• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan

VS Battles
Calculation Group
11,099
4,323
Great movie, and a great end to 11 years of the MCU. But this thread is not for discussing the movie, but revising our profiles based on new possible upgrades/downgrades, whatever it takes.

Thanos and the Black Order
Let's start with the big bad guy Thanos. People think it's inconsistent that 2014 Thanos seems to be stronger than Thanos with incomplete IG. However, Thanos in Endgame was actually bloodlusted and was trying to kill these annoying Avengers. Probably explains it.

Not much upgrades for base Thanos except probably adding the Infinity Sword as his standard equipment. The Infinity Gauntlet, however would be upgraded. Thanos states he would shred the universe down to its last atom and create a new one. People have debated whether it's 3-A, High 3-A or Low 2-C. It's just 3-A in my opinion, as it's just destroying the matter in the universe.

The Black Order were...disappointing and inconsistent as hell. Corvus Glaive got stabbed (killed?) by Okoye, though that can be explained by sharp weaponry yada yada. She should probably be "higher with weaponry" just like the Asgardians. Corvus Glaive and Proxima Midnight should be downgraded to just 8-C (scaling to Captain America) in my opinion. Corvus Glaive only harmed Vision with his spear. Cull Obsidian should also be downgraded to 7-A, as Giant-Man was able to one-shot him (will talk about him later) by stamping on his face. I don't think he should really scale to Iron Man. Ebony Maw is the most consistent among the Black Order, and should be fine.

Feats
List of feats/potential upgrades (including outliers and PIS):

  • Scarlet Witch overpowers Thanos, though her tier'll probably not change. Wanda also breaks Thanos's sword which deflected Stormbreaker
  • Spider-Man yanks down Cull Obsidian by taking him on surprise, and Giant-Man one-shots him by stomping on him. High 6-B Giant-Man or outlier?
  • Okoye fights and kills Corvus Glaive (blatant outlier)
  • Giant-Man punches a Leviathan, far stronger than 7-A Hulk's in the original Avengers movie
  • Cap can manipulate lightning with Mjolnir, as well as fight Thanos for half a minute. Cap's shield and hammer throws harm Thanos better than Hulk in Infinity War. Could possibly be High 6-B, though he'd at least be 7-A scaling to Mjolnir Thor
  • Captain Marvel carried the Milano, a potential lifting strength feat. Should also scale to base Thanos, though she was one-shotted by the Power Stone
  • Thanos breaks Cap's shield, though only with his sword. Would only be 7-A though
  • Fat Thor is clearly weaker than Infinity War Thor, and is overpowered+nearly killed by Thanos with both Stormbreaker and Mjolnir. He was still able to hold back against Thanos trying to kill him with Stormbreaker (Thanos was using both hands)
  • Valkyrie kills a Leviathan with a spear
  • Infinity Gauntlet statements
  • Doctor Strange makes a water tornado (water manipulation/telekinesis)
  • Spidey insta-kills Outriders
  • Hawkeye fights Outriders (possible outlier)
  • Iron Man kills all of Thanos's army with Infinity Gauntlet
  • Captain Marvel busts Thanos's ship. Could be a decent supporting feat since Thanos's ship is far bigger than the Asgardian's ship in Infinity War which is High 7-C
  • Injured Hulk stopped a portion of the Avengers HQ from collapsing
The Avengers
Let's start with Iron Man, the man who started the franchise. Wasn't bad in the movie, but in terms of feats, he was meh. Got stomped by Thanos despite being helped by Thor and Cao. Would probably stay as High 6-B.

Captain America with Mjolnir was rather impressive. Was able to briefly go one-on-one against Thanos. According to Odin's enchantment whoever be worthy will possess the power of Thor, so his physical strength would be on Thor's level as well. High 6-B Captain America, also with lightning manipulation.

Fat Thor was disappointing. He is clearly weaker than Infinity War Thor, but was still barely able to fight Thanos. Should be High 6-B, though a new key is necessary to note that he is significantly weaker than before.

Professor Hulk would have an upgraded intelligence rating, but feat-wise he was disappointing too. He did put on Iron Man's gauntlet, he also implied that anyone else in the room would die trying so. Moreover, he supported a portion of the collapsed Avengers HQ while with an injured arm.

Black Widow didn't have any good feats in the movie. Hawkeye did outrun an explosion caused by his own arrow. No good feats for War Machine either.

Someone should probably calculate how much of the explosion that blew up the Avengers HQ Ant-Man tanked. He had a small surface size, so it might not be that much of an outlier. For Giant-Man, he would be 7-A, as he easily punched Leviathans far better than Hulk and Thor did in the original Avengers movie. And how tall was he? Probably around a 100 feet?

