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Makima vs Alucard - azontr vs Gin's Car - 3/1/7 (Grace Enacted)

Actually I will choose incon not because it is incon in this match, because I want to see it happened XD
 
ImmortalDread said:
Show us his wincons
Click to expand...
Mind hax & absorbtion. If he absorbs her (done via blood manipulation where he doesn't even need to touch her.) her entire existence is assimilated into Alucard. Meaning all those souls that she got from the Prime Minister of Japan turn into Alucard's upon him absorbing her.


Mind hax & absorbtion for Alucard are his win-cons. And she can't effect him with her own mind hax due to his layered resistances.
 
LordGinSama said:
Mind hax & absorbtion. If he absorbs her (done via blood manipulation where he doesn't even need to touch her.) her entire existence is assimilated into Alucard. Meaning all those souls that she got from the Prime Minister of Japan turn into Alucard's upon him absorbing her.


Mind hax & absorbtion for Alucard are his win-cons. And she can't effect him with her own mind hax due to his layered resistances.
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wouldnt that be like, literally every japanese citizen or do i not know what exactly her deal is (ive only seen the anime so far)
 
It_is_i_wyatt said:
wouldnt that be like, literally every japanese citizen or do i not know what exactly her deal is (ive only seen the anime so far)
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Yeah, all of those souls would become Alucard's upon him absorbing her blood. And like Denji, the attack would be considered as damage.
 
Anyway, there's a minor misconception about how Makima's revivals work here. She doesn't have the souls of the people of Japan as a "stock" inside of herself like Alucard has souls inside of himself.

The contract she has with the Prime Minister transfers her "deaths" to a random Japanese citizen. But nothing ever indicates Makima's contract dictates that she literally absorbs the souls of every citizen of Japan.

So if Alucard absorbed her, he wouldn't be taking all of her theoretical "lives". To do that, he'd have to kill and absorb the souls of every Japanese citizen individually.
 
azontr said:
Anyway, there's a minor misconception about how Makima's revivals work here. She doesn't have the souls of the people of Japan as a "stock" inside of herself like Alucard has souls inside of himself.

The contract she has with the Prime Minister transfers her "deaths" to a random Japanese citizen. But nothing ever indicates Makima's contract dictates that she literally absorbs the souls of every citizen of Japan.

So if Alucard absorbed her, he wouldn't be taking all of her theoretical "lives". To do that, he'd have to kill and absorb the souls of every Japanese citizen individually.
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So what is Makima's win con?
 
azontr said:
Anyway, there's a minor misconception about how Makima's revivals work here. She doesn't have the souls of the people of Japan as a "stock" inside of herself like Alucard has souls inside of himself.

The contract she has with the Prime Minister transfers her "deaths" to a random Japanese citizen. But nothing ever indicates Makima's contract dictates that she literally absorbs the souls of every citizen of Japan.

So if Alucard absorbed her, he wouldn't be taking all of her theoretical "lives". To do that, he'd have to kill and absorb the souls of every Japanese citizen individually.
Click to expand...
Alucard's Absorbtion works on a physical, spiritual, mental and possibly even abstract level given that he Absorbed Schrodinger albeit with consequences.


Her "deaths." that would transfer onto the citizens of Japan would also count as souls unless souls don't outright exist within CSM. She's still linked to the citizens of japan, essentially if Alucard absorbs her then he'd be in turn absorbing the lives of the citizens of Japan since she'd be assimilated into his very existence.
 
LordGinSama said:
Alucard's Absorbtion works on a physical, spiritual, mental and possibly even abstract level given that he Absorbed Schrodinger albeit with consequences.


Her "deaths." that would transfer onto the citizens of Japan would also count as souls unless souls don't outright exist within CSM. She's still linked to the citizens of japan, essentially if Alucard absorbs her then he'd be in turn absorbing the lives of the citizens of Japan since she'd be assimilated into his very existence.
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You'd have to proof he can absorb souls through Makima even though she literally doesn't have them on her lel. The level on which his absorption works is irrelevant if Makima quite literally does not have the souls to absorb outside of her own.

Souls in CSM have literally never been mentioned to be a thing, but, unfortunately, the wiki assumes every verse has souls unless stated otherwise, which is ******* dumb, but still.
 
Anyway, Alucard probably wins with his layered mind hax or some shit.

Not like he really needs to absorb anything when he can just hypnotize her IMO.
 
I'm saying Makima.

