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Don't talk about Giorno victims 
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Zaraki VS Zeref
- Thread starter Spectra_Schiffer
- Start date
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- Thread starter
- #42
frZaraki solos
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- #43
I agree with what you said for Zeref, we can discuss this issue for Zaraki in another thread, but who do you think will win in the current matchup?Don't talk about Giorno victims
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Can someone explain how Zaraki's passives can get past Zerefs own passive type 2 conceptual time rewind
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Jokes aside, if Giorno doesn't have soul crush resistance, Zaraki can easily defeat her.
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- Thread starter
- #46
Zeref's passive reversal of time only works for immortality.
As long as he possesses Time Magic from the Space Between Time, Zeref can passively rewind time to revive himself if his body is destroyed
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But if Giorno provides resistance, she can easily defeat Zaraki.
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- #48
Yes, we agree on this.
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Can you guys stop derailing the **** out of this thread?
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Lol what, that's not how the ability works at all, look at his profile, it's a complete temporal rewind not just Regeneration
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- Thread starter
- #51
As long as he possesses Time Magic from the Space Between Time, Zeref can passively rewind time to revive himself if his body is destroyed
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Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2. Can completely control the Space Between Time, which is stated to be a concept[3])
Space-Time Manipulation (Stated to possess complete control over space and time. Can completely revert all damage done to him and inanimate objects, as even after Natsu utterly vaporized his whole body and part of the Fairy Tail Guild[5], he was able to effortlessly rewind his body and the guild back to normal[5]. Neo Eclipse has the power to reset time back at least 400 years and allow Zeref to relive his life)
Restoring his body is just an application of his rewind, which is just an application of his passive space-time manipulation, which he has full control of.
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Zeref dies -> Revive -> Zeref dies -> Revive -> Zeref dies -> Revive -> Zeref dies -> Revive -> Zeref dies -> Revive -> Zeref dies -> Revive -> Zeref dies -> Revive -> Zeref dies -> Revive -> Zeref dies -> Revive -> Zeref dies -> Revive -> Zeref dies -> Revive -> Zeref dies -> Revive -> Zeref dies -> Revive -> Zeref dies -> Revive ->...
I dont think dying endlessly is a wincon
I dont think dying endlessly is a wincon
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- #54
My friend.. I already said that Wincon is the superiority in war, not killing.
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Mavis and Zeref can still use magic even while dead.
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- Thread starter
- #56
The achievements shown in this text are insufficient to prove that it is passive. Zerefin's ability to turn back time even after evaporating indicates his immortality, but the scan you mentioned was not opened.
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- #57
Zeref probably won't die
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Wouldn't go as far as to say that tbh, at least depending on how "dead" they truly are. I mean they can't really die to begin with lol
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I still don't understand what you are insisting on. There is already a resistance against the space-time manipulation that you advocate. Azashiro has already resistance due to getting rid of Itto Kaso, which opens holes in space time. I also agree with the reasons given by Spectra and Gin
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- #60
Dude, are you using translation? I haven't been able to understand most of what you just said.
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- #62
Yes, I don't think the other side will get anywhere in defense since Zaraki already has resistance, but we were discussing this issue because he did not present enough arguments to say that this right was passive.
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im talking about the level of dead we see in fairy tail, we see them cast magic even when they are killed before, as shown with the various spells mavis has cast despite being dead.
here, Zeref states he has complete control over space-time, even to the point he can erase 400 years' worth of time.
You need resistance to concept manip type 2 to resist Zeref's space time hax, that's why i put the first part there.
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Firstly, since Zeref probably won't die, it doesn't matter what haxes he can use after death, in fact he can't use them if he dies completely, but whatever.
Secondly, thank you for scanning, but as I stated in my article, he can only use this right after being killed without exceeding his immortality, and therefore it is passive.
I don't fully understand this part, doesn't Zeref only scale on the time specified as a concept in his own universe?
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I guess I'll start off by addressing Kenpachi's counters to Zeref's Time Manipulation; I don't believe Zaraki has anything in his arsenal to completely negate Zeref's Immortality and Regeneration, so I won't argue he can. I do however believe Kenpachi can continually incapacitate Zeref by using his Reiatsu, resulting in him winning the fight.
