Ganondorf Regeneration or something else

[Dust_Collector]

Yeah so a relatively minor CRT, long story short as already seen on Ganondorf's profile his Gloom Magic is made of his blood. Cool, but the thing is he can pump out a lot of gloom. like A LOT of Gloom, being able to casually conjure up several full on clones of himself made of his Gloom as well as do this. Don't think I need to tell you that these, especially the latter, would require a lil' bit more blood than what would be possible for him to have in his body and expel out of it without, y'know, instantly dying.

So basically he needs some kinda regen for this since his bodies making making blood faster than he's using it for his Gloom, unless it's better suited as another ability or an extension of his own blood manipulation. He likely gets regen regardless for going from his mummified state back to full gerudo stud, but unsure if this also covers his body making essentially endless blood for him to use for his magic.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

This feels like a weird angle to take. If he grew, nobody would argue "well he has more skin now, he clearly needs to regenerate to make more skin"- it's just part of that ability. I don't understand why this would be anything different: that particular ability just makes blood.

 

[Chariot190]

Tackling the blood point just because, If his dusty skin flakes built up to cover a country, and he still had skin, we probably would assume that he can grow his skin back quicker than he can expend it.
Size manip ain't quite the same as him being stabbed in the chest and bleeding out of a chest wound for 10,000 + years in a state he's unable to use any actual magic as he's been sealed, and said blood can take the form of a giant kaiju, paint the country, and so on. Though the OP doesn't quite mention all that so understandable confusion.

Bro definitely has some degree of healing when he can just kind of passively make that back.
Take into account how he's capable of healing himself from mummified remains back to his fleshed-out prime, and the aforementioned wound. Seems self-evident he at the very least has a degree of passive healing, maybe not the greatest in the world, but bleeding out a chest hole, unable to do anything for millennia, definitely adds up.
which is way more in line with ganon stuff anyway, kinda weird he doesn't have any regen of any kind listed despite loads of immortalities like his past self.
Ganon also doesn't inherently have a "blood-making ability", it's just his blood itself is messed up because he's angry or hateful or something, idk, dude has issues.

Which is all well and good, but really that's just me going off. As proof he actually does have healing of some kind, he gets slashed across the cheek, with the wound bleeding and smoking, from what is essentially the equivalent of slashing Supes with Kryptonite, from a blade known to negate healing to a degree, despite that, the cut heals on screen by the time he's done talking.

I agree with regen, probably just low though, all he ever does is heal a burned cut, inch-deep gouge marks, and blood, stuff normal dudes can do, just at an exponentially quicker rate. Idk what the chad heal would actually qualify as, it's something tho.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

If he has regenerative abilities (with Gloom magic, at least- his profile already has Regen, just not for that bit) then that's fine. I don't agree with Regen based on the reasoning of the OP, though.

 

[Chariot190]

He actually doesn't, regen is just for Calamity Ganon, which is a puppet made from his bloody chest wound after 10,000 years of bleeding out.
He himself doesn't have any listed, despite ample evidence on the contrary, including Calamity Ganon's very own existence.
Tbf, there's a lot of random stuff implying it being a byproduct of immortality.

Either way, the blood thing, would still be noted, if blud can bleed enough to cover the country, make pools of the stuff at a whim, and slit his wrists to do a blood Kamehameha, and he still bleeds when cut, he's evidently making that blood back, couple that with him healing actual injury, wounds, and substantial body mass (this one looks more like a byproduct of magic tho), though Phantom Ganon is stated to be made from his flesh too, not just blood so maybe? I don't see why we'd chalk it up to an unmentioned ability as opposed to his established one.
Even then, for argument's sake, assuming he could only reestablish blood and not flesh or wounds (which we see him do), it should still be noted, it'd just be limited.

 

[TheGatememer]

Idk about this tbh, isn’t this just blood manipulation?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

He actually doesn't, regen is just for Calamity Ganon, which is a puppet made from his bloody chest wound after 10,000 years of bleeding out.
He himself doesn't have any listed, despite ample evidence on the contrary, including Calamity Ganon's very own existence.
Tbf, there's a lot of random stuff implying it being a byproduct of immortality.

Either way, the blood thing, would still be noted, if blud can bleed enough to cover the country, make pools of the stuff at a whim, and slit his wrists to do a blood Kamehameha, and he still bleeds when cut, he's evidently making that blood back, couple that with him healing actual injury, wounds, and substantial body mass (this one looks more like a byproduct of magic tho), though Phantom Ganon is stated to be made from his flesh too, not just blood so maybe? I don't see why we'd chalk it up to an unmentioned ability as opposed to his established one.
Even then, for argument's sake, assuming he could only reestablish blood and not flesh or wounds (which we see him do), it should still be noted, it'd just be limited.

It isn't regeneration just because it is part of his body. Again, if the ability just generates the stuff, it's not necessarily equal to an ability to regenerate it when he is struck outside of that ability. Otherwise we'd grant regeneration for a thousand different abilities with no relation to actual natural self healing, tons of our recognized abilities rely on manipulating the body that, through such an odd scope, could be argued to be regeneration.

 

[Chariot190]

It isn't regeneration just because it is part of his body. Again, if the ability just generates the stuff,

There, right there is the issue. What ability?
You're assuming it's an ability, but such a thing was never actually stated or shown, and such an assumption doesn't even make sense while he's sealed, all the blood poured from a chest wound, while his powers and body were sealed off. The only thing that wasn't sealed, was his malice.

It isn't an ability defined at any point nor should be given context, yet, we know full well he has a healing factor. Why do mental gymnastics here?

it's not necessarily equal to an ability to regenerate it when he is struck outside of that ability.

