because some other characters in the verse have ridiculous stamina and have better AD.
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That's not what I said, I just said that damaging him doesn't even necessarily make him weaker, especially since the acid had become part of his body to the point where its intensity grew as his inferiority did.
ZillertheBucko said:
not sure what you mean by this either, but whatever, it's not really one of your main points anyways.
Click to expand...
I mean what I said.

Royal Ripper had much better reason to scale to High 7-A characters than Do-S did, but we agreed not to scale them.
 
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ByAsura said:
You're forgetting that Gums really had the opportunity to swallow and severely harm him at all.
Click to expand...
He hit gums with enough force to **** him up this bad and explode the top of his head
most of the blood in this page is literally coming from gums himself, who clearly was not doing very severe damage to ugly when chewing him
even the blood coming from his mouth lines up with him barfing blood moments before
ByAsura said:
Even it that's true (it's not), my example of Bang while just using Abandonment (not AB) being able to kick Fuhrer's ass still holds up.

Darkshine > Bang normally, so VFU > base/abandonment Bang.
Click to expand...
actually base bang is scaling to the same AP as darkshine, just not really his durability
6-C AB bang > High 7-A+ Base PD Garou ~ Bomb = Base Bang
And
Base Bang= Rover AP > High 7-A Half monster garou < High 7-A+ Darkshine
ByAsura said:
Cool, but Fubuki at her peak >>>>> Do-S/Fubuki.

Also, your scaling chain wouldn't even suggest that Darkshine > Peak Fubuki (which isn't even a point that I brought up).
Click to expand...
Peak fubuki downscales from rover
Darkshine upscales from half monster garou who also downscales from rover
ByAsura said:
I mean Darkshine can almost one-shot half-monster, VFU can get one-shot by Bang, weaker Fuhrer can one-shot Sweet Mask, Sweet Mask can-one-shot Do-S.
Click to expand...
Darkshine High 7-A+ for one shotting half monster garou
High 7-A+ VFU can get one shot by AB bang who is 6-C, which lines up with him being equal to 6-C garou
Amai mask scales from a high 7-A fubuki, and ugly is high 7-A+ for one shotting him
do-s got one shot but was also able to harm him so it's tricky but with the current scaling she'd just be at most high 7-A or 7-A+ depending on what we go with
I'm not seeing the contradiction here
ByAsura said:
That's not what I said, I just said that damaging him doesn't even necessarily make him weaker, especially since the acid had become part of his body to the point where its intensity grew as his inferiority did.
Click to expand...
That's nice, but it was still melting him regardless and he was still regenerating from it, it's not something you can deny
there are clearly some parts left over that aren't acid, such as that eyeball. The fact that he doesn't have liquid intangibility shows this anyways.
If you are being constantly destroyed by an acid increasing in power over time and having to counteract it with regen, then I think it was most likely damaging him and lowering his durability.
 
ByAsura said:
On another note, you can't actually downscale tiers unless something's baseline (which means 6-C to High 7-A+ is fine, in this case).

So downscaling from 6-C to 7-A+ and such isn't allowed.
Click to expand...
the standards regarding this are like, not easy to find at all. From what my understanding is, on a case by case basis if the value is close enough to baseline of the + then it's allowed
for future reference I'd like to know a source for that rule
 
ZillertheBucko said:
most of the blood in this page is literally coming from gums himself, who clearly was not doing very severe damage to ugly when chewing him
Click to expand...
You can see blood dripping downwards and splattering onto his teeth, so that's completely false.
ZillertheBucko said:
actually base bang is scaling to the same AP as darkshine, just not really his durability
6-C AB bang > High 7-A+ Base PD Garou ~ Bomb = Base Bang
And
Base Bang= Rover AP > High 7-A Half monster garou < High 7-A+ Darkshine
Click to expand...
That's not quite true, and would still prove my point anyway.
ZillertheBucko said:
Peak fubuki downscales from rover

Darkshine upscales from half monster garou who also downscales from rover
Click to expand...
Peak Fubuki, who's >>> Fubuki and Do-S. That's the point I'm trying to make.
ZillertheBucko said:
Darkshine High 7-A+ for one shotting half monster garou

High 7-A+ VFU can get one shot by AB bang who is 6-C, which lines up with him being equal to 6-C garou
Amai mask scales from a high 7-A fubuki, and ugly is high 7-A+ for one shotting him
do-s got one shot but was also able to harm him so it's tricky but with the current scaling she'd just be at most high 7-A or 7-A+ depending on what we go with
Click to expand...
The contradiction here is that the multitude of one-shotting that goes on between these characters. You can't deny it simply by rejigging the scaling.

Fubuki doesn't scale to Sweet Mask normally (she definitely scales above him at her peak, though), that's the point. He literally crushed Do-S' skull.
ZillertheBucko said:
That's nice, but it was still melting him regardless and he was still regenerating from it, it's not something you can deny
Click to expand...
I can deny that it weakens him, certainly.

