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Fate Servant Tiering CRT continued

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DragonEmperor23

DragonEmperor23

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Previous threads: The beginning. Hopefully the middle.

So, these revisions have been going on for like 4-5 months but hopefully we can conclude it in this thread. For those that don't want to look through the previous threads and would like to get a summary, the calc that all 7-B/7-A Servants used to scale to is outdated and other attempts at finding calcs to support that rating have either resulted in tiers way below 7-A or are unusuable for scaling. The main conclusion seems to be to have Hercules be at baseline 7-A and then figure out which Servants scale to him or scale to those that scale to him. We also need to find a tier for the Servants that are stronger than 9-B but get oneshot by Herc and those comparable to him. However, if someone finds new evidence for a possible tier, please free to post scans/links to a calc that can be verified. If you can think of a feat but aren't sure exactly how it played it out, try to find that feat before mentioning it in the thread.
 
To be honest the issues people have with servant stats seem to exclusively come from Ushi-Gozen being able to keep up with the other servants that have a higher speed rating than Raikou

Strength should still be fine to scale since there is really nothing that invalidates strength scaling and that one speed situation can just be an outlier
 
I feel like we should save the speed stuff for a different thread or at least wait until we conclude the current topic. This is already taking long enough as it is.
 
Because it's multiple statements and offscreen feats that would be tier 7.

They also weren't all that far below tier 7
 
There was an 8-A calc and a High 7-C calc. I don't know man, this is the best solution we could come up with since everything results in a different tier and mountain level seems more consistent. And I'm going to be honest, I started going through the list of Servants and I'm already running into the problem of C/D Rank STR Servants being able to kill things that are physically comparable to Herc.
 
I would, for a comprehensive, complete look, try to make a list of all the A-Rank Strngth and above Servants we have profiles for and list their statements alongside them so that we can check if it is consistent or not. That way we don't need to blather on about this and that.
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
And I'm going to be honest, I started going through the list of Servants and I'm already running into the problem of C/D Rank STR Servants being able to kill things that are physically comparable to Herc.
Click to expand...
Any examples?
 
Archer Mary/Bonny (D Rank STR) and Archer Artoria (C Rank STR) have this on their profiles.

(Killed multiple Demon Boars, Phantasmal Beasts who could mortally wound Fion and Diarmuid and can take the form of Servants like Kintoki and Heracles)

w h a t t h e h e c c
 
ez D Rank strength is baseline and everything else is slightly higher

I mean even if they were weaker it wouldn't be by so much they couldn't hurt A ranks
 
Mountain busting statements seldom warrant 7-A ratings (as counterintuitive as it sounds)

Just to put into perspective, 3km tall conical mountain with base radius of 3 km only yields ~54 Megatons of TNT with basic fragmentation of 8j/cc , and that's a very generous assumption for a simple statement.

Is there anything more reliable that we can use to tier the physical stats of servants?
 
Shirou's Saber is kinda not good though

In fate one shotting seems kinda inconsistent imo I mean servant Solomon tanked an ora barrage from Goetia

also berserkers take double damage
 
Yeah, but Shirou's Saber still has a B in STR. For her to get oneshot by Herc but then her Archer version who is C Rank in STR being able to kill him isn't that sensical.
 
She also has excalibur vivan though and her strength doesn't really have an effect on that so she could kill him with that
 
It does though.

https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Parameter_Rules

" Physical attacks: Physical attacks of a powerful enough nature, like those of Servants, can be ranked as such. While a sword Noble Phantasm may be A-rank, the rank is not fulfilled without activating its true power as a Noble Phantasm, so the strength of a strike instead comes from the Servant's Strength statistic. It is also possible for weapons to allow for more attacks more powerful than the wielder's Strength, such as Archer of Red drawing her bow out to its limit for an attack exceeding A-rank."
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
Yeah, but Shirou's Saber still has a B in STR. For her to get oneshot by Herc but then her Archer version who is C Rank in STR being able to kill him isn't that sensical.
Click to expand...
Isn't something like that similar to a shadow servant???? In Extella Link Shadow servant were intoduced and are "degraded" copies of the original.
 
I mean

It's more likely than her beating them with her inferior strength

Unless we just disregard the stats in that case

@upgrade

I'm not sure actually
 
TheUpgradeManHaHaxD said:
Isn't something like that similar to a shadow servant???? In Extella Link Shadow servant were intoduced and are "degraded" copies of the original.
Click to expand...
It could be. I didn't make the profile, but I think they would have mentioned it if the clones were weakened. Even taking that into account, the Beasts can mortally wound Diarmud, Diarmud = Saber, Saber killed Lancelot, Lancelot has an A in STR and is comparable to Herc.
 
Paul Frank said:
I mean
It's more likely than her beating them with her inferior strength

Unless we just disregard the stats in that case
Click to expand...
Yeah, it helps your argument but there's no proof of which way it went.
 
slap 7-A on everyone and just make it slightly above baseline for stronger servants simple

I mean if she is weaker than them but she could beat them with her np im pretty sure she would since Squirtoria just wants to become the champion of Water Blitz and not lose unless she reaches that goal
 
That part of the description is in her physical stats though. Her profile says she is 6-C with Excalibur Vivian.

Mountain level (Killed multiple Demon Boars, Phantasmal Beasts who could mortally wound Fion and Diarmuid and can take the form of Servants like Kintoki and Heracles). Island level with Excalibur Vivian (Comparable to Excalibur)

See?
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
That part of the description is in her physical stats though. Her profile says she is 6-C with Excalibur Vivian.
Mountain level (Killed multiple Demon Boars, Phantasmal Beasts who could mortally wound Fion and Diarmuid and can take the form of Servants like Kintoki and Heracles). Island level with Excalibur Vivian (Comparable to Excalibur)

See?
Click to expand...
I went through the event again. The demon boar she killed. She had help from multiple other servants. Just prior to this though. When hunting dear she was originally going to use Vivan to destroy a forest, and the "Lee of a mountain" (whatever that is.) Before she was stopped.

It could be possible to calc Excalibur Vivan if anyone has a screenshot of the map from that event, but idk....

Edit: the demon boar she dealt a finishing blow too said her kingly name, and it was only 1 boar.
 
What about that one time in Arthur's trial quest that he very explicitly solo'd several Demon Boars?
 
I don't get why A Rank STR = Mountain level, but then turn around and give B Rank STR Diarmuid and B+ Rank Fionn Mountain level as well, while leaving Fate Saber at City level for physical striking power.
 
Well nevermind. Herc is A+ Rank. By Nasu's Parameter numbers this means that an A rank is half his strength. Do you guys think that is consistent?
 
Huh, it's interesting how the value for the ranks match the amount of tons in this case.

https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Parameter_Rules

A+ =100 Value = 100 megatons

A= 50 Value = 50 megatons

Since it's possible to have characters beat characters stronger than them in a physical fight, we can just do it this way. A+ Rank and above Servants are baseline 7-A and A rank and below are 7-B+. Also, is there any reason that we make the E rank Servants 9-B? We can just scale them to being one tenth of A+.
 
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