He can literally make stuff from his flesh, and heals when struck outside that ability, blud has regen dawg

Otherwise we'd grant regeneration for a thousand different abilities with no relation to actual natural self healing, tons of our recognized abilities rely on manipulating the body that, through such an odd scope, could be argued to be regeneration.

I mean yeah sure why not? If a dude can grow countless bones and use that to attack, we should make a note he can regrow his bones, and in some cases, regen and healing might even be why they can do stuff like that, see Kars whose cellular body control and healing factor lets him split his body and sprout all kinds of shit.
How another verse treats something doesn't really affect the case here.

 

[Chariot190]

Idk about this tbh, isn’t this just blood manipulation?

Evidently, but what it can be arbitrarily classified as, doesn't change the fact that Gerudos don't have an endless supply of blood.
Any blood expended, he gains back, the only actual explanation we have for this, comes solely from his immortality and healing, which we know he has kinda good too, only took him half a minute to heal something that negates regen.

Mind you, this happened even as the majority of his power was sealed off and he was incapable of even moving, as he just bled out "naturally", whatever enables this, isn't done via magic or whatnot, Ganon's body can just naturally make up blood loss, even over the course of 10,000 years of constant bleeding.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

There, right there is the issue. What ability?

Yeah so a relatively minor CRT, long story short as already seen on Ganondorf's profile his Gloom Magic is made of his blood.

His Gloom magic.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

To be clear, since you're arguing as though I haven't been.

Which is all well and good, but really that's just me going off. As proof he actually does have healing of some kind, he gets slashed across the cheek, with the wound bleeding and smoking, from what is essentially the equivalent of slashing Supes with Kryptonite, from a blade known to negate healing to a degree, despite that, the cut heals on screen by the time he's done talking.

This is fine for regen (at least, Low regen, which is what you said you wanted to classify it as anyways). I have no issue with that. My issue is strictly with the idea that if an ability conjures blood, it MUST be regen- such an argument is evidently absurd and liable to be abused by any ability that conjures any bodily material, even if there is never once a connection shown between the two.

I've said as much already but, I feel I should clarify.

 

[Chariot190]

His Gloom magic.

You might've taken that a tad too literally, I mean, Gloom is just what they call his blood because why would the average person think the wacky sludge all over the country comes from some dude's gaping wounds? It has magical properties, at least, but that's a whole different can of worms. Doesn't effect the CRT in anyway.

This is fine for regen (at least, Low regen, which is what you said you wanted to classify it as anyways). I have no issue with that. My issue is strictly with the idea that if an ability conjures blood, it MUST be regen-

I agree, it shouldn't be assumed by default.
But I'm arguing, based on what we actually know, his established feats, and that funny untold millennia of him being sealed, the whole blood thing appears to be a property of his immortality, not just "yo he can generate blood", if that was strictly the case, the Calamity wouldn't really make sense as to have happened to begin with.

such an argument is evidently absurd and liable to be abused by any ability that conjures any bodily material, even if there is never once a connection shown between the two.

This I don't agree with. If there is a connection, then there's a connection, and pretending otherwise is just blatant dishonesty.
"Hey this dude can form bones and shoot them and then regrow more bones. He can do this because of a healing factor". That would be bone manip, by virtue of regeneration, we would make note of it, and treat it as both, if such a connection between the generation of bodily substances is a byproduct of one's healing, immorality, regen, or whatever. In what world would we act differently? I would've agreed with you if not for the last bit of that sentence, now it just comes off as pretending just because.

 

[Chariot190]

Btw, when I say seal, I mean blud had a goat arm stabbed into his heart and was locked in place for 10,000+ years, as he bled from the finger holes, unable to move, act, and basically all his abilities sealed, with Ganon himself even saying his magic was cut off as it happened (so the constant nonstop bleeding, is outright confirmed not to be due to magic), with him going "lmao k, thousands of years will pass by quick enough", as we see his chest wound start spurting blood even in that very instance and continue to do so without stopping.

Whatever the argument against, malice, was simply a byproduct of nonstop bleeding from a perforated heart, for millennia, without any magical aid.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

You might've taken that a tad too literally, I mean, Gloom is just what they call his blood because why would the average person think the wacky sludge all over the country comes from some dude's gaping wounds? It has magical properties, at least, but that's a whole different can of worms. Doesn't effect the CRT in anyway.

I don't think I have. Dude has magic blood that he can use towards his abilities. Using his blood's supernatural properties towards that end doesn't mean he can regenerate by the same measure without evidence- this has never been and should not be the default assumption without some form of backing up from the media- in this case, the cut on his face regenerating is sufficient. We don't need to, as a wiki, always make such great reaches and leaps to achieve abilities- sometimes it can be as simple as them showing it on screen.

I agree, it shouldn't be assumed by default.
But I'm arguing, based on what we actually know, his established feats, and that funny untold millennia of him being sealed, the whole blood thing appears to be a property of his immortality, not just "yo he can generate blood", if that was strictly the case, the Calamity wouldn't really make sense as to have happened to begin with.

I urge you to read my posts on what is shown. His established feat of regenerating is fine with me. I don't understand why you want to harp on about what appears by all accounts to be Blood Manipulation.

This I don't agree with. If there is a connection, then there's a connection, and pretending otherwise is just blatant dishonesty.
"Hey this dude can form bones and shoot them and then regrow more bones. He can do this because of a healing factor". That would be bone manip, by virtue of regeneration, we would make note of it, and treat it as both, if such a connection between the generation of bodily substances is a byproduct of one's healing, immorality, regen, or whatever. In what world would we act differently? I would've agreed with you if not for the last bit of that sentence, now it just comes off as pretending just because.

"If there's a connection then there's a connection"?

You are making an assumption that this is done because of a healing factor, though. In this case we're discussing, Ganon just has magic blood, which he uses for his magical effects. This isn't an uncommon trope in fantasy. If a hypothetical verse said outright "he can do this because he has regenerative powers" then... sure, no contest, I guess, but that's not strictly what's going on here- or at least not what's been shown in this thread. So agree or not, your hypothetical isn't what is the case here.

