STRONGEST One-Punch Man Discussion Thread!

[ZillertheBucko]

Even if you assume Bang was going all out, there’s still 0 reason for Bang to scale to the Island level, Bomb downscaling upgrades literally everyone to Island level.

It’s not an assumption jfc, he quite literally states “I AN GOING ALL OUT”
if there is no reason then prove it, because the scaling speaks for itself. Also not everyone would be island level, most of the lesser characters would be high 7-A+, it’s called a downscaling chain.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

I think you only downscale to the previous tier if the calc value is almost baseline, Garou's value is not baseline

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

I think you only downscale to the previous tier if the calc value is almost baseline, Garou's value is not baseline

I'm pretty sure 5.4 Gigatons is close enough. That's why Hellfire Flame and Gale Wind downscale to High 7-A+

 

[TimmyTurnero]

It’s not an assumption jfc, he quite literally states “I AN GOING ALL OUT”

No point in pointing it out, literally has no relevance in the argument and I literally steelmaned you to proceed with your argument. Waste of time.

if there is no reason then prove it, because the scaling speaks for itself. Also not everyone would be island level, most of the lesser characters would be high 7-A+, it’s called a downscaling chain.

What? You’re the one asserting that he’s Island level without presenting even a shade of evidence that supports the claim. It’s your burden to prove he would scale to Garou. This doesn’t scale to Bang, this scales to WSRCF.
I’m against Garou even scaling to TTM as a suppressed TTM was rag dolling him and destroying him with his attacks, Garou only beat him by reflecting his own attack at him, hitting him with a barrage of his redirected energy and hitting pressure points. I don’t see why Garou should scale to that value and for the same reason Bang shouldn’t scale to Garou.

Downscaling in this case is quite Impossible.

You’re asserting that this chain is correct:

Garou approaching his completed technique=Island level>Garou’s sky ripping fist>>>> one shot with a mere graze>AB Bang>=<AB Garou>Base Garou>>>Bomb (could shatter his legs)>=< all of the A class= Island level.

The scaling chain is contradictory, illogical, repetitive, and contradicts the very rules of the wiki. It would be narratively impossible for Bomb or Bang to scale to this value in their base states and you refusing to acknowledge that fact is astonishing to me.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

I'm pretty sure 5.4 Gigatons is close enough. That's why Hellfire Flame and Gale Wind downscale to High 7-A+

They should scale to the full value.

Flashy could endure literal thousands of punches from PS and Garou before he took any notable damage, while Galewind and Hellfire flame could bruise him, cause him to spit blood, and somewhat overpower him in a couple of punches.
If it was up to me I’d put GW and HF above Ps.

 

[ByAsura]

I’m against Garou even scaling to TTM as a suppressed TTM was rag dolling him and destroying him with his attacks, Garou only beat him by reflecting his own attack at him, hitting him with a barrage of his redirected energy and hitting pressure points. I don’t see why Garou should scale to that value and for the same reason Bang shouldn’t scale to Garou.

Not gonna lie, I think that's a terrible translation, and have heard different ones that are more akin to expressions (i.e return ten-fold).

We see Garou normally punching him in the manga and anime, and even in that very same diagram.

I'll look into the raws tomorrow.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Not gonna lie, I think that's a terrible translation, and have heard different ones that are more akin to expressions (i.e return ten-fold).

It may be the translation issue but most of the one’s I’ve seen says this and I’m 99% sure viz says this as well.

We see Garou normally punching him in the manga and anime, and even in that very same diagram.

The only time he punches him normally was with the final punch, but TTM was already damaged a lot from being punched in the face several times with power twice his own.

I'll look into the raws tomorrow.

That could help.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

What? You’re the one asserting that he’s Island level without presenting even a shade of evidence that supports the claim. It’s your burden to prove he would scale to Garou. This doesn’t scale to Bang, this scales to WSRCF.
I’m against Garou even scaling to TTM as a suppressed TTM was rag dolling him and destroying him with his attacks, Garou only beat him by reflecting his own attack at him, hitting him with a barrage of his redirected energy and hitting pressure points. I don’t see why Garou should scale to that value and for the same reason Bang shouldn’t scale to Garou.

This is the goofiest shit I’ve ever heard
Either way, any water stream rock smashing fist techniques scale to his durability automatically, which scales to his AP. Water stream’s damage deflection doesn’t even apply here since garou’s attack just grazed him, while it’s shown in Garou vs tank top master that he needed to actually take the direct hit. Either way, the reflected energy doesn’t even apply past the first hit he did against tank top master lmao, when he’s unleashing the barrage against him it’s a bunch of separate moves.

