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Janemba and Super Gogeta Upgrade?

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Golden_Void

VS Battles
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First, SS3 Goku powering up shook the afterlife (with the force of a hurricane if we use Grand Kai's statement) . According to this post, shaking the universe is a multi-galaxy feat. Goku shook hell as well as heaven, both of which are contained inside of the afterlife (which is massive enough to contain muliple of these realms), which he shook as well (at least a universal feat then?). Goku's ki was felt throughout the entire universe in the manga, as it was felt at the kaioshin's realm which resides outside of the universe.
Gokushaker
-Taken from Kanzenshuu -

The Afterlife ÒüéÒü«õ©û/anoyo Translation: that world, the other world, the afterlife Other Names: the Netherworld (Viz), Other World (Funi), the Next Dimension (early Funi), the next world, the world beyond

The afterlife is the world where people go when they die, and where the gods who watch over the living universe reside. Apart from the gods and the dead, the afterlife is also home to the oni, ogre-like monsters of Japanese myth. They are portrayed as the administrators of the afterlife, assisting the judge of the dead, Enma Daio (Great King Enma, aka King Yama), a figure taken from Buddhist and Hindu mythology. Daizenshuu 7 says that Mister Popo and Karin are also beings native to the afterlife, sent to Earth to assist its God. Similar assistants from the afterlife are sent to the gods of each world. In addition, Akkuman's race of devils is from the afterlife (Hell to be exact). According to Goku, time doesn't exist in the afterlife, though it's not clear just what this entails, other than that using Super Saiyan 3 there is easier.


I. Hell

Õ£░þìä/jigoku Translation: hell, the earthly priso Other Names: HFIL, the Home for Infinite Losers (Funi)

Hell is where the dead souls which Enma Daio judges to be evil are sent to. It consists of an extremely vast, rocky plain that takes up the entire lower portion of the afterlife, and is covered by the yellow clouds that surround Enma's palace and the Serpent Road.


Heave

Õñ®Õø¢/tengoku Translation: heaven, the heavenly country Other Names: the Upper World (Viz)

As you might expect, Heaven is where those who Enma Daio judges to be good are allowed to go to. It's a large planet directly above Enma's palace. To reach Heaven, one must ride a special plane that takes off from an airport near Enma's palace (this plane was part of Toriyama's drawing of the afterlife, but only appears in the anime). The place where Goku is shown training for the 25th Tenkaichi Budoukai is identified in the daizenshuu as being Heaven. It's shown as a pleasant, grassy place with round buildings. The sky has odd clouds, and a moon or something is visible at one point (maybe it's Dai-Kaio's planet?). In addition to Goku and Kaio, a dead dog and squid creature are also seen here. Kaio continues to hang out here for the rest of the Boo arc, since his planet was destroyed by Cell. When Dabra dies, Enma decides to send him here, on the logic that he'd be happy to go to Hell (this is mentioned in the manga, though it's only in the anime that we actually get to see Dabra in Heaven).

In the anime, Videl, Bulma, and co. look for Gohan here after being killed by Boo. Heaven is said to be as wide as the entire universe itself, and seems to consist mostly of an immense field of flowers. Videl and the other dead people are shown as looking the same as in life from the waist upward, but with ghostly tails instead of legs, and the standard halo. Dabra is shown as now being ridiculously nice and happy now, to the point that he freaks everyone else out. In GT, Piccolo comes to Heaven after dying in the destruction of Earth, but he purposefully makes Enma send him to Hell to save Goku. Kaio also seems to still be hanging around Heaven at the start of GT (or perhaps Dai-Kaio's planet).

-----------------

[Possible other universal feats]

DBUniverse (SuperExcitingGuides)
DBZ universe globe

Janemba's casual mouth beam seriously damaged Goku who barely tanked it, as well as producing a light that surpassed even the check-in station, which is beyond hell. Related to that, we have Goku and Beerus's fight producing a light that could be seen throughout the universe as well, which is a 4-B feat. Janemba was able to completely decimate Goku and Vegeta at their individual full power.
Also, Janemba's profile says he's Galactic range with reality warping, but with the feats shown, it should be multi-universal, at least universal, since he affected the entirety of the afterlife, as well as the mortal universe (which is why villains appeared there).

There's also previous movie scaling such as Broly's galaxy destruction earlier which Janemba and Goku scales from. Heck, in the Cooler movie the Sun bust was calc'd at multi solar system le
Gogeta 5
vel. There's non-canon Kid Buu destroying earth with a blast radius comparable to a galaxy (could be argued that there's an angle difference), and there's also the fact that he was going to destroy Grand Kai's planet, which is multi-galaxy in size.
Goku states that he could've destroyed Fat Buu if he wanted to, and Vegeta states that at full power, SS3 Goku should be able to destroy Kid Buu.