Let me conjure an example that has actually occurred. A character does have regeneration and can shapeshift by first shifting into a goo-like form. This was argued to be a High level of regeneration, because the interim form is liquid-like in format, so forming a body from that was argued to be Regeneration, doubly so because said body could be larger or smaller than the creature's original form. This, from my perspective at least, is self-evidently silly: it is another ability being dressed up and associated with another, unrelated ability. The mechanics of its shapeshifting have no relation to its level of regen by default.

The same appears true here, abstractly. The mechanics of his blood magic have no inherent relation to his regeneration.

I agree that he should have regen, Low seems fine to me. I know these sorts of things tend to devolve into desperate back-and-forths and long walls of texts repeating the same thing, which I have little interest in: I feel I've portrayed my position well enough to be understood (and if not, read again). I'll be dipping out. Toodaloo.

 

[Chariot190]

I don't think I have. Dude has magic blood that he can use towards his abilities.

That were stolen

Using his blood's supernatural properties towards that end doesn't mean he can regenerate by the same measure without evidence-

Why are you assuming it's a byproduct of his blood magic when that was stolen away?

this has never been and should not be the default assumption without some form of backing up from the media-

Which it is.

in this case, the cut on his face regenerating is sufficient. We don't need to, as a wiki, always make such great reaches and leaps to achieve abilities- sometimes it can be as simple as them showing it on screen.

You're right, but at the same time, pretending something stems from something that doesn't exist, is an issue in and of itself.

I urge you to read my posts on what is shown. His established feat of regenerating is fine with me. I don't understand why you want to harp on about what appears by all accounts to be Blood Manipulation.

Because of the funny 10,000 sealing feat. That prevents his blood loss stuff from being tied to any inherent magical property.

"If there's a connection then there's a connection"?

Yes, I'm referring to your claim, in general, not this specific case. Unless I misunderstood what you meant?

You are making an assumption that this is done because of a healing factor,

Yes, because we know he has one, and his magic was cut off.

though. In this case we're discussing, Ganon just has magic blood, which he uses for his magical effects. This isn't an uncommon trope in fantasy. If a hypothetical verse said outright "he can do this because he has regenerative powers" then... sure, no contest, I guess, but that's not strictly what's going on here- or at least not what's been shown in this thread. So agree or not, your hypothetical isn't what is the case here.

Hypothetical? We know it wasn't due to magic.

Let me conjure an example that has actually occurred. A character does have regeneration and can shapeshift by first shifting into a goo-like form. This was argued to be a High level of regeneration, because the interim form is liquid-like in format, so forming a body from that was argued to be Regeneration, doubly so because said body could be larger or smaller than the creature's original form. This, from my perspective at least, is self-evidently silly: it is another ability being dressed up and associated with another, unrelated ability. The mechanics of its shapeshifting have no relation to its level of regen by default.

False equivalence, Ganon isn't manipulating blood that he always has, the blood is no longer part of him. He's constantly, even passively, replenishing that loss mass. Hell his blood CAN shapeshift.
If the dude in your example lost like 20% of his body mass, and then regrew it back, I'd say yeah that's def regen.

The same appears true here, abstractly. The mechanics of his blood magic have no inherent relation to his regeneration.

Unless his profuse nonstop bleeding isn't a byproduct of magic.

I agree that he should have regen, Low seems fine to me. I know these sorts of things tend to devolve into desperate back-and-forths and long walls of texts repeating the same thing, which I have little interest in: I feel I've portrayed my position well enough to be understood (and if not, read again). I'll be dipping out. Toodaloo.

It literally can't be magic, it was stolen from him, I read your point lad, it just kinda feels like you aren't particularly well versed on all the context, which, tbf, you shouldn't have to be, but I mean, I did make note of this prior anyway

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

He already has Low-Godly regeneration as well as Immortality types 1, 3, 4, 6, and 8. But it seems like he can just rapidly produce near limitless amounts of blood (And remember, this game is only rated E-10+)

Oh wait, the regeneration and Immortality types 3, and 6 are simply listed for Calamity Ganon. But I think he really should have those normally given Calamity Ganon was merely an avatar with a small fraction of his powers being restricted. He went from looking mummified/skeletal like to growing all those, muscle tissue and blood back. Which would be Low-Mid regeneration at least. He can also seemingly evaporate and regenerate himself from the gloom/blood; which would be Low-High regeneration. He can also materialize weapons and clones of himself out of blood.

 

[Chariot190]

He already has Low-Godly regeneration as well as Immortality types 1, 3, 4, 6, and 8. But it seems like he can just rapidly produce near limitless amounts of blood (And remember, this game is only rated E-10+)

The game being 10+, doesnt change anything. He still bleeds, he still gets wounded, and it's pretty graphic with it all things considered.

Oh wait, the regeneration and Immortality types 3, and 6 are simply listed for Calamity Ganon. But I think he really should have those normally given Calamity Ganon was merely an avatar with a small fraction of his powers being restricted.

It can do all that because it's an avatar and simply made from his blood. Idk if we should scale that to him, we probably can to the Phantoms tho.

He went from looking mummified/skeletal like to growing all those, muscle tissue and blood back. Which would be Low-Mid regeneration at least. He can also seemingly evaporate and regenerate himself from the gloom/blood; which would be Low-High regeneration. He can also materialize weapons and clones of himself out of blood.

Can he? That might be a real good one, I don't remember that tho?

 

[Nierre]

Bambu FRA

 

[Chariot190]

Bambu FRA

"it's gloom magic"

Whatever it is, it ain't magic nor is it from any active ability, he just kind of bled out without end from his gaping wound.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The game being 10+, doesnt change anything. He still bleeds, he still gets wounded, and it's pretty graphic with it all things considered.

