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Zoro Upgrades

Ultimately I'm neutral on upscaling, but the previous Asura multiplier should be applied; Zoro's, Luffy's and Sanji's abilities all get passed over from their pre-timeskip to their post-timeskip selfs even if they haven't repeated it this is because that is the neutral option, i.e the less assumptions being made, we shouldn't assume the multiplier doesn't apply or that it's weaker or stronger at this time.
 
I'm stil a firm believer that Zoro should be High 7-A for his scaling since it's an accepted method of scaling in the wiki ( at the moment, if you have an issue with it bring it up in a CRT.)
 
LordWhis said:
Downgrading the most beloved character in the verse and the no. 1 OP mod's former avatar was never going to be successful.
Click to expand...
Nice derail. Also, I've never been a "Mod". You'd do well to stop the obvious harassment, btw :)

@Everyone and no. Zoro is not being upgraded based off of "Being stronger than Pica (Who is 7-A) and 'fighting' a casual Fujitora" who he couldn't even do anything to. In fact, from what we see, Fujitora casually no-sells anything Zoro throws at him, then proceeded to injure him with a simple gravity press. He clearly puts more of an effort against Luffy and even Sabo.

There's simply nothing here to support Zoro as being remotely comparable to Fujitora (inb4 someone brings up a non-canon source like Stampede)
 
As far as I can tell, This is the key feat in which people argue that Zoro should scale to Fujitora, but 1) he failed to break Fujitora's guard, and 2) He pushes him back like 3 feet without causing any form of damage.

Even a child can shove an adult (Fujitora was standing idle btw) back a couple feet despite being far inferior to them in physical power. Why is this suddenly suggesting Zoro is even remotely close to him?

Wank.
 
I'm fine with leaving Dressrosa Zoro's rating as it is. The only thing I think should be adjusted on Zoro's profile is that it should mention that of Asura. There was no mention of Zoro ever losing that technique so he should still have it logically, just never seen the need to do so. We also have to add in mention with Shishi Sonson, it was discussed in the massive scaling thread but never got around to be applied

So, Dressrosa Zoro should be "At least 7-A+, higher with Shishi Sonson, High 7-A with Asura"
 
Yet Fujitora also remarks Zoro's attack as "ferocious.". Again, let's not forget that Zoro was originally going to attack Doffy, he obviously wasn't expecting to be attacked head on by an Admiral. And yeah Zoro did take some damage but he was left relatively, hell even when Fuji blocks the attack there's a "shudder" sound effect imyping Fuji placed a minimal amount of effort. In the same exactl scene Zoro overpowered Fujitora's attack and got back up like it was nothing.


Now, nobody is suggesting scaling Zoro to Fujitora but he should be able scale in a similar fashion to how we rate YC's, they can fight with Admirals but obviously can't hope to beat them. I see this being the same case for Zoro and Fujitora. I'm also sure that Zoro's attack would have done a lot more damage to Issho if ya know, he wasn't ******* pinned down by by gravity by an opponent that's stronger than him while also taking him for surprise.


There isn't any wank, you've just been labeling shit as wank without using any real counter arguments.
 
Two threads where I see people using the word Ferocious for scaling purposes almost at the same time.

Weird.
 
? @Counters - Your arguments are nonsensical.

1) Fujitora regarded the FACT that Zoro used ranges slashes as "Ferocious". He didn't regard his power. Ferocious means anything between being violent, fierce, or brutish. NOTHING about attack power.

  • Also, the shudder sfx comes from the ground shaking the panel before it started crumbling. Now quit making such ridiculous conclusions to FORCE an upgrade.
2) And we scale the YC from FIGHTING AND HURTING THE ADMIRALS. Jozu hurt Aokiji, Vista fought Akainu twice off-panel and was a noted threat to him, Marco fought all 3 admirals and sent 2 of them flying, and full on stopped a punch from Akainu intended to kill Luffy.

  • You're comparing the YC taking hits and hurting Admirals to... Zoro getting hurt by a casual attack and then pushing Fujitora 2 feet with a ranged slash.
3) Your opinion on Zoro's slash being mitigated due to being held down by Fujitora has literally no support, thus shouldn't be taken seriously. Even if the slash was stronger, there's no reason to assume it would have the power to even hurt Fujitora. What Zoro did barely moved him in the first place, meanwhile Zoro himself was injured.
 