Buugalaxy



Since Goku had no power increase from when he fought Fat Buu Goku at full power from when he fought Fat Buu would still be strong enough to defeat Kid Buu.
Ss3fp
Buud

Gogeta was able to physically strike Janemba with what seems like a barrage of punches, even though he only flexed his ki. Those attacks negated Janemba's Regenerationn, as he carries that damage to his body until he is killed. His ki also outshined the universe as a fun fact (4-B).

There's also the fact that an interview with Ryo Mito, the producer of Shin Budokai said :

" Janemba is an evil creature that appeared in HIFL. He is the strongest enemy to appear in the Dragon Ball Z anime movies. He possesses overwhelming power and speed and has a variety of special moves at his disposal. He can use his club to create a very sharp sword, which he uses to attack his opponents in the game. He's as powerful in the game as he was in the movie, so he'll be one of the strongest characters in the game. "

"When it comes to game modes, the main mode in Dragon Ball Z: Shin Budokai is called Dragon Road. Dragon Road mode is a multiscenario story mode based on the events in the upcoming DBZ movie, Fusion Rebor. After Buu is defeated and peace returns to the world, evil builds up in HIFL, creating a creature called Janemba. Janemba plays havoc with the order of the world for his own pleasure, resurrecting the dead, twisting time and space, and making copies of strong warriors to fight for him. Goku and his friends call upon many different allies, and even some old enemies, to try to defeat Janemba. The sweeping story, which is centered on Janemba and Pikkon (my favorite!), takes place in both the normal world and the Other World."

Which would mean a 2-C Janemba since he would be equal to his video game counterpart.

Also correct me if I'm wrong, but by using the minimum TNT requirement for universal destruction given in the AP chart , a nuclear blast with that amount of TNT would have values that span massively beyond one universe (after converting 1.699x10^83 tons to 1.699x10^77 megatons)
Bradius


Referencer
Grandkaio
Janembablast
Jblast2
Gokucooked
Uniflash
 
Yeah, I know its crazy. The only thing I feel is a stretch is the interview statements to say the least, but Fusion Reborn has the craziest showings of power up there with BoG and RoF.
 
To think that Super Gogeta ... Might be in a similar league/tier to Zeno... That is the crazy part. The others, while crazy, aren't too farfetched , as that is the anime/non-canon versions . Still, I'd like others to think about this.
 
Uhmm... Would... SS4 Gogeta be effected by this somehow... ? God, if he really is superior to Jamemba Shin Butokai as an Super Saiyajin.. As an Super Saiyajin 4 .... *goes crazy*
 
Yeah that would be really crazy. I think that he would be affected to as GT follow the Anime/Movie Timeline. That would make him at least 3-A since destroying heaven,hell and the mortal universe in Universe 7 would still count as 3-A since no timeline was destroyed. Nevertheless that would definitely make High Tier if not even possibly Top Tier alongside Janemba.
 
I meant if the jamemba is actually equal to this jamemba . According to statments by the game's creator , that Jamemba and the movie jamemba are completely equal. That would quite literally mean Gogeta in the movie would be 2-C ...

@Huesito

Unless they downgrade Shin Budokai's Jamemba to just 3-A ...
 
Super Saiyan God Julian said:
That would make him at least 3-A since destroying heaven,hell and the mortal universe in Universe 7 would still count as 3-A since no timeline was destroyed.
Can you explain that part please?

But yeah, would SS4 Gogeta be affected...........honestly idk. They are the same character, though it would be illogical for SS4 Gogeta to NOT use Soul Punisher on Omega Shenron, though yeah I agree, an SS4 amp on Super Gogeta would make him solo most of super lol.


Just thought about something though, wouldn't Janemba's feats and non-canon Buu's feats make Omega Shenron's statement of destroying the universe over time seem...odd?

This would also scale to Wrath of the Dragon as it's the next movie in the sequence, applying to Ultimate Gohan, kid Trunks/Goten, Vegeta, Goku, and all forms of Majin Buu by extension.
 
It doesnt matter if gogeta destroys a trillion "universes", he would still be 3-A. Why? Thats because gogeta never destroyed the space time of those universes, just the 3D matter within it, so gogeta could destroy a infinite number of universes and be high 3-A at best
 
I know what you meant seed and there is no way they would downgrade Janemba from shin budokai to 3-A. What im saying is that the author statement is a little bogus considering that SB Janemba has actual 2-C feats and that i think that Actual Janemba acording to these feats would be at best 3-A. Besides we cant take these statements seriously as only Akira Toriyama can make such statements. That would be like dimps saying that berrus from xenoverse is equal to canon berrus even though DBS Beerus has no Low 2-C Feats
 
98% sure they're talking about feeling his ki, not the universe shaking. If he is doing it with the force of a hurricane then it is definitely not 3-B.