You’re asserting that this chain is correct:

Garou approaching his completed technique=Island level>Garou’s sky ripping fist>>>> one shot with a mere graze>AB Bang>=<AB Garou>Base Garou>>>Bomb (could shatter his legs)>=< all of the A class= Island level.

This shit is wild
Garou while still comparable to Bang was stated to be capable of shattering every bone in his body with shockwaves if he landed a direct hit, so no shit that garou potentially broke ONE of bomb’s legs. And if it’s even broken is still questionable, I could make that position myself, and the only panel we see before bomb is on the ground is him being punched in the face while he is still standing up. Regardless, shockwaves scale above the user’s AP, probably in a manner similar to vibration manipulation or something.
The one shotting with a graze is shockwaves only, so this scaling chain of yours is already stupid. Base Garou scales slightly below AB bang, but can still take hits from and flash equally with full power bang, which means that bomb scales from base garou.

Post Sperm Garou>6-C>Hellfire Wave Garou> AB bang>Base Garou>Bomb>Pre-Molt centipede
and so on.

 

[ByAsura]

It may be the translation issue but most of the one’s I’ve seen says this and I’m 99% sure viz says this as well.

At this point, VIZ saying it makes me think it's even less reliable. Though they actually have the ability to understand Japanese, unlike me.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

AB bang = at most 6-C
Bomb and base bang = at least high 7-A
Elder centipede = at least high 7-A pre molt, at most 6-C post molt
Fubuki = At least high 7-A, but doesn’t scale to sub relativistic cause bomb and base Garou blitzed her
Do-s and amai mask scaling from fubuki, speed o sound sonic scales too if I remember correctly?
Etc

 

[Damage3245]

There is no need for Bomb, base Bang or Fubuki to be High 7-A.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

This is the goofiest shit I’ve ever heard
Either way, any water stream rock smashing fist techniques scale to his durability automatically, which scales to his AP. Water stream’s damage deflection doesn’t even apply here since garou’s attack just grazed him, while it’s shown in Garou vs tank top master that he needed to actually take the direct hit. Either way, the reflected energy doesn’t even apply past the first hit he did against tank top master lmao, when he’s unleashing the barrage against him it’s a bunch of separate moves.

Calling my argument goofy doesn’t dismiss the fact that you have to prove Bang scales to Garou.
WSRSF scales to his durability only when attacking with his own strength, TTM could easily wound Garou and cause him to split blood with his attacks, yet TTM redirected energy caused no harm to himself despite it being 2x stronger than TTM which could already harm Garou. That is the goofiest rebutal to something clearly addressed in a manga series I’ve ever seen. A poor attempt to dismiss facts to assert a personal agenda.
Water stream does apply here as Bang is literally redirecting countless punches before delivering an attack of his own. He is using that redirected energy against him. It’s that simple, it’s also outrageous to believe Garou is a pulverization difference higher than Bang yet bang can harm Garou. That belief alone is contradictory to what’s represented in the story.
I can agree that there isn’t enough collective evidence to assume the barrage is as powerful as the initial redirected energy, but Garou could not harm TTM outside of pressure points and the first strike which destroyed his face. Regardless, he should not scale.

This shit is wild
Garou while still comparable to Bang was stated to be capable of shattering every bone in his body with shockwaves if he landed a direct hit, so no shit that garou potentially broke ONE of bomb’s legs. And if it’s even broken is still questionable, I could make that position myself, and the only panel we see before bomb is on the ground is him being punched in the face while he is still standing up. Regardless, shockwaves scale above the user’s AP, probably in a manner similar to vibration manipulation or something.
The one shotting with a graze is shockwaves only, so this scaling chain of yours is already stupid. Base Garou scales slightly below AB bang, but can still take hits from and flash equally with full power bang, which means that bomb scales from base garou.

Can we not ignore arguments and actually provide a refutation against what was stated? You consistently call shit insane or outrageous and then refuse to explain why that is the case.
Garou could only one shot Bang while using a technique which specializes in sending shockwaves through the body. Garou didn’t have access to this technique against Bomb, Garou broke his legs with his base strength. Simple as that.
The final strike we see against Bomb was an elbow to his cheek, matter of fact, it’s the only strike we see against Bomb. Despite this, the next time we see Bomb he has wounds all over his face, arms and even a broken leg which clearly has open wounds on it. It’s not a questionable matter, it’s an undeniable fact. Garou is a bone shattering difference above Bomb after growing in their fight. Going from slightly weaker than Bomb to vastly above him in a matter of collisions.