Her haxes and AP (considering her key being used allows the 8-A it seems - even without it, High 8-C is still better than normal 8-C) vastly outweighs Alucard, so she could likely BFR him into orbit and keep going. Even if he survives, I feel her finger bangs are more reliable and quicker than aiming a firearm. If anything, her BS regen feels superior since Alucard would have to keep killing her when in comparison, if he uses Level 0 (which is likely), he'd be gambling bringing everything to the forefront... against someone who can make an army thanks to the Puppet Devil to counter his army by mere touch and make it spread. Superior BFR via summoning and Spider, precognition via FUTURE IS BEST (even if limited), and even can stay in the air to play keepaway

Considering Alucard rarely ever starts with hypnosis as well (hell, I only remember him doing it once to a bell boy whereas Makima could have access to Cosmo's ability of Babel), I don't see it factoring in. Add in Devil abilities listed in her bio includes Snake, Ghost, and even powerful fighters like Quanxi (whose best feature IS basically blitzing and taking out crowds from a distance and short range), Sword, and Angel - who as we saw in the Gun Devil fight, can likely create a clusterfuck of weapons on top of Alucard and his probable horde. That and Curse is pretty much a good '**** you' as it basically instant kills after three hits so at that point its a debate on if it instant kills Alucard right there since hes known to allow people to wail on him at base. Even taking in his final fights with Anderson and Walter where he uses more tricks, Makima's Devils would be just as good eye and ears for her as they'd be beating Alucard down.

Basically
Higher AP
Just as reliable haxes (especially BFR, teleportation, Curse, ways to move around)
Finger guns feels more reliable than aiming super guns
Devil Minions would rip through Alucard's army and even have greater crowd control and their own abilities to keep him on his toes despite his own haxes
 
azontr said:
You'd have to proof he can absorb souls through Makima even though she literally doesn't have them on her lel. The level on which his absorption works is irrelevant if Makima quite literally does not have the souls to absorb outside of her own.
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If the Japanese citizens have blood then in turn they'd have souls. Alucard doesn't only stop at souls, he absorbs the entire existence of his opponents, body, mind and soul.



All of what you said is irrelevant, Makima doesn't have a valid counter to getting her entire existence absorbed. If a type 1 Abstract couldn't stop themselves from said Absorbtion then Makima isn't either.
Jiangshi1 said:
If anything, her BS regen feels superior since Alucard would have to keep killing her when in comparison, if he uses Level 0 (which is likely),
Click to expand...
You've never read Hellsing. Alucard's last resort is level 0 and that's only applicable to entire armies of comparable opponents who number in the millions. Level 0 is meant for opponents whom possess a numerical advantage, in a 1v1 Level 0 would never come out.
Jiangshi1 said:
Considering Alucard rarely ever starts with hypnosis as well (hell, I only remember him doing it once to a bell boy whereas Makima could have access to Cosmo's ability of Babel), I don't see it factoring in.
Click to expand...
Again false, he opened up with it against the soldiers in Brazil. The Cosmos Devil isn't helping her reverse the effects of layered Mind hax.




Jiangshi1 said:
Basically
Higher AP
Click to expand...
Countered by regeneration and Intangbility.
Jiangshi1 said:
Just as reliable haxes (especially BFR, teleportation, Curse, ways to move around)
Click to expand...
The Curse Devil is irrelevant as it doesn't bypass regen of Low-Hign. BFR is useless as Alucard's very own TK is a higher degree meaning Alucard can stop himself from being ragdolled by Makima's TK.
Jiangshi1 said:
Finger guns feels more reliable than aiming super guns
Devil Minions would rip through Alucard's army and even have greater crowd control and their own abilities to keep him on his toes despite his own haxes
Click to expand...
Read above, Level 0 is literally never coming out in a 1v1 unless he's outnumbered by millions and literally given permission by Integra.




Also passive Fear Hax would like to say hi. Layered Mind hax would like to say hi as well (Alucard isn't an idiot, having hundreds of years of combat experience he'd realize to use it at some point. In character he's used on more than one occasion.)
 
LordGinSama said:
they'd have souls. Alucard doesn't only stop at souls, he absorbs the entire existence of his opponents, body, mind and soul.



All of what you said is irrelevant, Makima doesn't have a valid counter to getting her entire existence absorbed. If a type 1 Abstract couldn't stop themselves from said Absorbtion then Makima isn't either.
Click to expand...
I mean I don't really gaf if its irrelevant or not🤷 I already agreed that Makima loses in like every scenario so I'm not really concerned.
 
Makima's win cons include Cosmos Devil, getting a mob of people to touch Alucard with Angel Devil's powers, and pointing.
 
Also Makima summoning other Devil's is likely to work against her considering Alucard can just absorb them to gain their powers and abilities for himself.



Cosmo Devil is irrelevant due Alucard's layered resistance to Mind Control.



Angel Devil is irrelevant due to Type 1 Immortality.


Pointing / AP is countered by Alucard's low-High regeneration and his very own TK which is higher than Makima's own TK. She tries to pull what she did to Denji then Alucard either counters with his own TK or alternatively opts to use a soul to swap places with him.
 