The fact that other characters are 4-A doesn't help your argument.... Where did you get Cooler's death calced at 4-A? I'm pretty sure he meant powerful as in relatively speaking... The strongest character in movies means that they design him to be the strongest character in game, not character = character.
 
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= Kokoro mo Hitotsu ni suru Fyüjon wa Paw─ü wo Saidaiban made Hikidaseru no da!! Nano de 30 Pun Nai no Tanki Kessen nara Goj─½ta, Chōki-sen nara Bejitto ga Katsu hazu da zo!! = By also merging the two spirits, the fusion has the power to its fullest. Thus, Gogeta would win a short battle, which last less than 30 minutes, while Vegito would win a longer battle. (Obviously since Gogeta would be unfused)


Though Janemba being massively above all forms of Buu proves Gogeta > Vegito anyway. And yeah Gogeta would be 3-A, not 2-C, via feats.
 
Besides if Gogeta was 2-C that would mean that he could curbstomp beerus even though Goku said in BOG that even if he fused with vegeta he would stand no chance against beerus and as we know BOG is no longer canon thus going to the anime/movie Timeline.
 
@Jonathanlighter is correct in how tier 2 works that's why i said even if Gogeta or Janemba destroyed Heaven,Hell and the Mortal Universe it would still be a 3-A.
 
SomebodyData said:
98% sure they're talking about feeling his ki, not the universe shaking. If he is doing it with the force of a hurricane then it is definitely not 3-B.
The fact that other characters are 4-A doesn't help your argument.... Where did you get Cooler's death calced at 4-A? I'm pretty sure he meant powerful as in relatively speaking... The strongest character in movies means that they design him to be the strongest character in game, not character = character.
What are you talking about? In the manga his ki was felt across the universe, in the movie, his was actually physically shaking the afterlife. Grand Kai said he felt like a (something) in the ocean and Goku was a hurricane. Goku's power knocked him out of his chair.

Goku destroyed the sun when he killed Cooler, non-canon Buu's galaxy feat and potential multi-galaxy feat, etc. Then you have Janemba temporarily having his non-corporeal form of smoke before possessing the Saike Demon, a feat demonstrated in SB.
 
Super Saiyan God Julian said:
@Jonathanlighter is correct in how tier 2 works that's why i said even if Gogeta or Janemba destroyed Heaven,Hell and the Mortal Universe it would still be a 3-A.
Wasn't Zeno granted 2-C because he destroyed all the afterlifes in the universe, which were stated to have no time? If hell (the largest universe in the afterlife) and heaven are destroyed, that doesn't count for anything even though they run on the same lack of time as the afterlife? Like stated above, even if he destroyed a trillion universes (in his case 18), he would've still been 3-A.
 
Oh, you're talking about that, ok. Yeah, he shook the afterlife, but do you know how much? As far as I remember, Grand Kai, for example, wasn't that far.

Goku didn't destroy the sun (somehow), though the blast did it engulf it, it was definitely not 4-A, at best low 4-B.

Again, pointing out I doubt he's saying they're equal in strength, rather equal in how they stack in their respective verses.
 
Zeno was granted 2-C because he destroyed every afterlife and universe in the Future multiverse alongside Incorporeal Zamasu who was spreading into other timelines.
 
I disagree to upgrade Cooler to 4-B and Janemba-Gt Goku to 2-C with this logic.
 
Me too @Dark649 I would have them at best 3-B to 3-A


And off-topic for minute @The 2nd Existencial Seed I answered in your Future Warrior's Potencial Thread if you want you can check that out.
 
Highest point in heaven, but this point is an unknown distance from where Goku was at.

Nah, the blast engulfed the star, but not destroyed it (PIS), still not 4-A and argueably only High 4-C even if it did get destroyed.
 
Doesn't the Toei verse work on the 4 galaxy model? If Goku shaking the afterlife gets accepted (Which I doubt it will) it wouldn't be nowhere near 3-A anyway if that's the case.
 
These are only assumptions. I'm sure if someone calcs Goku sun feat will get lower results than High 4-C. I'm fine with their current tier and upgrading them to tier 3 and 2 is a massive wank, i'm sure the other users will agree with me. Lastly it contraddicts the Unnamed Evil Dragon Galaxy level feat (The highest most legit feat for the non-canon continuity), which is comparable to Evil Smoke Shenron and Omega Shenron anything higher than that is PIS and outlier, especially with the non-canon verse basing on the 4 galaxy model.
 
