Yukari upgrade

[Andykhang]

^If you can't see shit in them and the material around them is attracted to it, yeah it's a black hole. You don't really need mass, just density for a black hole after all.


Edit: Or a rogue planet, or a massive cloud of dust, or dark matter... sorry. But you get the idea.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

If Yukari did just indeed make the constellations' names it would make sense. But Rinnosuke seemed far too shocked by that. Sure he was referring to the age of youkai but it already shows that he knows about how youkais can be influential. He seemed a bit more than fearful and dubious about the level of power of old youkais and how they are.

Sides, it's not as if Yukari can just use a star in a battle of spell cards. That may destroy the planet or most of Gensokyo for the very least. Or just spell cards. Either way if Suika can make pseudo black holes (since that still takes a lot of energy), well, it would make sense for them to be stronger. Though I remember reading that Yuugi is stronger than Suika but I could be wrong.

That said I say no to black hole scaling for everyone unless they have some sort of direct dialogue against Suika on that. And still highly unlikely even then that she's going all out unless it's a very likely feat. Example 2-C Cirno :^ )


Funny, I was gonna start this debate when I found it a few days ago. You snooze you lose huh

 

[DontTalk]

Suikas black hoels should't be assumed to be real, since they don't behave as real ones.

That said abou the spellcard calc thing: Yes and no. If a spellcard was calculated a certain strength and a character was hit by it then I would believe that is fine, BUT note that touhou is a lot about dodging. In other words you have to consider in which way it canonly happened. If we don't know if the spellcard was outside of character controlled combat used and hit I would believe it doesn't scale.

For one thing because we don't know about the canon scenario and because of game mechanic issues. I mean, Small Country level Cirno would probably be a bit too high.

 

[Andykhang]

^On the contrary though, i think Suika black hole actually have more similar point to a real black hole: A point of attraction. Just that Suika could also control what she want to attract, so essentially she could just bring a mountain-mass black hole ( Suika have been said to destroy mountain to dust) near herself and it would not attract anything else, or suck anything except herself.


Edit: Or to be more accurate, she could just make a concentrated dent in spacetime so that it would become a point with a mass effect of a mountain (since Gravity is a curvature of spacetime), and move it around.

 

[DontTalk]

Nahhh Suikas black holes don't behave like black holes at all, so even if one can explain that they don't behave like them I would not assume they are black holes. Basically they don't have the destructive properties, don't have particulary shown inescapeability etc. so the assumption is rather meaningless as we can give them no black hole properties since all properties would be explained to not be present in the ones she created.

 

[DontTalk]

This is btw. the third topic change in this thread. I believe it is likely better to close this thread here and discuss any matters which come up in threads made for their topic.

 

[Yamatohime]

For one thing because we don't know about the canon scenario and because of game mechanic issues. I mean, Small Country level Cirno would probably be a bit too high.

I do not remember Cirno dealing with Tenshi... Why she should be upgraded? She only fought with Sanae, Utsuho (there her ability has a very bad compatibility with Utsuho's), Marisa, Meiling and Alice (where battle is kind went crazy way)?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well she fought Sanae, who fought Suwako (The one who got the Country level stuff in the first place) But I think it would only really fit in fightning games, since in the Main games you dies one-shots at everything so...

And yeah it's getting kinda really off-topic.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Anyway, here it is. Final opinion from me.

Tier for Yukari Yakumo:

Unknow. At least 5-C, likely higher

Profile should also explain her Hax in depth, since people may not realize how impressive it is.

 

[Yamatohime]

Sanae is City level dura... Managable by City level AP.

Well, I probably create SWR powerscaling when get to home.

 

[DontTalk]

@Matthew Schroeder: Given that at least siginfies the lower cap of an indeterminate statistic anyways I feel like those formulations are pretty much equivalent.

About her hax: The current description is product of this thread and is in its nature more or less vague in application, because an agreement about which exactly can be done was hard to be met. So if you have any specific additions to the ability which aren't controversial that can be considered, but that would probably also be topic for anotehr thread.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

What about this, from a canon Touhou Manga:

http://********.one/chapter/Touhou-Bougetsushou---Silent-Sinner-in-Blue-018-Vo.html

Yukari's reasoning during the whole of Silent Sinner in Blue was a joke. She never intended to challenge the Lunarians, and all of the manga's plot was her Trolling and causing a distraction so Yuyuko could steal wine. It's likely she didn't fear the consequences of antagonizing the Lunarians.

