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League of Legends: Darkstar & cosmic court revisions

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i've wanted to make this thread for a while now, i'll hopefully be upgrading darkstars & cosmic court champs into uni+ as well as addressing some of the old counter-arguments to this rating

The Upgrade :
now we've got alot of statements that do strongly imply universal+ levels of power.
champion quotes :

"It turns out the scythe was evil and wants to annihilate all reality. Who could've guessed?"

"The entrails of countless realities are shattering in my wake!"

"I've destroyed realities. What threat is this beast?"

"Nobody devours all of existence on my watch! I live in there."

LoR shyvana quote :

"I will rend this universe with sharpened claws and consume the whole of this terrible existence."
note : you gotta pause the video to see it

The Counter Arguments :
1-now the first argument ppl will throw against this revision is that the darkstars dont destroy universes via their own power, instead they feed planets, stars, galaxies etc... to the darkstar god, then that god destroys the universe.
this is infact not true, saying that is a false generalization, only thresh and kha'zix have been stated to feed the darkstar, this should be something execlusive only to them, infact the others have explicitly been stated to erase and destroy stuff via their own power lets check their biographys for proof :

thresh & kha'zix's bios :

A cosmic nightmare who worships the all-consuming Dark Star, Thresh vows to feed the whole of existence to his “god” until all matter, time, and thought are erased. His work will be complete when nothing remains, freeing him to finally leap into the singularity and become one with the end of the universe.

The hunger of the abyss, Kha'Zix is an alien horror whose ceaseless appetite feeds the Dark Star. Appearing before planets like a titanic locust, it devours all it encounters—the power of a hundred thousand stars fueling its evolution into an ever-greater threat.

everyone elses :

Once the right hand of Queen Ashe, Lux embraced the darkness in her heart, answering the mad call of the Dark Star. Finally seeing the truth, she rejects the Cosmic Court, instead serving her own dark ambition to quiet the banal noise of creation. For she now knows her true fate—to reign as Queen of a Dark Court, and rightful master of the Dark Star.

Shaco was once a region of space known for raucous celebration, wiped clean by the Dark Star and reborn into the mocking visage of a jester. His twisted cackling reaches inhabited systems long before he does, provoking visions of destruction, and societal breakdowns that will soon feed his endless hunger.

Once a member of the Cosmic Court, Mordekaiser vanished from known space for an epoch—until now. Reborn and returned from an unknown destruction, Mordekaiser seems bent on unmaking the kingdoms of stars and light he once built. Though he still bears his Cosmic armor, the mind and figure within has been twisted and reforged to know only hatred and destruction.

Spawned from the remnants of a star system crippled by famine, Cho'Gath is driven to feed on any celestial body that crosses his path. These feasts swirl into the twin black holes at his heart—as endless and ageless as his hunger.

Jhin was an interstellar entity, consumed by the Dark Star and given new purpose. Now his ageless mind is infected by visions of omnipotence, and consumed by an insatiable hunger. He scours entire regions of space seemingly on a whim, using the remnants to create bizarre, silent objets d'art.

Karma was a galaxy-spanning civilization dedicated to pacifism and personal enlightenment, unceremoniously erased from reality and reborn as a star-consuming horror. Devouring entire galactic systems, she enforces a dread order upon the cosmos, meditating in the vast oceans of emptiness where once there were stars.

Born out of the remnants of a magnificently advanced system, Orianna serves the Dark Star with meticulous precision. She dances across galaxies in an endlessly horrifying performance, the only witness is the silent trail of destruction left in her wake.

Once a cosmic entity charged with identifying future threats to the cosmos, her hunger for ever greater knowledge drew her into conflict with the Dark Star, which consumed her. Transformed into a mad doomsayer who sees a “true” universe in the ashes of this one, she has become the very end she once feared.

The remnants of a once lush and enormous exo-planet, the Dark Star consumed and reformed the broken cluster of planetary debris into a twisted consciousness, ever pulling others into its orbit, and unleashing oblivion upon all who cross its path.