Captain Marvel will without a doubt scale to Thanos in terms of physical strength. Would she have MFTL+ travel speed though, and would her speed affect any other characters?

The Guardians of the Galaxy and the sorcerers wouldn't have any upgrades either, nor would the other less important characters.

That's how much I could think of atm. What do you think?
 
To start things off, Captain Marvel's MFTL+ travel speed feat shouldn't scale to anything other than her travel speed.

And we've debunkled the 3-A/Low 2-C statement multiple times on the other thread, so I'm not sure why that's on the OP here.
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
What and how was Thanos pretty clearly saying he was going to take apart the universe and remake it, debunked exactly?
Him never using the Gauntet prior to such statements and taking effort in far lesser feats when it was actually used in IW.
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
He knows how the stones work, and how powerful they are. He didn't have the entire gauntlet previously, so what he does with lesser stones has no baring on the capacity of the full gauntlet.
How and where is it stated he's aware of the capabilities and limitations of the Gauntlet? He's clearly wrong about how easy it was to wipe out half of the universe's life, as that nearly kills him and destroys the gauntlet.

>what he does with lesser stones

I'm talking about using the whole gauntlet to just affect life in the universe, which is ridiculously less of a feat than atomizing all its matter.
 
First off, he gained knowledge by watching the recordings of the future. He had already done research on the stones obviously prior. You remember that at no point does he say he will survive remaking the universe

with lesser [amounts of] stones

Yeah, but it has no anti-feats so it doesn't matter. He didn't try to do anything higher, so what does it matter?
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
First off, he gained knowledge by watching the recordings of the future. He had already done research on the stones obviously prior. You remember that at no point does he say he will survive remaking the universe
with lesser [amounts of] stones

Yeah, but it has no anti-feats so it doesn't matter. He didn't try to do anything higher, so what does it matter?
He doesn't see many recordings, and just learned enough that he completed his mission in that timeline and that the Avengers would have the Stones in the future. If you can explain the depth of the research he does on them and source your claim, that would help. I'm not saying he would survive it; just that it contradicts previous showings.

>no anti-feats

So disintergrating all life in the universe nearly nuking the gauntlet isn't an antifeat? And just because we don't see something at full power doesn't make all statements about it immediatly valid.
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
What contradiction is even there to 3-A gauntlet? It literally only scales to the IG itself
I've explained my issues with it above, if you'd like to adress them.

It scales to Stormbreaker if we aren't removing that.
 
Watch this movie was one of the most disgusting and annoying experiencese I have ever passed through.

And at the same time, it was an experience that I may not be able to repeat in a huge while.
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
Let's start with the big bad guy Thanos. People think it's inconsistent that 2014 Thanos seems to be stronger than Thanos with incomplete IG.
Imo, he's playing religious zealot whose faith was being put to question by heretics this time round, compared to the messianic archetype that holds back on his opponents back in the previous movie.

People have debated whether it's 3-A, High 3-A or Low 2-C. It's just 3-A in my opinion, as it's just destroying the matter in the universe.

I agree with the tier that only has him atomize physical objects in the universe.

Corvus Glaive got stabbed (killed?) by Okoye

Vibranium spears are a force multiplier. Said spears are said to be able to kill tanks after all, and Corvus is not notably above Cap at all.

Cull Obsidian should also be downgraded to 7-A, as Giant-Man was able to one-shot him (will talk about him later) by stamping on his face.
It's like he's resistant to energy-based attacks or something. I dunno. AoU level Hulkbuster tier most likely as he can tango with that. Maybe a tad lower? As he only ripped the arm with a sharp weapon, and it's at a joint.

  • Scarlet Witch overpowers Thanos, though her tier'll probably not change. Wanda also breaks Thanos's sword which deflected Stormbreaker
Iirc, he specifically makes it a point to not be on the sharp side of the axe. Their first clash for example, has his sword locked against Stormbreaker's handle, just below the axe head. But yeah, Wanda scales from Thanos' durability, and is superior to his lifting strength.

  • Spider-Man yanks down Cull Obsidian by taking him on surprise, and Giant-Man one-shots him by stomping on him. High 6-B Giant-Man or outlier?
I think, he loses leverage when Spidey pulls his overhead strike a little too far back to resist getting pulled down. But yeah, I doubt Giant Man is at that level, but I will concede to potential supporting feats.

  • Giant-Man punches a Leviathan, far stronger than 7-A Hulk's in the original Avengers movie
Can the KE of that thing swimming through the air be calced? Ant Man overpowered that quite easily.

  • Cap can manipulate lightning with Mjolnir, as well as fight Thanos for half a minute.
My theory is that since the hammer grants the power of Thor, it would've upped the stat boost from Dark World levels to Endgame levels by virtue of Fat Thor wielding it prior to Cap, and it recognizing that this Thor is stronger, and therefore it should match.