I know, that's not relevant. I was just noting that because of how surprisingly bloody/graphic and still only that rating.

Can he? That might be a real good one, I don't remember that tho?

It's his method of teleportation during the final boss battle IIRC.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Man, I really didn't want to return but harping on the word "magic", as if the semantics ever won the day in any disagreement, is annoying me.

It IS magic. Can you do it? Can any natural being in the real world do it? No? You can't form near limitless quantities of blood for your other supernatural abilities? Cool, then it's magic. It is magical in nature enabled because this takes place in a magical world.

I really don't want to text wall back and forth with you man, especially since we've already agreed- he does have at least Low regeneration, you just argue it's from another thing. I don't really care about that, and I think you're wrong, but I'd like to think you get the gist of my stance and can do more than dismiss it for what you see as a wording issue.

As for DDM wanting to push Low-Godly, I also don't agree with that, for the same reasons as you. The evaporation thing could be legit but it sorta sounds like teleportation via reforming at the position, but I'd need to see context because it's been a long damn time since I played Zelda.

 

[Chariot190]

Man, I really didn't want to return but harping on the word "magic", as if the semantics ever won the day in any disagreement, is annoying me.

It IS magic. Can you do it? Can any natural being in the real world do it? No? You can't form near limitless quantities of blood for your other supernatural abilities? Cool, then it's magic.

He had no access to magic, if he as no access to magic, then your argument of it being magic, is wrong, and as such, so are you. It isn't even semantics
"Ganon just has magic blood, which he uses for his magical effects."
"The mechanics of his blood magic have no inherent relation to his regeneration."
"His Gloom magic."
And so on.

You, explicitly, argued it was from the magical properties, that enabled this. I'm arguing, no, that's actually impossible given the context, it was sealed off, as it stands, you have no argument.

No, "It's supernatural so it's magic", is one of, if not the, worst argument I have ever heard. We are talking about a character who LITERALLY has magic, in a verse that has actual magic. If his feat stems not from magic, but something else, do tell me what it comes from? It comes from somewhere after all, especially if he's not even actively using said blood ability.

Asking me if I can do it, and if I can't it's magic is astonishing, I can't punch down a building either, does that mean a 8-B's punch is magic? I also can't heal a cut in half a second, guess regen is magic too. Guess everything is magic.
Being unrealistic or superhuman, is not the same as magic, if you're just attempting to say "it's unrealistic", then actually say so, given we're dealing with actual magic stuff and a magical verse by your own admission, such careless wording will be scrutinized, but even then that isn't an argument.

I really don't want to text wall back and forth with you man, especially since we've already agreed- he does have at least Low regeneration, you just argue it's from another thing.

Yeah nah, sorry man, but if that's your argument, that's probably exactly what's going to happen. We know it isn't magic, we know he has passive immortal/regenerative qualities. If bro had his heart bound by being stabbed in the chest, and from that wound, he just kept bleeding over millennia, and we know he can't heal via magic because duh, and we know he isn't actually using his blood shit and this is just natural seeping, but we do know he has a healing factor due to funny demon status, and we know innately his species doesn't have ten fucktillion gallons of blood.

Why are we going to ignore a perfectly good feat again? A feat is a feat, we index stuff, even if it's ultimately not important given healing the aforementioned perforated chest wound is already technically above blood replenishment by our standards, that doesn't mean let's ignore shit.

I don't really care about that, and I think you're wrong, but I'd like to think you get the gist of my stance and can do more than dismiss it for what you see as a wording issue.

You've just proven to me why I should argue it, your argument essentially boils down to "it's supernatural", yeah that much is obvious. And? Whether or not it's supernatural means objectively nothing, what matters is why it's happening, I'm arguing it's a byproduct of his immortality as it can't be his magic.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Some day this site will cause me to lose my mind. The semantics argument has been doubled down on. Gods save us.

Let me help you to understand the words I'm saying.

"Magic", in this instance, is a word used to generalize any mechanical effects of living under supernatural conditions in a supernatural world. I say "magic" because all of that is wordy. I explained that, but you've just watched onto arguing about the specific word chosen.

I am perfectly aware that Ganondorf's magic (that is, the casting of spells and such) has been sealed. I am also perfectly aware that Ganondorf is a magical creature (that is, supernatural in nature), and as such has access to magical abilities (that is, supernatural in nature) outside of his actual spellcasting.

Now that this has been explained, I am hopeful you can comprehend, if not agree.

I have argued it being magical in nature because it is so. It is a contrivance of the word that you're hung up on for no reason!

You may wall of text if you want. I don't care, as I'd mentioned. You're free to argue with a dictionary at your local library if it pleases you, or one of the many available online.

I agree with Low regeneration for healing from the cut inflicted in the cutscenes linked. I disagree with the idea that using your blood for abilities gives regeneration. Thank you all.

 

[Chariot190]

Some day this site will cause me to lose my mind. The semantics argument has been doubled down on. Gods save us.

Let me help you to understand the words I'm saying.

"Being unrealistic or superhuman, is not the same as magic, if you're just attempting to say "it's unrealistic", then actually say so, given we're dealing with actual magic stuff and a magical verse by your own admission, such careless wording will be scrutinized, but even then that isn't an argument."

I got it, I'm just saying it's a not a rebuttal either way.

"Magic", in this instance, is a word used to generalize any mechanical effects of living under supernatural conditions in a supernatural world. I say "magic" because all of that is wordy. I explained that, but you've just watched onto arguing about the specific word chosen.

Don't blame me for your poor word choice dawg, notwithstanding your initial argument was talking of literal magic but shrug, yeah sure, we can ignore that.

