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Zaraki VS Zeref

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zeinx said:
Zeref gives the advantage. If you look at Zeref's profile, you can see that he can do more than 8 things to win.
Click to expand...
I will answer them all in one message

First of all, please do not use things that are not accepted on the wiki. If you are going to do this, consider this topic in a separate CRT. No one here argues that this is passive, I will not make a very healthy comment since I do not know Fairy Tail, but looking at the place you showed, as soon as the wolves attacking Zeref come within a certain distance, this will happen. I see that you are impressed, the capacity of soul crush is definitely higher than that and please offer something about the layering of zeref's soul resistance (you constantly talk nonsense in your explanations) and we have already discussed the things with time and if you are not too blind to read Deceived's article, this scenario is also You already understand what will happen. Since you constantly use expressions like "already" while talking about Zeref's characteristics in your sentences, this makes the situation worse for you, and I think you have some comprehension problems. In this match, killing is not important, it is important to gain superiority with some features, and this Zaraki is the person who is superior so far
 
Spectra_Schiffer said:
The things you mentioned are not passive.

This is text and scan.. Hax = passive You said hax is not under control and what language is the scan in? Anyway, that doesn't matter. You should scan me the manga even though it only supports 1% of what you say.

lol

1. If you claim Zeref has infinite power output with his Wank scales, I can not only disprove that but also prove that SS arc Zaraki has infinite power output with your logic lol 2. Additionally, Zeref's only passive is that time does not rewind when he kills, but no one has yet been able to accurately verify this through scans.

Are you proud of a character whose r > f result is low 1-c by old wiki standards and who was beaten by his student on the plane he passed and still lives on?

Characters like Zaraki already have resistance to moral pressure. The guy actually uses soul oppression as an argument for characters in the Bleach series

Are you claiming that Zeref is a soulless being?? A reminder that after you bleed this, you'll need to offer Energy Efficiency, Fear Manipulation, and resistance to Paralysis Index. .

NOPE.
Click to expand...
1. All of these abilities are thought based and thus can and will still work due to Zeref's resistances preventing him from instantly dying

2. Zeref's death manip is passive in the sense that it's uncontrollable if he cares even the tiniest bit about life. The instant he does he automatically AOE's his entire surroundings with death manip. He can still do this even with full control

3. idk about Spectra but I'm not wanking Zeref to have infinite power. Raw stats has never been and never will be relevant in a matchup where both characters kill each other by existing near each other via hax

4. Zeref isn't soulless, but he has mid godly
 
LordGinSama said:
Aizen pinning down Grimmjow, Yama effecting Nanao, etc.

That's not the argument. The argument is that Kenny can essentially continue to indefinitely turn Zeref into atoms just by him existing. It's a 5-A person going against a 3-C force that's passively flaring.
Click to expand...
Neither Grimmjow nor Nanao died in this scenario because they both have passive resistance to these abilities due to possessing the same physiology. Although Zeref isn't a Soul from the Bleach universe, his own resistances to soul hax should be sufficient to not instantly evaporate despite the immense AP advantage. With this he can use his own hax to kill Kenny just as easily, and unlike Zeref, Kenny can't come back from it

At worst this is Incon since neither of them can put each other down for good. And assuming Kenny just atomizes Zeref over and over, Zeref has Infinite Stamina while Kenny doesn't, so if you want to add technicalities then Zeref outlasts long enough to use his own hax like Time Stop and screws Kenny over

Like there's literally no real wincon for Kenny here since he can't put down Zeref for good
 
I also do want to add one thing

Ichigo, a character well known for having terrible Reiatsu control and thus flares his aura constantly, didn't atomize anyone in his vicinity despite the fact that he's a 3C going up against 5Cs (Bambies)

If you want to argue that said 5Cs have better layered soul resistance compared to Zeref, Nanao was on the same island as Ichigo and every other major enemy, not to mention she fought Lillie Barro, and despite being 7B and featless, she was completely uneffected by their auras entirely. Not to mention, there were a few members of Squad 11 (not including Ikkaku and Yumichika, there were a few random ass dudes there iirc) who are weaker than the likes of Substitute Shinigami Arc Orihime, who is 9A and only has 1 layer of soul resistance, and they were equally unaffected by the Sternritters and Ichigo despite being in their general vicinity
 