  • Thanos breaks Cap's shield, though only with his sword. Would only be 7-A though
Why would it be when it has not shown an upper limit to its durability prior to Endgame? It's the only time it was damaged after all, iirc.

  • Fat Thor is clearly weaker than Infinity War Thor, and is overpowered+nearly killed by Thanos with both Stormbreaker and Mjolnir.
Agreed. He's physically up to snuff, but obviously weaker. That said, I don't think Mjolnir amped anything with him other than getting another bludgeoning weapon.

  • Valkyrie kills a Leviathan with a spear
Valkyrie's weapon >> Iron Man's Avengers 1 laser confirmed.

  • Hawkeye fights Outriders (possible outlier)
Sharp weapon syndrome.

  • Injured Hulk stopped a portion of the Avengers HQ from collapsing
Hulk is effectively neutered at this point because his strength scales with anger, and Banner tends to be a doormat... Like, he was awkward af in New York.

High 6-B Captain America, also with lightning manipulation.

Agreed.

Fat Thor was disappointing. He is clearly weaker than Infinity War Thor, but was still barely able to fight Thanos. Should be High 6-B, though a new key is necessary to note that he is significantly weaker than before.

Pretty much.

Captain Marvel will without a doubt scale to Thanos in terms of physical strength. Would she have MFTL+ travel speed though, and would her speed affect any other characters?

Yes, and no. She never bullrushed anyone at those speeds and no one reacted to it.
 
Eganergo said:
Shouldn't everyone have Acausality type one for not being affected by past event?
I don't think so. DBZ has a similar case where time traveling into the past just creates more timelines. They don't have Acasuality type 1 for that so I think MCU characters wouldn't have it for the same reasons.
 
No. The thing they discussed was that as long as what was taken is returned, the branching timeline will merge back with the prime timeline eventually. Think of it like Fate's quantum timelock or something.

Aren't that theory only works for the infinity stone because they are what the universe is made of? If i remember correctly prof hulk gave different explanation than Ancient one before the time travel.
 
None of them even understood how it was gonna go for sure until Ancient One spelled it out for Hulk.
 
They got it mainly right, Ancient One just added the detail that a timeline without it's Infinity Stones goes wrong. So they just needed to drop them back when used.
 
As discussed on the other threads

  • Stormbreaker should have it's 5-A key removed and replaced with "higher with Stormbreaker". According to WoG is specifically counters the IG and it was blocked by Thanos' helicopter blade
  • Cul either needs his High 6-B rating changed to 7-A or no one can scale to him. At this point he's just to inconsistent
  • CM should be "High 6-B, likely higher" and SW should be "At least High 6-B, likely higher"
  • We need to determine how to scale Levithans. Either they have 7-A durability or we only scale people to "At least 8-C/8-A"
  • If someone does make a profile for Pepper, she needs a key cor her Extremis Virus form
  • Personally I agree the completed IG is 3-A, but not High 3-A or Low 2-C, as it just doesn't have the statements supporting such a rating.
 
No, the Black Order scales to At least 8-C IMHO. One-shottnig tanks via frag is High 8-C according to the M1 Abram's tank profile.

The Gauntlet is undeniably 3-A, no question about that, also Stormbreaker is gonna get downgraded anyway.
 
Also 2014 Thanos should be stronger than 2018-19 Thanos IMHO. That's when he was actually at his peak. So Fat Thor getting rekt supports him being weaker than his peak self even more, however disappointing it is.
 
At leat 5-A for Stormbreaker is fine to me. Thor was nerfed in that movie so much. Poor physical form and drunked in all movie.
 
Yeah, this is all good

Cap's hammer key should be High 6-B. Also, his shield should probably be High 6-B for tanking multiple blows from Thanos before properly breaking apart.
 
The statement is safe, Thanos already was searching for the Stones at that time, so he obviously know how they work and their actual power
 
DMUA said:
Yet Thor hitting the shield full force didn't do anything to it.

There's definitely something special about it beyond just being vibranium
Pre-Ragnarok Hulk >>>>> Thor (I agree though).
 
Hulk and Thor are evenly matched though. They go blow for blow on the helicarrier at one point (Though it's been so long I don't remember how that fight ends)
 
The shield will probably be retconned to be made of both adamantium and vibrainium once the X-Men r introduced.
 
Actually, more support on the High 6-B shield, Cap was able to use it in conjunction with the hammer I keep forgetting how to spell to deal out some damage to Thanos. It's just that Thanos was able to break it via wacking it over and over again with the infinite sword directly.
 
Back
Top