One of the main issues for Zaraki in this fight is Zeref's ability to manipulate time, specifically to stop time with Immobilization Magic; I, however, don't believe this would be that big of an issue for Kenpachi as he can nullify abilities with his Reiatsu, which in the context of Bleach, at his current spiritual strength, would extend to abilities like Ichibe's Conceptual Manipulation (which is Type 2) and Tessai's Jikanteishi, which is Time Stop. Given the massive disparity in power between the two, more than enough for this nullification to activate; I'd argue Kenpachi would be capable of negating this effect, alongside anything else Zeref has - including his Death Manipulation.
Outside of the aforementioned abilities, Zeref doesn't have much he uses in-character. He could potentially use Neo Eclipse to restart the universe and travel back in time 400 years ago but I'm not entirely sure if can activate it or not when he's constantly getting his physical body and soul/mind destroyed by Kenpachi's Reiatsu.
So all in all, I believe Kenpachi can continually incapacitate Zeref with his Reiatsu to result in a win. But if Zeref can activate Neo Eclipse while in this perpetual state of destruction and regeneration then I would lean towards Zeref winning because Kenpachi has no actual resistance or counters to Zeref traveling back in time and subsequently destroying the universe.
One of the main issues for Zaraki in this fight is Zeref's ability to manipulate time, specifically to stop time with Immobilization Magic; I, however, don't believe this would be that big of an issue for Kenpachi as he can nullify abilities with his Reiatsu, which in the context of Bleach, at his current spiritual strength, would extend to abilities like Ichibe's Conceptual Manipulation (which is Type 2) and Tessai's Jikanteishi, which is Time Stop. Given the massive disparity in power between the two, more than enough for this nullification to activate; I'd argue Kenpachi would be capable of negating this effect, alongside anything else Zeref has - including his Death Manipulation.
Outside of the aforementioned abilities, Zeref doesn't have much he uses in-character. He could potentially use Neo Eclipse to restart the universe and travel back in time 400 years ago but I'm not entirely sure if can activate it or not when he's constantly getting his physical body and soul/mind destroyed by Kenpachi's Reiatsu.
So all in all, I believe Kenpachi can continually incapacitate Zeref with his Reiatsu to result in a win. But if Zeref can activate Neo Eclipse while in this perpetual state of destruction and regeneration then I would lean towards Zeref winning because Kenpachi has no actual resistance or counters to Zeref traveling back in time and subsequently destroying the universe.
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I say this again, if you accept that Zeref was affected by Spirit pressure, you are probably accepting Zaraki's victory. At the same time, Zeref will definitely be neutralized with other Passive haxes. Just Fear Manipulation or Paralysis Induction will be enough for this.
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Following.
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Tbh I haven't really said anything that opposes Zeref outside of a future CRT which I'll probably work with Zackra.
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Serlock_Holmes
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Voting Zeref FRA
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you have opened the subject completely to win kenpachi, you ignore almost all the haxes of zeref, it is complete nonsense, I can discuss this issue on discord
Guacamolefletcher
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Crazy stray for a character that's not even tier 7.Don't talk about Giorno victims
Agree for Deceived's reasons
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Has Zaraki crushed something like Ichibe's concept manip before, if he hasen't are there Shinigami that have successfully defended from type 2 concept manip with Reiatsu alone? Also what is the range on his powernull as based off his profile his normal range is only dozens of meters, which is more than enough distance for Zeref to get Neo Eclipse off since SBA is 4km away. How Broad does his powernull apply to?
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From what I recall, never on screen but it's certainly possible. The hax in question doesn't necessarily matter, because if one has the larger amount of Reiatsu then the opponent, their abilities are negated due to the sheer difference in Reiatsu.
Here Zeref is many times weaker by a substantial amount so it's possible for the nullification aspect of Reiatsu to take effect.
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It's not unless you want to argue that Soul Crush GG works even though it's only been shown to work against characters with no resistance whatsoever, which Zeref does have resistance to
Even then, Zeref's wincon is also instant
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You're talking about Soul Crush which doesn't work due to Mid Godly + that only really works against characters with no resistance whatsoever, which isn't the case for Zeref
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You guys are assuming that Zeref dies instantly just by being in Kenny's vicinity, which isn't true. Meanwhile Zeref has the exact same thing which Kenny doesn't have a resistance to
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Literally none of this is true.
Shinigami have been reiatsu crushed before lol. Zeref's stats are vastly below the AP of Ken's reiatsu flares so he's getting dusted to atoms.
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Aizen pinning down Grimmjow, Yama effecting Nanao, etc.
That's not the argument. The argument is that Kenny can essentially continue to indefinitely turn Zeref into atoms just by him existing. It's a 5-A person going against a 3-C force that's passively flaring.
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