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The Dovahkiin vs Morgoth

Well speed is unequalized but both are Immeasurable so I guess it doesn't matter?

And the Dovahkiin resists basically everything Morgoth has and he doesn't have resistence to mind manipulation so Bend Will gg.
 
There are a few things Morgoth has that can kill the Dragonborn (death hax mainly), but he actually doesn't resist mind hax, and due to his nature as a prisoner the Dragonborn is likely to start with it, dragonrend also cancels his immortalities (just like Aldui's) so I'm voting for the Dragonborn due to mindhax and resistancing a large chunk of Morgoth's abilities. On the Dragonborn vs Kratos thread some of the admins are saying the protagonist can now have matches so I think this is ok.
 
Didn't we used to have a bunch of LOTR/Tolkien supporters a while back? Nowadays, it seems like there's nobody left on the wiki who defends the verse anymore.
 
Dovah FRA.


Also, why is "unblazoned" in quotes on the note about the Black Shield on Morgoth's profile? All that means is that it's just a plain black shield, with no noble device/emblem on it. Someone should clip those.
 
MrKingOfNegativity said:
Didn't we used to have a bunch of LOTR/Tolkien supporters a while back? Nowadays, it seems like there's nobody left on the wiki who defends the verse anymore.
Click to expand...
I don't know what happened, people went looking for Lotr supporters to talk about a downgrade and they couldn't find any for some reason.
 
A Stoned Orc said:
Also, why is "unblazoned" in quotes on the note about the Black Shield on Morgoth's profile? All that means is that it's just a plain black shield, with no noble device/emblem on it. Someone should clip those.
Click to expand...
The original quote specfically states "unblazoned." I don't know why Tolkien thought that was relevant, but apparently he did.
 
"And the Dovahkiin resists basically everything Morgoth has and he doesn't have resistence to mind manipulation so Bend Will gg."

Morgoth can just as easily use conceptual manipulation. Also, does the Dovahkiin have 4-D mental powers. To quote Azathoth:

It'd require a hell of a lot more than just run-of-the-mill empathy manipulation to make Morgoth not himself, as being "the devil" is kinda connected directly to his timeless, higher self.
~ Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot​
Morgoth's true essence and mind are higher-dimensional.
His body isn't.

The latter is infinitely easier to affect than the former.
~ Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot​
Part of being primordial evil means Morgoth will try and dominate everything. The Dovahkiin has to have 4-D mental powers to convince Morgoth not to try and enslave or destroy the Dovahkiin.
 
The Archdemon said:
But how is it going to work, exactly? How fast can it activate, etc.
Click to expand...
Conceptual manipulation?

  • How fast can it activate: Morgoth is Immeasurable. If you want how fast in 4-D, I would guess Massively FTL+.
  • Will he use it immediately: Not only will he likely use it immediatly, it is probably the only thing he would use.
  • What type is it: 2. False Platonic Concept. The Ainulindal├½ is the blueprint of creation. The entire 4-D universe is built from it.
 
Yes, but, you see, the "how fast" part is: thought-based, requires a hand wave, speaking, etc

I guess Morgoth's Concept Hax requires speaking. The Song and such
 
Then something is missing from the Dragonborn's profile. The Thu'um *is* conceptual manipulation. That's what Dragonrend does, for example--it takes the timeless, immortal dragons, and nullifies their immortality by enforcing the concepts of mortality upon them.
 
Actually, I'm right. Dovahkiin uses and resists Information Manipulation, which Conceptual Manipulation is a sub-power of. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Information_Manipulation "On a more complex and powerful scale, users of this ability can manipulate the fundamental information of the universe to warp reality, its laws, and potentially even its concepts, with ease."

Using Dragonrend, the Dovahkiin can enforce the Concepts of Mortality, Finite, and Temporary upon the timeless, immortal dragons, forcing them to land out of shock and awe.
 
Just correcting one thing:

Concept Manipulation isn't a "sub-power" of Information Manipulation. The latter can simply be used to achieve the former if it's potent enough to do so, similarly to how particularly potent forms of Reality Warping can also achieve the former. That's why it's linked to the info manip page, not because it's some sub-category.
 
Bend Will shout is basically a more powerful version of the spell Miraak used during the beginning of Dragonborn DLC. It allows Miraak to control and influence us from Oblivion. Which is higher-dimensional and require low complex multiversal range.
 
Waria Kambang said:
Bend Will shout is basically a more powerful version of the spell Miraak used during the beginning of Dragonborn DLC. It allows Miraak to control and influence us from Oblivion. Which is higher-dimensional and require low complex multiversal range.
Click to expand...
Range is not power.
 
A Stoned Orc said:
The potency of mind hax on this wiki is determined by range, number, and the level of beings it can affect.
Click to expand...
I am saying, just because it can go through 4-D space doesn't mean it can affect it.
 
I am saying, just because it can go through 4-D space doesn't mean it can affect it.

Nirn has been stated as being an entire reality that have ocean made of time and at least 4 spatial dimension, thu'um like Bend Will shout manipulate the song of creation to alter reality itself. Not to mention that Dovahkiin have resistance against information manipulation which may grant him a resistance toward conceptual manipulation.
 
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