An interstellar titan containing multitudes within his eldritch mind, Varus serves the all-consuming Dark Star, a dread singularity born in the darkness of deep space. His arrival is a cataclysmic extinction event, erasing entire planetary systems as if they were never there.

As the Dark Star continued on its path across space, it passed through a vibrant system orbiting a supergiant star. Consuming all life and light as it passed , the Dark Star twisted the supergiant into a wrathful corruptant. Thus, Xerath was born—a dark being of malice and annihilation.

A mortal emperor unbound by the destruction of his world, Jarvan's essence has since been reforged by the ageless energies of deep space. His humanity and his people now lost forever, he stands ready to welcome the Dark Star incursion, in the final subjugation of all existence.

notice that execpt for the former 2, no one has been stated to feed the darkstar, while some of them were stated to destroy stuff via their own power (Varus, Cho'Gath, Malphite, Ori etc..)
well now you might thinking, how are any of these direct feats universal in power? they're not, however there's the champion quotes :

"It turns out the scythe was evil and wants to annihilate all reality. Who could've guessed?"

here rhaast states that he intends to destroy all reality and its not via feeding anything to the darkstar, since there's no proof that he does that, as he is in an alternate dimension far away from the darkstar itself.

"The entrails of countless realities are shattering in my wake!"

rhaast now further in the game (since he only says the last quote during his first move) flat out says that he shattered realitys (interpretation could vary here, as the statement sounds multiversal in nature since its refering to the present not the past but i wont go there to avoid controversy).

"Nobody devours all of existence on my watch! I live in there."

"I will rend this universe with sharpened claws and consume the whole of this terrible existence."

now both of these have something to do with devouring existence, but it is probably not the darkstar god that is doing this, to prove that the corruptants could devour stuff without the darkstar, look at the cho'gaths bio, he's been stated to devour stuff via the black hole inside him, not the darkstar, and if you look at shyvana's, she's saying that she would consume existence not the dark star god, again this all proves that they are capable of universal destruction on their own,

"I've destroyed realities. What threat is this beast?"

now to this, you might be wondering why i am including threshs quote to this when i already estabilished he could destroy the universe via feeding the darkstar, well this is because seemingly eveyone from the previous threads on this topic ignores the context of the statement, this is said when thresh is attacking baron nashor, as a result this being a referral to the darkstar destroying universes is very unlikely as thresh here is flat out comparing his own power to that of the barons, why would thresh refer to his "god" destroying something as part of his own power, it wouldnt make any logical sense.

now as i proved the darkstar corruptants dont need the dark star to destroy universes, lets move into the second argument

2- all of these feats have no specific timeframe, therefore they're all overtime thus they wont count as AP.

now even if that is true (which it isnt because it's baseless and relies on the darkstar being fed which i debunked earlier)
this wont affect their AP, all these feats are tier 2 in nature, since they involve universes, realitys, all of existence etc,
so they're still tier 2 no matter if they are done overtime or not.

3-if they could destroy universes then why wont they? they have been consistently stated to destroy solar systems & galaxies, so it wouldnt make sense for them not to destroy the universe in one go

this one is by far the easiest to debunk, because for 1, they already have, refer to rhaast & threshs statement for proof
2, they cant do that in the event horizon universe because there are forces that could stop them, I.E the Cosmic Court


Conclusion :
as far as i see it, darkstar corruptants & the cosmic court should be rated as "At least Low 2-C" for the evidence i provided above and the possibility of them being higher since the "all of existence" statements could be referring to something more than 1 universe as well as rhaasts statement


Agree : Knight, jackpact, mister, rocker, DDM, lightning, gliver, ultima, zencha

Disagree :

Neutral : elizhaa
 
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Ngl, i was pretty disappointed when i see LoL and it's not a verse wide revision

Seem pretty good from what i see, i agree with this.
 
All of what's written in the OP has literally been addressed in the downgrade thread that Monarch made. You wont be able to upgrade anything simply by reiterating the same justifications that were debunked last time, and the number of non-staff users who agree are irrelevant.
 
