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Zelda 4-C upgrades (Or downgrades now)

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Seems like most people agree to getting rid of our current High 5-A ratings and downgrading them, but I'm not sure what tier they'll be downgraded to besides it not being any lower than High 6-A.
 
They'd be 5-A unless it's debunked. I still disagree with downgrading them from High 5-A btw. Depending on which ending was accepted in the 5-A calc, Ganon w/ ToP may even reach High 5-A by upscaling.
 
The 5-A calc doesn't even leave the double digit yottatons unless we decide to use very high ends of the moon being moved that far in just a few seconds (Which has already been rejected in favour of a timeframe of a few minutes), no upscaling is getting anyone close to High 5-A. Plus plently of people have issues with the 5-A stuff as well so maybe we should sort that out as well.
 
Can somebody write an easy to understand summary of the arguments for and against?
 
Sure thing.

For High 5-A to 4-C:

  • The sun and moon move across the sky when it becomes night at Ganons fortress which could mean either Ganon is rotating the planet or he's moving the sun and moon.
Against High 5-A to 4-C:

  • Nothing is ever mentioned about the sudden change to night at Ganons fortress in game or in outside sources, so it could be a game mechanic that automatically makes it night to set the atmosphere.
 
Okay. Perhaps "possibly" would be best then?
 
Maybe "possibly High 5-A to 4-C / higher" could work here but I'm not sure of what everyone else thinks about that. I personally don't think there should be a possibly since there's such a lack of information about the night stuff but that's not up to me to decide.
 
I can't remember where the 5-C calc came from (It should be in a old 2017 thread iirc) but the reason the endless night was calc'd as 5-C is because we assumed Ganon was stopping the planets rotation which was like baseline moon level while the current High 5-A calc is based on the planet being rotated which generates way more energy just simply stopping the planet.
 
Wasn't hyrule's size from BoTW calc'd to be like small planet? Shouldn't we re-calc and base the size of the planet off of that?
 
GiverOfThePeace said:
Wasn't hyrule's size from BoTW calc'd to be like small planet? Shouldn't we re-calc and base the size of the planet off of that?
Click to expand...
I...have my doubts about just the country of Hyrule being the size of a small planet.
 
The atmosphere argument imo is bullshit. You already had to explore forsaken fortress at the beginning of the game, second time is literally just walking through it, what kind of atmosphere do you expect from a dungeon you have to repeat?

There is literally nothing new to add that would make "atmosphere" better
 
Breath of the Wild did have a rough calc at that, but it's under the assumption that the world map of Breath of the Wild is the entire world, but we can see that it's not quite as the edges showcase vast unknown lands. And depending on the edge, there's oceans that can't are too far or mountains that are too tall to climb. Meaning the actual world would still be much bigger than the world map shown.

Anyway, Triforce brought more information about Calamity Ganon's feat so I still think 5-A is reasonable for those who scale from him. I'm more neutral on accepting Endless night as a 5-C, High 5-A, or 4-C feat, but I guess something like this. At least 5-A, possibly High 5-A to 4-C.
 
Konaguna said:
The atmosphere argument imo is bullshit. You already had to explore forsaken fortress at the beginning of the game, second time is literally just walking through it, what kind of atmosphere do you expect from a dungeon you have to repeat?
There is literally nothing new to add that would make "atmosphere" better
Click to expand...
The Forsaken Fortress is the enemy stronghold - and the way Wind Waker's narrative progressed at that point paints this as the final confrontation.

The "twist" is that the Master Sword's edge has dulled and thus it won't harm Ganondorf, so the story continues.


Setting up an atmosphere is to enhance the oppressiveness of the Forsaken Fortress is completely plausible.

And again, this isn't the first time this was done in the Zelda series - I could give two examples off the top of my head of something similar happening.
 
TriforcePower1 said:
They'd be 5-A unless it's debunked. I still disagree with downgrading them from High 5-A btw. Depending on which ending was accepted in the 5-A calc, Ganon w/ ToP may even reach High 5-A by upscaling.
Click to expand...
Isn't Calamity Ganon a completely different Ganon?

Why would he scale to the Ganon from Ocarina of Time, the Wind Waker, A Link to the Past, the Oracle Games, and Twilight Princess?
 