My scaling chain is based on your idea of the character’s strength. So if you believe that is ridiculous that only reflects onto your arguments against me, lmao.
The one shotting with the shockwaves is vastly inferior to even the heart exploding fist.
Bang could redirect countless punches from the Sky Ripping Fist and take no visible damage from the shockwaves being emitted from them, yet took what he considers to be a lot of damage from the shockwaves release from Garou’s Exploding Heart release.
One specializes in long ranged shockwaves while one produces short ranged shockwaves which are much stronger than the Sky Ripping Fist.
So regardless of what you believe, Garou grew so much in power than his normal attacks (him combining all his techniques into one as described against FF and PS) would be several one shotting differences above Bang. His new base strength being what is considered Island level.

Post Sperm Garou>6-C>Hellfire Wave Garou> AB bang>Base Garou>Bomb>Pre-Molt centipede
and so on.

Garou=Island level>>>>one shot difference between Bang lmao he doesn’t and shouldn’t downscale

 

[TimmyTurnero]

At this point, VIZ saying it makes me think it's even less reliable. Though they actually have the ability to understand Japanese, unlike me.

Lmao, but yeah, given the nature of the technique, Bang harming Garou shouldn’t scale to himself.

 

[ByAsura]

If you disagree with Bang scaling, you'll need to make a CRT. It's already accepted.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Ik, the only reason I’ve been arguing this much in the general thread was to persuade other members into agreeing with my arguments and eliminating all opposition so when the time comes it’s as smooth as butter.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

WSRSF scales to his durability only when attacking with his own strength, TTM could easily wound Garou and cause him to split blood with his attacks, yet TTM redirected energy caused no harm to himself despite it being 2x stronger than TTM which could already harm Garou. That is the goofiest rebutal to something clearly addressed in a manga series I’ve ever seen. A poor attempt to dismiss facts to assert a personal agenda.
Water stream does apply here as Bang is literally redirecting countless punches before delivering an attack of his own. He is using that redirected energy against him.

water stream rock smashing fist doesn't increase durability
realistically the bones in your hands wouldn't break from even tripling your power to hit someone stronger than you.
if you're gonna say that it increases durability despite the fact that it's not even a transformation or anything, and does not increase any statistics.
also tank top master hit him at full force and he got ragdolled sure, but he landed on his feet and just got a nosebleed from it

I can agree that there isn’t enough collective evidence to assume the barrage is as powerful as the initial redirected energy, but Garou could not harm TTM outside of pressure points and the first strike which destroyed his face. Regardless, he should not scale.

ok bro

Garou could only one shot Bang while using a technique which specializes in sending shockwaves through the body. Garou didn’t have access to this technique against Bomb, Garou broke his legs with his base strength. Simple as that.

The technique that does the shockwaves is literally bomb's technique
which is uhhh
yeah
also it's worth noting that we don't know the means through which is broke his bones since it happened offscreen. Even humans can break the legs of other humans without really being 9-C, soo
although personally him having broken bones is questionable, I myself am able to get into basically the position bomb's legs were in without dislocating anything, but it doesn't change anything either way

The one shotting with the shockwaves is vastly inferior to even the heart exploding fist.
Bang could redirect countless punches from the Sky Ripping Fist and take no visible damage from the shockwaves being emitted from them, yet took what he considers to be a lot of damage from the shockwaves release from Garou’s Exploding Heart release.

the damage from shockwaves was adding up throughout the entire fight so uh
regardless of if you like it or not, bang was taking damage
the fact that he says "adding up" means that it was from more than just the one exploding heart release fist he threw
and uh, the shockwaves only get stronger after he starts using sky ripping fist, so
against, bang has to literally deflect every single attack in this fight or else he'd just die, because clearly shockwaves scale above AP
this is shown earlier in the series when garou tears apart royal ripper anyways, it's not so hard to understand

Garou=Island level>>>>one shot difference between Bang lmao he doesn’t and shouldn’t downscale

even if we take your headcanon that water stream rock smashing fist increases durability, it changes nothing, because garou's shockwaves would still one shot WSRSF AB bang who was comparable to garou's physicals when using wsrsf. It's that simple
water stream rock smashing fist uses the opponent's AP against them? Cool, I guess that means that you're suggesting that garou's physicals are a one shot above his physicals then. Either that or you accept that shockwaves scale above the user's AP.