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All of what's written in the OP has literally been addressed in the downgrade thread that Monarch made. You wont be able to upgrade anything simply by reiterating the same justifications that were debunked last time, and the number of non-staff users who agree are irrelevant.
Actually a bunch of it did not exist when that thread was made because LoR dark stars did not exist at the time.
 
Actually a bunch of it did not exist when that thread was made because LoR dark stars did not exist at the time.
True, but does LoR provide more insights or context behind the Dark Stars/Cosmic Court being above 3-C? Because if not, then this thread is going to get shot down. At least, I'm not reading any from the OP. The OP literally just regurgitated the same statements that were addressed in the Downgrade thread.
 
All of what's written in the OP has literally been addressed in the downgrade thread that Monarch made. You wont be able to upgrade anything simply by reiterating the same justifications that were debunked last time, and the number of non-staff users who agree are irrelevant.
i literally addressed all of his points in the OP

1-now the first argument ppl will throw against this revision is that the darkstars dont destroy universes via their own power, instead they feed planets, stars, galaxies etc... to the darkstar god, then that god destroys the universe.
this's the main argument monarch used for the downgrade and i proved that it's not true and that it's a generalization.
 
this's the main argument monarch used for the downgrade and i proved that it's not true and that it's a generalization.
As I said, the statements themselves that you're using as justifications for debunking Monarch's arguments are the statements that were addressed last time. You're basically just going back in circles. Monarch debunks the statements, you use the statements as a means to debunk Monarch's arguments.

I'm not really seeing anything new from this.
 
well then, try to bring some light onto the matter?
give me proof of other darkstar corruptants feeding the darkstar besides for thresh & kha'zix, because as i see it, that isnt the case and i read all the short stories looking for that too
this is ambition's embrace for example
and it only mentions thresh feeding the darkstar star in fact it implies its something exclusive only to thresh

“Since the Harbinger’s appearance, the Dark Star grows in strength.” Ashe glided between us, looking each of us in the eyes as she passed. “Where we build, he guides the Dark Star to consume. Where we create the possibility of life, and light… he only destroys. For too long, we have watched his actions, tolerating him as, at best, an overzealous hastener of entropy.” She looked directly into my eyes. “Now it has taken one of our own. That cannot stand.”

“So we gather to find and strike this Harbinger down.” Xin Zhao waved his spear, and a trail of glittering nebula bloomed in its wake.

“No.” Ashe continued to hold my gaze. “The Dark Star grows stronger when it devours sources of light. All of us approaching at once could be exactly what Thresh wants.”
 
I see; it seems all of existence would be 2-A, from the other thread that I found.
The main problem with all the "All of Existence" statements is that there's no timeframe to speak of. Hence, the agreed way of determining how they would destroy "all of existence" is by slowly consuming everything inside a universe, and then going on to the next one based on their much more consistent showings and feats. Not necessarily that they could destroy entire universes, or the cosmology as a whole.
 
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The main problem with all the "All of Existence" statements is that there's no timeframe to speak of. Hence, the agreed way of determining how they would destroy "all of existence" is by slowly consuming everything inside a universe, and then going on to the next one based on their much more consistent showings and feats. Not necessarily that they could destroy entire universes, or the cosmology as a whole.
i keep telling you that i disproved that, stop using that argument without addressing my stuff first -_-
 
I see; it seems all of existence would be 2-A, from the other thread that I found.
well if you wanna interpret that "all of existence" means the entire LoL multiverse and if that is accepted as 2-A then i guess they could be 2-A.


im gonna have to look at the evidence for 2-A LoL soon to prove its not some BS weekly left behind
 
i keep telling you that i disproved that, stop using that argument without addressing my stuff first -_-
Yeah, you really didn't. All you said is that feeding the Dark Star is exclusive to Thresh and Kha'Zix, while all others destroy stuff by their own power. The statements themselves still doesn't at all imply they destroy universes in one fell swoop. Again, no timeframe.

"Consume the whole of this terrible existence" or I've destroyed realities" provide no context on their methods, nor any timeframe to speak of. Based entirely on the statements, it's safer to just refer to their much more consistent showings, i.e devouring worlds, stars, galaxies, rather than make extrapolations with little foundations to keep them afloat.
 
