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Zeref Dragneel - Clean up CRT

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LordGinSama

LordGinSama

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Pretty simple thread this time around and this thread is gonna be for the addition and removal of some Zeref's powers and abilities.


*Intelligence: Zeref's intelligence is currently marked as Genius, which is dandy and all but I feel like it doesn't quite match up with his feats. For example, Zeref has created several v4ry complex machinery which deal with Space-Time, and has very extensive knowledge regarding most forms of magical devices that tinker with similar concepts. That being said, his creation of machines that manipulate time should qualify for Super genius level Intellect.


* Removing Spatial Manipulation for base Zeref: Zeref shouldn't get Spatial Manipulation based off of him sealing the Space between Time. This should be rewritten as Sealing (Can seal dimensions from one another.)

* Removal of durability Negation: He shouldn't have this under his powers and abilities, as Death Manipulation by default ignores durability. It's a redundant ability to be quite frank with you. No different than me listing Durability negation after Void Manipulation.


* Addition of Barrier Creation: Zeref has shown the ability to wrap himself in his Death Magic in order to block attacks and kill them as well.


* Removal of Transmutation: Changing the outward appearance of something isn't Transmutation but what it is, is Biological manipulation. So instead of Transmutation he'd get limited Biological manipulation.

And that's all but I'd also like a reference for Zeref's light and fire magic manipulation.
 
Doesn't fire magic come from burning a book at the end of Tartaros?

Anyhow, I agree with everything else.
 
I think durability negation/ light manipulation comes from Law but for some reason It's not listed on his power and abilities section, which is weird because he taught it to Mavis and knows how long it takes to master it. So he should just get Law added to his abilities section
 
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I agree as well, if no counter arguments are made, but I think intelligence should be extraordinary genius, given how other characters are rated.
 
SamanPatou said:
I agree as well, if no counter arguments are made, but I think intelligence should be extraordinary genius, given how other characters are rated.
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Interchangeable terms really but that could also work.
Zackra1799 said:
I think durability negation comes from Law but for some reason It's not listed on his power and abilities section, which is weird because he taught it to Mavis and knows how long it takes to master it. So he should just get Law added to his abilities section
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We should also discuss on what Law is? Law is a inferior version of Fairy Law, with the latter being coma / instant KO based durability negation and the former just being a blast of light magical light. Law was a failed version of Fairy Law, so it shouldn't have the durability aspect of Fairy Law unless it was stated otherwise.
 
All of this seems fine, as for Law, it being an incomplete version of Fairy Law doesn't mean it lacks Durability Negation, it's flat out said to work the same as Fairy Law, it's just that Mavis wasn't able to control the consequences of what using that magic meant, meaning she traded using that magic for getting the Curse of Contradiction
 
“Eventually, Mavis modified and improved Law by removing its side effect whenever it is used, setting it as the basis for Fairy Law”

this is apparently what was said in “Monthly Fairy Tail: Volume 13 Mashima Hiro-Sensei Long Interview”

so if that’s the case Fairy law and law are pretty much the same thing just without the side affects of Law
 
Zackra1799 said:
Also given were discussing Law, users of it and it's variations should be given Purification given it separated Yuri from the Dragon Bones and destroyed the Evil powers within the Tenrou orb that had corrupted him

and Fear inducement given it left Jose in trembling state of fear
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Fairy Law is also stated to be used as a deterrent Magic In order to stop enemies from attacking https://***********.com/read-online/Fairy-Tail-chapter-215-page-17.html

so I think maybe fear inducement could work
 
I think these changes look good. Also, as said before, his Fire Manipulation comes from burning Mard Geer's book and his Light Manipulation comes from Law.
 
Why would creating space-time magic be Supergenius? It's not something that would get such a rating with just by having vast knowledge and being able to create such magics/spells. If it were, then there would be hundreds of such charaters from other verses who can manipulate time-space and create such abilities. Extraordinary Genius - I can agree with it but not Supergenius.
 
Zaratthustra said:
Why would creating space-time magic be Supergenius? It's not something that would get such a rating with just by having vast knowledge and being able to create such magics/spells. If it were, then there would be hundreds of such charaters from other verses who can manipulate time-space and create such abilities. Extraordinary Genius - I can agree with it but not Supergenius.
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Well it's not just space time manipulation, as he created resurrection based magic and time portals as a kid/teen. Some of his better feats are him creating an entirely different energy system called curses, as well as creating life forms smart enough to figure out a way to manipulate the concepts of Life and Death itself and Zeref didn't even consider this an impressive feat.
 