 

[Kachon123]

I don't understand why it's so hard to comment in aCRT when you disagree with it. It's annoying when you spend months of thinking when creating a CRT just for no one to disagree with it until after it's applied.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

I don't understand why it's so hard to comment in aCRT when you disagree with it. It's annoying when you spend months of thinking when creating a CRT just for no one to disagree with it until after it's applied.

I’m not active here and I rarely check the profiles. I just know I opened the chat and seen members spitting blasphemy so I had to address it. Ill make a crt in a couple minutes

 

[Kachon123]

Go ahead

 

[ZillertheBucko]

the revision process is basically like congress, you propose a crt here and then we filibuster it out in crts before the mods sign it into law
I think it's best to debate crts in this thread before making them, to save people of some effort and frustration

 

[Kachon123]

the revision process is basically like congress, you propose a crt here and then we filibuster it out in crts before the mods sign it into law
I think it's best to debate crts in this thread before making them, to save people of some effort and frustration

We already discussed this here, it was put in a CRT, debated on, agreed on, approved by several staff members, and applied to the profiles.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

anyways some more scaling
assuming bomb's high 7-A+ goes through
peak fubuki is at least high 7-A+, which means regular fubuki just downscales to high 7-A+, making sonic at least high 7-A+ for scaling above fubuki's idea of saitama's power after he defeated her (but she wasn't at peak, since she didn't exert herself to the point of bleeding during her fight against saitama, and sonic being at most 6-C doesn't work because of genos)
human gale wind and hellfire flame would be at at most 6-C, and of course the monster forms should probably just be 6-C for damaging flashy flash
darkshine also was undamaged by base bang in a sparring match, so he would have at at most 6-C durability and at least high 7-A+ AP
A weakened and off guard crybaby darkshine got one shot by golden sperm and survived, so golden sperm should just be at most 6-C, and platinum sperm at a solid 6-C
half monster garou downscales from rover's AP, so he'd just be high 7-A+
royal ripper is scaling to half monster garou cause he stabbed him, the shockwaves garou used to shred him of course scale above his own AP, meaning royal ripper is high 7-A+
Human garou might be at most high 7-A+? He forced royal ripper and bug god to exert themselves, and even took a direct hit from bug god
genos scales to sonic's at least high 7-A+, but human garou basically just deflected and evaded as many attacks as possible from genos so it's not like there's contradictory scaling there either
tank top master would be at most high 7-A+ as well, and by extension so would gums
this makes furher ugly high 7-A+, and vomited would be high 7-A+
watchdog man becomes at least high 7-A+ for stomping human garou while holding back
nyan scales to royal ripper and bug god, making him high 7-A+, and drive knight becomes high 7-A+
pig god also at most high 7-A+
and I'm too lazy to think of the rest right now

We already discussed this here, it was put in a CRT, debated on, agreed on, approved by several staff members, and applied to the profiles.

sorry, I was missing context as to what the discussion was about

 

[Kachon123]

sorry, I was missing context as to what the discussion was about

6-C Bang.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

6-C Bang.

yeah that's most likely not going to be reverted lol

 

[Kachon123]

regular fubuki just downscales to high 7-A+

Uhh, no. regular Fubuki would still be Low 7-B.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Uhh, no. regular Fubuki would still be Low 7-B.

the way it's on her profile is really weird because it makes her peak seem like a different form entirely, when that's basically just her at her fullest power
logically she should just downscale from it in "base". Either way she scales to do-s, who downscales from amai mask, who scales to ugly who is hypothetically gonna be high 7-A+ anyways, so there's that too

 

[Kachon123]

logically she should just downscale from it in "base"

No, that's not how downscaling works. You keep abusing downscaling when thats just not how you use it.

Either way she scales to do-s, who downscales from amai mask, who scales to ugly who is hypothetically gonna be high 7-A+ anyways

Why would Fuhrer Ugly scale to High 7-A+?

 

[Therefir]

Ziller is insane.

Post Darkshine Garou and Human Garou being so close in power is nuts, he one-shotted Vomited Fuhrer Ugly who clashed with Darkshine who in turn one-shotted a stronger version of Bug God who fought Human Garou.

Royal Ripper got one-shotted by Half-Monster Garou anyways, his durability has no business scaling from Garou, whom he could only hurt with a stabbing attack.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Why would Fuhrer Ugly scale to High 7-A+?

Brutalizing gums and tank top master, the latter of which has the striking strength of genos
Also I should add that do-S also scales to royal ripper, who of course compares to half monster Garou and is at least high 7-A that way

Ziller is insane.