Mickey1940 said:
1. All of these abilities are thought based and thus can and will still work due to Zeref's resistances preventing him from instantly dying
Click to expand...
Hax, which works automatically without being passive, will be activated later than passive hax, and since Zaraki does not need to kill, these features do not matter.
Mickey1940 said:
2. Zeref's death manip is passive in the sense that it's uncontrollable if he cares even the tiniest bit about life. The instant he does he automatically AOE's his entire surroundings with death manip. He can still do this even with full control
Click to expand...
I don't know how many times I've said this, but Death MP is not a passive hax either, and Zeref will be literally crushed by Zaraki's passive haxes before it can be used.
Mickey1940 said:
3. idk about Spectra but I'm not wanking Zeref to have infinite power. Raw stats has never been and never will be relevant in a matchup where both characters kill each other by existing near each other via hax
Click to expand...
You can't use the infinite power output argument anyway, arguments for that were disproved in the CRT a long time ago.
 
Mickey1940 said:
Neither Grimmjow nor Nanao died in this scenario because they both have passive resistance to these abilities due to possessing the same physiology. Although Zeref isn't a Soul from the Bleach universe, his own resistances to soul hax should be sufficient to not instantly evaporate despite the immense AP advantage. With this he can use his own hax to kill Kenny just as easily, and unlike Zeref, Kenny can't come back from it

At worst this is Incon since neither of them can put each other down for good. And assuming Kenny just atomizes Zeref over and over, Zeref has Infinite Stamina while Kenny doesn't, so if you want to add technicalities then Zeref outlasts long enough to use his own hax like Time Stop and screws Kenny over

Like there's literally no real wincon for Kenny here since he can't put down Zeref for good
Click to expand...
Since Kenny is superior in terms of AP and will constantly crush his opponent with his passive hax, the situation will result in Kenny's victory.
 
Mickey1940 said:
I also do want to add one thing

Ichigo, a character well known for having terrible Reiatsu control and thus flares his aura constantly, didn't atomize anyone in his vicinity despite the fact that he's a 3C going up against 5Cs (Bambies)

If you want to argue that said 5Cs have better layered soul resistance compared to Zeref, Nanao was on the same island as Ichigo and every other major enemy, not to mention she fought Lillie Barro, and despite being 7B and featless, she was completely uneffected by their auras entirely. Not to mention, there were a few members of Squad 11 (not including Ikkaku and Yumichika, there were a few random ass dudes there iirc) who are weaker than the likes of Substitute Shinigami Arc Orihime, who is 9A and only has 1 layer of soul resistance, and they were equally unaffected by the Sternritters and Ichigo despite being in their general vicinity
Click to expand...
Pf You must really be ignorant about the bleach universe to make this comment. First of all, there is soul pressure resistance in the Bleach universe (almost everyone). Secondly, Bleach characters can restrict their own auras at will. If I remember correctly, in Safyw page 2, Shinsui lowered his soul level to the level that matched the soul power of a rock. The same applies to Grimmjow and other arrancars who came to the world for the first time. Even if they cannot completely turn off their reiatsu, they have the ability to limit it.
 
Spectra_Schiffer said:
The things you mentioned are not passive.

This is text and scan.. Hax = passive You said hax is not under control and what language is the scan in? Anyway, that doesn't matter. You should scan me the manga even though it only supports 1% of what you say.

lol

1. If you claim Zeref has infinite power output with his Wank scales, I can not only disprove that but also prove that SS arc Zaraki has infinite power output with your logic lol 2. Additionally, Zeref's only passive is that time does not rewind when he kills, but no one has yet been able to accurately verify this through scans.

Are you proud of a character whose r > f result is low 1-c by old wiki standards and who was beaten by his student on the plane he passed and still lives on?