Most of these look good, but Supergenius was something that's usually preferred elaborance. I know Genius is being Einstien or Newton level intellect, Extrodinary Genius is being a human supercomputer, and Supergenius is basically being able to construct super potent reality warping technologies from scratch. Inventing Time Travel and Time manipulation machines sounds more in line with Extraordinary Genius as far as I know.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Most of these look good, but Supergenius was something that's usually preferred elaborance. I know Genius is being Einstien or Newton level intellect, Extrodinary Genius is being a human supercomputer, and Supergenius is basically being able to construct super potent reality warping technologies from scratch. Inventing Time Travel and Time manipulation machines sounds more in line with Extraordinary Genius as far as I know.
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What about the stuff I mentioned such as considering the creation of Conceptual manip unimpressive and inventing an entirely different energy system just because the current one didn't have what he wanted.
 
Conceptual stuff via technology can probably be Supergenius then.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Conceptual stuff via technology can probably be Supergenius then.
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Well it wasn't done via technology although they are fundamentally the same as you need insane amounts of research just to create some of the magic Zeref did as a child/teen it was done via curses which is the mentioned energy system in Fairy Tail that Zeref invented. So would Extraordinary Genius normally, Supergenius in terms of magic and curses work?
 
I don't think the Mard stuff can be used tbh, I wouldn't really use that as an intelligence feat since it's hax based rather than Mard figuring out a way to destroy the concepts of life via sheer calculations and research.


Curses are basically Magic in function but instead of being based on Etherano it's based on Negative Emotions.



But the creation of Neo Eclipse and the Gates should qualify imo.
 
Zeref also kinda casually established and grew an entire empire made up of 100+ Guilds with some of the strongest people in the world just cause he was bored
 
Creating an empire with 100+ guilds is not a supergenius feat or something to sustain it...Emperor Vitiate created an Empire over an entire Galaxy..still not supergenius. Bulma who can create time machines, light guns at age 5, and all kind of technology is not supergenius. Accelerator whose intellect supersede 100 supercomputers who is able to computate 25k of different type of energies on the go is not supergenius. Doctor Strange has created his own forms of magics, master most of them across the entire existence, still not a supergenius. Qin Yu exceed 200k of supercomputers, where only one can create space ships that have living AI and can travel through to other Universes, he also mastered all means of spatial-time magic across countless Universes, still not a supergenius. Rimuru can analyze all phenomena, can computate the success rate of any task, can predict future through calculation, also created an empire, exceed a quanum computer, has vaster knowledge than Zeref can even dream, still not supergenius. Xue Ying can comprehend almost any technique/law he put his mind on (where one needs to understand why it works, how it works, how it can be used, etc before one can use it), can create for 1 trillion of characters at the same time different illusions in which he teaches them something different, technique/laws that include space-time spells, having enough knowledge to do that for 1000 years for each of them, can construct ships that transverse the river of space-time, still not a supergenius.

If creating space-time spells, having a vast amount of knowledge and creating an empire was enough for Supergenius, then we would have to give to most users who created their own arts/technique/skills Supergenius.
 
Since Zara wants me to flex on people with Marvel dudes here cuz smarts I'll just go with an example of a dude who created his own powers

Radioactive Man is an expert in nuclear science and is the guy who made his own power which gave him a ton of shit, not to mention he's often shown to work on devices that suppose to harness tons of energies, and he figured the wavelength needed to hit intangible Knee soldiers (before anyone says Moon Stone helped him, yah no way she's a psychologist so at best he used her Kree stone inside her as a reference point) and he's only genius so Zeref is a nope
 
Zaratthustra said:
Creating an empire with 100+ guilds is not a supergenius feat or something to sustain it...Emperor Vitiate created an Empire over an entire Galaxy..still not supergenius. Bulma who can create time machines, light guns at age 5, and all kind of technology is not supergenius. Accelerator whose intellect supersede 100 supercomputers who is able to computate 25k of different type of energies on the go is not supergenius. Doctor Strange has created his own forms of magics, master most of them across the entire existence, still not a supergenius. Qin Yu exceed 200k of supercomputers, where only one can create space ships that have living AI and can travel through to other Universes, he also mastered all means of spatial-time magic across countless Universes, still not a supergenius. Rimuru can analyze all phenomena, can computate the success rate of any task, can predict future through calculation, also created an empire, exceed a quanum computer, has vaster knowledge than Zeref can even dream, still not supergenius. Xue Ying can comprehend almost any technique/law he put his mind on (where one needs to understand why it works, how it works, how it can be used, etc before one can use it), can create for 1 trillion of characters at the same time different illusions in which he teaches them something different, technique/laws that include space-time spells, having enough knowledge to do that for 1000 years for each of them, can construct ships that transverse the river of space-time, still not a supergenius.

