Zeno vs Gold Experience Requiem 🔥

[Zabazab]

As soon as Zeno tries to like, clap his hands to erase Giorno, he will be stuck trying to clap over and over forever. Giorno will be unaffected. He can just walk up to stuck Zeno and experiment to see what kills him, or just leave since Zeno being stuck like that is an incap gg

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Lol

 

[Chariot190]

But you just said that timeskip is not harmfull to Giorno.

Yeah? It wasn't? RTZ semi-auto, King went to attack, RTZ said nope, stopped the attack, and gave GER back control so he could be cognizant and act, while halting King Crimson?
Diavalo even makes note GER is taking action now?

...

Unironically not even joking. It's the whole reason why Diavolo can't just punch dudes apart in time skip, he can't actually interact with anything, nor things him, it's why shit phases through him. Blood is the same, Vel makes note of it, it's kinda like how Josuke can't heal himself, but his blood when it exists is no longer him so he can, or how Gio can turn his dried blood into ants.

It really don't.

Bruh if RTZ is affecting the whole universe at that moment....

That comment is more like about Giorno using Poison to affect Zeno, and my response being Zeno can just avoid with his speed.

Can't, RTZ'd.

If GER automatic defense only activates when something is about to harm him, then i don't see why Zeno moving só fast that Giorno can't even react anymore to actually reset his actions to Zero.

Because GER can use it manually too? Semi-automatic lad.
See the most famous example of RTZ, the death loop, where he kills Diavolo and sets his death to 0 so he can never reach the act of dying.

Is this your cathphrase, because almost every reply have a "what?"

What is a very common word, often used in response to something, usually in a questive manner.

Can just nuke that out of his page then? Because

I'm doing Part 3 CRT atm, ask DRW001 also i thought we removed it ages ago

 

[StrymULTRA]

This is why I stopped bothering with Jojo scaling from a good while lol.

 

[Chariot190]

The issue isn't even JoJo, it's ******* Zeno being able to do shit he's demonstrably shown not to do 19 times.

 

[Ss3micah]

As soon as Zeno tries to like, clap his hands to erase Giorno, he will be stuck trying to clap over and over forever. Giorno will be unaffected. He can just walk up to stuck Zeno and experiment to see what kills him, or just leave since Zeno being stuck like that is an incap gg

I did not see that happening to Diavolo during his battle. GER RtZ Diavolo back to square one and while Diavolo was lost in thought he went for the blitz and killed him.

At no point however did I see Gio nor GER moving while RtZ was active. Only once it’s effects conclude and everything was back at square zero did they start moving.

Is there something I’m genuinely missing that shows that GER and Gio moves during RtZ being in effects?

Because if not then Gio and GER can only move after RtZ effects stop at which point Zeno would hand raise and then RtZ happens again and so on and so forth

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Voting Giorno for Strym’s reasons

 

[Ss3micah]

If I’m missing something then please point when GER takes independent MOVEMENT action while RtZ was in effect.

 

[Zabazab]

At no point however did I see Gio nor GER moving while RtZ was active. Only once it’s effects conclude and everything was back at square zero did they start moving.

He pauses RTZ to talk shit to Diavolo. Additionally, he has no issue moving while Diavolo's death is being constantly RTZ'd.

 

[Ikelaggan]

This is already bigger.

True, but sans vs Frieza is a long way

 

[Chariot190]

I did not see that happening to Diavolo during his battle. GER RtZ Diavolo back to square one and while Diavolo was lost in thought he went for the blitz and killed him.

Blitz? Diavolo saw him coming.

At no point however did I see Gio nor GER moving while RtZ was active. Only once it’s effects conclude and everything was back at square zero did they start moving.

He literally had a whole ass monologue, twice.

Is there something I’m genuinely missing that shows that GER and Gio moves during RtZ being in effects?

When Diavolo was frozen and GER posed and started talking shit for like 2 minutes.

Also the whole death loop? Why are we just forgetting Diavolo dying forever, on repeat, is just the act of dying being set to 0 so whenever he would die, he just goes back, while everyone else continues on happily

Because if not then Gio and GER can only move after RtZ effects stop at which point Zeno would hand raise and then RtZ happens again and so on and so forth

See above.

 

[Ss3micah]

He pauses RTZ to talk shit to Diavolo.

He’s not showing nor exerting any actual movement thou.
Heck his body remains still the entire time

It’s almost kind like how Pucci could see in Jotaro’s time stop but not actually execute physical body movement. Just the movement of his brain and his eyes

Additionally, he has no issue moving while Diavolo's death is being constantly RTZ'd.