It's still the same Ganon though?

It's even mentioned in game how Calamity Ganon came from the Gerudos.
 
GiverOfThePeace said:
Wait so are we assuming now that Calamity Ganon is a completely different Ganon? Where is that even implied?
Click to expand...
BotW is extremely detached to everything in the timeline, and when it was said that Calamity Ganon came about and was defeated with the Sheikah technology 10,000+ years prior to the events of BotW, and that a prophecy determined that he would rise again - which he did, I always assumed that it was a new reincarnation of Ganondorf that came about and started reeking havoc on the world.

Not to mention, there's nothing on Ganon's profile that is TIer 5-A, so I also thought we kept them distinct on the wiki as well.
 
There was nothing tier 5-A on his profile since the High 5-A tiering was already there.

BoTW is a combination of timelines, Ruto exists, references to TP, and I think some downfall timeline things exist as wellin it. So it's detached and attached at the same time.
 
BotW references nearly every other Zelda game when it comes to items but you can think of that however you'd like.
 
GiverOfThePeace said:
There was nothing tier 5-A on his profile since the High 5-A tiering was already there.
BoTW is a combination of timelines, Ruto exists, references to TP, and I think some downfall timeline things exist as wellin it. So it's detached and attached at the same time.
Click to expand...
If Calamity Ganon is 5-A, then it should be noted on his profile as BotW Link is scaled to the feat and is stated to be 5-A because of his defeat of Calamity Ganon.

Also, isn't Ganon only High 5-A with the Triforce of Power? And IIRC, doesn't Zelda have the full Triforce in BotW?


Also what? No, it is not, nothing confirms that whatsoever.

Nintendo said the timeline placement of Breath of the Wild doesn't matter. It's just, "at the end" - which is ******* stupid, but I'm not going to get into that.
 
Yeah I'm not sure about the upgrade and actually leaning more towards a downgrade but Ganondorf should be 4-C with Zant's feat but that never was settled on tho because these threads were being debated on
 
I honestly don't know why BoTW is listed as only 5-A.

Yes, w/o it he's currently listed as 6-C. But that'd just make ToP Ganon superior regardless. I'd need to re-play/rewatch BoTW to give a definite answer that's not a "yes" or "no" though.

I think you missed what I meant. I didn't mean a literal combination I mean it combines all thingss from previous timelines, hence why it's "at the end" you can put it in any timeline basically, that's how it was meant to be designed.
 
Triforce pieces are seen as very powerful by themself, it'd make no sense for a Ganon w/o the triforce piece to be stronger then a Ganon with it, that'd outright defeat the purpose of Ganon being a wielder of the triforce of power.
 
Warren Valion said:
If Calamity Ganon is 5-A, then it should be noted on his profile as BotW Link is scaled to the feat and is stated to be 5-A because of his defeat of Calamity Ganon.

Also, isn't Ganon only High 5-A with the Triforce of Power? And IIRC, doesn't Zelda have the full Triforce in BotW?

Correct. Wrong, nothing but assumptions plus it's been stated to be power reserved fro royalties so nintendo ****** up

Also what? No, it is not, nothing confirms that whatsoever.

Nintendo said the timeline placement of Breath of the Wild doesn't matter. It's just, "at the end" - which is ******* stupid, but I'm not going to get into that.

I'll agree to that
Click to expand...
 
Oblivion Lightning said:
Is it shown or stated that Calamity Ganon is weaker than TOP Ganondorf?
Click to expand...
He is because he ain't even reform his body and got no pieces of his own, he just use some of demise powah but that's it, he should at least be comparable to oracle ganon
 
On the topic of scaling to BoTW, I know absolutely nothing about the game, been avoiding any and all information about it until I play it for myself, so can't help there.

About if the curse or planet rotation thing, I don't agree scaling, but won't debate it if it's decided otherwise. Stopped caring a long time ago. ovo

Other than that, given the relative vagueness of the feat, both interpretations are equally possible, so I agree with a "at least High 5-A, possibly 4-C".

That's where my contributions to this thread stops.
 
Yo, question!

Why is Young Link High 6-C? Shouldn't be High 5-A for having the Triforce of Courage?
 
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