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Base Natsu Scaling to Spriggan level

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@Calaca

The Roar against the Alvarez Soldiers was also a FDK Attack... so it can't scale to Base Natsu
 
Unless we separate Base Form FDK moves from Natsu actually entering the form, it's never been confirmed if they're separate or the same AP, which makes our lives far more complicated, regardless I feel Natsu is Spriggan level still and deserves the High 7-A
 
Captain Torch said:
Natsu should be High 7-A in base just via virtue of base gajeel matching Bloodman in strength
Click to expand...
Base Gajeel didn't match his strength. All he got was metal headbutt but that didn't even do damage to Bloodman
 
Actually his iron dragon roar matched Bloodman's "Ice Demon Roar", and Gajeel managed to tank his third release "Over Skelter". It's pretty clear that the only thing that was holding gajeel back was his intangibility.
 
^Yeah

Timestop, Intangibility, Mass Manipulation, and other abilities make matches that are just about AP hard for the heroes

So Elizhaa and Dragonmaster agree with Scaling Natsu, one more staff member is enough for me
 
Here's the current standing

Agree with Natsu Scaling: 12 (DemonGodMitchAubin, CaptainTorch, AnonymousBlank, HenryWong122, DragonEmperor23, 1997KD, Schnee One, DavidSteel1, Burning Full Finger, Hst Master, Elizhaa, Dragonmasterxyz)

Disagree with Natsu Scaling: 1 (BlackeJan)

Neutral as Fuq: 2 (Damage3245, Calaca Vs)

And before you say votes don't count for anything Blackejan, everyone who has participated in this thread gets a say and their opinons matter, normal supporters for the verse get to decide scaling and results, Staff Members have important opinions that are necessary to proceed however they don't decide everything, so I'm pointing them out, as each of them get to have a say in how we proceed forward with revisions
 
I didn't say I really disagreed with it - I'm more neutral.

I think the Neinhart feat is really, really weird - but I'm generally fine with the proposed scaling / justifications.
 
I'm neutral as well right now. On top of that, I was agreeing before. I've said like ten times that I didn't disagree with Base Natsu scaling.
 
Fairy Tail sure does have it's inconsistencies though.

'Brandish has more magic power than I've ever felt" - Gray

> Neinhart has been enchanted to be more powerful than Brandish ever was

> Natsu one-shots Neinhart

Either Neinhart's durability was always trash, or base Natsu's power can increase ridiculously.
 
Captain Torch said:
Actually his iron dragon roar matched Bloodman's "Ice Demon Roar", and Gajeel managed to tank his third release "Over Skelter". It's pretty clear that the only thing that was holding gajeel back was his intangibility.
Click to expand...
That is an outlier cause that is the only attack that equal but everything else Bloodman was wrecking Base Gajeel

EDIT: Base Gajeel never tanked "Over Skelter", go to the next page and Gajeel takes a lot of damage from it. If Base Gajeel was truly comparable then even with the Over Skelter he should let taken that much damage so that has to be an outlier right there. Don't forgot that Base Gajeel headbutt did no damage
 
That is an outlier cause that is the only attack that equal but everything else Bloodman was wrecking Base Gajeel
EDIT: Base Gajeel never tanked "Over Skelter", go to the next page and Gajeel takes a lot of damage from it. If Base Gajeel was truly comparable then even with the Over Skelter he should let taken that much damage so that has to be an outlier right there. Don't forgot that Base Gajeel headbutt did no damage

He tanks the attack and later resume to try fighting Bloodma. He later was able to harm Bloodma after he absorbs Anti-magic particles and later almost one-shot him. Note, this form is not Dragon Force that give large power boost, just Gajeel Redfox's metal form with anti-magic particle absorb. I agree with Captain Torch's point on Intangibility.
 
That's is DF though....again even if he didn't have intangibility, Gajeels headbutt didn't do squat that's something u can't ignore. Tanking an attack is when u get hit by something and keep pushing without taking damage, Gajeel didn't
 
BlackeJan said:
That's is DF though....again even if he didn't have intangibility, Gajeels headbutt didn't do squat that's something u can't ignore. Tanking an attack is when u get hit by something and keep pushing without taking damage, Gajeel didn't
Click to expand...
They both didn't take major damage from the headbutt so I do see why it would invalidate anything.

