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Battle of Knights

Solacis

Solacis

2,703
681
The King of Knights V.S. The Knight Leader

A more light-hearted debate what with the current Fate revisions being so tense...

Saber arturia
King of Knights

Leader


UBW Saber and base Knight Leader.

Excalibur's true name release is restricted.

Speed equalized.


King of Knights: 1 (XDragnoir)

Knight Leader: 0


Bonus Round: (Please, save this for after the actual fight.)

Goddess Rhongomyniad V.S. Curtana-Blessed Knight Leader
 
He can still use Zero Out to nullify the lance's power. Oddly enough, he wouldn't be able to nullify an Excaliblast because its a weapon thats charactherized as "A part of the royal family of England"
 
Rhongomyniad is still a weapon historically used by King Arthur, isn't it? Wouldn't that make it qualify or is it more specific than that?

Edit: Actually, what with Saber being who she is, wouldn't Thororm's defense formula just flat-out not work on her?
 
I have a question, does Arturia really count as a member of the royal family? A while ago I saw a video that said there is no concrete evidence that there really was a King Arthur, so I do not know if she is immune to the effects of Thororm's Formula.

But in general I vote for Arturia, mainly because almost everything that KL can do can not be used in this fight.
 
In irl no, but in the Nasuverse King Arthur was real. A better question is if King Arthur counts as part of the royal family in To Aru.
 
KL can still one-shot her. She is High 7-A, he is High 6-C. Her lance than one-shot him, but he can literally ragdoll other high-end High 6-C's. And his Pattern magic can actually be used against the Royal Family. Also, btw, he just holds back to not kill Carissa. He was willingly trying to kill the other members of the Royal family.


And King Arthur is most likely a legend in To Aru, being used to create Magic via Idol Theory.
 
I doubt that Artoria would be perceived as royalty to KL. Most likely will just be considered a hostile intruder to '''his''' Great Britain.
 
"turn to 0" spell would likely not work at least for direct attacks, if she throws something not related to her (example rocks) it would work, with flight he should be able to put a fight, but we don't have enough information about his base form spells, but he should have same spells as the knights at least

in this battle he is just a very strong sword man with flight so saber should win most of the times
 
Man, I never saw the bonus round on the OP and I was just confused on everyone talking about Saber's lance and thought I read something wrong lol
 
Arturia's not related by blood to the the current Toaru British royal family (obviously), and so far there's no evidence the Toaru British royal family has anything to do with Excalibur or Rhongomyniad or that King Arthur even existed. Is Saber related to the Nasuverse's royal family? If so, you could bend the rules and say that counts for the purposes of the spell.
 
Saber IS King Arthur. That, by default, makes her a part of the royal family. Besides, being a descendant of Britain's royal bloodline (not just Arthur, but any other past king) doesn't mean much considering how many years it's been since the first king and the present time.

Regardless, doesn't verse equalization cover this? If KL's formula doesn't work against Britain's Royal Family or objects associated with it, then any person or weapon that fits said criteria would qualify unless specifically stated otherwise. Unless someone can tell me that To Aru has dealt with "British royalty from another world" and KL was able to affect them, or that KL's inability to affect Britain's royalty is tied to something specific to the To Aru universe, then Thororm's Formula will be equalized to be incapable of working on Saber.
 
No, it clearly doesn't make her a part of the royal family, because you need relation by blood to be a part of it and for the spell to count (that's why it fails against the Maiden's Durandal). The spell's limitation is "can't be used against the British royal family", not "cannot be used against British royalty". There's a difference, and while Saber is the second, so far no evidence has been given to say she's the first.
 
Hello, I am new here as it been just 2 days since I join this wiki. And I would like to start my first debate in one of my favourite franchise, Toaru Majutsu No Index or TAMNI for short.

Attack Potency

-I would assume their Attack Potency is similar enough to not warrant a defeat in just a single strike for both of them, though Saber highest AP is due to her Noble Phantasm while for Knight Leader or KL is him defeating Kanzaki Kaori, which would be disadvantage for the former since its usage can exhaust her.

Durability

-It seems that KL is superior due the clash with Kanzaki Kaori and even caught one of her attacks while Saber remains a tier lower

Speed

-Since speed is equalize so neither had an advantage. Although one of KL pattern magic could bypass that.

Combat and Experience

-It is said that both of them are good in the usage of swords and been shown to do so. Although I have yet to find anything to say that either is great enough that it could effect this battle. So it is not the main factor for me. Though I would say that Saber is most likely better.

