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Zaraki VS Zeref

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both are OOC?

Zeref AOE death manip gg before Zaraki can touch him

Zeref has soul manip resistance so Zaraki can't kill him before Zeref does
 
Mickey1940 said:
both are OOC?

Zeref AOE death manip gg before Zaraki can touch him

Zeref has soul manip resistance so Zaraki can't kill him before Zeref does
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I remember Zaraki's soul manipulation is layered, is Zeref's resistance layered? Also, another important issue is Zaraki's passive haxes, as well as the passive death manipulation of hollows in Hollow physiology, and this does not affect most Shinigami, Zaraki is among them, so Zeref does not seem to have much of an advantage.
 
Mickey1940 said:
both are OOC?

Zeref AOE death manip gg before Zaraki can touch him

Zeref has soul manip resistance so Zaraki can't kill him before Zeref does
Click to expand...
There is no soul manipulation resistance in Zeref's profile. And Zeref will be affected by Passive Illusion Creation, Soul Manipulation, Paralysis Inducement and Fear Manipulation Also, the battle starts at a distance where both sides can deal damage to each other.
 
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Valeska24 said:
I remember Zaraki's soul manipulation is layered, is Zeref's resistance layered? Also, another important issue is Zaraki's passive haxes, as well as the passive death manipulation of hollows in Hollow physiology, and this does not affect most Shinigami, Zaraki is among them, so Zeref does not seem to have much of an advantage.
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Zeref > Larcade > Franmalth ig. It's not a very big chain, and Kenpachi should still 1 shot regardless due to being 3C

issue is, Zeref's Death Manip can kill immortals with Type 1,2,3,4 and Mid-Godly Regen, so Zaraki's not surviving that

Zeref's death manip is also thought based so Death Predation massive AOE gg
 
Spectra_Schiffer said:
There is no soul manipulation resistance in Zeref's profile. And Zeref will be affected by Passive Illusion Creation, Soul Manipulation, Paralysis Inducement and Fear Manipulation
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Soul Manipulation (Is able to resist Franmalth's Soul Absorption, and was unaffected by Larcade's Pleasure Magic, which effects the soul)

None of those abilities do shit against Death Predation, not to mention Zeref has all of those abilities (besides Illusion Creation) and has resistances to all of them

Even if you argue Zeref doesn't have resistances to his own abilities, Kenny doesn't have those abilities passively, those are through his Aura. Issue is, Zeref's aura straight up kills you and is equally thought based
 
Mickey1940 said:
Zeref > Larcade > Franmalth ig. Çok büyük bir zincir değil ve Kenpachi 3C olduğu için hala 1 atış yapmalı

sorun şu ki, Zeref'in Ölüm Manipi Tip 1,2,3,4 ve Mid-Godly Regen ile ölümsüzleri öldürebilir, bu yüzden Zaraki bundan kurtulamaz

Zeref'in ölüm manipülasyonu da düşünülmüş, bu yüzden Ölüm Predasyonu büyük AOE gg
Click to expand...

Mickey1940 said:
Soul Manipulation (Is able to resist Franmalth's Soul Absorption, and was unaffected by Larcade's Pleasure Magic, which effects the soul)

None of those abilities do shit against Death Predation, not to mention Zeref has all of those abilities (besides Illusion Creation) and has resistances to all of them
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Instead of leaving the link to the soul manipulation page you could have left evidence of what you mentioned. And Zaraki's Fear Manipulation and Paralysis Induction haxes come from physiologies. Also Zaraki's soul manipulation has greater chaining than the layer system you mentioned
 
Mickey1940 said:
Zeref > Larcade > Franmalth ig. It's not a very big chain, and Kenpachi should still 1 shot regardless due to being 3C

issue is, Zeref's Death Manip can kill immortals with Type 1,2,3,4 and Mid-Godly Regen, so Zaraki's not surviving that

Zeref's death manip is also thought based so Death Predation massive AOE gg
Click to expand...
Is this currently accepted on the wiki? If so, is this resistance big enough to deserve a layer? Or can I say that the soul power of all characters in Bleach is more and destructive than the other? Also, when I look at his profile, I cannot see that Zeref's Death Manipulation is passive? This still doesn't show that it will resist Zaraki's passives, and I would appreciate it if you could prove that the layered resistance is concrete.
 
Spectra_Schiffer said:
Instead of leaving the link to the soul manipulation page you could have left evidence of what you mentioned. And Zaraki's Fear Manipulation and Paralysis Induction haxes come from physiologies. Also Zaraki's soul manipulation has greater chaining than the layer system you mentioned
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I literally just copied that from Zeref's profile. Do you want manga scans or smthn?

and yes I know it comes from physiologies, and I know Kenpachi's chain is higher. The issue is that's not my main argument and those attributes are irrelevant
 
Valeska24 said:
Is this currently accepted on the wiki? If so, is this resistance big enough to deserve a layer? Or can I say that the soul power of all characters in Bleach is more and destructive than the other? Also, when I look at his profile, I cannot see that Zeref's Death Manipulation is passive? This still doesn't show that it will resist Zaraki's passives, and I would appreciate it if you could prove that the layered resistance is concrete.
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It should be big enough to deserve a layer, but Kenny should still have higher layers, and like I mentioned before, he can still 1 shot though AP alone