Thanks, that’s very productive

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Post Darkshine Garou and Human Garou being so close in power is nuts, he one-shotted Vomited Fuhrer Ugly who clashed with Darkshine who in turn one-shotted a stronger version of Bug God who fought Human Garou.

Post darkshine Garou is 6-C, human Garou is downscaling from high 7-A+, that’s significantly more than a one shot difference, considering for example one shotting an at most 7-C makes you 7-C, and one shotting 7-C makes you at least 7-C, and in the absence of higher value feats likely higher and so on

Royal Ripper got one-shotted by Half-Monster Garou anyways, his durability has no business scaling from Garou, whom he could only hurt with a stabbing attack.

The technique he used to kill royal ripper scales above his AP as blatantly shown by bang vs Garou and bomb vs Garou. I went in depth into this a bit earlier but essentially Garou can break the bones of those who are still able to harm him with a punch by using the shockwaves.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I’m also not gonna use it as an exact 1:1 comparison but just to visualize it a little, a 7 times difference in vs threads isn’t considered enough for a one shot
which means that potentially, going from at most 7-C to at least 7-C could be a 14 times difference
it’s not exact but just generally, the gap between at most high 7-A+ and at most 6-C is bigger than it sounds, thought since it’s downscaling to high 7-A we also have the advantage of a quantifiable gap rather than just going lower and lower into 6-C, so

 

[Ourosboros]

Post darkshine Garou is 6-C, human Garou is downscaling from high 7-A+, that’s significantly more than a one shot difference, considering for example one shotting an at most 7-C makes you 7-C, and one shotting 7-C makes you at least 7-C, and in the absence of higher value feats likely higher and so on

The technique he used to kill royal ripper scales above his AP as blatantly shown by bang vs Garou and bomb vs Garou. I went in depth into this a bit earlier but essentially Garou can break the bones of those who are still able to harm him with a punch by using the shockwaves.

Wait how is human Garou downscaling from high 7-A+? Was there a calc or something?

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Wait how is human Garou downscaling from high 7-A+? Was there a calc or something?

going from at most 6-C to at least high 7-A+, which would be the baseline of the +
there's no calc, but occassionally we just downscale characters to the lower tier, like how we currently go from low 7-B to high 7-C+

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I do realize that I need to work out some specifics, so the crt for all this stuff won't be made for a while since I haven't even put together the verse-wide scaling chain
but I'm pretty sure if everything is justified perfectly then there'll be absolutely no circular or innacurate scaling

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Why would Fuhrer Ugly scale to High 7-A+?

Tbh, if we change Bomb's tier to High 7-A+, Fuhrer would upscale, yeah.

Fuhrer Ugly=Darkshine's AP>Half-Monster Garou>Base Gyoro Gyoro>Rover>Bomb

(BASE Gyoro Gyoro being above Rover is based on her justification on the profile right now, which may be a bit iffy, yeah, but it is how it is. Garou's durability would upscale anyway, though)

 

[LordTracer]

peak fubuki is at least high 7-A+, which means regular fubuki just downscales to high 7-A+

This is just not how downscaling works.

 

[Cryo123]

Like I said, I saw the wrong part of the image when I said that.

It's definitely broken.

I missed that somehow lmao.

He only cracked Garou’s with damage reflection,

Nope. He backfisted him out of a neutral position. The hit he takes is grazing at best/doesn't move his body like what would be needed for him to use his martial arts to redirect it. even if he had, he would downscale to half the 5.4 gigaton value in AP and scale to the full value in AP as his fist wasn't crushed from the attack.

Fubuki = At least high 7-A, but doesn’t scale to sub relativistic cause bomb and base Garou blitzed her

Why?

Nah, they were clearly holding back against a monster that survived a barrage of attacks from nearly all S-Class heroes, just to see if holding back is the way to defeat him

Idk, he held back against a monster capable of annihilating Iaian's arm in 1 hit and instantly regenerate.

 

[Kachon123]

Fuhrer Ugly=Darkshine's AP

That's Vomitted Fuhrer Ugly

 

[Cryo123]

Brutalizing gums and tank top master, the latter of which has the striking strength of genos

Like Human Garou era Genos.

Is there any way in which Genos scales to High 7A+ or 6C in base? I feel like there is, but I only have a few half baked arguments rn.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

This is just not how downscaling works.

maybe not, but also the DO-S royal ripper amai mask furher ugly gums ttm thing so, whatever