Characters like Zaraki already have resistance to moral pressure. The guy actually uses soul oppression as an argument for characters in the Bleach series

Are you claiming that Zeref is a soulless being?? A reminder that after you bleed this, you'll need to offer Energy Efficiency, Fear Manipulation, and resistance to Paralysis Index. .

NOPE.
Click to expand...

No, it should definitely be passive. Come have a discussion with me on discord?

Everything I said is true. If you watched even a gram of Fairy Tail, you know that Zeref's Anksheram dies the moment people come near him. If I wank, will I throw h3a? You're funny. Seriously, argue with me on discord. Zeref h3a is very logical. It has infinite power and since it has infinite output, it can use its infinite power. Here Zeref obtains infinite magic power from his fairy heart that exceeds infinite time and this power is also omnipotent, since magic = stats, he concludes infinity magic power = H3A Ap dura inf stamina. If you say that there is no release of this infinite magic power, if you have infinite magic power, you will always use this spell 100%, so there is no need for something like infinite output. If you have infinite magic power, it has infinite magic power output.
bcd.png
jfif.png
IMG_20231030_164846.jpg
IMG_6683-4.png
In Fairy Tail cosmology, if you have magic, you always use your magic at 100%. If you have infinite magic power, you always use infinite magic power, so you can also make infinite magic powerful attacks.

No, that character has a qualitative transcendence. As I said, we can discuss whether mashmyre should be low1c or not on discord? (Mashmyre)

I told you that Zeref was resistant to the spells you mentioned, but you insist on not understanding. Zeref is definitely better than Zaraki, it shows in things like hax and ap superiority
 
zeinx said:
No, it should definitely be passive. Come have a discussion with me on discord?

Everything I said is true. If you watched even a gram of Fairy Tail, you know that Zeref's Anksheram dies the moment people come near him. If I wank, will I throw h3a? You're funny. Seriously, argue with me on discord. Zeref h3a is very logical. It has infinite power and since it has infinite output, it can use its infinite power. Here Zeref obtains infinite magic power from his fairy heart that exceeds infinite time and this power is also omnipotent, since magic = stats, he concludes infinity magic power = H3A Ap dura inf stamina. If you say that there is no release of this infinite magic power, if you have infinite magic power, you will always use this spell 100%, so there is no need for something like infinite output. If you have infinite magic power, it has infinite magic power output.
bcd.png
jfif.png
IMG_20231030_164846.jpg
IMG_6683-4.png
In Fairy Tail cosmology, if you have magic, you always use your magic at 100%. If you have infinite magic power, you always use infinite magic power, so you can also make infinite magic powerful attacks.

No, that character has a qualitative transcendence. As I said, we can discuss whether mashmyre should be low1c or not on discord? (Mashmyre)

I told you that Zeref was resistant to the spells you mentioned, but you insist on not understanding. Zeref is definitely better than Zaraki, it shows in things like hax and ap superiority
Click to expand...
We are using the wiki rating not your rating.

Zeref is 5-A and CFYOW Kenpachi Zaraki is 3-C.
 
zeinx said:
No, it should definitely be passive. Come have a discussion with me on discord?

Everything I said is true. If you watched even a gram of Fairy Tail, you know that Zeref's Anksheram dies the moment people come near him. If I wank, will I throw h3a? You're funny. Seriously, argue with me on discord. Zeref h3a is very logical. It has infinite power and since it has infinite output, it can use its infinite power. Here Zeref obtains infinite magic power from his fairy heart that exceeds infinite time and this power is also omnipotent, since magic = stats, he concludes infinity magic power = H3A Ap dura inf stamina. If you say that there is no release of this infinite magic power, if you have infinite magic power, you will always use this spell 100%, so there is no need for something like infinite output. If you have infinite magic power, it has infinite magic power output.
bcd.png
jfif.png
IMG_20231030_164846.jpg
IMG_6683-4.png
In Fairy Tail cosmology, if you have magic, you always use your magic at 100%. If you have infinite magic power, you always use infinite magic power, so you can also make infinite magic powerful attacks.