Yeah I agree with Dark649 Janemba and Gogeta are fine where they are. Beerus and SSG Goku are the only ones with concrete Universal feats and anyone higher or comparable.
 
They were both at the opposite ends of the afterlife (above heaven and hell)


Zamasu also didn't go to the current universe like we think he did. The only reason he even did make it through is the same reason Goku Black got through to U7 with his time ring. Trunks's original time travel created a portal to both universes, which Black and Zamasu travel through.

"Is something going to come out again?" Implies he never went into any universe but future U7.


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Do you have a source for where you got the locations of Grand Kai's planet and HFIL?

Additionally do you have a source for the size of the afterlife?
 
@Dark649 I can quote you saying Perfect Cell is 4-A. Kid Buu being 3-B is supported by the non-canon, so a 3-A (at least) Janemba and Gogeta isn't a reach, especially when its backed by feats.
 
3-B Kid Buu is not supported, 3-A Gogeta and Janemba doesn't even have any feats.
 
You stated that heaven is stated to be as wide as the universe, but A- It's a large planet, and B- you didn't cite your source.
 
SomebodyData said:
You stated that heaven is stated to be as wide as the universe, but A- It's a large planet, and B- you didn't cite your source.
"-Taken from Kanzenshuu -" With a direct link to where I got it from. Also it's as wide as the universe, despite being a large planet. King Kai's planet isn't even 3 city blocks in circumference. The whole entire universe is composed of at least 4 universe sized structures as well..
 
"In the anime, Videl, Bulma, and co. look for Gohan here after being killed by Boo. Heaven is said to be as wide as the entire universe itself, and seems to consist mostly of an immense field of flowers. Videl and the other dead people are shown as looking the same as in life from the waist upward, but with ghostly tails instead of legs, and the standard halo. Dabra is shown as now being ridiculously nice and happy now, to the point that he freaks everyone else out. In GT, Piccolo comes to Heaven after dying in the destruction of Earth, but he purposefully makes Enma send him to Hell to save Goku. Kaio also seems to still be hanging around Heaven at the start of GT (or perhaps Dai-Kaio's planet)."

from you link i got this .-.
 
SomebodyData said:
3-B Kid Buu is not supported, 3-A Gogeta and Janemba doesn't even have any feats.
4-A feat, same as Broly, was going to destroy a multi-galaxy sized planet in the non-canon, destroyed earth with a radius of a galaxy, non-canon SS3 Goku being stronger than that Kid Buu, Goku violently shaking three universes by charging up, when it's confirmed shaking one is a multi-galaxy feat, etc.
 
So Zeno is 2-C because....

-He destroyed the afterlifes

-He destroyed Zamasu who was creeping into the current timeline , which he could only do because he traveled through a pre-existing void (which defeats the argument)

-Even though there are claims and evidence that he only destroyed physical matter, him being at least low 2-C depends on what Zamasu did.

-More statements of 2-C due to afterlife Destruction

-Even more afterlife statements

So destroying universe sized realms in the afterlife doesn't count? @Antvasima thoughts?

-The afterlife being separate from the mortal universe

"However, Zen'ō is still a Multi-Universal character, as his erasure of all 12 universes didn't simply affect the physical universes, but also the universe-sized Afterlifes, the Kaioshin Realms, and every other pocket dimension in existence."
 
Zeno's 2-C rating does depend mostly on the fact that he erased Zamasu who even if we are supossed to believe he time traveled through trunks' portal,he was already overriding the law and order of the universe they were in and becoming one with its space and time thus giving him his Low 2-C rating. Even if we suppose Zeno only erased physical matter him erasing not only zamasu in the future but also the portal from the present and ALL of the afertlifes and pocket dimensions in the future are enough to warrant a 2-C rating. There is no real evidence that destroying the afterlife of a single universe or all of Universe 7 for that matter should warrant a 2-C rating because it must include its Space and Time.
 
What evidence do we have that Zamasu becoming the universe included space-time? There's multiple statements from multiple staff saying Zeno didn't destroy the timeline, and I doubt Zeno destroyed the portal to the present because as he disappeared, Goku and crew appeared through the same void at the same time, then they used that same void to go back to the future. There's also the evidence that Zamasu became /the/ universe (singular, referencing U7), and I'm pretty sure the multiverse operates on the same space-time, even though they are all physically separated. What's the difference between destroying one afterlife and 12? Because based on this logic, Zeno should've been 2-C from when he destroyed the original 6 universes in the current timeline.
 
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