Yeah
Everyone had no issues moving when Diavolo was being in infinite death loop
Gio, Mista, Polnareff and pretty everyone ever still moves while Diavolo is being constantly death looped by RtZ to present day

 

[Chariot190]

He’s not showing nor exerting any actual movement thou.

He moves his arms tho,
Also death loop
Also healing Gio

Yeah
Everyone had no issues moving when Diavolo was being in infinite death loop
Gio, Mista, Polnareff and pretty everyone ever still moves while Diavolo is being constantly death looped by RtZ to present day

Yeah? Because they weren't RTZ to not be able? What sort of statement is that. No shit they can move, they're not the dudes stuck in a loop.

 

[Ss3micah]

Blitz? Diavolo saw him coming.

Interesting
Why you think he did nothing to try and counter him then?

This is a genuine question

He literally had a whole ass monologue, twice.

You know it’s kind of a stretch but not stretch to say just because he could move his mouth means he could move everything else despite not showing the capability

Even more so since that was specifically GER not Gio. And during the obliteration of Diavolo we saw that both Gio and GER had to move up close to DIavolo to get the stand rush off

So it’s kind of debatable
Even if you wanna say that YEAH completely GER can move in RTZ
It becomes iffy to say that Gio can since he’s completely unaware of RtZ and unlike GER never displayed any capabilities at all of moving in it
And then it becomes even more debatable to say GER could move 4KM away from Gio to be able to plant poison Hax on Zeno

What do you think?

 

[ZillertheBucko]

What even is the debate about rn

 

[TaiwaneseScaler]

For me Consider this the only plausible argument for Zeno we have is that GER wouldn't be able to perceive Zenos EE’s move as an attack as it is a fifth-dimensional play, and he wouldn't be able to identify a higher-dimensional maneuver. Though Giorno has the ability to manually control RTZ and they’re both in the mindset of a battle. So, I’m quite convinced that the moment Zeno makes a move, RTZ would respond in kind, manually and instantly.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Yeah? It wasn't? RTZ semi-auto, King went to attack, RTZ said nope, stopped the attack, and gave GER back control so he could be cognizant and act, while halting King Crimson?
Diavalo even makes note GER is taking action now?

No but like, If that's the case- you know what, i got tired in talking about this, i gonna ignore now.

Can't, RTZ'd.

Because GER can use it manually too? Semi-automatic lad.
See the most famous example of RTZ, the death loop, where he kills Diavolo and sets his death to 0 so he can never reach the act of dying.

So i din't understand your answer, since Zeno is not doing anything harmfull to Giorno by just dodging, how the semi automatic thing would be able to affect Zeno?
Like, by what the wiki is saying, Giorno can use RTZ himself and neg Zeno movements. What i asking is, since Zeno is so fast, how Giorno gonna be able to react to Zeno, If Zeno is massively faster than him, and use the RTZ.

 

[Chariot190]

Interesting
Why you think he did nothing to try and counter him then?

This is a genuine question

Because he couldn't?

You know it’s kind of a stretch but not stretch to say just because he could move his mouth means he could move everything else despite not showing the capability

Moved his hands though. Also Diavolo straight up says only he should be moving, kinda confirming.

Even more so since that was specifically GER not Gio. And during the obliteration of Diavolo we saw that both Gio and GER had to move up close to DIavolo to get the stand rush off

Yeah, punching someone involves moving close to punch.
Also, are you forgetting time was not only skipped, but was frozen in that exact moment in the prior scene? Of course he wasn't moving outside his effective range? Why leave that part out?

So it’s kind of debatable

It isn't, at all, you're saying because he didn't move much in the scene where everything was halted so he could talk shit, in the moment time ceased to exist, means he can't move when he's RTZ'ing? When we know he can because he did on screen with Diavolo's death? Gio too actually, Trish panics saying she can sense him and Gio is like nah man, he's done.

Even if you wanna say that YEAH completely GER can move in RTZ It becomes iffy to say that Gio can since he’s completely unaware of RtZ and unlike GER never displayed any capabilities at all of moving in it

Are you confusing him RTZ'ing the whole universe to restore deleted time with how RTZ always acts? RTZ doesn't need to effect the whole universe, Gio included, to RTZ one dude doing one action.

And then it becomes even more debatable to say GER could move 4KM away from Gio to be able to plant poison Hax on Zeno

I mean, Zeno can't move. He can.

 

[Shubham_Sonsurkar]

Wouldn't his position will also be RTZ'd?

 

[Chariot190]

So i din't understand your answer, since Zeno is not doing anything harmfull to Giorno by just dodging, how the semi automatic thing would be able to affect Zeno?