  • http://*****************/read-online/Fairy-Tail-chapter-486-page-3.html
  • http://*****************/read-online/Fairy-Tail-chapter-486-page-4.html
Also, Gajeel's form is not stated to be Dragon Force.
 
Gajeel used a metal headbutt but even so don't see why Gajeel would take damage when he's attacking. Well it doesn't matter if it's DF or not, it gave him a power boost and get him the ability to touch Bloodman

EDIT: actually Bloodman can turn intangible when he wants to, he's not like that all the time or Gajeel wouldn't have gotten that hit on him
 
Actually Gajeel was matching Bloodman, physically anyway. Looking at your scan where he "severely harms" gajeel, if you notice look at the bystanders. They're choking on Bane Particles. Bloodman didn't hit him with a physical attack that was doing the damage, but Bane Particles constant exposure to them in fact. All DF did was bypass his bane particle intangibility and boost him. Also you say he didn't tank Over Skelter when he was literally pushing through the wave for Levy.
 
Hst master said:
Actually Gajeel was matching Bloodman, physically anyway. Looking at your scan where he "severely harms" gajeel, if you notice look at the bystanders. They're choking on Bane Particles. Bloodman didn't hit him with a physical attack that was doing the damage, but Bane Particles constant exposure to them in fact. All DF did was bypass his bane particle intangibility and boost him. Also you say he didn't tank Over Skelter when he was literally pushing through the wave for Levy.
Click to expand...
Cause he didn't lol did u not see him take severe damage from that attack? Again Gajeel didn't even match blows, he did a simple headbutt and Bloodman didn't take any damage. How can Gajeel go blow to blow with someone that can make himself intangible? do u not see what's going on here? Then next thing Base Gajeel can stalemate a roar with a even stronger Bloodman??? Yeah no that's an outlier right there

EDIT: reason why bystanders were choking on the particles cause they don't have anything to protect but Gajeel does?", he even says that his lungs are iron or he made them iron

@Elizahaa

Nothings been debunked. U can even see how it goes in manga and read the dialogue likes I'm sorry but it's not hard to see what happened
 
Bloodma was using Intangibility to phasing though Gajeel Redfox's attack:

  • http://*****************/read-online/Fairy-Tail-chapter-485-page-18.html
  • http://*****************/read-online/Fairy-Tail-chapter-486-page-2.html
  • http://*****************/read-online/Fairy-Tail-chapter-486-page-14.html
  • http://*****************/read-online/Fairy-Tail-chapter-487-page-15.html
  • http://*****************/read-online/Fairy-Tail-chapter-487-page-16.html
Again, no mentioned of Dragon Force, he eat the anti-magic particles wit the help of traces iron to damage, getting Bloodman to states no human like him existed, and almost one-shotting Bloodma.

  • http://*****************/read-online/Fairy-Tail-chapter-487-page-18.html
  • http://*****************/read-online/Fairy-Tail-chapter-487-page-19.html
  • http://*****************/read-online/Fairy-Tail-chapter-487-page-20.html
At this point, it looks like Argument from incredulity to say Gajeel Redfox does not scale at all to Bloodma.
 
Cause he didn't lol did u not see him take severe damage from that attack?

And like I said, it wasn't physical but Bane Particles. Bloodman specifically reveals that his whole body is made of em along with him saying even if Gajeel can resist them to an extent, the bystanders who were also caught in the attack couldn't as Second Seal spreads skulls across the area and thus the range of his Bane Particles. Not to mention Levy even reveals Bane Particles can be absorbed through the Skin something Gajeel wasn't aware of, as he literally only used Iron Dragon Scales to headbutt him.

Again Gajeel didn't even match blows,

He headbutted him, tanked his Tenga Goken, and matched his Ice Devil's Rage. These are the only 3 times he's had a physical confrontation with him. Every other time the sole reason Gajeel and assumedly Sting and Sabertooth couldn't harm him is because of his intangibility not because he was stronger. They even tried to warn Gajeel of this.

Then next thing Base Gajeel can stalemate a roar with a even stronger Bloodman???

There's nothing implying he's stronger, only that he can use the Curses of the other Etherious of Tartarous and Over Skelter (which Gajeel again swam through) in this form. That's entirely an assumption on your part.

Also I notice you said that Elfman and Lisanna could've used "The environment or his weakness" to beat Ajeel....how? Water doesn't negate his durability, just allows him to be touched phusically. Even if they got Water on him they would still have to physically beat him as both are physical fighters and don't have any hax.
 