Abilities

-KL abililities gives him great advantage, his Slicing Power and Weapon Weight might give Saber trouble especially the former if it could cut her sword, though I am not sure if it can, the latter though can push Saber back by recoil. Attack Range will not allow Saber to gain distance while Precise Accuracy allow to strike towards her weak point. The Movement Speed his biggest advantage as it would increase his speed greatly that Saber would have hard time tracking with her eyes or follow, especially in a speed equal scenario.

Now I don't think that Enduring Solidity is useful as his sword would be durable enough to clash with Sabers. Though Special Use is an odd one, I am unclear whether Saber's dragon blood would take effect.

From the conversation, it seems that there is a debate to whether Saber can be affected by the Thororm Spell, though I would provide a defense for Saber as to whether he would be able to even if the spell is viable, as her sword is invinsible thus cannot be seen. So KL might not be able to affect something he cannot see.

-For Saber now, not much of her abilities seem that useful in this scenario, her precognition could help her predict KL attack even with Movement Speed. Her Magic Resistance doesn't seem useful as most KL magic is self amplified. Attack Range, Slicing Power and Special Use might be affected to a degree

Conclusion

-From the analysis that I did, I would conclude that Knight Leader has a better chance as he has superior AP and Durability. He also abilities that would make use of his stats as Precise Accuracy, Attack Range and Movement Speed will not allow Saber to gain distance nor use her Noble Phantasm, the attack that could harm KL the most with the last magic I believe would be the most effective.

Though it is unclear whether Thororm could affect Saber, her Invinsible Sword may or may not counter that regardless as KL might not be able to affect what he can see(you can debate whether he can). Although Hrunting has no such limitation and thus can be use regardless.

So my Vote would be Knight Leader. I would like to hear insight of my analysis and whether there is extra information that could change my conclusion or if my deduction is misinform.
 
You're looking at the wrong key. We're using base (that is, 7-A) Knight Leader, you're looking at High 6-C Knight Leader.
 
You're looking at the wrong key. We're using base (that is, 7-A) Knight Leader, you're looking at High 6-C Knight Leader.

My apologies then, that does seem fairer, I will redo my analysis later on. Though I would add that if Slicing Power or Thororm's Spell is effective, it might be decisive win for KL, and thus my vote will remain. Although I have yet to conclude whether it would or wouldn't.
 
If @LazyHunter is right, then my vote does change for the 7 tier fight as she would be restricted to just using her body as a weapon and in that case KL would have the advantage
 
Well, according to the myths, the original Curtana was the sometimes unnamed sword of Sir Tristan. Is that enough of a relation to Arthur to work?
 
Saber Sword is invinsible, would that prevent KL to use Thororm's spell even if it is viable? I would like to know your guys thoughts. There is also whether could Slicing Power damage Excalibur. I would consider it decisive win for KL if both are applicable.

It seems that its mostly boil down to their abilities. I would say that KL has the upper hand as his Weapon Weight can throw Saber off balance if clashed, he could attack Saber from a distance, and Movement Speed could make Saber hard to track KL with her eyes, though she could predict his strike with Instict and counter with strike air, I would think she will be mostly in the defensive and simply delaying.

Thus, my vote would still be Knight Leader if he could use Thororm or if Slicing Power can slice Excalibur, he would still win without it due to his pattern magic able to counteract most of Saber's abilities.
 
@Solacis

Tristan's weapon being rumored to be Curtana in real life has nothing to do with Arthur or Excalibur, so nothing changes for Saber here. The only thing we can get from that is that it might not work on Nasuverse Tristan's sword. I don't know if Nasuverse follows that myth, and I don't think Toaru has mentioned Tristan in relation to Curtana (it has barely brought up King Arthur as it is), but most legends in Toaru appear to be the same or very similar to RL.

@1v1 Debater

Invisible Air would keep Knight Leader from using Thororm's Formula until he realized Saber is wielding a sword, yes.

This match is using base Knight Leader. Without Curtana's Original Blessing he cannot use Hrunting, and without Hrunting he can't use pattern magic.
 
@LazyHunter

If that is the case, my vote would change to Saber then. I don't see any advantage KL has as most of his abilities are restricted while Saber has her Precognition, Invisible Air and her most likely superior swordsmanship. Its a decisive win for Saber in this scenario.
 
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