Oh, no the dodging would be manual use.
Just make it so whenever he tries to dodge, he gets put back.
Also, why would he dodge, he can't even see GER?

Like, by what the wiki is saying, Giorno can use RTZ himself and neg Zeno movements. What i asking is, since Zeno is so fast, how Giorno gonna be able to react to Zeno, If Zeno is massively faster than him, and use the RTZ.

Because why couldn't he? Sure, Zeno can dodge, but then what? He can't attack him back, eventually Gio is gonna be able to RTZ him dodging, or more specifically, him moving from that spot, and Zeno cant stop it, even if Zeno could dodge a million trillion times in the time Gio reacts to it, it doesnt mean anything if he cant retaliate back, and at that point he just has to wait for when GER can say nah my dude.

 

[Chariot190]

Wouldn't his position will also be RTZ'd?

Probably but only one dude actually brought up the will aspect so far.

 

[Ss3micah]

Are you confusing him RTZ'ing the whole universe to restore deleted time with how RTZ always acts? RTZ doesn't need to effect the whole universe, Gio included, to RTZ one dude doing one action.

I mean, Zeno can't move. He can.

Nahhh
The argument here is GER can win via poison hax
GER still has to land the poison Hax on Zeno and SBA distance is 4KM and we know that Gio can’t move in RTZ. Only GER (arguably)

So the question then becomes
To land this poison Hax…
GER would need to capable of moving 4KM away from Gio to be able to place poison Hax on Zeno

So what’s the premise here that Gives GER the ability to move that far away from Gio? Cause as I recall GER can’t spawn and move outside of a few meters from Gio’s current position. So how does GER move 4KM away from Gio and to Zeno to land posion Hax?

 

[Chariot190]

What even is the debate about rn

Can Zeno's EE retroactively delete someone before he uses it, so even if he could get RTZ'd, because he used it in the future, it effects the past and thus he already won before the match even began.

The argument here is GER can win via poison has
GER still has to land the poison Hax on Zeno and SBA distance is 4KM and we know that Gio can’t move in RTZ. Only GER (arguably)

Ok you literally are huh.
RTZ isn't some ability like Time Stop or Time Skip dude, the only time Gio couldn't move in RTZ, was when RTZ was happening within deleted time, and GER froze everything.

This is not the same as RTZ negging a specific thing or action, such as a death, throwing a punch, an injury, or whatnot.

So the question then becomes
To land this poison Hax…
GER would need to capable of moving 4KM away from Gio to be able to place position Hax on Zeno

Bruh they just float toward him. Zeno can't move, they can.

So what’s the premise here that Gives GER the ability to move that far away from Gio? Cause as I recall GER can’t spawn and move outside of a few meters from Gio’s current position. So how does GER move 4KM away from Gio and to Zeno to land prison Hax?

That is true probably, it's probably like 10m or something. What is't true is that they can't move when RTZ is active, anyone can move, RTZ isn't some AOE neg everything hax, it's just "hey this thing, no". You're confusing Gio being unable to act in deleted time, to mean he can't act in RTZ, when we know he can because he does, on screen, bro kills Diavolo, and while Diavolo is dying he's like "yeah trish, bro's ******, dont worry about him", and then it cuts back to Diavolo still being RTZ'd, and then confirmed verbatim this will last FOREVER.
Even ignoring that, GER healing Gio, and fugo in PHF

 

[Ss3micah]

Can Zeno's EE retroactively delete someone before he uses it, so even if he could get RTZ'd, because he used it in the future, it effects the past and thus he already won before the match even began.

Ok you literally are huh.
RTZ isn't some ability like Time Stop or Time Skip dude, the only time Gio couldn't move in RTZ, was when RTZ was happening within deleted time, and GER froze everything.

This is not the same as RTZ negging a specific thing or action, such as a death, throwing a punch, an injury, or whatnot.

Bruh they just float toward him. Zeno can't move, they can.

That is true probably, it's probably like 10m or something. What is't true is that they can't move when RTZ is active, anyone can move, RTZ isn't some AOE neg everything hax, it's just "hey this thing, no". You're confusing Gio being unable to act in deleted time, to mean he can't act in RTZ, when we know he can because he does, on screen, bro kills Diavolo, and while Diavolo is dying he's like "yeah trish, bro's ******, dont worry about him", and then it cuts back to Diavolo still being RTZ'd, and then confirmed verbatim this will last FOREVER.
Even ignoring that, GER healing Gio, and fugo in PHF

Okay I’m now confused
If RtZ isn’t time stop like you say then why exactly can’t Zeno move when it’s triggered
As far as I’ve seen the ability used it reverts actions moment by moment to their initial stage.