Alright well for starters, how's about you drop the passive aggressiveness? It's really not needed and honestly just makes you seem needlessly aggressive, I'd also suggest you drop your accusations of me "forcing" an upgrade.


1: And why would Fujitora call a typical flying slash attack whenever so many One Piece Swordsmen can do such a thing? Quite literally every notable swordsman can launch ranged attack. That argument makes no sense and is totally asinine to believe Fujitora would be impressed by such a thing. Not to mention Occam's Razor would suggest Fujitora meant the power behind the slash, not the attack itself. Flying sword strikes are nothing new in One Piece, there's no reason to assume that Issho is taking about the move itself. Also what are you talking about? The shudder is literally on the same panel with Fujitora, after the ground was slahed and Fuji blocked it, it seems to me you're the one who's trying to force your opinion despite it being objectively wrong.


2: Yes, I'm aware and I'm also fully aware that they can only cause minimal amounts of damage to Admirals. Also i don't recall Vista ever clashing with Akainu let alone being noted as a threat to him. Unless you mean whenever Marco and Vista attacked him, which isn't benefiting your argument given they did literally no damage to Akainu. Marco kept up Kizaru and co via his regen, he kicked Kizaru but did no damage, hell Marco himself Kizaru is lying.


  • First of all, none of the YC inflicted heavy damage to any of The Admiral's, only superficial damage. You know the same thing that Fuji did to Zoro? You've been grealty over exaggerating the amount of damage Issho did to Zoro, all that happened was that Zoro got pinned and drew a small amount of blood. ( Due to being pinned to the ground via gravity.) Zoro then overpowered said attack, launched an attack and jumped back up ready to fight. I just find it odd how you haven't addressed any of these points.


3: Mate, while being pinned down Zoro obviously isn't gonna be able to attack the same way he usually would, that kinda happens whenever you launch an attack upwards while being pinned down by a torrent of gravity coming from above you. It'd be incredibly difficult to even raise your hand while pinned by gravity let alone launching an attack. Again, I'm not saying Zoro is equal to Issho but given the fact that he overpowered his gravity, jumped back up from the attack with minimal injuries and even received a compliment from Fujitora himself should be enough to say that they'd be somewhat comparable.


Now I'm gonna wait for a response from you either filled with sarcasm, condescension followed by several strawman fallacies.
 
Point is, Zoro should be upgraded one way or another to High 7-A. The only real objections Cin brought up against Zoro being High 7-A is him thinking the method of scaling is flawed, which he'll need to make a CRT on if he thinks so, otherwise there's nothing wrong with it.


"At least 7-A+, possibly High 7-A." Should suffice for both parties.
 
Solidly Hogh 7A is more accurate I feel, but I'm willing to accept that.

Something I feel needs to be pointed out, this is barely an upgrade at all, the difference between One Gigaton and Above 868 Megatons by existing, is laughably minuscule, I don't accept this because I want Zoro to be upgraded, or because Im a Zoro fanboy, I agree because I feel it is accurate, and we accept upscaling to other tiers

It's barely even an upgrade, but it's a more accurate place to put Zoro
 
Yeah I see the points made for Zoro being fair and he is definitely a lot higher than he gets from scaling to Pica but like Damage said the at least sort of justifies that.
 
Telling me to drop the "passive aggressive" attitude, but then proceeds to fill his own comment with straight-up harassment and disrespect and the previous one had, let's see: passive-aggressiveness... profanity... oh the list goes on. Mmk :)

First, tell me how Ferocious has anything to do with Zoro having incredible attack power. That's not even what the word means or implies. And also, we've only seen two canon users of ranged slashes unless i'm mistaken. Zoro and Mihawk. Fujitora's is an application via DF.

  • The rest shown to have "ranged" slashes are anime/movie only. Roger if that slash on Oden was ranged, but i can't tell.
Second:

  • Jozu hurt Aokiji... and it was internal given that he was spitting up blood. Jozu unquestionably scales.
  • Marco broke Aokiji's ice saber and sent him flying across the battle-field. Marco fought Kizaru, and if you're going to argue Kizaru not being hurt by Marco--you're completely contradicting your point on Zoro vs Fujitora, especially since Kizaru got sent flying, and Fujitora was moved a couple feet. Both were fine. Difference is that Kizaru's guard was broken and Fujitora was not even bothered.
  • Vista fights Akainu w/ Marco twice off-panel. I was not discussing the slash he and Marco did as counting for damage.