I am perfectly aware that Ganondorf's magic (that is, the casting of spells and such) has been sealed. I am also perfectly aware that Ganondorf is a magical creature (that is, supernatural in nature), and as such has access to magical abilities (that is, supernatural in nature) outside of his actual spellcasting.

Like his regeneration

Now that this has been explained, I am hopeful you can comprehend, if not agree.

I have argued it being magical in nature because it is so. It is a contrivance of the word that you're hung up on for no reason!

It is supernatural, magic, in context, is something else entirely. Ganon, in context, has no real access to his abilities, magic, or any deliberate supernatural method until the seal begins to weaken.
All he has, is, at the time, his innate, passive, physical properties, due to this, we can rule out numerous things. This, ultimately, leads us to a combination of displayed Type 2 immortality, and a healing factor, both things we know he has anyway.

You may wall of text if you want. I don't care, as I'd mentioned. You're free to argue with a dictionary at your local library if it pleases you, or one of the many available online.

If you think basic discussion, and actual responding to what is said, is "wall of text", or somehow bad, which you evidently seem to take issue with.
I'm not sure why you're even on a forum effectively dedicated to that. If anything you should actually be doing so too, you haven't actually given an argument beyond stuff we know isn't the case in the event I am alluding too.

I agree with Low regeneration for healing from the cut inflicted in the cutscenes linked.

Not a proper rebuttal, your argument, once again, borders on ignorance, weter willful or otherwise, and fails to tackle even the most basic of arguments here.

Your argument is, from what I can glean, "It's supernatural so I disagree", I am arguing "It's a byproduct of his supernatural immortality", ie, healing. Whether or not it is supernatural, does not change anything I have said.

I disagree with the idea that using your blood for abilities gives regeneration. Thank you all.

You can disagree but like, you haven't actually given legitimate reasons that aren't contextually proven false?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I'm deigning to reply because this response is ever so slightly toned back in weird aggression from all previous posts, even if it is insisting on the same nonsensical semantics shit in the first part.

No. The ability to conjure blood for his, as you put it originally, "Kamehameha", isn't regeneration. It simply isn't in any way tied to healing, made of blood or otherwise. It is the flavor of the ability.

Him being stabbed through the heart and living? I'd give you Immortality of a sort any day. His cut rapidly healing? Definitely regeneration, no questions asked. The generation of bodily content is not equatable to the regeneration of bodily damage, however- this and only this are the points at stake, something I feel I should remind you of before you post twelve more walls of text about something else.

You have provided no evidence to suggest anything aside. Instead you have spent several posts wasting my time by not realizing what we're talking about. "It's supernatural so I disagree"? This whole discussion arose from you not understanding the parameters of the word "magical" with context clues. The core argument is way up in the post by now- and it amounts to what I've posted above, handily laid out for you. Generation is not regeneration, even in large volumes, even when it requires a source to generate from.

In this thread you have repeatedly attempted to portray me as stupid and unknowing for no reason other than your own misunderstanding over a point that is irrelevant to the point of the thread- even though I've already agreed to Low regeneration. I am hoping that most threads you visit, even as just a CGM, are not like this. I would hope that if you were ever confused, instead you'd ask.

Assuming all can now be rendered calmer than prior, I'm happy to hear from DDM regarding his proposals, whenever he has time to post evidence in relation to them.

 

[Tago238]

This feels like a weird angle to take. If he grew, nobody would argue "well he has more skin now, he clearly needs to regenerate to make more skin"- it's just part of that ability. I don't understand why this would be anything different: that particular ability just makes blood.

If it wasn’t just a singular transformation and was instead a general body transformation power I don’t think this would be impossible to argue (I just think it wouldn’t apply to most shapeshifting characters if we see them take damage).

 

[Mr. Bambu]

It is, though. Regeneration is defined as the ability to heal from damage received- this misjudges that to mean "making more bits of the body", but it isn't. That's simply not the definition of the ability.

 

[Tago238]

It is, though. Regeneration is defined as the ability to heal from damage received- this misjudges that to mean "making more bits of the body", but it isn't. That's simply not the definition of the ability.

I mean if a character is shown to be capable of creating extra arms on themselves we’d say someone cutting an arm off them isn’t a very big issue.

Here we’d say someone causing cuts that may make Ganondorf bleed out wouldn’t be a very big issue cause he clearly shows the ability to conjure more blood within himself.

I think these two points are closer than the second is to “if a character can turn into a deer they can conjure extra flesh over a wound” for pretty obvious reasons. Largely we aren’t sure if they can organise that flesh over the wound in a complex way like that, whereas it’s pretty clear that arm man can summon an arm and ganondorf can create more blood in his body. I don’t think this thread would justify ganondorf being able to overcome any injuries less specific.

 

[Tago238]

If your issue is purely semantic and not practical that’s fine, but I think it would be easier to just classify it as regeneration so people who read the profile know that’s a thing he could do.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

First bit about arms: we would, actually, unless they showed an ability to regrow said arms. Like if someone goes Asura and sprouts several sets of arms, that's not an automatic assumption that they can grow those back instantly. They need to show they can. Funnily enough, I was even going to use this as an example earlier.

If you want semantic arguments you're a mite late.

 

[Tago238]

Instead of deleting his comment and replacing it, he just posted it again without deleting the previous to prove his point. Performance argument.


Anyway, I’m more thinking of somebody like Mahito, (who technically has regen anyway but shush) who has a really versatile body transformation ability that he can use to conjure new arms whenever he likes. Obviously somebody if someone gets an arm cut off and then goes into their 8 arm form they now would instead have 7 arms. The example I gave and Ganondorf’s ability to create blood are more flexible than that though (although still fairly inflexible, it only functions for a specific thing).

 

[Tago238]

Oh, it’s gone now. Dunno if it was deleted or my phone just died.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Instead of deleting his comment and replacing it, he just posted it again without deleting the previous to prove his point. Performance argument.