This application of outright freezing you or halting you at your initial phase and preventing you from moving for significant amount of time is news to me

Can you explain it please?

 

[Fezzih_007]

Oh, no the dodging would be manual use.
Just make it so whenever he tries to dodge, he gets put back.

Ah.

Also, why would he dodge, he can't even see GER?

He can sense him trought.

Because why couldn't he?

I just said why.

Sure, Zeno can dodge, but then what?

He also can put a defensive barrier, so Giorno can actually attack him too.

He can't attack him back, eventually Gio is gonna be able to RTZ him dodging, or more specifically, him moving from that spot, and Zeno cant stop it, even if Zeno could dodge a million trillion times in the time Gio reacts to it, it doesnt mean anything if he cant retaliate back, and at that point he just has to wait for when GER can say nah my dude.

So you know, Inconclusive.
Well, i guess i gonna do the Immerasurable speed attack to Zeno now.

 

[Chariot190]

If RtZ isn’t time stop like you say then why exactly can’t Zeno move when it’s triggered
As far as I’ve seen the ability used it reverts actions moment by moment to their initial stage.

Yes, exactly!
The thing is, it can be set so it's continuous, on and on, forever. Zeno can move, he just can't take action or do the thing that was permanulled.

If the act of him gesturing gets RTZ'd and made to never happen, he can try and try, but each time he's about to perform that action, he gets put back.

He isn't frozen like time stop, he just can't finish attacking. It's the exact same way as how Diavolo could act, but he could not die, the moment before he died, he was set back to 0. Just swap "death" with "using EE or something" in this context.

 

[Chariot190]

He can sense him trought.

Can he? Stands +1 ESP. I know Goku and lads can sense ghosts and stuff tho, but that's baseline. Do they have an extra layer?

He also can put a defensive barrier, so Giorno can actually attack him too.

RTZ him putting it up in the same way he RTZ'd deleted time and made it so it didn't happen?

Well, i guess i gonna do the Immerasurable speed attack to Zeno now.

but why, it literally isnt real.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Can Giorno even see for 4km away to actually use manually RTZ?

Can he? Stands +1 ESP. I know Goku and lads can sense ghosts and stuff tho, but that's baseline. Do they have an extra layer?

Probally.
Les't see, we have normal people who can sense Ki, but they can't sense God Ki, because they have resistance or something, and Zeno as a god, can sense both.

RTZ him putting it up in the same way he RTZ'd deleted Diavolo timeskip and made it so it didn't happen?

And then Zeno put a barrier again. I don't see Giorno would be able to poison his while RtZ his barrier, while Zeno is putting that barrier ALL the time, and also the speed difference.

but why, it literally isnt real.

You know who else inst real?

 

[Ss3micah]

Yes, exactly!
The thing is, it can be set so it's continuous, on and on, forever. Zeno can move, he just can't take action or do the thing that was permanulled.

If the act of him gesturing gets RTZ'd and made to never happen, he can try and try, but each time he's about to perform that action, he gets put back.

He isn't frozen like time stop, he just can't finish attacking. It's the exact same way as how Diavolo could act, but he could not die, the moment before he died, he was set back to 0. Just swap "death" with "using EE or something" in this context.

Alright
Considering all that and let’s say on the chance your right and Gio can move during RtZ constantly looping Zeno

They would still need to walk 4KM to get over to Zeno’s location
And then there is matter of if the posion would work considering that they are inflicted by Snake and Scorpion venom

And there is no way Snake fangs and Scrorpion stings would pierce a durability on the level of Zeno.
Even if you wanna argue the snakes and scorpions have the same AP as GER then still would not be enough for Snake Fangs and Scorpion tails to be able to pierce the durability of Zeno to inject the Venom

So how exactly does the poison Hax affect Zeno now?

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

And then there is matter of if the posion would work considering that they are inflicted by Snake and Scorpion venom

Frog

 

[Ss3micah]

Frog

What frog

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Zeno can erase the past if his erasure is carried out in the present.
He will never do it in the present because GER is there to stop it from ever happening. Erasing the past is the equivalent of just making a bigger explosion to prevent your bomb from getting defused (because that’s not how it works at all)
this doesn’t really seem like it should be a debate

 

[Zabazab]

What frog

Golden poison frog - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Chariot190]

Can Giorno even see for 4km away to actually use manually RTZ?

