Zelda 4-C upgrades (Or downgrades now)

[Dust_Collector]

Since someone was going to do it sooner or later based on my other thread I decided screw it why not even if I personally disagree. So the general gist of it is that all the High 5-A characters should be "High 5-A to 4-C" since the assumption that Ganon is moving the sun and moon to create night around his fortress is just as likely as the planet rotation assumption.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xHGY9CtIg_M (4:08 mark)

Apparently Ganondorf is likely moving the moon and sun to create night around his fortress (There's just as much proof as planet rotation), don't agree with it myself due to the lack of concrete evidence to prove what exactly Ganon is doing but thought may as well get this outta the way for those who wanted this.

Edit: Looks like we're gonna be downgrading the High 5-A characters instead.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Possibly 4-C I agree with.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

You did mention on another thread that the Endless Night Curse is generally treated as a 5-C feat; was there a source for that?

Anyway, at least 5-C, possibly 4-C is something I can support.

 

[Dust_Collector]

The reason for 5-C was that we treat Ganons endless night curse as his stopping the planets rotation and orbit, which was calculated at a little above baseline Moon level iirc.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Bump

 

[Dark649]

I think this is just planet rotations.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

It could be moving of the moon/sun since calamity had a feat of moving the blood moon.

 

[Dust_Collector]

I think this is just planet rotations.

Problem is that planet rotation has literally nothing backing it up more than moving the sun and moon (Which was one of my main points for ignoring the thing altogether since we have no idea what's actually happening), no statements or anything that makes it more likely than Ganon moving the sun itself.

If we're going to keep treating this as we currently do, no other option than "High 5-A to 4-C (Either rotated the planet or moved the sun and moon to create night around his fortress)" can be done since neither explanation has anything over the other since we have 0 statements that say or imply what he's exactly doing. If we accept High 5-A we have to accept 4-C as well since it is 100% as likely to be as true as planet rotation, either that or we drop the thing entirely since we can't actually prove anything about what Ganon is doing.

 

[Dark649]

Where was discussed that moving the sun is 4-C?.

 

[Dust_Collector]

We treat moving stuff like the sun at FTL speed (Which is how fast he's supposedly moving it) as baseline Star level, don't remember where exactly that was dicussed tho.

 

[Dark649]

Doesn't that end up to also upgrade his speed?.

 

[Dust_Collector]

I dunno

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Thinking of it as similar to how we treat the My Little Pony god tiers such as Princess Celestia. Moving the sun scales to AP and telekinetic lifting strength, but not really speed since unless they physically move their body as said speed.

 

[Dust_Collector]

This would also have to give Ganon Stellar lifting strength via Telekinesis.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I could go either way honestly...

 

[Dust_Collector]

Bump

 

[Konaguna]

the feat is like Planet level due to speed he doing that bruh, feat being tier 4 is a stretch by a lot

 

[Warren_Valion]

the feat is like Planet level due to speed he doing that bruh, feat being tier 4 is a stretch by a lot

The feat being tier 4 comes from the possibility of him moving the sun is as good as him moving the planet.

 

[Konaguna]

Wtf? No it isn't, if he moved the sun he'd **** up the entire solar system, he'd drag that shit out of alignment and permanently end any kind of normal rotation.

He rotated the planet, not the sun, You can even see it turned into nighttime after coming to the fortress. Plus he had one Planetary feat earlier, makes more sense to be just another Planetary feat rather than a full blown star dragging one.

I do agree the feat of rotation is legit, but moving anything other than a planet is very unlikely

 

[Warren_Valion]

Wtf? No it isn't, if he moved the sun he'd **** up the entire solar system, he'd drag that shit out of alignment and permanently end any kind of normal rotation.
He rotated the planet, not the sun, You can even see it turned into nighttime after coming to the fortress. Plus he had one Planetary feat earlier, makes more sense to be just another Planetary feat rather than a full blown star dragging one.

And forcefully rotating the planet at intense speeds wouldn't have physical drawbacks?

This is fiction, repercussions that stem from physics hardly ever apply.


And moving the Sun away would make it nighttime as well, I don't see your point.

The problem with this feat isn't that it could possibly be tier 4, but that it isn't a feat - it's a game mechanic.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Coming from someone that doesn't even support the feat scaling to anything other than a prep'd AP that isn't combat applicable, I agree that both assumptions are equally possible.

Furthermore, I believe when Link tries to use the Sun Song on Castle Town in OoT, it doesn't even affect the Endless Night around the town. So that leads it to some credence, imo.

 

[Konaguna]

You don't understand that if he rotated the sun he ***** up the alignment of heavenly bodies which would end rotation on the planet as they knew it .

Moving the sun would break day night cycles for reason I mentioned above.

It's not a game mechanic there is an actual explanation if you look at the compass and shit, plus it's not a single feat there's a similar one already in the same game.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

@Konaguna

If he stopped the planet's rotation, everyone on the plant would have been launched from it into orbit.

You see why that reasoning doesn't hold? Is a magical land, where a magic dude is doing magic stuff with celestial bodies.

 

[Warren_Valion]

You don't understand that if he rotated the sun he ***** up the alignment of heavenly bodies which would end rotation on the planet as they knew it .
Moving the sun would break day night cycles for reason I mentioned above.

It's not a game mechanic there is an actual explanation if you look at the compass and shit, plus it's not a single feat there's a similar one already in the same game.