Anyway, I’m more thinking of somebody like Mahito, (who technically has regen anyway but shush) who has a really versatile body transformation ability that he can use to conjure new arms whenever he likes. Obviously somebody if someone gets an arm cut off and then goes into their 8 arm form they now would instead have 7 arms. The example I gave and Ganondorf’s ability to create blood are more flexible than that though (although still fairly inflexible, it only functions for a specific thing).

I double posted, chief. They were posted at the same time. I was on my phone. I'm really not in the mood for you, at the moment, Tago, so if you could just tone it back a bit, that'd be super .

To address your proposed way of doing things that has never been how we do things: if characters HAVE regen anyways, they aren't an example of your position. You propose that characters who can grow additional appendages from their baseline (in this case, a humanoid with two arms, legs, ears, eyes, etc- basically normal physiological components for a human), are considered to have regeneration, in spite of the fact that they are healing from no wounds.

I'm off to bed soon, and it's a very niche set of characters, but here are some characters that grow new limbs over their originals that we don't (and never have) award regeneration for. Because it isn't regeneration. They can't heal from wounds on these levels.

• William Birkin grows a second head and does not have Mid regeneration. I assume there's probably others, given Resident Evil is the body horror verse, but I've not played most of 'em.
• Ludwig the Holy Blade has no form of regeneration despite growing many limbs and several apparent quasi-heads since his status as a human.
• Stitch can grow and retract an additional pair of arms at-will.
• Machamp is just one of many Pokemon that grow new arms as they grow. Admittedly this one's a bit odd, since "evolution", but given the pace of it I think it fits.
• This green lady. About as explicitly on-the-nose for your example as we can get, even.
• Slenderman in essentially any form can grow his tentacle-arm-things at will. No regen.

I'm going to try to sleep, before you make another passive aggressive jab about something mundane occurring around you (like not receiving a reply, I'm aghast just thinking about it). I wouldn't want you to subject yourself to that.

 

[Tago238]

I was just making a little joke about something that happened, no need to see it as a super directed personal attack. I assure you my intention was not to mock or deride you for something I thought was vaguely funny in the context of the thread happening (I was, like, only 70% it wasn’t intentional).

Mahito has regeneration for a different-ish reason, I wasn’t bringing up a pointless example, although after giving it a bit more thought I don’t think it really matters.

Anyway, I think it comes down to the fact that if you chopped of Stitch’s arms he can still fight because he has an extra set of arms to do so with. If you made Ganondorf bleed out 2 litres of blood he can just conjure 2 litres of blood within himself to help with that. It’s not necessarily fundamentally coming from some healing factor like Wolverine’s but it’s still a niche way he can handle certain attacks and I’d say even if you don’t want to call it regen it wouldn’t be the biggest problem in the world to have it be clear he could do that somewhere on the profile.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

We're not friends. There is no playful mockery between us. Keep it that way.

Stitch’s arms he can still fight because he has an extra set of arms to do so with

Agreed, this is because he possesses Additional Limbs, which is not an ability I'm arguing against.

If you made Ganondorf bleed out 2 litres of blood he can just conjure 2 litres of blood within himself to help with that

Nothing in this thread shows he can actually do that (beyond the already accepted regeneration, at least). And you're right on the latter bits of this, creating blood isn't strictly regen anyways (at least, not specifically something our regen page mentions- I suppose the description of Low might cover it?). But like. Show me Ganondorf healing a wound and then just generating liters of blood inside himself ig. That seems a very difficult and horrendously specific thing to prove but I'm willing to wait to see it.

 

[Tago238]

1)Sorry for violating your janny boundaries, best acquaintance. Will not happen again.

2)Fun.

3)Why are we not allowed to extrapolate? He clearly does seem to be flinging more blood from inside him than he should, I don’t think there’d be the same emphasis on it being his blood if it wasn’t from inside him and especially if it wasn’t compatible.

 

[Chariot190]

I'm deigning to reply because this response is ever so slightly toned back in weird aggression from all previous posts, even if it is insisting on the same nonsensical semantics shit in the first part.

Looking way too far into it lad, honestly feel the same way about you, almost every single time you talk your posts are filled with thinly veiled attempts at sarcasm or unwarranted comments, but I assume that's just how you talk instead of assuming an underlying agenda or active aggression, why you too can't do the same, is beyond me, and again, "semantics", isn't an argument in this case, semantics kind of matter.

No. The ability to conjure blood for his, as you put it originally, "Kamehameha", isn't regeneration.

And just like that, you've proven you've lost track of what's been argued. I have spent ample time, on a single scene tying it to such, and we haven't even moved on to any other potential scenes or lore yet either.

It simply isn't in any way tied to healing, made of blood or otherwise. It is the flavor of the ability.

And I'm arguing it is in this context? Hence the argument to begin with. You saying "no", isn't a proper rebuttal.
The flavor of the ability? What's the flavor? In fact, what ability? I'm talking about a scene where his magic, yes, magic, is invalidated. Bro ain't even using his ability, hell it's kinda way each Calamity is millennia apart.

Him being stabbed through the heart and living? I'd give you Immortality of a sort any day. His cut rapidly healing? Definitely regeneration, no questions asked. The generation of bodily content is not equatable to the regeneration of bodily damage, however- this and only this are the points at stake,

And yet, I am arguing it is. We have an instance in canon, where, the mechanics behind such a feat, can only be attested to as an innate physiological trait, hell given he draws attention to how sealing him is temporary because he can't naturally die, has that going for it, but regardless, due to this situation, we know that his constant bleeding, and "generation" of blood, isn't actually due to his "Blood Manip" or "Gloom Magic".
It isn't magic, it isn't """"'magic"""'' blood, he has none of that available, yet can bleed without end, give an actual explanation based on the context of the verse and established traits.