Doesn't need to?
The automatic part protects him till he just gets close enough.
Also GER uses RTZ, not Gio and GER has enhanced senses so idk probably
like tbh i wonder if he can upscale from plat, there might be a statement actually, i need to check

Probally.
Les't see, we have normal people who can sense Ki, but they can't sense God Ki, because they have resistance or something, and Zeno as a god, can sense both

Ki isn't stand energy tho, and that's sensing, not seeing, bro GER got like a pl of 20

And then Zeno put a barrier again. I don't see Giorno would be able to poison his while RtZ his barrier, while Zeno is putting that barrier ALL the time, and also the speed difference.

Just make it so that action cant happen? Just like everything else? You know he can RTZ something, then RTZ another thing too right? Diavolo himself had his abilities RTZ'd and his death, at the same time.
Speed difference fair, but only till it gets RTZ'd.

You know who else inst real?

Time Skip. RTZ should have NEP interaction because it effected something that didn't exist

Alright Considering all that and let’s say on the chance your right and Gio can move during RtZ constantly looping Zeno

Why is this even a debate, his most famous feat is RTZ looping a dude and then ging on to take over his gang...

They would still need to walk 4KM to get over to Zeno’s location

Yes. But, 4km ain't much, what take him like 2 minutes ig?

And then there is matter of if the posion would work considering that they are inflicted by Snake and Scorpion venom

Just use a different animal that doesn't need to puncture? Like idk there's that jellyfish that's toxic to touch ig, or frog.

And there is no way Snake fangs and Scrorpion stings would pierce a durability on the level of Zeno.

That is true.

Even if you wanna argue the snakes and scorpions have the same AP as GER then still would not be enough for Snake Fangs and Scorpion tails to be able to pierce the durability of Zeno to inject the Venom

That is also true.

So how exactly does the poison Hax affect Zeno now?

Stuff a frog in his mouth

What frog

Frog

 

[Ss3micah]

Yes. But, 4km ain't much, what take him like 2 minutes ig?

Not this that movement speed
He’s probably takes couple minutes up to an hour but that’s besides the point

Just use a different animal that doesn't need to puncture? Like idk there's that jellyfish that's toxic to touch ig, or frog.

This here
THIS RIGHT HERE is assuming now that Gio has the convenient knowledge to know about the Poison Dart frog. Which is not supported well due to fact he never relied on such things and the only animals he resorted on for poison are those that people with general knowledge would know are poisonous. Such as snakes and scorpions.

And I don’t think Gio is studied biology or watch the discover channel either so to assume he’d know of animals that are poison to the touch like the Poison dart frog or the Box Jelly Fish is a stretch. Even more so since he never relies on those super convenient means for poison IC.

NOT SAYING it’s impossible. Just heavily improbable all things considered and given what we see and what common creates Gio knows.

Stuff a frog in his mouth

1. Useless unless it’s the poison dart frog
2. Out of character for Gio to even know about the Poison dart frog
3. Out of character for Gio to go for what evil and unholy tactic is being presented here. That’s just evil

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

I see a lot of discussion about Zeno’s EE is the debate about if Zeno has History EE or nah??

 

[Ss3micah]

I see a lot of discussion about Zeno’s EE is the debate about if Zeno has History EE or nah??

That really doesn’t matter here
Cause causality Hax makes it so Zeno will never use it

 

[Ss3micah]

Honestly
I also think the OP chose the wrong DB character for Giorno

 

[Fezzih_007]

Doesn't need to?
The automatic part protects him till he just gets close enough.
Also GER uses RTZ, not Gio and GER has enhanced senses so idk probably

Not for the protection stuff, i asking for the manually making Zeno stay in one place while he is getting in Zeno location.

Ki isn't stand energy tho

Verse equalization, don't worry about It.

and that's sensing, not seeing, bro GER got like a pl of 20

Yeah, he can sense him to avoid.
And If Golden requiem is High 8-C, he is actually stronger.

Just make it so that action cant happen? Just like everything else? You know he can RTZ something, then RTZ another thing too right? Diavolo himself had his abilities RTZ'd and his death, at the same time.

Ok so you din't understand, or i was not clear enough, Zeno gonna put a barrier up, and Giorno gonna use GER to revert that, then he try to affect Zeno with Poison, but because of the speed difference, he already gonna have a barrier up again to not be affected. If Giorno revert that, he gonna put another barrier, making Giorno hitting Zeno virtually Impossible.
Or not, maybe.

 

[Zabazab]

1. Useless unless it’s the poison dart frog
2. Out of character for Gio to even know about the Poison dart frog
3. Out of character for Gio to go for what evil and unholy tactic is being presented here. That’s just evil

1. True, though it's not the only poisonous animal in the world.
2. He absolutely knows about poisonous frogs, be realistic.
3. It is unlikely to be an early move yes. However, Giorno has as much time as he needs to eventually do that. He just experiments to see what works for like an hour or smthn.