Yeah, you really didn't. All you said is that feeding the Dark Star is exclusive to Thresh and Kha'Zix, while all others destroy stuff by their own power. The statements themselves still doesn't at all imply they destroy universes in one fell swoop. Again, no timeframe.

"Consume the whole of this terrible existence" or I've destroyed realities" provide no context on their methods, nor any timeframe to speak of. Based entirely on the statements, it's safer to just refer to their much more consistent showings, i.e devouring worlds, stars, galaxies, rather than make extrapolations with little foundations to keep them afloat.
buddy, if they dont destroy the universe via feeding the darkstar then your argument falls apart, because at that point you're going off of baseless assumptions and we already know they could erase & devour stuff, thats their method of desturction, safe to it applies to universe too, we dont have to do mental gymnastics to figure this shit out, even rhaasts "The entrails of countless realities are shattering in my wake!" statement implies Passive 2-B destuction via EE or just AP
and shyvana's "I will rend this universe with sharpened claws and consume the whole of this terrible existence." again this gives out a method via some sort of absorption, and it doesnt matter how many tier 4/3 feats they have or do,1 tier 2 feat is all takes to be at that rating,

also not to mention, if it's accepted that "devour all of existence" statements are infact referring to the league multiverse(which in ezraels case it probably is) then that would be a 2-A feat which they'll still be at regardless of the timeframe
 
buddy, if they dont destroy the universe via feeding the darkstar then your argument falls apart, because at that point you're going off of baseless assumptions and we already know they could erase & devour stuff, thats their method of desturction, safe to it applies to universe too, we dont have to do mental gymnastics to figure this shit out, even rhaasts "The entrails of countless realities are shattering in my wake!" statement implies Passive 2-B destuction via EE or just AP
Doesn't even remotely work like that. Their statements suggest they devour universes by devouring it from the inside little by little, everything else is purely extrapolations blown out of proportions.

And did you even read Rhaast's line properly? He said the ENTRAILS of countless realities. The innards of those realities are what's shattering. That's still within the confines of tier 3. Not even enough context to assume anything beyond he's passively destroying heavenly bodies.
and shyvana's "I will rend this universe with sharpened claws and consume the whole of this terrible existence." again this gives out a method via some sort of absorption, and it doesnt matter how many tier 4/3 feats they have or do,1 tier 2 feat is all takes to be at that rating,
Again, no substantial evidence of the statement being universal that isn't overblown approximation.
also not to mention, if it's accepted that "devour all of existence" statements are infact referring to the league multiverse(which in ezraels case it probably is) then that would be a 2-A feat which they'll still be at regardless of the timeframe
Ezreal's statement has no timeframe. They devour "All of existence" by slowly consuming everything in a universe, and then moving on to the next universe to be consumed, until everything, as in "all of existence" has been consumed.

You're regurgitating the arguments from those that disagreed in the downgrade thread.
 
Doesn't even remotely work like that. Their statements suggest they devour universes by devouring it from the inside little by little, everything else is purely extrapolations blown out of proportions.
what you're saying is completely baseless. there's no proof that thats the way they destroy universes. and you're suggesting that the entire universe, the entire reality gets destroyed via having its 3D matter destroyed, if they dont feed the darkstar then there's no way they can destroy a universe like that.
And did you even read Rhaast's line properly? He said the ENTRAILS of countless realities. The innards of those realities are what's shattering. That's still within the confines of tier 3. Not even enough context to assume anything beyond he's passively destroying heavenly bodies.
yes i did. what you're suggesting here is very nitpicky you're saying that the statement only refers to an infinitesimal 3D Part of a 4D universe, which is absured
entrails simply means the insides of something, I.E organs & the like, that could mean anything that composes a 4D reality from Physical matter to Space & time and rhaast has shown feats of spatial destruction "The geometry of space bends, and breaks, and bleeds!" quote for example
Again, no substantial evidence of the statement being universal that isn't overblown approximation.
execpt for rending the universe and consuming all of existence
Ezreal's statement has no timeframe. They devour "All of existence" by slowly consuming everything in a universe, and then moving on to the next universe to be consumed, until everything, as in "all of existence" has been consumed.
so they consume a single universe 1 by 1 to destroy an infinite multiverse, makes sense
okay but really, consuming everything in a universe wouldnt destroy it you need to erase space & time for that happen. and again you havent posted anything to back that stuff up,
 
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A friend of mine asked me to post this.