We know he has regen, we know he has immortality, again, as it stands, your argument falls flat, the only real point you had against, is objectively not applicable in this context.

something I feel I should remind you of before you post twelve more walls of text about something else.

And yet, despite this, you've given no real argument or tackling of any point. If you can't do that, or convince me otherwise, sorry, but I will argue it as many times as need be. That's to be expected, unless you just wanna go "agree to disagree" or whatever, but response begets response.

You have provided no evidence to suggest anything aside.

"It can't be this, this, or this. We know he couldn't do this, this, or this. But we know he has this, this, and this. We also know he wasn't actively doing his, this, or this, as such, we can reasonably conclude, this"
"no"

Instead you have spent several posts wasting my time by not realizing what we're talking about.

I'm tempted to say the same thing.

Generation is not regeneration, even in large volumes, even when it requires a source to generate from.

And this is just false, it's entirely case by case. And the vast majority of time, actually can double as a means of regeneration.

And yeah? That's part of the point, how is blud generating blood, what source? Shit would be gone.

In this thread you have repeatedly attempted to portray me as stupid and unknowing

I mean I think your points can be downright detrimental to the wiki as a whole in some cases. But I never said, or implied, anything about you yourself.

Stop reading into basic back and forth and looking for attacks against you on a vs battle board, shit ain't that deep.

"It's supernatural so I disagree"? This whole discussion arose from you not understanding the parameters of the word "magical" with context clues. The core argument is way up in the post by now- and it amounts to what I've posted above, handily laid out for you.

for no reason other than your own misunderstanding over a point that is irrelevant to the point of the thread-

Don't blame me for your wording.
Additionally.

This whole magic stuff started with me asking, what ability is the cause of why he can do so without limit,

It isn't regeneration just because it is part of his body. Again, if the ability just generates the stuff,

"There, right there is the issue. What ability?
You're assuming it's an ability, but such a thing was never actually stated or shown, and such an assumption doesn't even make sense while he's sealed, all the blood poured from a chest wound, while his powers and body were sealed off. The only thing that wasn't sealed, was his malice."
You said it's just the ability, I said, what ability?
You replied with
"His Gloom magic.",
while quoting the OP no less, after a previous mention of making mention of Gloom Magic early in the thread as defined and listed on the profile, meaning you 100% know what Gloom Magic entails. This establishes that, hey, we're talking about his actual magic as what OP is referring to, and you used this actual, literal, accepted magic, as the reason for why he can bleed endlessly. So right off the bat, there's no semantics or misunderstanding on my end. This was Post #10.

I replied with ya might've taken that a tad too literally, your next reply

"I don't think I have. Dude has magic blood that he can use towards his abilities. Using his blood's supernatural properties towards that end doesn't mean he can regenerate by the same measure without evidence- this has never been and should not be the default assumption without some form of backing up from the media- in this case, the cut on his face regenerating is sufficient. We don't need to, as a wiki, always make such great reaches and leaps to achieve abilities- sometimes it can be as simple as them showing it on screen."

That is you outright doubling down saying no, you meant what you said and you are taking it as literally as need be, the thing in question being gloom magic.
You then immediately say he has magical blood, immediately after acknowledging we're talking about literal magic, in response to you using his magic as a means to explain why he can do so endlessly, using Gloom Magic as established on the profile as the reason. You do say "supernatural" afterward, but given the context of this conversation up to this point, and your own arguments you doubled down upon in response to my own, that doesn't mean much, we're still very explicitly talking about Gloom Magic at this point, especially when his blood's "supernatural properties", are, in fact, what is defined as gloom.

You do make note of needing evidence as we can't assume that by default, which I agree with, which is why I move on to establishing how, in one such critical event, he had no magic or even access to freeform blood manip, yet even then in said context, blood loss was not an issue, because of this, we can conclude that generation of such body fluid, isn't inherently because of any magic or blood manipulation. This was reply #14.

And then after, your next reply was
"Man, I really didn't want to return but harping on the word "magic", as if the semantics ever won the day in any disagreement, is annoying me.". This was reply #21.

As in, yeah, no real cut there. And now, here we are, a few posts later.
Unfortunately, no, we were talking about literal gloom magic. There were no semantics or misunderstanding, the argument split off from talking about his literal glom magic as your rebuttal. Either you backpedaled, forgot your own replies, or worded things very poorly after extremely misleading replies by using OP and my own responses, both of which were talking about his actual established abilities, either way, nah this is entirely on you, shit ain't my fault.
Mind you, these were in succession, it isn't like I quoted posts far apart either, at no point did you make it evident you changed your stance.

even though I've already agreed to Low regeneration. I am hoping that most threads you visit, even as just a CGM, are not like this. I would hope that if you were ever confused, instead you'd ask.

I care about indexing what needs to be indexed. This ties into that, and is, for the most part, tied to the actual proposal, his blood meme is in part due to some innate healing factor, not strictly funny blood "generation" or whatever arbitrary term you want to call it. Thinly veiled and poor taste comment btw.


So, I ask again, given we know he can "generate blood", passively, without access to his magic or even proper access to that blood manip, how, exactly, does Ganondorf bleed from a perforated heart for over 10000 years? If not due to Gloom Magic, any special hax or ability, or even that blood manip itself as none of those become available to him until long, long, afterward.
We know he's "unkillable", we know he can regenerate, those are innate qualities of his we know stayed true, the former of which is even why he didn't care about being sealed.
Based on simple, blatant, reasoning, we can conclude "hey maybe his heart leaking icky blood for millennia, might just be due to his innate funny physiology".