And Zeref's Death Manip is NOT passive. I never claimed that. The issue is, Zaraki doesn't have passives. His Illusion Creation, Para Inducement, and Fear Manipulation is dependent on Aura, which is an action that releases your energy

Issue is, Zeref has the same thing, and it's called Death Predation, where he just releases a massive omnidirectional wave of death. It's equally thought based compred to Kenny's Aura, but Zeref's straight up instakills you while Kenny's doesn't
 
Mickey1940 said:
I literally just copied that from Zeref's profile. Do you want manga scans or smthn?

and yes I know it comes from physiologies, and I know Kenpachi's chain is higher. The issue is that's not my main argument and those attributes are irrelevant
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Hmph, I think Zaraki is still superior in this regard. If you accept that Zaraki will be affected by soul manipulation, Zeref has no chance of winning.

Edit: Just because you have accepted that Zeref will be affected by soul pressure, I will not elaborate on the subject of Zeref's soul resistance any further.
 
Spectra_Schiffer said:
Hmph, I think Zaraki is still superior in this regard. If you accept that Zaraki will be affected by soul manipulation, Zeref has no chance of winning.

Edit: Just because you have accepted that Zeref will be affected by soul pressure, I will not elaborate on the subject of Zeref's soul resistance any further.
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You've made it very clear that you ignored literally everything I've said about Zeref

I've said multiple times that Zeref being affected by soul manipulation is irrelevant since Zeref kills Kenpachi faster
 
Mickey1940 said:
You've made it very clear that you ignored literally everything I've said about Zeref

I've said multiple times that Zeref being affected by soul manipulation is irrelevant since Zeref kills Kenpachi faster
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I'm talking about Zeref being affected since soul manipulation is a passive hax
 
Spectra_Schiffer said:
These haxes don't matter as Zeref will be affected by the gank from Passive haxes before activating Time Stop
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Passive time rewind negs most of this and mid godly can handle the soul crush, so not seeing much that these Passives can do here

Zeref would start outside his range as it's only dozens of meters outside of spatial cutting so zeref could get off time stop first
 
Mickey1940 said:
It should be big enough to deserve a layer, but Kenny should still have higher layers, and like I mentioned before, he can still 1 shot though AP alone

And Zeref's Death Manip is NOT passive. I never claimed that. The issue is, Zaraki doesn't have passives. His Illusion Creation, Para Inducement, and Fear Manipulation is dependent on Aura, which is an action that releases your energy

Issue is, Zeref has the same thing, and it's called Death Predation, where he just releases a massive omnidirectional wave of death. It's equally thought based compred to Kenny's Aura, but Zeref's straight up instakills you while Kenny's doesn't
Click to expand...
I defended Zeref's Death Manipulation not being passive because it was an advantage for him due to Zaraki's passives, I did not say that you claimed this, and also yes, reiatsu is released passively, it is not an action, this also confirms the passive e.e in Aizen's profile, since shinigamis always secrete reiatsu. Its features are also passive
 
Zackra1799 said:
Passive time rewind negs most of this and mid godly can handle the soul crush, so not seeing much that these Passives can do here

Zeref would start outside his range as it's only dozens of meters outside of spatial cutting so zeref could get off time stop first
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Dude, since Zeref will be affected by Spirit manipulation (And Fear mp, Paralysis incentive), he will not be able to use what you mentioned and the match will end with Zaraki's superiority.
 
LordGinSama said:
Zeref has Mid-Godly regeneration but I don't think it's combat applicable since iirc the time frame for him restoring his mind, body and soul was never stated.
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Zeref scales to Mavis who regenerated instantly after Cana erased her thought projection
 
Zackra1799 said:
Zeref scales to Mavis who regenerated instantly after Cana erased her thought projection
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Her thought Projection doesn't cover his biological body. Remember that's why you guys were given the possibly rating since it was never shown that they can regenerate from all 3 aspects instantly. They've shown to restore 2 aspects instantly.


Also looking back on it, I do believe the evidence for Mid-Godly doesn't make much sense nowadays.



I'll make a CRT later today possibly to remove it and replace it with something much more direct like High-Godly which quite frankly requires vastly less assumptions.
 
Spectra_Schiffer said:
Dude, since Zeref will be affected by Spirit manipulation (And Fear mp, Paralysis incentive), he will not be able to use what you mentioned and the match will end with Zaraki's superiority.
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can you tell us how Zaraki resisted the conceptual manipulation type 2 and 3 life and death manipulation and how Zaraki overcame immortality type 8 and middle godly regeneration?
 
Chardee.wl said:
can you tell us how Zaraki resisted the conceptual manipulation type 2 and 3 life and death manipulation and how Zaraki overcame immortality type 8 and middle godly regeneration?
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As I mentioned before, Zeref will be affected by Passive Spirit pressure, Paralysis induction, and fear manipulation. And he won't be able to use its features. Also, since the Victory condition is superiority, there is no need to surpass Zeref's immortality
 
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