Zoe, the character who can canonically see all of reality due to her celestial powers, flat out confirms that reality has at least 5 spatial dimensions

What they said.
 
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A friend of mine asked me to post this.

Zoe, the character who can canonically see all of reality due to her celestial powers, flat out confirms that reality has at least 5 spatial dimensions

What they said.
just being stated to have 5 Dimensions isnt enough for low 1-C anymore,
and anyway this thread has nothing to do with that
 
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we really need staff evaluation on this thread, could someone tag some staff that might help with this please?
 
It wasn't a Low 1-C proposal from what I recall. Only that 5-D exist. Although, if each and every spatial temporal dimension was uncountable infinity, it be a different story now that it was brought up. I asked them to share what the other "Infinite" or "Upper-dimensonal" statements were there though.

Edit: It was this blog and this one that contained more information.
 
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It wasn't a Low 1-C proposal from what I recall. Only that 5-D exist. Although, if each and every spatial temporal dimension was uncountable infinity, it be a different story now that it was brought up. I asked them to share what the other "Infinite" or "Upper-dimensonal" statements were there though.

Edit: It was this blog and this one that contained more information.
These blogs were both debunked in the last downgrade thread.

Either way, this is not the place to discuss Low 1-C League of Legends. That requires an entirely different thread.
 
^^
can we focus on whats being discussed on the OP please?
if there's anything wrong with the cosmology, we could resolve that in another thread
anyway,i think it makes more sense for them to be 2-A
mainly because of ezreals & rhaasts statement

"Nobody devours all of existence on my watch! I live in there."

this is most certainly referring to the multiverse because Ezreal follows it up with "i line in there"
a bit of context to pulsefire ezreal, he's basically a guy who hopes from timeline to timeline exploring & stealing shit:

Temporal fugitive and time-hopping explorer extraordinaire, Ezreal leaps across disparate realities searching for interesting technology to acquire. He is responsible for countless paradoxes and is currently wanted by the dystopian Remembrancers, who hunt him relentlessly.

this coupled with rhaasts statement should make them scale to the league multiverse IMO, at least "likely 2-A" would suffice
 
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@KnightOfSunlight actually, it's more so there was a lack of more elaborate context at the time. But that can be saved for another thread yes.

Anyway, for the topic at hand and giving my own thoughts this time, I think "likely 2-A" seems okay based on the OP's evaluations.
 
@KnightOfSunlight actually, it's more so there was a lack of more elaborate context at the time. But that can be saved for another thread yes.

Anyway, for the topic at hand and giving my own thoughts this time, I think "likely 2-A" seems okay based on the OP's evaluations.
Hate to be the party pooper, but most if not all of the statements the OP used has been debunked in the downgrade thread. Even the new LoR additions to the lore don't give anything new.

I suggest tagging Monarch himself, as well as the staff that agreed with his analysis on the downgrade thread and see what they have to say
.
 
Again, no timeframe. There's nothing suggesting they devour "all of existence" in a single gulp. They devour universes slowly, that's the more consistent interpretation to consider. Ezreal saying that a corruptant is going to devour "all of existence" doesn't automatically mean he means corruptants can one-shot the multiverse.
this coupled with rhaasts statement should make them scale to the league multiverse IMO, at least "likely 2-A" would suffice
Rhaast destroys the entrails, not the realities themselves. Don't twist the statements to suit your personal interpretations.
 
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Hate to be the party pooper, but most if not all of the statements the OP used has been debunked in the downgrade thread. Even the new LoR additions to the lore don't give anything new.

I suggest tagging Monarch himself, as well as the staff that agreed with his analysis on the downgrade thread and see what they have to see.
Monarch retired
 
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