Like maybe I haven't been clear, but I'm basically going "based on the lore, without using his blood powers and abilities because he couldn't really, he was stabbed and he naturally bled nonstop for like 1000 years or whatever straight".
Every argument you've presented has absolutely nothing to do with what I've said.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Looking way too far into it lad, honestly feel the same way about you

I don't think I am. Your tone has pivoted to one of casual dismissal common to this place since your third post or so- when there was no reason to resort to that. You have treated your own misunderstandings- easily mended, if asked about- as my "ignorance". You may call it "looking too far into it" just as easily as I could say the same to you, man. That doesn't change the words that are there. The thin veils of aggression.

why you too can't do the same, is beyond me, and again, "semantics", isn't an argument in this case, semantics kind of matter.

I've been here since 2016 and the Internet for longer, I know when someone is trying to be snide or dismissive or rude. You are the one that argued semantics, Chariot. I'm telling you, in this moment, that my point this entire time is that he isn't healing, and thus this is not regeneration. You interpreted my usage of the word "magic" to mean "spellcasting", when I thought the phrase "magic blood" would tip it off- thought we were past this.

And I'm arguing it is in this context? Hence the argument to begin with. You saying "no", isn't a proper rebuttal.

My role on this wiki is not the bickering and debating. I'm the judge, same as any other evaluating staff. Your job would be to convince me. But you can't, because the first sentence on the Regeneration page proves you are fundamentally wrong.

And this is just false, it's entirely case by case.

No it isn't.

"Regeneration, often referred to as a healing factor, is the ability to passively heal oneself from wounds at an accelerated rate, with many characters proving capable of regenerating from wounds that would be lethal to normal humans."

What this means is that something has to be healed from. Spewing out supernatural quantities of blood isn't healing back from the cut that would cause it. It's Blood Manipulation.

That's part of the point, how is blud generating blood, what source?

Are you under the impression I think it's not Ganondorf doing it?

Ganondorf is a magical creature. He operates by supernatural means. He can do things a normal human cannot. He is generating the blood. This is called Blood Manipulation. It is evidently not tied to his ability we classify as Magic, even though it is magical because it is supernatural because it is something a normal human cannot do. He can use it, even if his magic is disabled. None of these are in contest, and thus the ability exists in a framework in which it makes sense.

I mean I think your points can be downright detrimental to the wiki as a whole in some cases. But I never said, or implied, anything about you yourself.

Not a proper rebuttal, your argument, once again, borders on ignorance, weter willful or otherwise, and fails to tackle even the most basic of arguments here.

No, "It's supernatural so it's magic", is one of, if not the, worst argument I have ever heard.

Ignoring the fact that everyone has figured out by now what the whole stuff means by now, both of these are directly towards me with the first one implying drastic shit in the name of arguing. Now, immediately I feel the statement "those are to your argument": no, the first one can't be construed that way and the latter reeks of the usual insulting fare peddled in these types of discussions online. The "worst argument I've ever heard" is an insult. As a human, when I (or anyone else) is subjected to some form of verbal (text-based, perhaps?) abuse, I respond crankily. The tone was set by your third message and it has spiraled since then. I am hoping to abate this, to (hah) stem the bleeding.

Debating tone is not a particularly convincing way to dismiss an argument, so let me be clear: your argument fundamentally does not fit within the current framework of the wiki. It would only be possible if we altered how the wiki works on the most baseline, core level. My concern for how you carry yourself is twofold: firstly, as a user of this site you are bound by the same rules as others. Nothing that's been said here is a rule violation, we suffer substantially worse all the time, but this leads me to the second matter of you being a Calc Group Member and thus staff and thus beholden to some higher level of expectation. You may say the same of me, I suppose, depending on the level of self-reflection you're prone to, which you're free to do but it didn't really get worse until you started the avalanche we have here.

Thinly veiled and poor taste comment btw.

No, although I'd be lying if I said there weren't some that are (following your own). I mean it. Chariot, I say this of calm emotions: I want to think this thread is not the standard. Because that's an important thing to recognize.

With that aside, because the professional aspect of behavior has unfortunately melded uncontrollably with the discussion of the thread.

Like maybe I haven't been clear, but I'm basically going "based on the lore, without using his blood powers and abilities because he couldn't really, he was stabbed and he naturally bled nonstop for like 1000 years or whatever straight".
Every argument you've presented has absolutely nothing to do with what I've said.

I'm sorry that you feel that way, so as this is likely to be my last post (again, failing some more evidence being brought in), I will address this bit directly.

It is self-evident that not all of his powers are negated, as no human would survive having their heart pierced and all that, nor would they survive 1000 years in any scenario. Given that Ganondorf's major abilities here are the generation of blood, and that's more or less what's going on for him here, I had indeed thought it self-explanatory that this was addressed by the position of "creating blood, on its own, isn't regeneration, especially if the wound is still there, because nothing is being healed from".

He is prevented from actively using them, yes. In this situation, it seems that he does just possess an unlimited supply of blood because his manipulation of it is at least partially passive. He makes a lot of it. If this is your point, I don't find it to be strong enough to justify being used as evidence for regeneration.

Now, it is important that everyone read this bit. I've agreed with Low regeneration already on the basis of the cut, which is all regeneration of all the blood in your body could possibly be construed to be even if I thought this fit the bill: this simply isn't a facet of the Regeneration page, so the best it can be covered by is Low.

However: Ganondorf was stabbed in the chest for all this time, and yet in the same cutscene, he recovers from this cut. You, Chariot, say that he was stabbed through the heart explicitly: I'm willing to believe that outright (although if you wanted to provide somewhere this was stated, it sure wouldn't hurt), and so healing from this would be at the very lowest possible interpretation Mid-Low, but more likely Low-Mid (depending on how deep the blade actually went- I think the latter is more likely).

Is this not the reality of the situation? If I'm missing something here, by all means enlighten me.

 

[Tago238]

Low mid regeneration with some context that he also can’t be killed from bleeding out sounds fine.