If creating space-time spells, having a vast amount of knowledge and creating an empire was enough for Supergenius, then we would have to give to most users who created their own arts/technique/skills Supergenius.
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I think that's pretty fair reasoning imo, although I feel like some of them could qualify for Super Genius given some of those feats would be vastly superior to the combined strength of Modern tech, Qin Yu for example being smarter than 200k super computers more advanced that our 500 supercomputers we have on earth today.
 
I disagree with supergenius. First off, we have to consider how easy it is to accomplish a task relative to the verse itself - for example, making a computer in 2020 isn’t the hardest thing in the world, but making it in 1020... Well, fair bit harder.

Fairy Tail is filled with magical abilities, including space-warping and time-warping abilities. Making a machine that messes with such isn’t absurdly impressive - sure, he’s a genius, but ABSOLUTELY not a supergenius. That feat alone means nothing, or not nearly enough.
 
Frankly I don’t really care whether we label him as a Genius or Super Genius, just whatever fits best
 
I agree that Super Genius seems like a bit much for the likes of Zeref with the explanations given. I feel like extraordinary Genius works best for Zeref given his various feats were done as a kid or when he first got his immortality and he's had hundreds of years to increase his intelligence since then, although my confusion came from the weird wording in the intelligence page so maybe that might need look at but that is a different topic.
 
An example of a supergenius feat is construction a Tier 2 or above Reality warping technology from scratch using some typical nerd gear basically. Or having super broken levels of Subjective Reality via technology inventions.
 
Well his experiments and studies as a teenager interfered with the concepts of life and death due to which he has been cursed. Shortly after he also created Life (demons), several curses, built a time-travel machine with no guidance into that path, he has been accumulating knowledge on magic for 400 years since. His intellect is also superior to irene who again is superior among Dragons in terms of intellect (via being a sage dragon) where dragons themselves view human intelligence akin to that of a bugs' (stated in Tenrou Island)

Whatever that would be
 
and well considering Orochimaru is an extraordinary genius, he would have to be that Tier as well at least
 
Zeref is implied to be a superior enchanter to Irene iirc and the very basics of enchantment include changing the density of a material (Irene does it in the very initial stages of her training). Would changing the density of a material come under transmutation?
 
Nerd1435 said:
Zeref is implied to be a superior enchanter to Irene iirc and the very basics of enchantment include changing the density of a material (Irene does it in the very initial stages of her training). Would changing the density of a material come under transmutation?
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He isn't implied to be better, he flat out is better at Enchantment, Irene couldn't turn herself into a Human via Enchantment in 400 Years, and Zeref did it in 1 Second, Irene said it would take a decent deal of time to extract Fairy Heart from Mavis and Zeref did it in less than a minute, Acnologia also implies that Irene was taught by Zeref
 
Zeref doesn't meet the solid requirements to qualified for Supergenius:
  • Supergenius: The highest level of non-omniscient intellect, possessed by those individuals with unfathomably superhuman intelligence and usually extensive mastery of most, or all, branches of science. Characters of such a scale tend to be super scientists capable of creating impossibly advanced physics-defying and reality-warping fantasy technology even with just household items, and outsmarting even other extremely intelligent individuals. Supergeniuses can often easily process calculations beyond modern humanity's combined capabilities on their own, and quickly come up with extremely complex plans.

Zeref's intelligence is Extraordinary Genius, at best. Zeref is a genius in magic. He mastered Black Arts, created many demons like Etherious Demons and others, created the R system for the resurrection which was deemed impossible before he proved it was feasible, created the Eclipse Gate which allowed time travel in the verse. Ultear, at best, could reverse time one minute which nearly killed her and also aged her considerably, with a forbidden technique.

Edit: I would be fine with the intelligence as Extraordinary Genius.

The other changes are fine, with me.
 
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