Also, where was he regenerating from it? All he needs is protein so he doesn't fall apart, and that's only shown to be referring to the acid.
ZillertheBucko said:
there are clearly some parts left over that aren't acid, such as that eyeball. The fact that he doesn't have liquid intangibility shows this anyways.
If you are being constantly destroyed by an acid increasing in power over time and having to counteract it with regen, then I think it was most likely damaging him and lowering his durability.
Click to expand...
How would it lower his durability if his skin is made of the acid that grows more powerful with inferiority? Like, maybe it'd weaken what's leftover from his body, but feats-wise he's factually stronger than before because his body has been replaced by something that grows more powerful anyway.

This is like saying that Robocop is weaker than before because he was mutilated.
 
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ZillertheBucko said:
what my understanding is, on a case by case basis if the value is close enough to baseline of the + then it's allowed
Click to expand...
If you're referring to out discussion on discord, that's not what I meant.

What I said was that you downscaling doesn't work in the way you were doing it at the time. "6-C to at most 6-C to at least High 7-A+ etc." and that a High 7-A+ character can clash with a 6-C character, especially when they're shown as weaker in a drawn out fight, so downscaling them to at most 6-C would be unnecessary.
 
ZillertheBucko said:
the standards regarding this are like, not easy to find at all. From what my understanding is, on a case by case basis if the value is close enough to baseline of the + then it's allowed
for future reference I'd like to know a source for that rule
Click to expand...
Honestly, there's no actual rule on it to my knowledge. It's just the product of numerous discussions. But the powerscaling page expresses a similar sentiment.
 
“It is possible for a character who is depicted as vastly superior to another in a statistic to be placed in a tier above the other, given that the other character is close to the the next tier. However, this ultimately needs to be decided through case-by-case analysis.”
The closest thing to an official rule is that there is no official rule I guess, it’s all case by case.
Honestly the wiki having tier borders to begin with kinda is a hinderance to all this, since Garou being a one shot above a high 7-A+ character in this context would only make him like 2 times stronger, but also that’s kinda what it has to be due to how small the high 7-A borders are
I don’t entirely agree with it being that way either and feel the gaps should be larger but I also don’t know a better option. Like, would I just have to arbitrarily downscale from 6-C to baseline high 7-A? Idk, but generally when making this scaling chain bs having to deal with “gap should be larger” stuff is kinda valid but it’s like whatever, it’s either this or nothing, and this is way closer to being true than nothing at all is.
To an extent this goes for literally all kinds of scaling on the wiki where standards can be a little restrictive in ways that they have no business being.
 
This is why it’s always good to go outside the wiki sometimes and use the ratio of 75% facts 25% headcanon and narrative scaling to fill in the gaps.
 
It's even more restrictive for upscaling.

Jotaro at his strongest is leagues upon leagues above 8 tons of TNT, to the point where he one-shots a character way above that level. But we don't upscale him to 11 tons of TNT.

Similarly, I spent a frankly unnecessary amount of time trying to convince people to give Tatsumaki a likely Small Planet level by virtue of being 33% stronger than Moon level+ Orochi. Tats, fyi, twisted PsykoOrochi into oblivion.
 
Jotaro’s case is unique because if he actually did get 8-B it’d be a downgrade
we basically treat him as being able to throw hands with like Homelander tiers but if he were scaling exactly to 11 tons rather than upscaling insanely high above 8 then he would be objectively weaker than a 12 tons character
So sometimes upscaling is actually best left alone for that reason, it can actually be a blessing to be massively above slightly below baseline than to be baseline.
 
ByAsura said:
It's even more restrictive for upscaling.

Jotaro at his strongest is leagues upon leagues above 8 tons of TNT, to the point where he one-shots a character way above that level. But we don't upscale him to 11 tons of TNT.

Similarly, I spent a frankly unnecessary amount of time trying to convince people to give Tatsumaki a likely Small Planet level by virtue of being 33% stronger than Moon level+ Orochi. Tats, fyi, twisted PsykoOrochi into oblivion.
Click to expand...
There are much more insane examples
like Naruto had a scaling chain of One Shots above 400 exatons (which the feat itself was done passively) while still remaining moon+
 
Yeah, but Naruto is terrible. So it's deserved.
large.jpg
 
immortal snail vs the entire verse
10-C, snail speed, but has all immortality types (with high godly regen)
How far does it get in each threat level / hero rank
 
ZillertheBucko said:
immortal snail vs the entire verse
10-C, snail speed, but has all immortality types (with high godly regen)
How far does it get in each threat level / hero rank
Click to expand...
Can't they like, just incap it by putting it inside a jar or something?
If not then Pig God just eats it and it wishes it never existed.
 
Epiccheev said:
Can't they like, just incap it by putting it inside a jar or something?
If not then Pig God just eats it and it wishes it never existed.
Click to expand...
type 6 immortality, the snail could possess another snail and escape the jar
It would snail up into pig god’s brain and eat away at his brain cells, or just outlast him.
Snail fodderizes pig god, who’s next?
 
I asked this a while ago but didn't get an answer. Asking again just in case. Does anyone have the link of the tweet where Murata says that the laws of universe don't work on Saitama?
 
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