Third, again, It's an opinion that Zoro "was restricted in attack power". I believe it too, but it has no hold on the argument. It's an opinion to state they are comparable when nothing supports this. And even if he was, there's no proof he would overpower Fujitora even if he was at "full power"
 
> Harrassment


This actually got a chuckle out of me but I'm just gonna ignore the snide remarks since i don't feel like going back and forth with you.


fe┬Àro┬Àcious /fə╦êrōSHəs/ Learn to pronounce adjective savagely fierce, cruel, or violent.


It's pretty evident that Issho was talking about the strength behind the slash or else he wouldn't have even made a remark about the attack. I.E, he's considering Zoro's attack as being notable. Also nah, Brook and Ryuma can also do them, same with Roger and i believe we still have a few characters that can also do that. ( I'd have to look back into the manga but other characters have been doing this. ) a flying slash is a pretty common attack for swordsman in OP.




  • Kuzan showed no signs of damage after said kick, the next time we see him he's perfectly fine. Marco broke a relatively thin ice Saber made by Kuzan, which isn't much of an impressive feat given that even pre time skip Luffy could break Kuzan's logia body. With Kizaru there was no visible damage, Kizaru was also trolling Marco to which even Marco himself called out on. You've been focussing entirely on Zoro pushing Fujitora back from a situation that was objectively more difficult as opposed to Marco flying and kicking Kizaru.


  • I don't recall Vista and Marco fighting Akainu off screen twice unless your talking about Marco and Vista attacking Akainu along with the other pirates which doesn't support your argument.


It's not an opinion, moving and attacking while pinned under a gravity torrent is objectively gonna be more difficult than attacking normally. I've never claimed that Zoro would overpower Fujitora himself but he did manage to overpower his gravity, which is High 7-A. Even if you wanna dismiss all of that Zoro's durability would still scale for being able to withstand Issho's attack without that much damage done to him.
 
Overpowering gravity is lifting strength related, not AP

A Tier 10 with Higher Lifting strength can break out
 
Gravity coming from a High 7-A, Issho attacks directly with it so it would be both AP and lifting strength.


But he probably should have class T lifting strength for it too
 
Gravity coming from a High 7A doesn't mean it has AP, Gravity is purely lifting strength

A 10B with higher lifting strength can break out fine
 
I'm not bothering with the argument, but @Counter - Luffy breaking Kuzan's body was anime-only. The only three characters we've seen break his ice are Doflamingo, Marco and Whitebeard. Jozu if we decide to count shattering his logiaform, even though that's counter-intuitive. Rest is either from non-canon sources, or the anime.
 
Again, Aokiji not shattering upon taking any attack is counter-intuitive and would make him act differently than every other Logia (cept BB's). Only time he didn't is when he decided to freeze the monster trio.
 
What are the conclusions here?
 
If up scaling is accepted:

"High 7-A, higher with shishi sonson and Asura"

Or

"At least 7-A+, possibly High 7-A, higher with Shishi sonson and Asura"

If it isn't:

Then he would remain "at least 7-A+" but so information needs to be put in for Shishi sonson being classed as higher and Asura needs to be accepted either via it's multiplier (High 7-A) or higher as well. For example:

"At least 7-A+, higher with Shishi sonson, at least High 7-A with Asura"
 
As far only Cin has disagreed on the basis of his own opinion, up scaling is flawed and the majority agree with it. So the first suggestion works.
 
@Prince of Counters; I have also disagreed with it.

I consider the current description to be more accurate than upscaling which seems pretty arbitrary to me.
 
On the same basis as Cin, no valid counter arguments were given other than "I think it's better at the moment." again, up scaling is an accepted method here unless you wish to make a CRT about up scaling, until then this is essentially cut clear.
 
Just because it is used by some verses doesn't mean we need to upscale every profile on the wiki.

You should demonstrate why it would be better to upscale in this case.
 
A lot of verses use it, again it's an accepted method there is zero reason to cherry pick here by not using it here but using it for others for the same exact reason.


Already have Damage.
 
We do tend to upscale characters that are significantly above other ones that are very close to the upper border of a tier, yes.
 
Damage3245 said:
Just because it is used by some verses doesn't mean we need to upscale every profile on the wiki.

You should demonstrate why it would be better to upscale in this case.
Click to expand...
It's fine to upscale.
 
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