I understand physics dude, fiction is the one that doesn't care.

You know people can't accelerate beyond the speed of light, right? That happens all the ******* time in fiction.

Saying that it can't be a certain tier because the physics doesn't make sense is like saying no one can be FTL because that's just physically impossible.


And no, Ganon's Endless Night Curse is a specific scenario that happened in the game and was said to happen in the game and be caused by Ganondorf.

It becoming night time when getting he gets the Fortress (assuming it was day time when sailing to the fortress) and when he leaves it becomes day time again is clearly not of the same caliber.

Where is the logic in saying that Ganon would move either the planet or sun just because Link is getting close to his fort? That makes no sense. Why would he waste the effort?

It's a game mechanic that's meant to set the mood and enrich the atmosphere, just like it was in Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Where is the logic in saying that Ganon would move either the planet or sun just because Link is getting close to his fort? That makes no sense. Why would he waste the effort?

There are plenty of reasons why he'd do that, like uh...um...

The fact that the whole thing about his fortress and it suddenly becoming night whenever you get there is never even mentioned whatsoever in the game or outside sources like the Hyrule Historia does indeed make it seem like a thing the game does to set up a specific atmosphere.

 

[Konaguna]

Except tier 4 single Triforce piece weirder feat is far too inconsistent and makes no sense given it would make pmanetary feats more consistent m.

There does not need to be any logic, it's just a random feat, like the storm thing, even tho he's done it it makes no sense, asking yourself about the motifs of a fictional character behind acts we can't understand is irrelevant.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

@Dust

And expanding to that, the feat from Wind Waker is specifically refered to be just a curse. Why would one very, and I mean very specific curse scale to anything of his? Heck, the curse was broken the moment Link gathered the final sea-pearl thing. And even then, the "night" is mostly rain clouds covering the sky.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Frankly, I don't mind a High 6-A downgrade.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Except tier 4 single Triforce piece weirder feat is far too inconsistent and makes no sense given it would make pmanetary feats more consistent m.
There does not need to be any logic, it's just a random feat, like the storm thing, even tho he's done it it makes no sense, asking yourself about the motifs of a fictional character behind acts we can't understand is irrelevant.

The Endless Night feat is 5-C according to others. What are planetary feats are you talking about?


And what? There doesn't need to be any logic for characters to do things?

Did you ever think that because there is no logic to the situation that maybe you reading into this situation and taking the "feat" as a feat, could very well be, in fact, a falsity?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Do the thread, Cal. ovo

 

[TriforcePower1]

Frankly, I don't mind a High 6-A downgrade.

They would still be 5-A from Calamity Ganon's feat though.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Except tier 4 single Triforce piece weirder feat is far too inconsistent and makes no sense given it would make pmanetary feats more consistent m.
There does not need to be any logic, it's just a random feat, like the storm thing, even tho he's done it it makes no sense, asking yourself about the motifs of a fictional character behind acts we can't understand is irrelevant.

How is it remotely inconsistent when any lower showing is done casually?

 

[Konaguna]

The Endless Night feat is 5-C according to others. What are planetary feats are you talking about?

And what? There doesn't need to be any logic for characters to do things?

Did you ever think that because there is no logic to the situation that maybe you reading into this situation and taking the "feat" as a feat, could very well be, in fact, a falsity?

"Did you ever think that because there is no logic to the situation that maybe you reading into this situation and taking the "feat" as a feat, could very well be, in fact, a falsity?"

Ooooooooohhhhhhhhhh I liek this one. Ohhh boi you don't even remotely know me if ya think I ain't never thought of such things. If that be the case and people actually cared, thing scouls have been a lot better today (looking at DS).

Yeah, there does not need to be an exact explanation for why these things are done, I could think of dozens of reasons why he'd do it but that wouldn't matter, feat still happened Thas a fact

 

[Konaguna]

There are plenty of reasons why he'd do that, like uh...um...

The fact that the whole thing about his fortress and it suddenly becoming night whenever you get there is never even mentioned whatsoever in the game or outside sources like the Hyrule Historia does indeed make it seem like a thing the game does to set up a specific atmosphere.

Seems like double standards to me since I literally said the exact same shit for dark souls and it wasn't true for that

 

[Konaguna]

How is it remotely inconsistent when any lower showing is done casually?

Stelllar feats are done by people with the full TF not one piece the gap between one piece and 3 of them is just way too low and is a complete stretch

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Can someone show/link the calc to the endless night feat? Cause now I'm really curious on how that got 5-C results but this got High 5-A.

 

[Konaguna]

Damn bruh I need sleep don't lock this up yo

 

[Warren_Valion]

Yeah, there does not need to be an exact explanation for why these things are done, I could think of dozens of reasons why he'd do it but that wouldn't matter, feat still happened Thas a fact

Ganon isn't crazy, quite the opposite, he's brilliant - so to say he would do something completely out of the realm of sense is ridiculous, and the simpler and more logical assumption is that interpreting this feat as a legitimate feat is wrong. Especially when something like this happens in two other Zelda games as well.

So if the "feat" is just a game mechanic, which it likely is, then no, it isn't a feat - that's the fact of the matter.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Ganon isn't crazy, quite the opposite, he's brilliant

Ahem (This is a joke btw)

 

[Antvasima]

So what are the conclusions here?