Yeah, All Spriggans scale above High 7-A, I only made the change to Ikusa-Tsunagi's Page so far tho, I'm waiting for this to be resolved till I edit the profiles
 
That has been agreed, Elizhaa. We're still here because this discussion has stopped the main one.
 
I just found DemonGodMitchAubi downgraded the characters like Ajeel Ramal to At least 7-A after I stated: "The CRT should be done then evaluated for all the changes. There is even the option for me to locks pages for pending content revision discussion. I think there is no need so far as I believe we all can follows the rules."

Now, I believe I got rollback the the characters profiles edits.
 
See heres the thing Elizhaa, the characters were all accepted to be downgraded and the second we finished the revisions, someone brought a new calc that upgraded them back to High 7-A, so it's just the worst timing
 
I also suggest after this conversation is done, we make a rule about not discussing Natsu scaling with the spriggans anymore, because this is another topic that has been talked to death about, like I mean jesus, why are we still talking about it over a year after the series ended
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
See heres the thing Elizhaa, the characters were all accepted to be downgraded and the second we finished the revisions, someone brought a new calc that upgraded them back to High 7-A, so it's just the worst timing
Click to expand...
The revision was not concluded and properly evaluated by staffs like Discussion Moderators or Administrators as they are in charge of the CRT revisions
 
@Elizhaa

I thought you gave us the go ahead last CRT, didn't you agree with the changes, that's what I remember, and you're a Discussion Moderator
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
I also suggest after this conversation is done, we make a rule about not discussing Natsu scaling with the spriggans anymore, because this is another topic that has been talked to death about, like I mean jesus, why are we still talking about it over a year after the series ended
Click to expand...
It seems unnecessary, to me. One should debunks the arguments with evidences. Honestly, speaking, I saw a lot of Argument from incredulity and Argumentum ad nauseum, or argument from repetitio in may recent fairy tail thread. I do think that Fallacy should be called out and Occams's razor usage will help.
 
Alright, at this point, I think we have decided things, Look at the results

Agree with Natsu Scaling: 12 (DemonGodMitchAubin, CaptainTorch, AnonymousBlank, HenryWong122, DragonEmperor23, 1997KD, Schnee One, DavidSteel1, Burning Full Finger, Hst Master, Elizhaa, Dragonmasterxyz)

Disagree with Natsu Scaling: 1 (BlackeJan)

Neutral as Fuq: 2 (Damage3245, Calaca Vs)

2 Staff Members and 1 Knowledgeable Member agree with Natsu scaling (I had to pull Dragonmaster back to the one verse he now hates to settle this) plus 9 other users who have given their opinions on why they agree and have made good cases for it, there are 2 neutral who believe both sides have valid points, and they are fine with either choice, the only person who fully disagrees is Blackejan, and while he has made some good points, both sides just keep saying the same arguments over and over again, so we need to evaluate, I mean the agree side has the complete majority with 2 staff members backing the claim, I believe that the debate has been settled as almost everyone except Blackejan has agreed that Natsu should scale to the Spriggans, and I mean this with no offense at all to you Blackejan, but I think that the Natsu scaling to Spriggans side wins, nobody has fully taken your side and the agree side has far more people behind it, if you continue further, it'll be redundant and likely won't add more to the discussion, that's why I've stopped arguing against you, because I don't wanna say the same things over and over again, that's why I'm saying this should be over and done with by now, as the Natsu scaling to Spriggans side has clearly won
 
Even though I brought good points that made sense....all right fine but other characters below Natsu shouldn't scale
 
Alright, this has finally been settled, so the scaling will look a little like this, since only characters with feats on the level of Spriggans scale

Likely High 7-A: Lucy, Lisanna, Elfman etc.

High 7-A: Base Natsu, Spriggan level characters etc.

At least High 7-A: FDKM Natsu, Laxus, Jellal etc.

Gildarts stays the same

Lisanna and Elfman beat Ajeel, and Lucy should be comparable to that, plus she hurt Brandish Somewhat, that's why they only get the Likely and not straight up High 7-A
 
Regarding Laxus, are sure that this is accurate:

Attack Potency: Was going to One-Shot Ajeel.

Ajeel seemed to think that he wouldn't be one-shot by it. And just because August felt the need to defend Ajeel doesn't mean that Ajeel would have been instantly defeated by the attack.
 
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