Also:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Ipg1hRDE01E/TtSJENtaSBI/AAAAAAAAGN8/0-DVV0a5pi8/013.jpg?imgmax=3000

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Q_UqIpx8TNg/TtSJGzaaKOI/AAAAAAAAGOQ/lpTkqXG72N4/014.jpg?imgmax=3000

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-7RmGJ-z5L2s/TtSJJAVDuBI/AAAAAAAAGPI/T8EkOLLZRkg/015.jpg?imgmax=3000

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_6D_kf533Vs/TtSJMg6psmI/AAAAAAAAGPw/owowpv9rgBw/016.jpg?imgmax=3000

It is very clear that Yukari's "surrendering" isn't genuine, in fact, the way she laughs loudly after Toyohime declares her power makes it seems that Yukari finds it pathetic.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

In all honesty I believe Yukari isn't really from Gensokyo and could be justified as someone that could be on the level that the Sistes are close to her on that level. She tricked people before with 'defeats' and it's not as if she won't do it again. The way she acted was very suspicious too

Though is the aim of this to boost her to a higher level and support the constellation feat?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@COB

Boost her to a higher level.

 

[Promestein]

Seems much more like a "hahaha I can't believe you think I'm actually going to bother fighting" laugh and less "haha that's pathetic".

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Don't really see former. Though I agree on it being not "Haha that's pathetic"

She said she won't stand a chance in direct combat anyway.... Implications implications.

 

[Andykhang]

^Yeah, add up to how Yukari really like word-play and practical joke, she's pretty much could spin her word in anyway she want (like "direct combat"->"physical combat", and Yukari destroy her as mental combat. (or, judging by her power, "metaphysical combat"))

 

[Yamatohime]

Direct combat is direct combat. The main problem... When did Yukari participated in any direct combat? Aside Tenshi vs Yukari I can't remember anything close to direct battle involved...

 

[Andykhang]

^That fight is considered Danmaku too. If you don't count all the Spell Card fight she do as direct combat, you should count that one out.

Edit: You could said the first lunar war is one of her time of direct combat, but since we don't know her position in that...

 

[Yamatohime]

Killing intent make it very close to direct fight unlike her casual behavior during SC duels. So it is counted as one.

About Lunar War. Wasn't she conspirator and manipulator who didn't participated on the front lines?

 

[Andykhang]

^I don't know though... even with that, Spell Card, first and formost, is a "play".

 

[Yamatohime]

^I don't know though... even with that, Spell Card, first and formost, is a "play".

Nope. SC is foremost "give chances to weak"...

 

[Andykhang]

^If i remember correctly though, Spell Card rule are made because the Youkai have become stagnant and feel like losing their sense of purpose, so that they could scare the human and fight against the shrine maiden without bloodshed (almost,though).

 

[Yamatohime]

^If i remember correctly though, Spell Card rule are made because the Youkai have become stagnant and feel like losing their sense of purpose, so that they could scare the human and fight against the shrine maiden without bloodshed (almost,though).

Basicaly it's fairplay or skill over power. In most cases.

 

[Andykhang]

^So, for the youkai, Spell card is basically a glorified performance, a show that display their own personality without the need for killing.

 

[Yamatohime]

^So, for the youkai, Spell card is basically a glorified performance, a show that display their own personality without the need for killing.

Yeah, according to ZUN powerhouses can slaughter with 1/100 of the bullets they actualy uses if it they were serious.

 

[Andykhang]

So... no more talk about Yukari upgrade? I said we should just keep it like normal until there's additional information (like Zun new CD "Dr.Latency's Freak Report")

 

[Lina_Shields]

I suppose so. Looks like Yukari stays at Moon level due to lack of actual feats.

Feats from text aren't really solid enough to warrant a tiering most of the time anyways.

 

[Andykhang]

Somebody closed this thread then, unless if there're any objection...