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Base Natsu Scaling to Spriggan level

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DemonGodMitchAubin

DemonGodMitchAubin

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I'm surprised this is such a point of contention, but there are those who believe we cannot scale Base Natsu to Spriggan level, however I believe that is completely incorrect and believe there is a lot of info that proves that Natsu scales to the Spriggans in his base from

Points Against Natsu Scaling

  • Natsu did little to no damage against Ikusa-Tsunagi, who is weaker than the Spriggans
  • Natsu was tempted to use Igneel's Power against Brandish
  • Natsu only slightly damaged the Spriggans, therefore he doesn't scale
Points For Natsu Scaling

  • Natsu Matches 1st Devil Slayer Mark Gray, who would later damage and defeat Invel
  • Natsu punches Ajeel in the face and hurts him
  • Natsu is comparable to Gajeel, who matched Bloodma in terms of power
  • Natsu scales above Lisanna and Elfman, who managed to defeat Ajeel
  • Natsu fought on equal ground with Jacob and managed to damage him and make him bleed
  • Natsu melts Invel's Ice, which was so cold, it could freeze other ice, and this impressed Invel who said "Only he could do that"
  • Natsu defeats Neinhart, who stated to be stronger than Brandish, and that impressed her
  • Throughout the entire arc, Natsu is only taking slight damage from all of the Spriggans he faces, he only has tiny scratches from all of them which doesn't appear to put him down at all
Conclusion
Base Natsu has far more points supporting him scaling to spriggans than make him not scale to them. Natsu was never afraid of Ikusa-Tsunagi, and didn't worry about fighting him at all, he only used one normal fire punch against him and it didn't really do anything, however, there is nothing that says Natsu couldn't in base form go all out and use his strongest base form attacks, and have a long drawn out battle with him, going back and forth, but why would Natsu want to do this, he chose to end the fight early, and just One-Shot and absolutely murder him with Fire Dragon King Mode. As for Natsu being afraid of Brandish, that was just the author hyping up Brandish to be far stronger than anything before, but that doesn't really mean anything as later in the same instance, Natsu is ready to take her on at any moment, and we know Natsu could One-Shot Spriggans even without Igneel's Power by using Fire Dragon King Mode, so that's just super inconsistent in the main story and doesn't really support either side. The last thing is that Natsu apparently only slightly damaged the Spriggans, but the Spriggans also did only slight damage to Natsu, so the amount of damage they are doing to each is the same which means that they are comparable. Plus the Spriggans usually are doing so well against our heroes because of hax, whether it be Command T, Age Seal, Being Intangiable via Sand or Bane Particles, and even immunity to lightning. All this doesn't even count for the fact that Base Natsu was confirmed to be stronger than Brandish when he beat Neinhart, who was stronger than her, which apparently want to write off as just a random Power of Friendship Increase, but here's the thing, Natsu is always going on about friendship speeches and emotions which fuel his power, so he is always using the power of friendship, in all his forms, you take a character at their max power and make that their tier. As well when Natsu and Lucy both kick Jacob together and make him bleed and hurt him, even if we were generous and said Natsu and Lucy were equal, and that they each take half the feat of damaging Jacob, that would split the feat they scale to being 2.02 Gigatons to 1.01 Gigaton each, meaning Natsu would still be the same tier. Due to all the reasons above, Natsu should scale to Spriggan level as he is comparable to them in his base form, so Natsu should be High 7-A, not needing a likely or possibly.
 
Could you please put in links to the pages for your Points for Scaling section? I think it'd be helpful.
 
Iirc the Gray thing was all fake and was a ratio. Natsu puncher Ajeel in he Face yet Ajeel wasn't even hurt that bad, Erza who's stronger then Base Natsu was getting her ass kicked and got a lucky shot cause of distraction. I'm sure Base Gajeel couldn't touch Bloodman but going DF then he turned the tables. Ok true that they beat beat Ajeel but this still goes back to how Erza had trouble on her own and she's stronger then them + the had transformation to take him on + we don't know how they beat him since it's never shown, they could had used a tactic from other objects around them to beat him. Base Natsu never fought on equal ground, he was getting smacked even with Lucy help and even then used Jacobs weakness the entire fight after but that just only made him more pissed. Invel wasn't even trying when he froze them. That was PoF Natsu that one shot Neihart yet he was scared of Brandish from beforehand that he was gonna use FDKM. Base Natsu never took slight damage front Spriggans since it was shown more that he was getting tossed around and taking more damage from Spriggans

U can't say that Natsu didn't try with his iron fist with Ikusa cause u can tell he went all out and all it did was stagger cause if that was the case then he would had used the same technique but used more power to actually take Ikusa down but that wasn't the case. Hiro wasn't hyping Brandish up, he was showing how outclasses they were went confronting her cause if that was the case then Natsu would get scared like that and went to take her on. Just cause Natsu wasn't afraid to take Ikusa that doesn't mean yur automatically stronger. Again I can be weaker then another one but still have courage to take him on
 
I will be honest I wil be neutral for now but I think I will willing to change mind once I read though more the response from all side.
 