No, that character has a qualitative transcendence. As I said, we can discuss whether mashmyre should be low1c or not on discord? (Mashmyre)

I told you that Zeref was resistant to the spells you mentioned, but you insist on not understanding. Zeref is definitely better than Zaraki, it shows in things like hax and ap superiority
Click to expand...
You have to make a content revision thread to upgrade zeref to high 3-A
We only argue based on whats on the profiles in vs threads
 
Spectra_Schiffer said:
Hax, which works automatically without being passive, will be activated later than the passive hax, and since Zaraki does not need to kill, these features do not matter.



I don't know how many times I've said this, but Death MP isn't a passive hax either, and Zeref will literally be crushed by Zaraki's passive haxes before it can be used.



You can't use the infinite power output argument anyway, the arguments for this were disproved in the CRT long ago.
Click to expand...

Excel616 said:
We use wiki rating, not your rating.Zeref is 5-A and CFYOW Kenpachi Zaraki is 3-C.
Click to expand...
I agree with what you said yes, but Zeref Neo gets 3a HAX on the wiki with Eclipse. You can see this if you look at the CRT.



Zeref gets this because of 400 years (in my opinion this should pass to zeref's ap because if you look at the items zeref uses it passes to neo eclipse)
 
Last edited:
zeinx said:
I agree with what you said yes, but Zeref Neo gets 3a HAX on the wiki with Eclipse. You can see this if you look at the CRT.



Zeref gets this because of 400 years (in my opinion this should pass to zeref's ap because if you look at the items zeref uses it passes to neo eclipse)
Click to expand...
5-A in AP. His range is Universal. There has been multiple CRT trying to upgrade him and Fairy Tail Characters but they were all debunked.
 
zeinx said:
No, it should definitely be passive. Come have a discussion with me on discord?

Everything I said is true. If you watched even a gram of Fairy Tail, you know that Zeref's Anksheram dies the moment people come near him. If I wank, will I throw h3a? You're funny. Seriously, argue with me on discord. Zeref h3a is very logical. It has infinite power and since it has infinite output, it can use its infinite power. Here Zeref obtains infinite magic power from his fairy heart that exceeds infinite time and this power is also omnipotent, since magic = stats, he concludes infinity magic power = H3A Ap dura inf stamina. If you say that there is no release of this infinite magic power, if you have infinite magic power, you will always use this spell 100%, so there is no need for something like infinite output. If you have infinite magic power, it has infinite magic power output.
bcd.png
jfif.png
IMG_20231030_164846.jpg
IMG_6683-4.png
In Fairy Tail cosmology, if you have magic, you always use your magic at 100%. If you have infinite magic power, you always use infinite magic power, so you can also make infinite magic powerful attacks.

No, that character has a qualitative transcendence. As I said, we can discuss whether mashmyre should be low1c or not on discord? (Mashmyre)

I told you that Zeref was resistant to the spells you mentioned, but you insist on not understanding. Zeref is definitely better than Zaraki, it shows in things like hax and ap superiority
Click to expand...
First of all, when you add a panel, make it imgur so that the CRT's image is not distorted. Secondly, we use vsb profiles. Personally, I get at least 3A, but in the vsb profiles and stated rules, zaraki destroys zeref.
 
Memonto_Mori said:
This is a comparison based on superiority, since the soul manipulation in Zaraki is layered and passive, it will automatically have the advantage against Zeref, so Zaraki wins.
Click to expand...

You can read above that I explained to Zeref that soul crush will not work.
 
zeinx said:
Zeref gets a 3-a hax with neo eclipse
Click to expand...
It is qualified as an outlier and since it does not pass through the door, it would be more logical to take it as "possibly" and the main thing here is not killing, who will put pressure faster, so zaraki wins.
 
Memonto_Mori said:
It is qualified as an outlier and since it does not pass through the door, it would be more logical to take it as "possibly" and the main thing here is not killing, who will put pressure faster, so zaraki wins.
Click to expand...
Zeref should be ahead thanks to things like passive absorption passive time rewind passive space and time manipulation in the vsb profile
 
Memonto_Mori said:
According to VSB statistics, Zeref does not gain soul resistance. If you think you have gained it, go and open CRT, it's that simple.
Click to expand...
Zeref already has soul manip resistance in his wiki profile, and Zeref has mid godly regeneration, so destroying Zeref's soul or doing anything else will not affect Zeref, and Zeref is also soulless. Logically, nothing spiritual can work on a soulless person. You cannot withstand Zeref's attacks from space between time, even if you have soul resistance, because it leaves you soulless.
 