Cosmos isn't mind manip tho. And if Alucard absorbs Cosmos he likely experiences a Schrodinger 2 since he mentally cannot comprehend the entire universe at once.
 
Sir_Ovens said:
Cosmos isn't mind manip tho.
Click to expand...
It's Mind Manipulation and Information Manipulation, not even the fundamental type of Information Manipulation either. It doesn't help your argument either considering Cosmos doesn't even have a profile here (for whatever reason.)
Sir_Ovens said:
And if Alucard absorbs Cosmos he likely experiences a Schrodinger 2 since he mentally cannot comprehend the entire universe at once.
Click to expand...
Uh yeah no, that's not how Alucard got Schrodingered, Schrodinger caused a direct paradox due to becoming one with Alucard's souls and minds. Information has nothing to do with what happened to Alucard upon absorbing Schrodinger.
 
LordGinSama said:
Cosmos doesn't even have a profile here (for whatever reason.)
Click to expand...
Yeah she does.
vsbattles.fandom.com

Cosmo (Chainsaw Man)

Cosmo (コスモ?) is the Cosmos Fiend (の Uchū no Majin?), and was one of Quanxi's girlfriends and represents the fear of omniscience and gaining knowledge of everything in the universe. On the surface, Cosmo doesn't exhibit many emotions aside from her usual smiling, happy-go-lucky attitude. She...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

@Epiccheev made it.
 
That page should be updated with Devil Physiology. I made that page for a reason.

Anyway Gin's point still doesn't address how Alucard is supposed to withstand the knowledge of everything in the universe all at once. If he absorbs Cosmos he will be incapacitated.
 
It required a type 1 AE to incap Alucard via absorption.



Sir_Ovens said:
Anyway Gin's point still doesn't address how Alucard is supposed to withstand the knowledge of everything in the universe all at once. If he absorbs Cosmos he will be incapacitated.
Click to expand...
Upon assimilation Cosmos would be under his control, her knowledge is irrelevant unless she forces Alucard to experience said knowledge before he absorbs her.



She'd need to pull that off before she gets absorbed.
 
Alucard absorbing her would force Alucard to experience her knowledge. Him needing a Type 1 AE to incapacitate him via absorption has no bearing on that, and I have no idea why you continue bringing it up as if that will allow him to resist Information Manipulation. It's an irrelevant point to begin with.
 
Why are you guys assuming that Alucard would be capable to absorb someone with 8-A ranged attacks so easly
 
Also Alucard can understand the mechanics of Schrodinger's Type 1 Abstract Existence, and giving Cosmos the benefit of the doubt it wouldn't incapacitate Alucard due to the amount of minds Alucard's posses within his stock.



Cosmos attacks Alucard's mind with knowledge and a soul is sacrificed for Alucard to restore himself.
azontr said:
Alucard absorbing her would force Alucard to experience her knowledge.
Click to expand...
No it wouldn't because upon said assimilation she'd become one with his existence. It required a type 1 Abstract paradoxical existence to get around his absorption.
azontr said:
Him needing a Type 1 AE to incapacitate him via absorption has no bearing on that, and I have no idea why you continue bringing it up as if that will allow him to resist Information Manipulation. It's an irrelevant point to begin with.
Click to expand...
It's absolutely not irrelevant, what's irrelevant is the knowledge that would be "forced" onto him. It wouldn't be forced onto Alucard unless it's paradoxical and or Abstract in nature.



Anything that Alucard absorbs is incapable of being used against him due to them becoming one with them. It's similar to how to Devil's Contract is made but a level up, and the only way to bypass said absorption is to have an existence that's similar to that of Schrodinger.
LIFE_OF_KING said:
He needs at very least kill the opponent
Click to expand...
As long as blood is present in some way shape or form then Alucard can absorb it without needing to kill them. Also killing them as never been a requirement, the only requirement is that if there's blood present. Makima's known to construct hall's made of brain matter, and the Cosmos Devil literally has parts of her brain exposed.
 
LordGinSama said:
As long as blood is present in some way shape or form then Alucard can absorb it without needing to kill them. Also killing them as never been a requirement, the only requirement is that if there's blood present.
Click to expand...
All the people absorbed by Alucard during the manga were already dead and/or killed by him
 
3 things to address is that needs to be addressed ASAP because some of yall are acting like the Cosmos Devil is on some Gojo Domain Expansion type of shit.



1: Her knowledge is not infinite in nature, nor is the amount of knowledge she possess anywhere close to "countless."


2: Her form of Information Manipulation would only be type 1, which is literally considered to be a form of mind manipulation, which Alucard is resistant towards.



3: The opponent eventually dies after experiencing said knowledge. Even if it could somehow affect Alucard despite his resistance it would kill him, meaning his Soul-Stock would allow him to recover. This is literally stated.
 
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