HenryWong122 said:
Oh, look BlackeJa! You just gave all the same points that everyone who thinks that Base Natsu doesn't to scale Spriggan level always gives.
Click to expand...
I can tell yur being rude but hey we all been saying the same thing pretty much so that tells u only been reading my stuff and not everyone else so cut the rudeness. It's common sense of what was shown in the manga and all but do u have anything u wanna say?

EDIT: I'm sorry but half of the things I've said was basically of what was said in previous thread yes but other things that @Demon brought up are new and I gave my answer. I can understand u want FT upgrade to happen but how about u actually try seeing what is accurate and what's not
 
BlackeJan said:
HenryWong122 said:
Oh, look BlackeJa! You just gave all the same points that everyone who thinks that Base Natsu doesn't to scale Spriggan level always gives.
Click to expand...
I can tell yur being rude but hey we all been saying the same thing pretty much so that tells u only been reading my stuff and not everyone else so cut the rudeness. It's common sense of what was shown in the manga and all but do u have anything u wanna say?
EDIT: I'm sorry but half of the things I've said was basically of what was said in previous thread yes but other things that @Demon brought up are new and I gave my answer. I can understand u want FT upgrade to happen but how about u actually try seeing what is accurate and what's not
Click to expand...
Talk about rude. I was just pointing out that what a lot of people say. and quite frankly my dear, I don't give a dam if FT get's upgrades or not.
 
One thing I'm confused about is that Jacob supposedly possess higher magic power than Makarov, which would imply that Natsu also higher magic power than Makarov if he is equal to Jacob.

Yet when base Natsu lands hits on Jacob he can barely hurt him; and when Makarov punches Jacob he sends him flying across the lake.

How is there such a difference in the attacks landed if Natsu is supposed to be stronger?
 
Base Natsu was also holding back cause he didn't want to wreck the guild and Jacob kept avoiding Natsu by using Stealth, so he more outmaneuvared Natsu than overpowered him and he didn't dodge Makarov like an idiot, alos he was kinda caught off guard
 
Except Natsu going all out was him using FDKM. If that's was the case then he wouldn't had used that and just used his normal attacks instead

@Henry

No. It easy to see the sarcasm in it and I know yur tryna play victim hence why I got at u back
 
Yeah Natsu used FDKM, why would he want a completely even battle in strength, when he can just One-Shot the opponent with his strongest form, he was still holding himself back, which would pscychologically hold him back, even in his base form
 
Like I said before, I agree with Base Natsu scaling to the Spriggans. If no one wants to add a key for the previous arc, them I'm okay with it.
 
@Demon

No. Jet even said that he didn't want to wreck the guild so he could no go all out. Natsu did and it was him using FDKM, that was Natsu going all out so it makes no sense for him to hold back he uses a powerup

@Calaca

Do u truly want them to scale even though FT members do slight damage to Spriggans?
 
You can scale to someone even with slight damage.

First, the Spriggans are scaling above Iku with its 2.02GT.

Second, people like Elfman and Lisanna defeated a Spriggan by themselves (with help, but still [even when I think that they winning is the biggest BS ever seen]).

Third, isn't about what I want, but what looks more accurate. I've never supported the idea of Base Natsu not scaling to the Spriggans but avatar arc Natsu not scaling to Large Mountain. There's a big difference.
 
It doesn't really matter whether Natsu matched Ikusatsunagi or not. All we saw that one of Natsu's base attacks was ineffective, that's all. That doesn't give us much info at all.

However later on he matched with Spriggans, who are >Ikusatsunagi via statements/common sense, meaning that base Natsu scales to Ikusa's feat. Easy as that.
 
So 8 people agree with scaling Base Natsu to Spriggans and one of them is a Staff Member, so I think that it's been decided here, while 2 people still disagree, majority agrees, so our scaling will stay the same as it has been, that being Base Natsu = Spriggans
 
Most of that people gave arguments as to why Natsu should scale. So I don't see why what the majority voted would be wrong in this case when the evidence is pretty solid.
 
BlackeJan said:
Again don't do votes cause people could just agree with u just to agree or disagree just to do
Click to expand...
CRT are decided majority agreements from supporters and staffs' inputs, assuming the arguments are valid. In this case, the arguments in favorof OP looks valid to me.
 
Can someone link the statement of the Spriggans being more powerful than any other enemy?
 
Gray says he's never met anyone as strong as Brandish

The author says they're the strongest enemies thus far
 
Do you think 12 strongest characters in the history of the series is a bit hyperbolic considering the existence of Acnologia?
 
12 Strongest Characters is Hyperbolic, I mean there's Zeref, Igneel, Acnologia, Five God Dragons, Natsu, and some more, but he does say they're stronger than every enemy beforehand, and I think that's what he meant by strongest characters, that they're the strongest villains thus far, he just really didn't think about Acnologia or Zeref
 
Gray's comment is also a bit weird. Hasn't he met Zeref and Acnologia before?
 
Gray never met Zeref, but he did meet Acnologia, regardless he was more afraid of her than Ikusa-Tsunagi, point is, the Spriggans scale above him, the author says it and so does the characters
 
I would agree with Natsu scaling, but let's be honest, it's not as if the opposition doesn't have a point here. Some things just got inconsistent as the final arc went on. Elfman + Lisanna beating Ajeel is very weird. I legit went "huh?" when it happened.
 
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