Memonto_Mori said:
First of all, when you add a panel, make it imgur so that the CRT's image is not distorted. Secondly, we use vsb profiles. Personally, I get at least 3A, but in the vsb profiles and stated rules, zaraki destroys zeref.
Click to expand...

You can imgur it to make it easier when transferring to profiles, but no, there is no need for imgur to provide evidence in such cases, this is already a known thing and imgur is not used even in many content revisions, I do not have such an obligation.
 
zeinx said:
Zeref should be ahead thanks to things like passive absorption passive time rewind passive space and time manipulation in the vsb profile
Click to expand...
passive time rewind only heals zeref, passive field manipulation, space manipulation etc. are useless in this comparison, the deadliest thing among them is soul pressure.
 
zeinx said:
Zeref already has soul manip resistance in his wiki profile, and Zeref has mid godly regeneration, so destroying Zeref's soul or doing anything else will not affect Zeref, and Zeref is also soulless. Logically, nothing spiritual can work on a soulless person. You cannot withstand Zeref's attacks from space between time, even if you have soul resistance, because it leaves you soulless.
Click to expand...
This soul resistance is a layerless soul resistance. Zarakin's pressure is a layered pressure, so Zeref's soul resistance is useless, and it is unimportant whether he does this renewal or not, the result does not depend on killing.
 
zeinx said:
No, it should definitely be passive. Come have a discussion with me on discord?

Everything I said is true. If you watched even a gram of Fairy Tail, you know that Zeref's Anksheram dies the moment people come near him. If I wank, will I throw h3a? You're funny. Seriously, argue with me on discord. Zeref h3a is very logical. It has infinite power and since it has infinite output, it can use its infinite power. Here Zeref obtains infinite magic power from his fairy heart that exceeds infinite time and this power is also omnipotent, since magic = stats, he concludes infinity magic power = H3A Ap dura inf stamina. If you say that there is no release of this infinite magic power, if you have infinite magic power, you will always use this spell 100%, so there is no need for something like infinite output. If you have infinite magic power, it has infinite magic power output.
bcd.png
jfif.png
IMG_20231030_164846.jpg
IMG_6683-4.png
In Fairy Tail cosmology, if you have magic, you always use your magic at 100%. If you have infinite magic power, you always use infinite magic power, so you can also make infinite magic powerful attacks.

No, that character has a qualitative transcendence. As I said, we can discuss whether mashmyre should be low1c or not on discord? (Mashmyre)

I told you that Zeref was resistant to the spells you mentioned, but you insist on not understanding. Zeref is definitely better than Zaraki, it shows in things like hax and ap superiority
Click to expand...
Hm? Does this guy really believe that Infinite stamina = Infinite power output? Then the situation is worse. And you can't even h3a Zeref with wank because the things you mentioned are completely IRELEVANT. Also, please explain the meaning of the scan you sent. Zeref puts on a cool stance and you claim that this hax can be used at any time? Also, you should stop saying "Come to Discord" like the kids who are Tiktok users. It makes sense to continue the public debate, and I don't discuss Tiering much on platforms like Discord anymore anyway. Anyway, back to the topic, what do you think about Mashmyre getting beaten by Shinra even though he has 5b ap in the 3d plane? Anyway, looking at your arguments in general, since Infinite Stamina =/= Infinite power output, the encounter is based on Domination and not Killing, and your h3a scale is literally "shattered" here, I see a definite Zaraki victory in this fight unless you offer resistance to Zaraki's Wincons .
 
Memonto_Mori said:
passive time rewind only heals zeref, passive field manipulation, space manipulation etc. are useless in this comparison, the deadliest thing among them is soul pressure.
Click to expand...
This is what I've been talking about from the very beginning. This man stated what I have been implying all along.
 
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